Maybe I should go in the caribbean?

[testingpig]

Could u give me tips? 3.3/37 got rejected everywhere this cycle. I just planned to do smp and reapply this year. I also planned to do a national guard thing so once I got into u.s. md program I could make some money. But my parents have completely annoyed me... And theyre the ones who suggested that I go to the caribbean. They say "m.d. is m.d. anywhere". I know thats not the case. But would I be able to get into an american EM program if I went to the caribbean and did extremely well on the step1? Without any connections? Also I don't even like caribbean. I guess it might be cool if you're a rich person on vacation there. But if I were a poor loser, I would prefer to be poor in Eastern Europe. So if Prague and Caribbean have similar "marginal" reputations, I would definitely like to hear more about those Prague or Polish schools. Though it is obviously more reasonable to reapply to american schools if going foreign makes it incredibly difficult to get a moderately competitive residency(EM).

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[mmmcdowe]

Could u give me tips? 3.3/37 got rejected everywhere this cycle. I just planned to do smp and reapply this year. I also planned to do a national guard thing so once I got into u.s. md program I could make some money. But my parents have completely annoyed me... And theyre the ones who suggested that I go to the caribbean. They say "m.d. is m.d. anywhere". I know thats not the case. But would I be able to get into an american EM program if I went to the caribbean and did extremely well on the step1? Without any connections? Also I don't even like caribbean. I guess it might be cool if you're a rich person on vacation there. But if I were a poor loser, I would prefer to be poor in Eastern Europe. So if Prague and Caribbean have similar "marginal" reputations, I would definitely like to hear more about those Prague or Polish schools. Though it is obviously more reasonable to reapply to american schools if going foreign makes it incredibly difficult to get a moderately competitive residency(EM).

What schools did you apply to? You must either have very poor ecs/interview skills or you applied to highly competitive schools only. Consider DO schools before Carribean for sure. And yes, going foreign does SEEM to hurt your chances to get into a competitive residency in most fields. This might just be because most of the qualified candidates go to American schools rather than abroad.

 

[shiftingmirage]

Like he said, where did you apply? You don't need the caribbean, just do a post bac and bring the GPA up and apply to the correct schools for your stats.

 

[Dr Simplicity]

Rejected 3.3/37!? What schools did you apply to and did you get any interviews?

 

[mmmcdowe]

I'd even go as far as say skip the post-bac and spend all of your time doing research, community service, or other amazing ECs. Your GPA is fine, and a post bac won't really raise it that much.

 

[NotAndrew]

Rejected 3.3/37!? What schools did you apply to and did you get any interviews?

Like he said, where did you apply? You don't need the caribbean, just do a post bac and bring the GPA up and apply to the correct schools for your stats.

What schools did you apply to? You must either have very poor ecs/interview skills or you applied to highly competitive schools only. Consider DO schools before Carribean for sure. And yes, going foreign does SEEM to hurt your chances to get into a competitive residency in most fields. This might just be because most of the qualified candidates go to American schools rather than abroad.

what schools did you apply to?

 

[ZeusonRoids]

Are you from Oregon State University or do you just like Sara Jean Underwood?...or both

 

[JaggerPlate]

The caribbean will actually give you better opportunities than European schools. Some states, like CA, have really weird practice rights and Caribbean schools set up their curriculum for practicing in the US. The other schools also don't teach to take the USMLE. Something is screwing you up. A 3.3/37 should get you in somewhere ... there's very little doubt. Did you just apply to a small amount of really good schools?? You could apply DO, but after your parents MD is an MD comment ... I'm guessing you wouldn't feel comfortable. EM is competitive from the Caribbean. I read a thread in the EM forums from the match that just happened a few days ago, where a Caribbean student was top of his class with a great USMLE and didn't match. I'd reapply Allo next year. Apply everywhere, etc.

EM link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=610932

Also keep in mind that you could change your mind about what you want to do while in med school.

