math requirements thru diff eq? BC calc credit...

[pioneer22]

Hi,

As far as math requirements go, does anyone know what medical schools require math beyond calculus 2?
I have heard HST requires thru diff eq, do any other top schools do that? Does WashU require thru diff eq?

I have AP BC calc credit for Calc 1 and 2, and plan on taking stats before applying, but do I need to take Calc 3 or diff eq for any programs also? And do MD-PhD programs require more math?


Thanks

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is what the MSAR is for. No med school requires math through DiffEq. The vast majority of them require 1-2 semesters of calc and/or stats.

 

[pioneer22]

This is what the MSAR is for. No med school requires math through DiffEq. The vast majority of them require 1-2 semesters of calc and/or stats.

Thanks.
On the WashU link below, it says "

• Calculus through integral and differential equations**" ?

https://mdadmissions.wustl.edu/how-to-apply/requirements/

 

[Doggo]

Thanks.
On the WashU link below, it says "

• Calculus through integral and differential equations**" ?

https://mdadmissions.wustl.edu/how-to-apply/requirements/

I don't think they're actually referring to DiffEq the class. They probably just mean that you need to have taken a calculus where you learned about differential equations (which I'm pretty sure is covered in AP).

 

[efle]

Thanks.
On the WashU link below, it says "

• Calculus through integral and differential equations**" ?

https://mdadmissions.wustl.edu/how-to-apply/requirements/

They mean covering differentials/derivatives and integrals, as in Calc I and II. It's poorly worded there, they don't mean the upper level full semester class DiffEq.

 

[eteshoe]

Others have answered. The only way that you'd need additional math for MD/PhD is if the PhD will be in biophysics/bioinformatics/bioengineering and that's part of their entrance criteria.

 

[pioneer22]

They mean covering differentials/derivatives and integrals, as in Calc I and II. It's poorly worded there, they don't mean the upper level full semester class DiffEq.

Sounds good, thank you. I thought that was oddly worded, and I do remember covering these topics briefly in BC calc.

 

[Doggo]

I think Harvard and MIT have some kind of joint MD/Enginnering MA program where you need Multi

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Thanks.
On the WashU link below, it says "

• Calculus through integral and differential equations**" ?

https://mdadmissions.wustl.edu/how-to-apply/requirements/

Already answered, so I'm just agreeing with the above. Notice that the ** note says that one semester of calculus can be substituted with stats. And that you need a year of calc/stats. You can't do calc 1/2 and diffeq in two semesters in most schools.

 

[aldol16]

This is what the MSAR is for. No med school requires math through DiffEq. The vast majority of them require 1-2 semesters of calc and/or stats.

Harvard HST.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Harvard HST.

That's misleading, since HMS doesn't require those courses for the standard MD track. HST is specifically a biomedical research pathway. It also states that the requirement is comfortability with DiffEq and linear algebra. Coursework isn't the only way to show that, though probably the best.

 

[aldol16]

That's misleading, since HMS doesn't require those courses for the standard MD track. HST is specifically a biomedical research pathway. It also states that the requirement is comfortability with DiffEq and linear algebra. Coursework isn't the only way to show that, though probably the best.

There is no "standard" MD track. Pathways is very much not "standard" by the conventional sense of the term. One might say that Pathways is suited for people who want to get to the clinic very soon whereas HST is more suited to people who want to spend more time doing research. But both are standard MD degrees. Both Pathways and HST students get the exact same diploma, down to the letter.

Harvard will ask you to fill out a form prior to interviews that lists the requirements and you have to write down the courses you took that satisfy the requirements and when you took/will take the courses.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

There is no "standard" MD track. Pathways is very much not "standard" by the conventional sense of the term. Both Pathways and HST students get the exact same diploma, down to the letter.

Harvard will ask you to fill out a form prior to interviews that lists the requirements and you have to write down the courses you took that satisfy the requirements and when you took/will take the courses.

