Maybe we should go to Med school?

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Zrchrn said:
I'll tell you what, a lot of pharmacy students seem to be a lot more self-deprecating and negative esp. in regards to their profession. If you aren't proud of the important role you play in health care and if you don't respect the career how can anyone else respect it or come to trust your services? This isn't about bragging, it's about self respect and it is even partially an ethical issue. I mean if you take your job as a joke, and not really worthwhile, something that can be done by stupid people etc. Then your not going to be doing a very good job. If you respect the field, then you will be putting your all into it.
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Honest question - how much of this do you think is due to most pharmacists still being Bpharms? Of the bpharms that I know, most of them still seem a little surprised that their profession has taken off so much in terms of both salary and new career options, because it wasn't a "hot" profession when they majored in it ~25 years ago in college, it was more of a conservative "druggist" position (from what I gather at least - please tell me if not accurate but that is the vibe I pick up).

I am ***not*** saying they don't respect their field, just that they seem a little --- suprised? uncomfortable? irritated? --- at the hotter profile it's gotten over the past few years. So maybe they are downplaying it as a result? Just a thought.
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Jetninjin said:
Frankly, most people I have met in the pharmacy profession - students and practitioners have a very insular attitude, that might be what you are seeing at the pharmacy school level. I have tried to start many conversations I had assumed would be no-brainers and been met with blank stares. I have asked a Walgreens pharmacist about what she thought of POWER and was asked "what's that?" I have been asked by a hospital pharmacist "what would you even DO with a pharmd/mph?" I asked a retail chain pharmacist about delayed Medicaid reimbursements due to red tape and was greeted by "huh?"

And even on here, I started a thread on this very forum about the recent AWP lawsuit that has the potential to screw over retail even further - I posted expecting some actual passion on the issue since most pharmacists work in retail and was greeted by one response. ONE lol ... how sad is that? This isn't even my industry yet, how come I can muster more passion on the issue than the pharmacists this could directly screw over?!

Sure there are some pharmacists who are involved in their profession, but I have talked to too many students and practitioners to believe that the cases I have mentioned are in the minority. It's sad, and frustrating.
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It's one of those things that is essentially TMI for any given person. There's so much going on in the day-to-day that you lose the forest in the trees. If you're a retail pharmacist, you punch in, do your work, and leave. POWER, AWP, and medicaid receipts are so far off your radar and do nothing to help you in your day to day functions that it really does you no good to look. You're almost better off keeping up with mundane stuff like formulary changes, generic availability, etc...

I remember getting tons of email regarding changes in this/that regulation that, if I just read everything, I'd have been behind in my work. I had to sort and find what was relevant. Granted, AWP/Power/medicaid ARE very much relevant....when you're in the retail trenches, you'll need to triage.

Hate to say it, but you lose a lot of your ideals when you leave school and work in the real world for a while. I feel some of these things are inevitable...power being one of them. Why bother working up a sweat over it, then? At some point, you leave broad, systemic changes to someone else and find a way to best position yourself.
 
confettiflyer said:
At some point, you leave broad, systemic changes to someone else and find a way to best position yourself.
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Heh true, that's why I want nothing to do with either retail *or* clinical pharmacy. I have a background in business and want to go in that direction. With everyone's margins decreasing, I don't trust legislators to not use the fact that pharmacy techs are now licensed as a great excuse to reduce the required pharmacist:technician ratio. (Not saying I predict it, but I wouldn't be shocked if they were successfully lobbied to do it -- and I am not gonna shell out a huge tuition fee on the assumption that they would "do the responsible thing" and leave it or increase it). Business is too powerful ... which is why I wanna be in the business side.

If people keep that go-with-the-flow attitude, then they will continue to be considered auxiliary healthcare professionals, and their power (heh, punny) will be whittled away to the extent that the successful lobbyists (doctors, PBMs, big pharma, heck even nursing) see fit.
 