 

[Bacchus]

Without seeing the whole story, I'd recommend raising your GPA. However, that shouldn't have completely tanked you this time around. Your choice of schools more than likely is what did it. If not, then improve the extracurriculars.

 

[Habeed]

I had a 3.4/36 and I was extremely concerned about getting rejected everywhere. I nearly did, only my state school saved me.

Fact is, med schools don't like to see a 3.3. I was rejected for interview at most schools I applied at, and I had a professionally vetted personal statement and letters of recommendation that were top notch. (One med school let me peek at the "scoring" for my letters, they gave me 9/10 points for the letters)

What should you do? Post-bacc in a program that has an affiliated medical school and some degree of linkage. EVMS, Rosalind Franklin, that kind of post-bacc.

To hedge your bets to make sure you get into medical school within 1 year, you could apply to Carribbean (I did) and apply to D.O. (I did)

 

[pianola]

If it were me, I'd take a post-bacc year.

Free advice.

 

[testingpig]

The caribbean will actually give you better opportunities than European schools. Some states, like CA, have really weird practice rights and Caribbean schools set up their curriculum for practicing in the US. The other schools also don't teach to take the USMLE. Something is screwing you up. A 3.3/37 should get you in somewhere ... there's very little doubt. Did you just apply to a small amount of really good schools?? You could apply DO, but after your parents MD is an MD comment ... I'm guessing you wouldn't feel comfortable. EM is competitive from the Caribbean. I read a thread in the EM forums from the match that just happened a few days ago, where a Caribbean student was top of his class with a great USMLE and didn't match. I'd reapply Allo next year. Apply everywhere, etc.

EM link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=610932

Also keep in mind that you could change your mind about what you want to do while in med school.

Thank you all for the advice and info. I did not apply to DO or Caribbean programs this year precisely because of this... EM is considered moderately competitive and I am sure that guy would have applied even to the hospitals in Detroit. So it seems really close to a death sentence... I made this thread because I feel I could start at some foreign med school somewhere next fall instead of reapplying.. I have already signed up for georgetown smp but am obviously not happy with my situation. I put a lot of work into my applications and now will have to do it all over.

I applied to 20 med schools, inlcluding the least selective schools- albany, nymc, rfu. I got only 1 interview at my state school, i messed up on the interview and got rejected. But since it was the only interview, odds were against me to begin with. There are quite a few people at smp programs with 35+ mcat, just read the postbac forum. Certainly, I should try to improve my essays this time. But I wish I didnt have to.

My parents blame me for not applying to DO schools. And they tell me "you can still go to the caribbean for the fall". If theyre willing to pay for it I guess I wouldnt mind spending 4years somewhere like in Prague. I know it's almost a death sentence, but it would be 4years in Prague. But I just found out they only have a 6yr program. I cannot spend another 6years off my parents' handouts.

 

[Bacchus]

DO NOT LEAVE THE COUNTRY. You have no reason to. Get your GPA up or apply to DO schools. There is something wrong with your application that you need to fix. Being honest, how are your LORs and your extracurriculars?

 

[halekulani]

3.3/37 is perfect for an SMP.

 

[Habeed]

. There is something wrong with your application that you need to fix.

Yes, his GPA. 3.3 is too low unless you are URM. An SMP is one way to fix that, and the other way is to just get lucky with a state school, since state schools are relatively less selective.

I had plenty of ECs, great everything else, but my GPA was also low, and I was declined for most interviews.

 

[mmmcdowe]

My mistake, I thought you wrote 3.7/37. You should definitely take classes to raise it.

 

[binko]

It also depends on what classes you took. A 3.3 with only basic sciences is different than a 3.3 with lots of advanced biochem classes.

Also, apply DO!

 

[Habeed]

Also, apply DO!

It's going to take him/her another year to get into a U.S. based medical school, regardless. (although he/she could go to St. George in the Carribbean this August, with no delay, as they accept applications all the way until June)

He or she might as well do an SMP with an affiliated medical school (like EVMS or Rosalind Franklin) that commonly accepts SMP students into the medical school in the upcoming class, and get accepted into allopathic.