I must've misunderstood, because the HST website states that HST is a research track for students with a declared interest in biomedical research. Kind of makes sense that they'd want DiffEq and linear algebra for that. I inferred that they were not required for whatever their "non-research" track is. I put that in quotes because I assume they require some sort of research in all their tracks.

I have no interest in HMS, so forgive my ignorance.

 

[aldol16]

I must've misunderstood, because the HST website states that HST is a research track for students with a declared interest in biomedical research. Kind of makes sense that they'd want DiffEq and linear algebra for that. I inferred that they were not required for whatever their "non-research" track is. I put that in quotes because I assume they require some sort of research in all their tracks.

There's no real "research" and "non-research" tracks. Pathways MDs do plenty of research - one of the benefits of having only one year pre-clinical coursework is that you get a lot of extra time to pursue whatever you want, whether that's research or additional clinical time, sub-Is, etc. HST is definitely geared towards students who want to pursue biomedical research, but they get the same degree as Pathways students. The only difference is, they spend a lot of time in the pre-clinical phase learning about the mechanistic bases of physiological and disease processes in a quantitative manner. Once they get to the clinic, there's no difference in clinical training between a Pathways MD and a HST MD. Sure, HST students have designated "research" time - but Pathways students can use their time to do research as well.

The reason that differential equations and linear algebra are requirements for the HST track is because the HST track teaches the basic science of medicine in a quantitative manner that requires higher-level math understanding than how Pathways teaches it. That's also why HST requires calculus-based physics. So what I'm trying to say is, there's no easy distinction between Pathways and HST in terms of which one is the "standard" track - they are both tracks that lead to the exact same degree from HMS.

If I didn't already spend so much time in class getting my PhD, I would have applied to HST because of its didactic method. But at this point, I don't want to spend more time in a classroom than I have to so I never applied to that program. But I just knew the requirements.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

There's no real "research" and "non-research" tracks. Pathways MDs do plenty of research - one of the benefits of having only one year pre-clinical coursework is that you get a lot of extra time to pursue whatever you want, whether that's research or additional clinical time, sub-Is, etc. HST is definitely geared towards students who want to pursue biomedical research, but they get the same degree as Pathways students. The only difference is, they spend a lot of time in the pre-clinical phase learning about the mechanistic bases of physiological and disease processes in a quantitative manner. Once they get to the clinic, there's no difference in clinical training between a Pathways MD and a HST MD. Sure, HST students have designated "research" time - but Pathways students can use their time to do research as well.

The reason that differential equations and linear algebra are requirements for the HST track is because the HST track teaches the basic science of medicine in a quantitative manner that requires higher-level math understanding than how Pathways teaches it. That's also why HST requires calculus-based physics. So what I'm trying to say is, there's no easy distinction between Pathways and HST in terms of which one is the "standard" track - they are both tracks that lead to the exact same degree from HMS.

Makes sense. But if you can still matriculate without those courses, then they aren't really prereqs except for that specific track, same degree or not.

 

[aldol16]

Makes sense. But if you can still matriculate without those courses, then they aren't really prereqs except for that specific track, same degree or not.

Now your point turns on a subtlety. You said "no med school" requires those courses. HMS does require those courses for one of its two pathways. One cannot matriculate into that pathway unless one has satisfied the requirements (and there are people who apply only Pathways, only HST, and both HST and Pathways). So if one only applies to the HST program, then one cannot matriculate at HMS without those requirements completed.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Now your point turns on a subtlety. You said "no med school" requires those courses. HMS does require those courses for one of its two pathways. One cannot matriculate into that pathway unless one has satisfied the requirements (and there are people who apply only Pathways, only HST, and both HST and Pathways). So if one only applies to the HST program, then one cannot matriculate at HMS without those requirements completed.

Right. So maybe my statement should have read that no med school requires DiffEq except for certain tracks at specific med schools, such as HST.