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Jetninjin said:
Frankly, most people I have met in the pharmacy profession - students and practitioners have a very insular attitude, that might be what you are seeing at the pharmacy school level. I have tried to start many conversations I had assumed would be no-brainers and been met with blank stares. I have asked a Walgreens pharmacist about what she thought of POWER and was asked "what's that?" I have been asked by a hospital pharmacist "what would you even DO with a pharmd/mph?" I asked a retail chain pharmacist about delayed Medicaid reimbursements due to red tape and was greeted by "huh?"

And even on here, I started a thread on this very forum about the recent AWP lawsuit that has the potential to screw over retail even further - I posted expecting some actual passion on the issue since most pharmacists work in retail and was greeted by one response. ONE lol ... how sad is that? This isn't even my industry yet, how come I can muster more passion on the issue than the pharmacists this could directly screw over?!
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Hehe, maybe you should think about pursuing a different profession if you're already exasperated by it before starting it. I think all professions are like that for the majority of people in it. Only a few vocal ones (sometimes vocal for the wrong reasons too).

Regarding the AWP lawsuit, the whole Medicaid reimbursement system is dysfunctional. Doctors already lose money on every Medicaid patient they see, so I'm not surprised to see pharmacists being forced into selling below cost on their Medicaid patients either.
 
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confettiflyer said:
well...what'dya expect? 90% of my fellow pharm students have never really "worked" a day in their lives. working PT as a pharm clerk/tech for admissions, or at the college bookstore, doesn't count
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ExACTLY!!!!!!!!
 
Zrchrn said:
Smarter? How do you measure that? I think on average medical students are harder working. Smarter? Really? What do you base this on? I would hope that Pharmacists would on average at least be on par with physicians.

I'll tell you what, a lot of pharmacy students seem to be a lot more self-deprecating and negative esp. in regards to their profession. If you aren't proud of the important role you play in health care and if you don't respect the career how can anyone else respect it or come to trust your services? This isn't about bragging, it's about self respect and it is even partially an ethical issue. I mean if you take your job as a joke, and not really worthwhile, something that can be done by stupid people etc. Then your not going to be doing a very good job. If you respect the field, then you will be putting your all into it.

Maybe a job shortage would be good for pharmacists. It'll make the *****s who don't respect the field go and find something else to do. So that we get dedicated people working. Maybe then we will have less instances of pharmacists-related mistakes.
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yeah, smarter. you measure it with tests. smart, as in, analytical smarts. not culturally smart bull****. it's not about belittling the pharmacy. it's about stating the obvious. on average, med students are also smarter than dental students, nurses, law students (since half the schools let in anyone with a pulse). by the way, we're talking about MD,...not DO/Caribb. i think it's great that you are promoting self-respect, etc. but i don't prescribe to false equivalencies. we weren't all cut out to do the same things.
 
SHC1984 said:
The reason why I say Derm and Surgeons are smarter is because it is something that I cannot do.:laugh: If I wanted to get into medical school I can. And I can definetly pass classes in med school too b/c I did that for a semester at Columbia (w/o studying on weekends). So getting into med school and getting by is not very hard. However in order to get into a Derm residency or surgery, you have to be #1 or #2 in your class. That is something that I cannot do mainly b/c of lack of motivation. Money/good lifestyle can only motivate me so much...plus I was in NYC...I prefer going out on the weekends than studying.
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you were in dental school. med school is a diff beast. i don't care much for all the politically correct speak about how education is just different, and some things are hard for some people, but not for others.

maybe quantum physics is really easy for Jim but he struggles with sociology. and jill is a genius in sociology but inept at quantum physics. one isn't harder than the other...they're just different. ya, right.
 
ffpickle said:
yeah, smarter. you measure it with tests. smart, as in, analytical smarts. not culturally smart bull****. it's not about belittling the pharmacy. it's about stating the obvious. on average, med students are also smarter than dental students, nurses, law students (since half the schools let in anyone with a pulse). by the way, we're talking about MD,...not DO/Caribb. i think it's great that you are promoting self-respect, etc. but i don't prescribe to false equivalencies. we weren't all cut out to do the same things.
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What do you base that on? Do you have any studies to back that up. Don't tell me "it's obvious" as that's is not scientific. That the Earth was flat was "obvious" to millions of people at one time and guess what...it's not true.

