Maturity is a good thing

[look4wisdom]

While I frequently read many of the threads posted here I haven't ever posted many. Mostly because I don't have a lot of time. However, with the wave of recent posts I have been reading I felt compelled to post. There has been a glut of posts recently that have really confirmed a suspician that I have had for a while; that there is a segment of pre-med students have little or no idea what they are talking about and even less about their prospective career choice. First, I want to address the peeve with I have with individuals who want to be a physician, with the financial debt that must be accrued for most people, then want to complain that they wont make enough money. If thats how you feel you would be wise to consider alternative career paths, future patients will appreciate it. Even considering the lowest paying specialties and the loan amount you will be repaying your salary will still be well above the national average.
Secondly, if you are concerned about the perception of others by obtaining the DO degree, dont pursue it. Retake the MCAT, work on your GPA, or go to the Caribbean. Osteopathic schools quite clearly spell out what aspects of medicine they emphasize and if that doesn't fit with your goals you would be doing yourself a great diservice to pursue the DO degree. "To thine own self be true." Don't feign interest in osteopathy just because your current academic work would preclude you from attending an allopathic institution.
Thirdly, my reading of posts on this forum has really validated my decision to pursue an undergraduate degree in Anthropology, which I really love, and remain as far as possible from premed students as I can. I actually have come to dread the possibility, even certainty, that I will be sitting next to people in med school who reflect the attitudes of posts I have read here. I remain hopeful that the application process and admissions committees will be able to see through individuals whose posts have demonstrated a level of shallowness and insincerity I find disheartening.
Many of these problems I realize can be traced to the level of maturity the individual has attained. Others simply represent character flaws that our culture has allowed to flourish unchallenged, namely our overly materialistic attitudes. End of rant...

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[StrengthDoc]

Well said on all points and hopefully you are correct about the application process "weeding" out the worst offenders.

R.I.G.H.T.??

 

[scpod]

Many of these problems I realize can be traced to the level of maturity the individual has attained. Others simply represent character flaws that our culture has allowed to flourish unchallenged, namely our overly materialistic attitudes. End of rant...

Many of the things you say are correct, yet you chose to inform the world that you are better than those other premeds and don't even won't to be sitting next to them in medschool. The need to inform the world of your superiority could, in fact, be interpreted as a bit of immaturity itself. Or perhaps this need to inform the world that you are better than other premeds could come from "character flaws" of some kind as well.

I'll admit to getting a little pissed off now and then when I look at some of the posts on SDN. I tend to look at some of them as immature, disorganized, uninformed, and just plain stupid. Yet, I would attribute most of them to simple ignorance-- they haven't had the time to develop truly informed opinions. Premeds, by nature, are usually type A persons, who are used to success. They have lots of confidence and they express it quite often. That's not a character flaw-- that's simply the type of personality that ends up in medicine. It's a long, hard road, and it takes a lot of perserverance to complete it.

However, the real surprise is in store for these premeds when they get to medschool. Suddenly, 3/4 of those people who are used to breezing through requirements, getting As without studying, living at the top of the class and finding life easy in general---they wake up one day and realize that they are only C students in medschool (or even worse, they may be failing for the first time ever). Thta's when the relities of life set in for sure.

What happens after that, though, is that some of those premeds end up becoming wonderful med students and, eventually, wonderful doctors. The competitiveness is still there, but a lot of the "attitude" is gone. Those same premeds you tend to hate now will be some of the best, most loyal friends you'll ever meet. Don't get me wrong-- because some of them will always be dinguses. That's simply life. But...the world has a place for everybody, even surgeons

 

[amathew]

I remain hopeful that the application process and admissions committees will be able to see through individuals whose posts have demonstrated a level of shallowness and insincerity I find disheartening.

Nope they dont. Sadly thats the reality of it all. But also, it might be because they have not got a reality check yet, which they might at med school. I don't think avoiding such people would help you at all. In your future profession as a physician, you will come across but angels as well as a-holes, and you have no choice but to deal with all of them. Thinking that you're more mature doesn't help, if you're looking down at them for their immaturity.