He/she should toss a D.O. application into the heap, but it should be a safety plan, at that.

 

[testingpig]

Are you from Oregon State University or do you just like Sara Jean Underwood?...or both

I just like her.

 

[dhbighit]

Wait and apply again next year, but do EVERY THING YOU CAN to better your EC's.

With a 37 and a 3.3 the adcom probably thinks.... genius, could do very well in medical school, but not committed and doesn't work hard (no offense to you, I don't know you, I am just stating the stereotype). SO, show them you are committed by working hard this next year and then re-apply to middle tier schools. You will get in, I can pretty much guarantee (work on interviewing skills as well).

Seriously, I think this is what you should do, and throw in a couple DO schools as well, but I am certain you will get into a MD school.

 

[testingpig]

It's going to take him another year to get into a U.S. based medical school, regardless. (although he could go to St. George in the Carribbean this August, with no delay, as they accept applications all the way until June)

He might as well do an SMP with an affiliated medical school (like EVMS or Rosalind Franklin) that commonly accepts SMP students into the medical school in the upcoming class, and get accepted into allopathic.

He should toss a D.O. application into the heap, but it should be a safety plan, at that.

That's why my parents have been pushing me to do Caribbes. I could try Krakov,Poland without wasting another year(it's in Europe at least, though it's not like Prague or Geneve). But what if then I do not match. On the other hand I would be spending each of the next 3 summers in Europe. It has been my dream to ride my bicycle across the mediterranean coast. If I stay in USA, I'll be only able to do that when I'm a board certified doctor who can afford to take such a vacation.

To answer the other questions: Ive never seen my LORs and my EC's were mediocre or average. But since I did get 1 interview, the only real red flag was the gpa. I think I could improve my personal statement. But the whole process was so exhausting and I wish I didnt have to do it all over again.

 

[Bacchus]

Riding your bike along the Mediterranean is not a good reason to leave the country. One year is nothing. You have the basis to get into a US medical school. Don't take advantage or the "cheap" way out. The headaches of training internationally do not outweigh taking a year off, despite all the hassle from your parents.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Insane ... you think that a 37 would make up for a 3.3 any day. I mean if you just use something simply like the LizzyM score, you'd think that schools like nymc and rfu would interview you. Are you sure there wasn't anything else up with your application??? LOR, ECs, etc?? I know of someone who is interviewing this cycle (non URM, out of state) with a 3.1/32 at nymc. I know it's on the lower end, but I would honestly think that unless there is something else wrong, a 37 proves you can handle it. What was your major/UG school -ie ranked, public, private etc.

 

[BNSN]

Leaving the US to get a degree would be one of the worst mistakes of your life. Getting a Carribbean MD will be detrimental to your future career prospects. Getting a european MD will open up all sorts of hassles when you try to come back to the US to work.

With a 3.3 and 37 MCAT, you are fully capable of getting not only into a US school, but an MD-granting school as well. You should get in contact with professional consultants and/or trusted mentors at your undergrad right away.

At the very least, you should do research and be part of clinical activity during a year or do a SMP.

There is no reason to leave the US or go osteopathic (not that DO is bad, just that it isn't what you want). You can get an MD from the US with a 3.3/37.

 

[Habeed]

Indeed. I have a 3.4/36, which is extremely close, and I'm going to allopathic medical school this August. I'm a white male, so I doubt they cut me any breaks.

Anyways, last year I was in a similar dilemna. I wanted an M.D., and I did not want to waste more than 1 more year getting accepted. Thus, I applied to my state schools, and I did an SMP at Rosalind Franklin. In the SMP, I took medical school classes, under the understanding that if I scored mostly "As" in those classes, I would most likely be accepted into Rosalind Franlin's allopathic medical school. I'm still waiting to hear, but I am 95% sure they accepted me here.

I also got into my state school, but I did not know ahead of time I would get into my state school. Had I failed, it would have cost me yet another year. Thus, an SMP is extremely valuable for hedging your bets.