I'm not denying that Med. school people are or tend to be "smart". However it is possible that a lot of them aren't any smarter than anyone else, they just have good work ethics. Your also not taking into account people who prefer the lifestyle of dentists or pharmacists or lawyers. Not to mention that a lot of people just don't want to deal with bodily fluids. Do you get my point? Your making generalized statements that fail to take a lot of things into account.
 
ffpickle said:
you were in dental school. med school is a diff beast. i don't care much for all the politically correct speak about how education is just different, and some things are hard for some people, but not for others.

maybe quantum physics is really easy for Jim but he struggles with sociology. and jill is a genius in sociology but inept at quantum physics. one isn't harder than the other...they're just different. ya, right.
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I was in med school b/c Columbia only has a medical school and they accept dental students and put them in med school with all their med students. I guess they were too lazy to come up with a dental school. Harvard does the same thing. They accept 35 dental students and put them into their medical school.

I still do not think just getting into med school (MD) and getting by makes them smarter. I think it takes more of getting into med school and getting into the top 5% of the class and landing a Derm residency. Now thats "smarter". I can get into med school and get a 3.0 GPA and graduate/do primary care, but getting a 4.0 and landing a Derm residency is a totally different story.

Overall I know what you are trying to say and I agree with you. I have nothing against med students and I have no problem admitting that Derm and Surgeons are smarter than me. LOL...Its those pre medders that have NOT even recieved an acceptance yet or a med student barely getting by or a DO, but still thinks they are smarter than everyone that gets on my nerves.
 
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ffpickle said:
yeah, smarter. you measure it with tests. smart, as in, analytical smarts. not culturally smart bull****. it's not about belittling the pharmacy. it's about stating the obvious. on average, med students are also smarter than dental students, nurses, law students (since half the schools let in anyone with a pulse). by the way, we're talking about MD,...not DO/Caribb. i think it's great that you are promoting self-respect, etc. but i don't prescribe to false equivalencies. we weren't all cut out to do the same things.
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I agree with this, but again only if you are talking about the top students in the class for Med and not just someone that has a ~3.0 in med school. Especially the low tier med schools that accept people with 30-32 MCAT and 3.6 GPA. Those stats are not very hard to get in my opinion. I am sure most people can get those stats, I know I can.
 
SHC1984 said:
I agree with this, but again only if you are talking about the top students in the class for Med and not just someone that has a ~3.0 in med school. Especially the low tier med schools that accept people with 30-32 MCAT and 3.6 GPA. Those stats are not very hard to get in my opinion. I am sure most people can get those stats, I know I can.
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I'd put some of the top tier pharmacy students against the top tier med students any day of the week. One girl in my class never got a B. Ever. Got into school in 2 years with a 4.0 - 99 PCAT, graduated rx school with a 4.0. She wanted to be a pharmacist. Medicine wasn't even on her radar. And then there's me, obviously. Lmao...
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
I'd put some of the top tier pharmacy students against the top tier med students any day of the week. One girl in my class never got a B. Ever. Got into school in 2 years with a 4.0 - 99 PCAT, graduated rx school with a 4.0. She wanted to be a pharmacist. Medicine wasn't even on her radar. And then there's me, obviously. Lmao...
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Yeah, she could easily get into med school and be a general family physician without a doubt! Hell, I think most people can get into med school and once you get in...its VERY HARD to fail out...so you are pretty much guarntee a spot as a general physician. So I don't see why MD are so cocky about getting into med school...

She would proberly get into Derm or surgery as well...I am just really intimated by those residencies...same with Orthodontics...another hard/nearly impossible residency to get into. :rolleyes:

YOU could have graduated with a 4.0 too if you QUIT YOUR JOB while you were in school and took out an extra loan! :p
 
SHC1984 said:
I was in med school b/c Columbia only has a medical school and they accept dental students and put them in med school with all their med students. I guess they were too lazy to come up with a dental school. Harvard does the same thing. They accept 35 dental students and put them into their medical school.