 

[Lawpy]

@aldol16 @Matthew9Thirtyfive OP already said the following:

I have heard HST requires thru diff eq, do any other top schools do that? Does WashU require thru diff eq?

Do any other schools or programs require linear algebra and differential equations? I personally would think no but I don't know if it's true. Then again, I don't know why any school or program would bother for that matter unless they're similar to the Harvard HST program that focuses on a quantitative background in med school (and again, I can't think of any).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

@aldol16 @Matthew9Thirtyfive OP already said the following:



Do any other schools require linear algebra and differential equations? I personally would think no but I don't know if it's true. Then again, I don't know why any school would bother for that matter unless they're similar to the Harvard HST program that focuses on a quantitative background in med school (and again, I can't think of any).

Yeah I saw that, but the website lists it as a separate track, so as I said above, I don't really view that as a standard prereqs for HMS unless you want that track.

 

[aldol16]

Do any other schools or programs require linear algebra and differential equations? I personally would think no but I don't know if it's true. Then again, I don't know why any school or program would bother for that matter unless they're similar to the Harvard HST program that focuses on a quantitative background in med school (and again, I can't think of any).

Only other possible school is University of Washington. You can do one of three things: A) 2 semesters of physics B) 1 semester of physics + 1 semester of calculus or C) 1 semester of physics + 1 semester of linear algebra. Linear algebra wouldn't become a requirement unless the student chose not to take a semester of physics or calculus.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Only other possible school is University of Washington. You can do one of three things: A) 2 semesters of physics B) 1 semester of physics + 1 semester of calculus or C) 1 semester of physics + 1 semester of linear algebra. Linear algebra wouldn't become a requirement unless the student chose not to take a semester of physics or calculus.

Which is weird because I think most schools require calc 1 and 2 for linear algebra. Mine did, anyway. All 3 of them lol.

 

[aldol16]

Which is weird because I think most schools require calc 1 and 2 for linear algebra. Mine did, anyway. All 3 of them lol.

I don't believe mine did. Linear algebra is not particularly related to calculus anyway so I never understood why some schools require calculus as pre-reqs.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don't believe mine did. Linear algebra is not particularly related to calculus anyway so I never understood why some schools require calculus as pre-reqs.

I agree. But it's pretty common for some reason. No clue why.

 

[Lawpy]

I don't believe mine did. Linear algebra is not particularly related to calculus anyway so I never understood why some schools require calculus as pre-reqs.

I agree. But it's pretty common for some reason. No clue why.

It's probably something to do with vector spaces and determinants that's common in both calculus and linear algebra. I'd figure calculus (at least multivariate/vector) uses basic principles of vector algebra + vector calculus that are expanded more thoroughly in linear algebra, which is why some schools put calculus as a prereq for linear algebra.

Then again, my UG just made ordinary (single-variable) calculus a prereq for multivariate and linear algebra, and these were the prereqs for differential equations.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It's probably something to do with vector spaces and determinants that's common in both calculus and linear algebra. I'd figure calculus (at least multivariate/vector) uses basic principles of vector algebra + vector calculus that are expanded more thoroughly in linear algebra, which is why some schools put calculus as a prereq for linear algebra.

Then again, my UG just made ordinary (single-variable) calculus a prereq for multivariate and linear algebra, and these were the prereqs for differential equations.

Yeah, I can see having calc 1 as a requirement, and I think it actually should be. But I think linear algebra would actually help with calc 3.

 

[aldol16]

It's probably something to do with vector spaces and determinants that's common in both calculus and linear algebra. I'd figure calculus (at least multivariate/vector) uses basic principles of vector algebra + vector calculus that are expanded more thoroughly in linear algebra, which is why some schools put calculus as a prereq for linear algebra.

Then again, my UG just made ordinary (single-variable) calculus a prereq for multivariate and linear algebra, and these were the prereqs for differential equations.