 

[dynezxice]

If you don't plan on practicing in the U.S. after med school, then by all means go to Europe...

 

[JeetKuneDo]

If you don't plan on practicing in the U.S. after med school, then by all means go to Europe...

Lol.

Check out the other threads by the OP:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7876164#post7876164

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=609437

 

[Habeed]

Hey, I agree entirely with the OP. Eastern European women ARE hot, and demographically there are a lot more hot ones relative to the total population pool. That means that it is much easier for a man to attract one.

I DO know someone who went to medical school in Poland, and he does have a hot Polish wife. Alas, he failed out of medical school there and is now selling cars at a Cadillac dealership while living with his parents... The Polish wife is not too happy about that.

 

[vin5cent0]

Pass on the Caribbean schools. Post bac, raise your GPA up a bit and reapply. You had to know going in a 3.3 wasn't going to look so hot.

 

[binko]

On second thought just go to Prague.

 

[NK1Positive]

Lol.

Check out the other threads by the OP:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7876164#post7876164

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=609437

Haha here is your answer!! Hilarious lol

 

[NotAndrew]

If your plan is to move back to Estonia right after residency than go to med school in Europe. Leave the limited spots in med school open to people who have an interest in practicing in America.

Also: What schools did you apply to?

On an unrelated note: why do you think army reservists are not deployed?

 

[Perrotfish]

On an unrelated note: why do you think army reservists are not deployed?

There's a reserve program designed to recruit medical students, the same way the HPSP program recruits for AD military. You're non-deployable in med school

 

[NotAndrew]

There's a reserve program designed to recruit medical students, the same way the HPSP program recruits for AD military. You're non-deployable in med school

I assume that after med school you are able to be deployed?

 

[Perrotfish]

I assume that after med school you are able to be deployed?

I'm not really sure if it's after med school or after intern year or after the full resdiency or what. I went the HPSP route and didn't look that much into the reserves. Ultimtely you'll be deployable, yes.

 

[NotAndrew]

I'm not really sure if it's after med school or after intern year or after the full resdiency or what. I went the HPSP route and didn't look that much into the reserves. Ultimtely you'll be deployable, yes.

America 1, Vodka loving Eastern European's 0

 

[tdittyx2x3]

Why are you so obsessed with going to eastern europe for your medical education?

Something isn't right about this thread.

 

[WashMe]

Could u give me tips? 3.3/37 got rejected everywhere this cycle. I just planned to do smp and reapply this year. I also planned to do a national guard thing so once I got into u.s. md program I could make some money. But my parents have completely annoyed me... And theyre the ones who suggested that I go to the caribbean. They say "m.d. is m.d. anywhere". I know thats not the case. But would I be able to get into an american EM program if I went to the caribbean and did extremely well on the step1? Without any connections? Also I don't even like caribbean. I guess it might be cool if you're a rich person on vacation there. But if I were a poor loser, I would prefer to be poor in Eastern Europe. So if Prague and Caribbean have similar "marginal" reputations, I would definitely like to hear more about those Prague or Polish schools. Though it is obviously more reasonable to reapply to american schools if going foreign makes it incredibly difficult to get a moderately competitive residency(EM).

I didn't get in anywhere this year with a 3.95/39. It's a tough process. I'm thinking about a couple caribbean schools too next cycle, just for good measure. I think I'm also going to apply to RCSI in Ireland. I think you'll be cool if you perform exceptionally well in medical school, regardless of where you go.

 

[Perrotfish]

I didn't get in anywhere this year with a 3.95/39. It's a tough process. I'm thinking about a couple caribbean schools too next cycle, just for good measure. I think I'm also going to apply to RCSI in Ireland. I think you'll be cool if you perform exceptionally well in medical school, regardless of where you go.