I still do not think just getting into med school (MD) and getting by makes them smarter. I think it takes more of getting into med school and getting into the top 5% of the class and landing a Derm residency. Now thats "smarter". I can get into med school and get a 3.0 GPA and graduate/do primary care, but getting a 4.0 and landing a Derm residency is a totally different story.
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Getting into Columbia for medical school (or dental school) is not easy and requires much more than just doing well in college. The top 5% of Columbia's med school class do not go into a Derm residency, although Derm does get top students. At that level, believe it or not, people pick what they are truly interested in instead. It's my impression that at mid-tiered medical schools, you see more top students aiming for Derm and Rads.

The problem with pharmacy is that very few top tier national research universities have a pharmacy school. There is no Columbia pharmacy; the only pharmacy school near NYC is Long Island University. This makes it much harder to characterize students from the top 20 pharmacy schools versus students from the top 20 medical schools.
 
womp said:
Getting into Columbia for medical school (or dental school) is not easy and requires much more than just doing well in college. The top 5% of Columbia's med school class do not go into a Derm residency, although Derm does get top students. At that level, believe it or not, people pick what they are truly interested in instead. It's my impression that at mid-tiered medical schools, you see more top students aiming for Derm and Rads.

The problem with pharmacy is that very few top tier national research universities have a pharmacy school. There is no Columbia pharmacy; the only pharmacy school near NYC is Long Island University. This makes it much harder to characterize students from the top 20 pharmacy schools versus students from the top 20 medical schools.
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UNC is no slouch in terms of research. They have a pharmacy school. Doesn't mean pharmacy gets any of respect
 
womp said:
Getting into Columbia for medical school (or dental school) is not easy and requires much more than just doing well in college. The top 5% of Columbia's med school class do not go into a Derm residency, although Derm does get top students. At that level, believe it or not, people pick what they are truly interested in instead. It's my impression that at mid-tiered medical schools, you see more top students aiming for Derm and Rads.

The problem with pharmacy is that very few top tier national research universities have a pharmacy school. There is no Columbia pharmacy; the only pharmacy school near NYC is Long Island University. This makes it much harder to characterize students from the top 20 pharmacy schools versus students from the top 20 medical schools.
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UF is a big time research school, it has a pharmacy school. (The pharmacy school is in the same area as the dental, medical, nursing, PT and PA schools).

3rd year there is a seminar with a bunch of the different health disciplines where everyone is broken up into groups and they get to ask each other about the specialties of each discipline. (Not what pharmacists do, more like information about pharmacology etc.) Pharmacy students end up pretty much teaching the whole seminar and are always grilled with questions from the med. students etc.

Which makes me wonder if what is hard about medical school is the sheer amount of material, and not so much the material itself. Where as pharmacy has tough material but there is not as much of it (still a lot! but probably not quite as much as med. school. I also feel pharmacy schools tend to be nicer to their students and tend to try and make everything digestable where as medical schools just enjoy hammering their poor people into the ground). This theory of mine seems to be justified by all the polls out there about the toughest courses in medical school; pharmacology is generally top 3. Although I think if I'd have done med. school the hardest thing for me would have been anatomy. (Well, it bores me. Organic on the other hand is quite interesting. So it does also depend on who you are).
 
what the hell is this thread about???!! Did we even discuss the original post much?
 
ffpickle said:
Clearly you haven't been here long.
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Did you take the time to read under my sn that I only joined in july or did you just come up with that all on your own? :laugh:
 
I know this thread has died down, but since there was such controversy I felt like commenting on something. I am currently on a rotation that relies heavily on pharmacists. When many people hear medical school that think it is the hardest thing someone can do. I can't disagree more. PharmD's are amazing at the level of knowledge. Everyday I become more and more impressed with pharmacists especially clinical ones. Just listening to them teaches me so much...


I :love: clinical pharmacists.
 
Zrchrn said:
UF is a big time research school, it has a pharmacy school. (The pharmacy school is in the same area as the dental, medical, nursing, PT and PA schools).