There really isn't a reason for Calc I or Calc II to be required for linear algebra. Calc I and Calc II are definitely required for Calc III, and linear algebra would be useful in the context of Calc III, but that doesn't justify having Calc I and/or Calc II as pre-reqs for linear algebra. If anything, it should be Calc III or nothing.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

There really isn't a reason for Calc I or Calc II to be required for linear algebra. Calc I and Calc II are definitely required for Calc III, and linear algebra would be useful in the context of Calc III, but that doesn't justify having Calc I and/or Calc II as pre-reqs for linear algebra. If anything, it should be Calc III or nothing.

I can see why you'd want calc 1 before linear algebra. I actually just checked my transcript though and I took calc 1 and linear algebra at the same time.

 

[Lawpy]

There really isn't a reason for Calc I or Calc II to be required for linear algebra. Calc I and Calc II are definitely required for Calc III, and linear algebra would be useful in the context of Calc III, but that doesn't justify having Calc I and/or Calc II as pre-reqs for linear algebra. If anything, it should be Calc III or nothing.

I can see why you'd want calc 1 before linear algebra. I actually just checked my transcript though and I took calc 1 and linear algebra at the same time.

Maybe but some basic stuff on vectors and determinants are used in Calc I and Calc II regarding displacement/velocity/acceleration and related rates problems.

I think calculus is the intro level precursor for more difficult and upper level math courses, so it's understandable why calc is used as a prereq for linear algebra even though the connections aren't apparent.

 

[aldol16]

Maybe but some basic stuff on vectors and determinants are used in Calc I and Calc II regarding displacement/velocity/acceleration and related rates problems.

I think calculus is the intro level precursor for more difficult and upper level math courses, so it's understandable why calc is used as a prereq for linear algebra even though the connections aren't apparent.

The teaching of vectors isn't specific to Calc I. Vectors are taught in many pre-calculus classes as well as in physics and the other sciences. Having Calc I as a pre-requisite for linear algebra is unnecessarily prohibitive in the sense that if one needs the latter to finish one's degree but has yet to take any calculus, a whole semester has to be wasted when the two are not very much connected. Having calculus as as co-requisite may be useful in this circumstance instead of a pre-requisite.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Maybe but some basic stuff on vectors and determinants are used in Calc I and Calc II regarding displacement/velocity/acceleration and related rates problems.

I think calculus is the intro level precursor for more difficult and upper level math courses, so it's understandable why calc is used as a prereq for linear algebra even though the connections aren't apparent.

I think calc 1 is more of a weed out course. After calc 2, it kind of splits off where calculus is more useful for analysis and modeling and **** like that, while linear algebra is more useful for abstract algebra and the like.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The teaching of vectors isn't specific to Calc I. Vectors are taught in many pre-calculus classes as well as in physics and the other sciences. Having Calc I as a pre-requisite for linear algebra is unnecessarily prohibitive in the sense that if one needs the latter to finish one's degree but has yet to take any calculus, a whole semester has to be wasted when the two are not very much connected. Having calculus as as co-requisite may be useful in this circumstance instead of a pre-requisite.

What degree requires linear algebra and not at least calc 1?

 

[Lawpy]

The teaching of vectors isn't specific to Calc I. Vectors are taught in many pre-calculus classes as well as in physics and the other sciences. Having Calc I as a pre-requisite for linear algebra is unnecessarily prohibitive in the sense that if one needs the latter to finish one's degree but has yet to take any calculus, a whole semester has to be wasted when the two are not very much connected. Having calculus as as co-requisite may be useful in this circumstance instead of a pre-requisite.

What degree requires linear algebra and not at least calc 1?

I can't think of any.

I think calc 1 is more of a weed out course. After calc 2, it kind of splits off where calculus is more useful for analysis and modeling and **** like that, while linear algebra is more useful for abstract algebra and the like.

Yeah exactly. Although calculus and linear algebra do unite in vector calculus, numerical analysis, and real analysis. Maybe even differential geometry.