This would be a TERRIBLE decision. Take a deep breath, spend your year off traveling/getting a 1 year MPH/whatever, and apply again. Foreign schools get the leftovers of the US match, and there are fewer scraps every year. For example this year at the end of the scramble there were 6 unfilled gen surgery spots left nation wide. A top 4 carribbean school can still be an excellent way to redeem yourself if you did badly in undergrad, and some of their grads do still manage to get into top schools, but going to one just because you didn't have a broad app, had some terrible luck on top of that, and then got impatient is not a good idea. Life is long and a year off ain't a bad thing.

 

[LoyolaGrad05]

I didn't get in anywhere this year with a 3.95/39. It's a tough process. I'm thinking about a couple caribbean schools too next cycle, just for good measure. I think I'm also going to apply to RCSI in Ireland. I think you'll be cool if you perform exceptionally well in medical school, regardless of where you go.

Are you serious?? That makes me feal much better about not applying to USMD programs if those numbers cannot get you in..jeezz

Also, it seems the general feeling, which i was previously unaware of, is that getting your DO state side is a better option than an MD offshore in the Carib... ?? all Agree?

Good Luck
Thanks

 

[student1799]

Why are you so obsessed with going to eastern europe for your medical education?

Something isn't right about this thread.

If you read the other threads by the OP, you'll find that he's from there, and ultimately wants to go back.

BTW, those threads are enormously entertaining, especially the first one.

 

[Spoonbig21]

What is a SMP and how does it help get you into particular med schools? What med schools have them?

 

[sarahg]

If you read the other threads by the OP, you'll find that he's from there, and ultimately wants to go back.

BTW, those threads are enormously entertaining, especially the first one.

Yes, he wants a woman from his home country.

However, I've found a solution! http://www.eastern-europe-women.com/mail_order_brides.htm

"This program is designed for single men looking for mail order brides who are beautiful, significantly younger, educated, are unspoiled by feminism and whose culture is one of support & respect."

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I didn't get in anywhere this year with a 3.95/39. It's a tough process. I'm thinking about a couple caribbean schools too next cycle, just for good measure. I think I'm also going to apply to RCSI in Ireland. I think you'll be cool if you perform exceptionally well in medical school, regardless of where you go.

I agree- DON'T do this. Work on your interview skills in the upcoming year and get a research job at Ohio State in a lab for some cash. You'll be golden.

There has been an enormous increase in seats at both US allopathic and osteopathic schools-- so much so that the graduating class of 2012 will have almost perfect parity with the current number of residency slots. FMGs and IMGs are going to be squeezed like you can't believe, no matter their credentials.

 

[WashMe]

I agree- DON'T do this. Work on your interview skills in the upcoming year and get a research job at Ohio State in a lab for some cash. You'll be golden.

There has been an enormous increase in seats at both US allopathic and osteopathic schools-- so much so that the graduating class of 2012 will have almost perfect parity with the current number of residency slots. FMGs and IMGs are going to be squeezed like you can't believe, no matter their credentials.

I have plenty of research under my belt (compared to a lot of people)... A few labs, a couple 2nd author pubs, an independent research thesis, a national conference presentation, etc...

I don't know what the problem is exactly, but adcoms have told me it isn't interviews, rather something with my essays/PS.

As far as the international schools- some of them get into US residencies, why not me in the future? Worst case scenario is I eventually become a resident/physician abroad instead. That's better than not being a physician at all, which is what I'm facing because I'm not good enough for the US allopathic schools.

 

[virusgirl]

ONOY, don't you think you might be jumping the gun a bit on applying to non-US schools?

I know your situation has been discussed in multiple threads so I won't get into it, but I think you're an incredibly strong applicant. I do think your list of schools was a touch too ambitious, but still, you were extraordinarily unlucky this cycle. That doesn't mean that you need to jump on the Caribbean/European med school bandwagon just yet! Give it another year, apply more broadly, apply early if you didn't do that this cycle, and you should be in stellar shape.

 

[Law2Doc]

Insane ... you think that a 37 would make up for a 3.3 any day. I mean if you just use something simply like the LizzyM score, you'd think that schools like nymc and rfu would interview you....