 

[spicedmanna]

Thinking that you're more mature doesn't help, if you're looking down at them for their immaturity.

Exactly.

Consider this: which is worse, the action or your subsequent reaction? It's a trick question. What does 100% responsibility look like?

 

[Wackie]

Thinking that you're more mature doesn't help, if you're looking down at them for their immaturity.

The key words are "looking down on them". Everyone matures differently. You just have to realize some do it more quickly and then hope all will mature.

I'm an old fogey non-trad so I get to say this:

Kids will be kids.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I remain hopeful that the application process and admissions committees will be able to see through individuals whose posts have demonstrated a level of shallowness and insincerity I find disheartening.

Such as yourself, eh? Hypocrite.

 

[look4wisdom]

Such as yourself, eh? Hypocrite.

Murphy after having read many of your posts you have confirmed that your a tool. Truth hurts doesn't it?

 

[Sarikate]

Murphy after having read many of your posts you have confirmed that your a tool. Truth hurts doesn't it?

All right folks, simmer, simmer. Wait, what was this thread entitled again?

 

[look4wisdom]

To those who posted with some useful feedback. Believe me I can work and study along side anyone, that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or even like it. You don't have to like everything in life somethings you just have to do. For those who suggested that I am glossing over my own character flaws I'd have to say no, not at all. I am very aware of the areas in my life I need to work on and have as many flaws as anyone else. I fail daily to live up to the example Jesus gave the world with his life. Though I try to "love my neighbor" I sometimes find it difficult. I have in my life caused my share of pain to others which I accept responsibility for and freely admit. My statements were not directed to showcase my higher level of maturity, because I am just as immature as those I spoke of in life, just in different areas. Im just discouraged by the picture that SDN has painted but perhaps its skewed due to sample size.

 

[MossPoh]

The stuff you describe happens in nearly every field. I know people in my major that think they are going to be millionaire usability engineers without work. I've seen more than my share of business people with skewed views of the world. Hell, I have even seen your coveted anthropology be filled with arrogant or ignorant people who pursue stuff for the wrong reason...it happens in every area. People have a weird way of hanging with others of the same personality. Wherever you wind up, you'll most likely encounter a couple of people who fit your personality. Keep in mind that this is an internet forum, and it is well documented that people tend to be more brazen in such an environment. (I do mean documented too...research on this, as well as instant messaging) The degree of anonymity just makes it so gosh darn easy. I am one of the few that does not remain very anonymous...in fact nearly anyone here could find me if they really wanted. My picture is on my avatar.

There are good people on these forums, and there are bad people. You just have to know how to look. I once had a professor tell me a story about how he lived in a trailer park. He said that aside from the money, there were a few good, a few evil, and a lot inbetween just like everywhere else in the world. It is the same thing with medicine.

Also, don't knock dropkick. He is one of the old timers (relatively speaking) on this site, and is more than helpful if you ask an honest question that has not been asked ad nauseum. He is just the old man that yells at you to get off the lawn of the forums, and as such tends to be sarcastic towards certain types of questions.

 

[DragonWell]

To those who posted with some useful feedback. Believe me I can work and study along side anyone, that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or even like it. You don't have to like everything in life somethings you just have to do. For those who suggested that I am glossing over my own character flaws I'd have to say no, not at all. I am very aware of the areas in my life I need to work on and have as many flaws as anyone else. I fail daily to live up to the example Jesus gave the world with his life. Though I try to "love my neighbor" I sometimes find it difficult. I have in my life caused my share of pain to others which I accept responsibility for and freely admit. My statements were not directed to showcase my higher level of maturity, because I am just as immature as those I spoke of in life, just in different areas. Im just discouraged by the picture that SDN has painted but perhaps its skewed due to sample size.