I learned most of my linear algebra and calculus in upper level physics though. Always had a hard time understanding math in pure, abstract form without any practical relevance.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I can't think of any.



Yeah exactly. Although calculus and linear algebra do unite in vector calculus, numerical analysis, and real analysis. Maybe even differential geometry.

I learned most of my linear algebra and calculus in upper level physics though. Always had a hard time understanding math in pure, abstract form without any practical relevance.

I think linear algebra can be of use in analysis, but calculus was way more prominent in those courses, where linear algebra was more prominent in abstract algebra, where calculus was basically absent.

I loved my linear algebra course, and it definitely helped in abstract algebra, which I also loved. So abstract (pardon the pun), but really interesting when you learn to apply it to concrete things.

But real analysis was definitely my favorite math course. So fascinating. Made me question med school and rethink grad school for a minute.

 

[aldol16]

What degree requires linear algebra and not at least calc 1?

You're missing the point. You're a second-semester senior. You have to take both Calc I and linear algebra to graduate with your degree. Because of some poor planning on your part, you've left both of these classes until now (perhaps you failed Calc I during your first semester of senior year). Now, you have to take an extra semester at the college because Calc I is a pre-requisite for linear algebra and not a co-requisite - and thus must be taken first in the sequence. Now, there is no good academic reason why this person shouldn't be able to take both Calc I and linear algebra in his or her final semester and graduate, since there is so little in linear algebra that depends on Calc I knowledge.

 

[Lawpy]

You're missing the point. You're a second-semester senior. You have to take both Calc I and linear algebra to graduate with your degree

Under what major/degree does this happen

 

[aldol16]

Under what major/degree does this happen

Almost any quantitative discipline? At the institution that granted my PhD, we required all chemistry majors to take linear algebra. Calc II was a pre-requisite for linear algebra. Moreover, one did not need Calc II or linear algebra to take upper-level chemistry courses. So if students planned poorly, they ended up in a time crunch come senior year when they have finished all required chemistry department courses but still need to take specific math and/or physics classes in order to graduate. If a student realizes that he/she needs Calc II and linear algebra to graduate and fails/withdraws from Calc II first semester senior year, then he/she will not graduate on time because linear algebra and Calc II must be taken in sequence as it currently stands.

Most schools will have advising deans that make sure this doesn't happen. But especially at larger state schools, students tend to fall through the cracks because there are simply so many of them that it's impossible for the deans to give everyone personalized attention. At those institutions, careful planning of courses becomes very very important.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You're missing the point. You're a second-semester senior. You have to take both Calc I and linear algebra to graduate with your degree. Because of some poor planning on your part, you've left both of these classes until now (perhaps you failed Calc I during your first semester of senior year). Now, you have to take an extra semester at the college because Calc I is a pre-requisite for linear algebra and not a co-requisite - and thus must be taken first in the sequence. Now, there is no good academic reason why this person shouldn't be able to take both Calc I and linear algebra in his or her final semester and graduate, since there is so little in linear algebra that depends on Calc I knowledge.

I'm not missing the point. I just don't think it's a realistic scenario for the vast majority of people. I can't think of a degree that only requires linear algebra. And if there was one that did for some weird reason, I doubt they'd have calc 2 as a prereq.

But a failure to properly plan your degree isn't a reason to change a curriculum.

 

[aldol16]

I'm not missing the point. I just don't think it's a realistic scenario for the vast majority of people. I can't think of a degree that only requires linear algebra. And if there was one that did for some weird reason, I doubt they'd have calc 2 as a prereq.

But a failure to properly plan your degree isn't a reason to change a curriculum.

Changing the pre-reqs for one course isn't the same as changing a curriculum. Not by a long shot. Especially when an understanding of calculus is not required to understand the material taught in the course.