3rd year there is a seminar with a bunch of the different health disciplines where everyone is broken up into groups and they get to ask each other about the specialties of each discipline. (Not what pharmacists do, more like information about pharmacology etc.) Pharmacy students end up pretty much teaching the whole seminar and are always grilled with questions from the med. students etc.

Which makes me wonder if what is hard about medical school is the sheer amount of material, and not so much the material itself. Where as pharmacy has tough material but there is not as much of it (still a lot! but probably not quite as much as med. school. I also feel pharmacy schools tend to be nicer to their students and tend to try and make everything digestable where as medical schools just enjoy hammering their poor people into the ground). This theory of mine seems to be justified by all the polls out there about the toughest courses in medical school; pharmacology is generally top 3. Although I think if I'd have done med. school the hardest thing for me would have been anatomy. (Well, it bores me. Organic on the other hand is quite interesting. So it does also depend on who you are).
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The hard part of medical school or medical education mostly is not about the 4 yrs medical school ( most ppl have no problem getting thru), it's all about the training process /residency where you are sleep deprivated constantly, get nervous about if you do the right thing for patients who can crash anytime/in critical conditions, nervous about about if you contracted with some airborne disease or get assaulted when you are on call,sleep deprived, seeing some delirious/agitated patients in ER with unknown medical history , and need to deal with politics....on and on..etc.Pharmacy school is much simpler , much more straigth forward n still have time to enjoy social life outside work, be a human beings instead of cheap slave.
 
miam042 said:
Are you serious? You are a trained pharmacist. You are in no way trained to provide primary care. To suggest so is an insult to any MD/DO student or practitioner who has taken the step to become a physician.

You dispense drugs and deal with pharmacy. That is your field of study and trade. You are good at it but you are not a physician/primary care provider.

The PharmD is a 5-6 yr Bachelor-Masters degree that has been extrapolated into a doctorate degree - please do not assume it qualifies you to offer anyone primary care medicine in any setting.
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interesting but you think nurse practitioners are qualified? a nurse just happens to go and get a 2 yr master and she is suddenly ready to provide primary care?
 
ffpickle said:
what did you tell them??
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Sorry hadn't checked thread in a while - I picked my jaw up off the floor, then I told them about opportunities at little-known places like the FDA, CDC, Ctr for Medicare/caid Svcs and Indian Health Svcs with as straight a face and un-incredulous a look as possible.
 
SHC1984 said:
The reason why I say Derm and Surgeons are smarter is because it is something that I cannot do.:laugh: If I wanted to get into medical school I can. And I can definetly pass classes in med school too b/c I did that for a semester at Columbia (w/o studying on weekends). So getting into med school and getting by is not very hard. However in order to get into a Derm residency or surgery, you have to be #1 or #2 in your class. That is something that I cannot do mainly b/c of lack of motivation. Money/good lifestyle can only motivate me so much...plus I was in NYC...I prefer going out on the weekends than studying.
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surgical residencies are not comparable to derm in difficulty to obtain. maybe certain surgical specialties i.e. urology orthop then ya. general surgery nah not really at all
 
USArmyDoc said:
PharmD's are amazing at the level of knowledge. Everyday I become more and more impressed with pharmacists especially clinical ones. Just listening to them teaches me so much...


I :love: clinical pharmacists.
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I agree. Residency trained or BCPS pharmacists are worth their weight in gold. You have to understand that some med students and docs (esp fields like surgery, pathology) don't get to interact with pharmacists on a continual basis. However, most oncologists, internal med docs, etc know the value of a knowledgeable pharmacist.
 
How hard is it to become a proctologist? (or, sorry, "colorectal surgeon"...****ing Frenchies....)

I'd like to have that job for social reasons. Something about going around and telling people you are a proctologist sounds amazing. It's like it would come with a lease to be a goofy son of a bitch for the amusement said goofyness would manifest by watching other people react to it. Especially confused old people.