This was the point I thought about making, but I was too lazy. SDN represents a vanishingly small % of all med students. You're bascially hearing the same people talk over and over again. If you make important decisions based on your perceptions from lurking on SDN, you are really only shortchanging yourself. Med school, at least the ones where I interviewed and matriculated, are far different environments than what you might imagine from reading SDN posts. The vast majority of people I have interacted with are extremely professional, mature and well adjusted. In other words, the complete opposite of the SDN regulars. J/K

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Murphy after having read many of your posts you have confirmed that your a tool. Truth hurts doesn't it?

I hope you enjoy your time at SDN, however brief it may be. Have a nice day.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

In other words, the complete opposite of the SDN regulars. J/K

I love you too DragonWell!

 

[Dr JPH]

look4wisdom...

Your "holier than thou" attitude is a far more discraceful contribution to SDN than any immature premed could possible add.

 

[look4wisdom]

Wow. Most of you who responded have confirmed my opinions. I don't recall ever claiming to be "holier than thou" in fact if you took the time to read my later post I pointed out that I have many faults which I will freely admit to possessing. Please don't take artistic license with my statements to try and support your opinions. I am not perfect, nonetheless my imperfection doesn't preclude me from experiencing angst with attitudes and views expressed on this forum. No more than yours has kept you from responding to mine. If you don't like what I said or it angered you, rather than project on me try some self reflection, it's a valuble tool in character development.

 

[spicedmanna]

Wow. Most of you who responded have confirmed my opinions.

No offense, but could it be true that there is an element of self-fulfulling prophesy here? Were you looking to have your opinions validated, consciously or unconsciously? This is the result that you created.

FWIW, we tend to find exactly what we are looking for.

 

[Dr JPH]

Wow. Most of you who responded have confirmed my opinions. I don't recall ever claiming to be "holier than thou" in fact if you took the time to read my later post I pointed out that I have many faults which I will freely admit to possessing. Please don't take artistic license with my statements to try and support your opinions. I am not perfect, nonetheless my imperfection doesn't preclude me from experiencing angst with attitudes and views expressed on this forum. No more than yours has kept you from responding to mine. If you don't like what I said or it angered you, rather than project on me try some self reflection, it's a valuble tool in character development.

You sound like Commander Riker

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

look4wisdom...

Your "holier than thou" attitude is a far more discraceful contribution to SDN than any immature premed could possible add.

I want to second that and add:

I don't see the need to stay away from all premeds. I have several friends who are premed/predental/prepharm that act nothing like some of the people on the pre-allo forum.

Premeds, like anyone else, should be considered on a case-by-case basis.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I see many generalizations by the OP but I do understand his point and sadly many people whom I've met who are in medical school or graduated medical school can stand to prove the OP's point. While most claim he's self-serving, I think he's voicing his opinion. And I think he needs to understand that yes SDN is only a portion of those pre-meds that are out there and it seems that SDN can bring out the worst in some people which is reflected by his negative opinion of the site. (Especially in the Pre-med forums!)

I completely agree with the title. I had many friends gripe about the immaturity shown with their interviewees and I'd have to agree that maturity is an issue that some people lack but you can't expect all 22 year old's to show poise and life experiences if they haven't had any experiences. It comes with time just as I'm sure many of the "older folks" on here reading can attest to.

 

[Crookshanks]

look4wisdom

You made some good points...I think it's just the fact that since you're typing your tone of voice doesn't come off the way you intended it too...and it sounds condescending...so just be more cautious when you type.

Immaturity is common in college students. The more maturity the better. We all mature differently...

Listening to people say that 200K is not enough money is somewhat annoying... and seeing people want to go to DO school just b/c their stats are low is annoying too...I understand.

Trying to stay away from premeds is your choice, you'll have to deal with these people in med school most likely...I hope you learn to deal with them by then.

 

[Dr JPH]

Percieved immaturity is not a good marker of how a person will conduct himself in the real world. You might be suprised to learn that the class clown is the best damn surgery resident you know, or the person who would throw paper airplanes from the back of the class is the most compassionate doctor to his patients.