 

[Lawpy]

Almost any quantitative discipline? At the institution that granted my PhD, we required all chemistry majors to take linear algebra. Calc II was a pre-requisite for linear algebra. Moreover, one did not need Calc II or linear algebra to take upper-level chemistry courses. So if students planned poorly, they ended up in a time crunch come senior year when they have finished all required chemistry department courses but still need to take specific math and/or physics classes in order to graduate. If a student realizes that he/she needs Calc II and linear algebra to graduate and fails/withdraws from Calc II first semester senior year, then he/she will not graduate on time because linear algebra and Calc II must be taken in sequence as it currently stands.

Most schools will have advising deans that make sure this doesn't happen. But especially at larger state schools, students tend to fall through the cracks because there are simply so many of them that it's impossible for the deans to give everyone personalized attention. At those institutions, careful planning of courses becomes very very important.

Why would someone majoring in a quantitative discipline postpone calculus and linear algebra to senior year? I realize it's university-specific since my UG required chem majors to take calculus and linear algebra before taking physical chem and advanced inorganic chem since the math involved was intense. But you would expect someone majoring in a math-heavy discipline to have knocked out calculus in freshman year.

i stated before that i could see why calculus is a prerequisite for linear algebra because calculus uses basic stuff on vectors and determinants that are more thoroughly expanded on in linear algebra. I think calculus is a best foundational introductory math course in undergrad that assesses students' quantitative aptitude before they take more advanced math classes.

 

[aldol16]

Why would someone majoring in a quantitative discipline postpone calculus and linear algebra to senior year? I realize it's university-specific since my UG required chem majors to take calculus and linear algebra before taking physical chem and advanced inorganic chem since the math involved was intense. But you would expect someone majoring in a math-heavy discipline to have knocked out calculus in freshman year.

Yes, one would expect, but everyone takes their own path through education and there's no standardized route that everyone must follow. Hence why many students fall through the cracks at large schools. The pre-reqs for the PChem course I taught was only Calc I and we expected the students to learn how to integrate a very little (which we taught in the course itself) because that was all that was required to understand the material. Quantum would require much more math but where I taught, quantum was not required.

i stated before that i could see why calculus is a prerequisite for linear algebra because calculus uses basic stuff on vectors and determinants that are more thoroughly expanded on in linear algebra. I think calculus is a best foundational introductory math course in undergrad that assesses students' quantitative aptitude before they take more advanced math classes.

I believe everyone should take calculus because it is fundamental to how the world functions but I don't think that it should be a pre-requisite for linear algebra. At the most, it could be a co-requisite. This is because from a purely academic standpoint, calculus is not required to understand linear algebra. Sure, vectors and determinants might be helpful to know but those are basic concepts that are covered even in pre-calculus. Just because I think everyone should take a class doesn't mean I should arbitrarily make it a pre-requisite for another class.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Changing the pre-reqs for one course isn't the same as changing a curriculum. Not by a long shot. Especially when an understanding of calculus is not required to understand the material taught in the course.

Not sure I agree with that. At least for calc 1, that is.

Edit:
I can see why you think it should be a corequisite, but I think it helps much more to have it before hand.

 

[aldol16]

Not sure I agree with that. At least for calc 1, that is.

Edit:
I can see why you think it should be a corequisite, but I think it helps much more to have it before hand.

Okay, so do you think that Calc I should be a pre-req because it is a "weeder" course like you said earlier, which implies that its function is simply to weed out people who can't do math, or because it actually gives students knowledge that is essential to do well in linear algebra? If the former, then that's not a valid reason to have it as a pre-req. Students can decide for themselves whether they can handle linear algebra, which requires a completely different way of thinking than calculus. If it's the latter, then that's a valid reason but I don't think that calculus conveys knowledge that is essential for linear algebra.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Okay, so do you think that Calc I should be a pre-req because it is a "weeder" course like you said earlier, which implies that its function is simply to weed out people who can't do math, or because it actually gives students knowledge that is essential to do well in linear algebra? If the former, then that's not a valid reason to have it as a pre-req. Students can decide for themselves whether they can handle linear algebra, which requires a completely different way of thinking than calculus. If it's the latter, then that's a valid reason but I don't think that calculus conveys knowledge that is essential for linear algebra.