There is no such sliding scale. A high MCAT does not make for a low GPA or vice versa. The Lizzy M score is simply a back of the envelope gaugue for letting you know how competitive you are numerically. No schools actually use it. It is a misuse of the calculation to assume you are in good shape with a high MCAT low GPA or vice versa. Schools are going to expect you to have solid numbers in both. I am sure the OP gets beat out by the 3.5/34 because schools like applicants who are solid in everything. With up to 10,000 applications to choose from, schools can afford to be very picky.

And numbers are only PART of the application, and I'm guessing not the most important part for this applicant. Weak or noncompelling essays, LORs, weak ECs, and other blemishes in your background can kill you even if the numbers were fine.

An SMP is probably the right move for this student. The caribbean or prague is not, and possibly could make EM a much longer shot. You have to realize that at this places attrition is very high, board passage rates are much lower, and folks getting exactly what they want in the match is not that frequent. And the odds of matching well are getting worse every year because the number of US students is increasing far faster than the number of residency slots. FMGs felt the beginnings of a crunch this year (read all the scramble posts in the residency boards -- it was a very difficult year for some.) This trend is going to continue.

 

[WashMe]

ONOY, don't you think you might be jumping the gun a bit on applying to non-US schools?

I know your situation has been discussed in multiple threads so I won't get into it, but I think you're an incredibly strong applicant. I do think your list of schools was a touch too ambitious, but still, you were extraordinarily unlucky this cycle. That doesn't mean that you need to jump on the Caribbean/European med school bandwagon just yet! Give it another year, apply more broadly, apply early if you didn't do that this cycle, and you should be in stellar shape.

Thanks for the advice/support. It's not like I'll be avoiding all the US schools, I think I may just add a few Caribbean/European (maybe ~4 schools). I'm going to try to hit the whole range of med schools, avoiding most OOS publics and top 20's. Broad broad broad. That includes abroad, at least for me. I'm currently thinking of applying to ~20 schools. I'd like to do more, but I won't have the money to get them in early.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I have plenty of research under my belt (compared to a lot of people)... A few labs, a couple 2nd author pubs, an independent research thesis, a national conference presentation, etc...

I don't know what the problem is exactly, but adcoms have told me it isn't interviews, rather something with my essays/PS.

As far as the international schools- some of them get into US residencies, why not me in the future? Worst case scenario is I eventually become a resident/physician abroad instead. That's better than not being a physician at all, which is what I'm facing because I'm not good enough for the US allopathic schools.

Friend, I don't know you from Adam, but all I'm saying is if you're in-state and are waitlisted by OSU and Cincinnati, then it was the interview that broke you.

You might be a perfectly wonderful, nice guy who gets very nervous, clams up and shuts down. You might be a sociopath. You might be nauseatingly arrogant. You might be far too self-deprecating and uncertain. You might be a Bengals fan. I have no idea what it is, and people are often unlikely to provide subjective feedback on something like interview skills-- they're much more likely to point to something objective.

However, since your personal statement and essays were mentioned, farm them out to a lot of people from different walks of life (a professor, a research mentor, your mom) [ha! I said your mom!] and see how you come across.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I have plenty of research under my belt (compared to a lot of people)... A few labs, a couple 2nd author pubs, an independent research thesis, a national conference presentation, etc...

I don't know what the problem is exactly, but adcoms have told me it isn't interviews, rather something with my essays/PS.

As far as the international schools- some of them get into US residencies, why not me in the future? Worst case scenario is I eventually become a resident/physician abroad instead. That's better than not being a physician at all, which is what I'm facing because I'm not good enough for the US allopathic schools.

Danger Will Robinson! The worst case scenario is that you have a worthless degree, $250,000 in debt and no job. Hard times are a-coming for offshore students-- certainly the class of 2013 will be feeling the crunch.

As an aside, without permanent residency abroad you most likely will not be permitted to train there. Americans going to Irish or Eastern European med schools without an EU passport are booted back to the Red, White and Blue pretty quickly.