"Why's that Mike guy mowing his lawn? There are 4 inches of snow on the ground."
"Well, dear, he's a proctologist. You know..."
 
mmss22 said:
I agree. Residency trained or BCPS pharmacists are worth their weight in gold.
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So a BCPS is worth like $3 million+ on the current gold market? $1k/ounce(16ounces/lbs)(190lbs)...

How much is a regular, smart-ass staff pharmacist that is pretty clever worth? I'd take $750k. Can I proclaim that I'm worth my weight in palladium?
 
You know this is hilarious, I wonder did the op post this tread to see if an evening fight would break out and get a good laugh. - if so it worked LMAO.
 
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miam042 said:
Part of the problem? So your soltion to the primary care issue is to allow non-medically trained pharmacists to become primary care providers? Huh? Thats absurd. I would hope many PharmD students would agree as well.

There are many ways to become a pcp - Go to medical school and get an MD or DO degree. If you just want the patient care part you could go to PA school or become a nurse. All these fields are expanding to fill the PCP gap
at the current time.

Suggesting that PharmDs should just assume this role for a quick fix is ridiculous. Its also insulting to anyone who is actually going to school to become a physician or other pcp provider.

As for the degree...I have thought that one through, have you? Obtaining a PharmD in 6-8 yrs with/without a BA/BS before hand is not the same as attending 4 yrs for a BA/BS, then 4 yrs for a MD/DO, and then 4-7 yrs of residency.
PharmD - 6-8 years total
MD/DO - 12-15 years total
It is not the same. It is about half.

MD/DOs have been receiving doctorates for the past 200 years. It is not an inflated degree. Pharmacy was a masters level degree until recently and many in the academic and working world believe it still is a masters level of education/training that has been inflated to bring respect to the profession.

Why dont you pose this question in the MD/DO forums and see how much respect it brings you and the PharmD community.
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LOl. Feeling a little insecure i see. Is this how you try and pick up girls.. by telling them you're a med student... smarts..lol:laugh:
 
Mariachi said:
so along the lines of pharmacists filling the impending shortage of general practitioners....is it accurate to say that as NP's are taking over the general practitioner dig they lack the pharmacology knowledge of an MD/DO and so depend more on pharmacist consults.. the NP+Clinically trained Pharmacist combo is maybe a paradigm we'll see more and more to fill the GP need?
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Been saying this for 10 years!!! Plus you get the advantage of an additional checkpoint (ie the handoff from the NP to the PharmD)
 
Actually, I am doing this - I'm going to be taking the MCATs and applying for med school in my 5th year, hopefully snag an application and after I graduate in the spring of 6th year, that fall, be going to med school!

But on this page I read 32 MCAT and 3.6 GPA is low. That's actually my goals for when I graduate; I hope my GPA is as high as a 3.6...MCAT, I'm aiming for 30...
 
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I just came across this thread looking at the new posts. I know it's old and all, but since it's already been somewhat revived I'd like to offer my 2 cents...

Firstly, pharmacists should absolutely not be considered a sound alternative to having or seeing a physician for most issues. While pharms may be extensively trained in the human body and may be very familar with medical issues and treatments, they are not diagnosticians.

BUT, I do think there should be greater emphasis on patients consulting pharmacists, especially in this health care area. As an ER employee, I cannot tell you how many patients could have saved themselves a trip to the ER by simply consulting a pharmacist (or primary care provider). We see tons of kids with mild fevers who have not been given tylenol or motrin, people who are constipated (no BM in 2 days) and haven't tried an over the counter laxative, and many people with run of the mill colds or allergic rhinitis who haven't tried to alleviate their symptoms. Seriously, these people come to the ER ALL THE TIME. Pharmacists could also be in the position to advise patients to come to the ER if they have symptoms that could indicate serious problems.

IMO, a new emphasis should be on pharmacists as a source of information for patients, not as PROVIDERS of health care. Too many people see pharmacists as the guys who count their pills, not as a valuable information resource.
 
illegallysmooth said:
I just came across this thread looking at the new posts. I know it's old and all, but since it's already been somewhat revived I'd like to offer my 2 cents...