You never know. Its easy to judge a person superficially without getting to know everything about them.

When dealing with a patient you need to dig deeper and not look at just the surface.

Offer the same insightful approach to your colleagues...consider it practice for when you become a doctor.

 

[Vix206]

Percieved immaturity is not a good marker of how a person will conduct himself in the real world. You might be suprised to learn that the class clown is the best damn surgery resident you know, or the person who would throw paper airplanes from the back of the class is the most compassionate doctor to his patients.

You never know. Its easy to judge a person superficially without getting to know everything about them.

When dealing with a patient you need to dig deeper and not look at just the surface.

Offer the same insightful approach to your colleagues...consider it practice for when you become a doctor.

totally agree. my boyfriend will make fun of people like he's back in 5th grade. yet, he is so brilliant and will make a fantastic physician.

 

[SunshineNYC]

While I frequently read many of the threads posted here I haven't ever posted many. Mostly because I don't have a lot of time. However, with the wave of recent posts I have been reading I felt compelled to post. There has been a glut of posts recently that have really confirmed a suspician that I have had for a while; that there is a segment of pre-med students have little or no idea what they are talking about and even less about their prospective career choice. First, I want to address the peeve with I have with individuals who want to be a physician, with the financial debt that must be accrued for most people, then want to complain that they wont make enough money. If thats how you feel you would be wise to consider alternative career paths, future patients will appreciate it. Even considering the lowest paying specialties and the loan amount you will be repaying your salary will still be well above the national average.
Secondly, if you are concerned about the perception of others by obtaining the DO degree, dont pursue it. Retake the MCAT, work on your GPA, or go to the Caribbean. Osteopathic schools quite clearly spell out what aspects of medicine they emphasize and if that doesn't fit with your goals you would be doing yourself a great diservice to pursue the DO degree. "To thine own self be true." Don't feign interest in osteopathy just because your current academic work would preclude you from attending an allopathic institution.
Thirdly, my reading of posts on this forum has really validated my decision to pursue an undergraduate degree in Anthropology, which I really love, and remain as far as possible from premed students as I can. I actually have come to dread the possibility, even certainty, that I will be sitting next to people in med school who reflect the attitudes of posts I have read here. I remain hopeful that the application process and admissions committees will be able to see through individuals whose posts have demonstrated a level of shallowness and insincerity I find disheartening.
Many of these problems I realize can be traced to the level of maturity the individual has attained. Others simply represent character flaws that our culture has allowed to flourish unchallenged, namely our overly materialistic attitudes. End of rant...

I feel your pain about the typical, type A, neurotic, almost narcissistic pre-med student... and that is why I didn't continue with pre-med in undergrad. However, upon graduating and seeing what physicians do daily, I realized I'd be a really good doctor and that my level-headedness was needed in the medical field and that a lot of down-to-earth people might stay away from medicine because of the cut-throat nature of the pre-med environment and students. So... if you like medicine and would want to help people in that way then just don't let those students get you down... though it's so hard to ignore them... but maybe major in anthropology and then go on and get a post-bac, or just take your pre-med required courses in bits in pieces while doing other interesting things. Anyway, I totally understand how you're feeling, but if you like medicine, just not the other people going into medicine, maybe you could be motivated by that and want to represent for the reasonable people out there and become a really good and caring doctor. People like that are needed, and so maybe you could find a way to fill that need. It's just a thought. Good luck with whatever you decide though.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

Percieved immaturity is not a good marker of how a person will conduct himself in the real world. You might be suprised to learn that the class clown is the best damn surgery resident you know, or the person who would throw paper airplanes from the back of the class is the most compassionate doctor to his patients.

You never know. Its easy to judge a person superficially without getting to know everything about them.

When dealing with a patient you need to dig deeper and not look at just the surface.

Offer the same insightful approach to your colleagues...consider it practice for when you become a doctor.

Wow, I actually agree with you on this one JP.

 

[Dr JPH]

Wow, I actually agree with you on this one JP.

Guess I need to change my opinion.