No, I think it happens to be a weeder course. I think it should be a prereq for linear algebra because the concepts learned in a good calc course will make learning linear algebra much easier IMO. I don't think all of calculus is essential for linear algebra, and really if they had a basic linear algebra course and then a linear algebra 2 where the first was a corequisite of calc 1, I would think that'd be good enough. Possibly better.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

And also, I don't think a course needs to be essential to another to be a prereq. I think it just has to have components that are relied on or expanded on.

 

[aldol16]

No, I think it happens to be a weeder course. I think it should be a prereq for linear algebra because the concepts learned in a good calc course will make learning linear algebra much easier IMO. I don't think all of calculus is essential for linear algebra, and really if they had a basic linear algebra course and then a linear algebra 2 where the first was a corequisite of calc 1, I would think that'd be good enough. Possibly better.

And also, I don't think a course needs to be essential to another to be a prereq. I think it just has to have components that are relied on or expanded on.

What do you mean by "concepts"? Are you referring to calculus knowledge? Or are you referring to a specific way of thinking that is emphasized when thinking about calculus as opposed to other forms of math?

Are your "components" essential to do well in the course? Or is it extraneous knowledge that would help, but is not necessary to do well? If the former, then sure, that's what a pre-requisite is. But if the latter, then that goes against everything a pre-req is supposed to be. That's why we make certain classes "recommended" instead of "required." For example, in the PChem class I taught, linear algebra was "recommended" but not required.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What do you mean by "concepts"? Are you referring to calculus knowledge? Or are you referring to a specific way of thinking that is emphasized when thinking about calculus as opposed to other forms of math?

Are your "components" essential to do well in the course? Or is it extraneous knowledge that would help, but is not necessary to do well? If the former, then sure, that's what a pre-requisite is. But if the latter, then that goes against everything a pre-req is supposed to be. That's why we make certain classes "recommended" instead of "required." For example, in the PChem class I taught, linear algebra was "recommended" but not required.

You can continue to disagree all you want. I believe there are things that you learn in calculus, both in the sense of how to think mathematically and in a sense of actual topics (like vectors), that are important for linear algebra. I'm not going to tell someone they are wrong for trying to take them concurrently or even taking linear algebra alone, but I feel one should take calc first (and if I were designing the curriculum, that's how I'd make it).

 

[aldol16]

You can continue to disagree all you want. I believe there are things that you learn in calculus, both in the sense of how to think mathematically and in a sense of actual topics (like vectors), that are important for linear algebra. I'm not going to tell someone they are wrong for trying to take them concurrently or even taking linear algebra alone, but I feel one should take calc first (and if I were designing the curriculum, that's how I'd make it).

Thank you for your permission. Since you clarify that you believe there are actual topics learned in calculus that are important for linear algebra, then we have identified the root of our disagreement.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Thank you for your permission. Since you clarify that you believe there are actual topics learned in calculus that are important for linear algebra, then we have identified the root of our disagreement.

I wasn't giving you permission. I was simply letting you know that we're going to have to agree to disagree here. No big deal.

 

[wizzed101]

Well, you can absolutely skip cal 1 and cal 2 and still do well in linear algebra. Then again, monkeys can do well in linear algebra because if you don't have any calculus background you will just be doing pattern recognition, which is fine for whatever purposes you have in mind except for pursuing physics and math. Like you don't even need O.chem 1 to do well in O.chem 2!

This is the same for every course tbh. It's just the way tests are written and students. Even in o.chem, in retrospect I didn't understand a thing coz when I started learning MCAT everything became gibberish. But still, I got As simply by pattern recognition and the rumor that the classes were hard (motivation is important!). Now I know it's reputed to be hard coz of pre-meds

You two are just arguing about 2 different things: learning linear algebra vs doing well in a linear algebra class.