Firstly, pharmacists should absolutely not be considered a sound alternative to having or seeing a physician for most issues. While pharms may be extensively trained in the human body and may be very familar with medical issues and treatments, they are not diagnosticians.

BUT, I do think there should be greater emphasis on patients consulting pharmacists, especially in this health care area. As an ER employee, I cannot tell you how many patients could have saved themselves a trip to the ER by simply consulting a pharmacist (or primary care provider). We see tons of kids with mild fevers who have not been given tylenol or motrin, people who are constipated (no BM in 2 days) and haven't tried an over the counter laxative, and many people with run of the mill colds or allergic rhinitis who haven't tried to alleviate their symptoms. Seriously, these people come to the ER ALL THE TIME. Pharmacists could also be in the position to advise patients to come to the ER if they have symptoms that could indicate serious problems.

IMO, a new emphasis should be on pharmacists as a source of information for patients, not as PROVIDERS of health care. Too many people see pharmacists as the guys who count their pills, not as a valuable information resource.
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unfortunately there is no money to be made in telling someone to take a tylenol or a laxative, and by that, i mean, nobody wants to pay someone for that
 
What if we added one extra year of schooling and 1 year of rotations and become pharmd practioners, just like nurse practioners or PAs? Would that be ok with you, illegallysmooth? To diagnose?
 
museabuse said:
What if we added one extra year of schooling and 1 year of rotations and become pharmd practioners, just like nurse practioners or PAs? Would that be ok with you, illegallysmooth? To diagnose?
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you can never be able to diagnose or compelte a full workup H/P by yourself as a pharmD for one single reason: conflicts. The main role of a pharmacist is to ensure the dispensing process is correct. So the core function is dispensing. If pharmacists is allowed to diagnose and dispense at the same time....why do we even need MD, PA, NP? It's gonna be just like the old time: you diagnose and dispense...no check/balance system.

So the nature of pharmacy isn't allowed you to diagnose. I am not saying pharmacists cannot diagnose. In fact, if being trained, i am sure some pharm.D would make very good diagnosers....

And if you still argue to me that pharmacists role have been expanding to diagnose...blah...blah blah...then you should have gone to med school or PA school or NP...why wasting time here...

Bottom line: pharmacists deal with medications; other professionals (MD, PA, NP) deals with diagnosing.
 
museabuse said:
What if we added one extra year of schooling and 1 year of rotations and become pharmd practioners, just like nurse practioners or PAs? Would that be ok with you, illegallysmooth? To diagnose?
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In NC, the Certified Pharmacist Practitioner (CPP) exists. 3 years after Pharm.D and a close relationship with physicians, pharms apply for the title and register with both the Board of Pharmacy and Board of Medicine.

CPP's can only work within a certain protocol though e.g. anticoagulation, etc. and have the power to prescribe within that area.
 
I wasn't talking about dispensing and diagnosing although aren't mds allowed to do this in certain states? I was talking about having a PP degree (pharmacist practioner). Just like NP, they don't practice nursing anymore, they are diagnosers, they would work in same places as NP. Some people practice pharmacy for a while and then realize with their knowledge and clinical experience they may be better suited as a diagnoser. Why should we have to go back through medical school when 2 years should be enough especially if it is for nurses...

In AZ, NPs have same prescribing power as MDs and can work independent from MD. Some have even open primary care and derm clinics.

I'm not saying it's right but if people think nurses have enough education to diagnose in 2 years then certainly pharmacists do.
 
museabuse said:
I wasn't talking about dispensing and diagnosing although aren't mds allowed to do this in certain states? I was talking about having a PP degree (pharmacist practioner). Just like NP, they don't practice nursing anymore, they are diagnosers, they would work in same places as NP. Some people practice pharmacy for a while and then realize with their knowledge and clinical experience they may be better suited as a diagnoser. Why should we have to go back through medical school when 2 years should be enough especially if it is for nurses...

In AZ, NPs have same prescribing power as MDs and can work independent from MD. Some have even open primary care and derm clinics.

I'm not saying it's right but if people think nurses have enough education to diagnose in 2 years then certainly pharmacists do.
Click to expand...

There are also pharmacists in the Indian Health Service who do everything a PA or NP can including workup, diagnosis, and prescribing.
 
museabuse said:
I wasn't talking about dispensing and diagnosing although aren't mds allowed to do this in certain states? I was talking about having a PP degree (pharmacist practioner). Just like NP, they don't practice nursing anymore, they are diagnosers, they would work in same places as NP. Some people practice pharmacy for a while and then realize with their knowledge and clinical experience they may be better suited as a diagnoser. Why should we have to go back through medical school when 2 years should be enough especially if it is for nurses...

In AZ, NPs have same prescribing power as MDs and can work independent from MD. Some have even open primary care and derm clinics.

I'm not saying it's right but if people think nurses have enough education to diagnose in 2 years then certainly pharmacists do.
Click to expand...

you made a good point there, museabuse. However, in general, if one wanna diagnose and prescribe, that person should have gone to med school or PA/NP school. To me, i don't think you are "cooler" or "more powerful" if you can write a prescription or diagnose a medical problem....it's two different types of work. Talking to an NP the other day and she told me she would exchange her job with mine with any heartbeat. She's so overworked and abused that she has to see 50 patients within 7 hours!!! This is not the way medicine is practiced...she felt like she works for mcdonald...lol. And yeah, she makes 20 dollars/her less than the rate that i am paid for now...
 
I scratch my head as to why people don't understand why pharms diagnosing and prescribing will never take off. So you want to pharms to have the same diagnostic and prescribing authorities as NP/PA's? Fine. Do you want to get paid like them too? 70k would be a generous salary for an NP/PA. Oh. So who here wants a 30% reduction in salary? No practice or company will pay you 100k when they can hire someone else for the same job for 30% less.
 
Taurus said:
I scratch my head as to why people don't understand why pharms diagnosing and prescribing will never take off. So you want to pharms to have the same diagnostic and prescribing authorities as NP/PA's? Fine. Do you want to get paid like them too? 70k would be a generous salary for an NP/PA. Oh. So who here wants a 30% reduction in salary? No practice or company will pay you 100k when they can hire someone else for the same job for 30% less.
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is maybe people get burnt out working pharmacy and want an oppurtunity to change and even take a pay cut. Maybe there will be a surplus but there will be a need for practioners, and maybe pharmacist can naturally move into that role with 2 years of school. I agree if you want to diagnose go md/pa route from the begining, but some people go into pharmacy and then later realize maybe they would be better practioners. And if nurses can make the switch then certainly pharmacists can, I believe their clinical knowledge they get in school far exceeds what you learn in nursing school.
 
rxforlife2004 said:
you made a good point there, museabuse. However, in general, if one wanna diagnose and prescribe, that person should have gone to med school or PA/NP school. To me, i don't think you are "cooler" or "more powerful" if you can write a prescription or diagnose a medical problem....it's two different types of work. Talking to an NP the other day and she told me she would exchange her job with mine with any heartbeat. She's so overworked and abused that she has to see 50 patients within 7 hours!!! This is not the way medicine is practiced...she felt like she works for mcdonald...lol. And yeah, she makes 20 dollars/her less than the rate that i am paid for now...
Click to expand...

That's how I feel about pharmacy right now. There are good days and there are bad days... and then there are most days. Most days, :xf:, I come into work... and before I punch in... I'm already helping with the patients that are checking out their Rx. I plaster a nice big smile on my face and say "do you have any questions for the pharmacist?" "Alright, if you will please sign here." "Have a good day, hope you feel better." It feels like a McDonalds to me. However, there are times when I feel that all this is worth it especially when a patient comes up and starts asking for recommendations regarding medications. With my pharmacist nearby (earshot :laugh:), I counsel the patient regarding different medications that they could take and for my hardwork I get a :) and a thank you.

However, its become apparent to me that I won't stay with pharmacy after thinking long and hard about it. But, the PharmD no doubt will make me a better physcian and give me greater understanding of pharmacist.
 
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