Mayo vs Yale

[Boris Badenov]

Thanks for all the great feedback we're (my friend and I) getting from this thread! It seems to be widely contested whether the Mayo name or the Yale name would be better just for recognition value. Some are claiming the Yale has a better match list---does anyone have objective statements about this point? It also seems like the Yale and Mayo programs have pretty different styles, which is a big factor to consider....

First off, I want to revise my earlier statement about the match lists. The match list I examined that I thought was Mayo's was actually another school's. Mayo's match list is actually very strong.

That said, I would still describe Yale's as considerably stronger, and I'd say I'm better qualified to interpret these data than almost anyone here.

If you want "objective statements," you can look at the match lists themselves (Yale, Mayo), but I don't think you'd be able to make much of them as a pre-med. If you want (questionable) numbers, roughly ~30% of Mayo grads matched into the so-called competitive fields, while almost 40% of Yale grads did. Of course student preferences vary from school to school and from class to class, so I wouldn't put too much stock in percentages, particularly when one of our sample sizes is 43.

Overall, both match lists are very impressive, and I'm sure your friend will really go places as a grad of either school. But Yale's list is really obscene and mouthwatering, not just by specialty representation, but also by top-notch, out-of-this-world placement.

Almost everyone matched to their first choice (40/42).

Where is this data available? This claim is seriously dubious, unless you mean "first choice specialty."

Thirdly, as far as program directors not knowing "old friends from Mayo." If you've been to national meetings you will soon realize, the top-dogs on the American Board/College of (insert any specialty here), either are on staff at Mayo or trained at Mayo at some point in their careers (ESPECIALLY in the surgical arena). The staff at Mayo are some of the absolute leaders in their respective fields. Chances are, if you're not at Mayo, MGH, Hopkins, or UCSF -- the guy writing your letter of rec from your school (even at Yale) probably wishes he was boyz with the department heads at the Mayo Clinic.

You are really, really overstating this. Considering Mayo's great reputation, I would argue that Mayo-trained physicians are grossly underrepresented among the top dogs anywhere.

Looking at the executive board of the American College of Surgeons, I'm seeing names like Harvard, Columbia, Cornell, Brigham & Women's, Dana Farber, Sloan-Kettering, Emory, UAB, and UCSF. No Mayos to be found among faculty appointments or at any level of training.

Looking at the top dogs in the American College of Physicians, I see names like UT Southwestern, Baylor, Penn, NYU, UCSD, Cornell, UChicago, Harvard, Washington, and MGH. Again, no Mayo representation at any level.

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[Doctor&Geek]

Too bad you won't be the one treating them.

 

[pyrois]

You are really, really overstating this. Considering Mayo's great reputation, I would argue that Mayo-trained physicians are grossly underrepresented among the top dogs anywhere.

Looking at the executive board of the American College of Surgeons, I'm seeing names like Harvard, Columbia, Cornell, Brigham & Women's, Dana Farber, Sloan-Kettering, Emory, UAB, and UCSF. No Mayos to be found among faculty appointments or at any level of training.

Looking at the top dogs in the American College of Physicians, I see names like UT Southwestern, Baylor, Penn, NYU, UCSD, Cornell, UChicago, Harvard, Washington, and MGH. Again, no Mayo representation at any level.

No Yalies either

Not like that matters, but it doesn't matter with respect to Mayo either in that regard.

 

[ggman]

Bottom line -- if you've got the scores, the grades, the research, and the effort, with names like Mayo or Yale following you -- you're gonna be kicking ass and taking names on the match trail no matter what.

VERY well said. To the OP, that's really what it boils down to. Your choice should be based on what school suits you better personally, because both schools will open up the same doors when the residency match comes around.

 

[owenmichael]

VERY well said. To the OP, that's really what it boils down to. Your choice should be based on what school suits you better personally, because both schools will open up the same doors when the residency match comes around.

Yeh I completely agree.
You cannot make a mistake with either school. I think Mayo is doing some really innovative stuff with their curriculum and funding for all sorts of opportunities which is why I leaned towards it in the application process over some Ivies.

Both match lists are impressive. A ridiculously high percentage of Mayo kids match into their top choice residency. In terms of differences in match list, I really do believe there is an Ivy League Club. Basically, if you want to do residency at any of those east coast hospitals, I think it helps to go to school there. Mayo kids tend to like staying in the midwest thus explaining maybe a lack of east coast big names on the match list. Again, both are impressive and you can't go wrong going to either.

I will contend with the point a poster made above about there not being alot of Mayo trained physicians. Mayo has some of the highest volume residency programs in the country. Not only that, but I can tell you a TON of doctors come here from hopkins/ harvard/ Penn etc... to do fellowships. There really is an immense Mayo network.

A previous poster said their was a negative connonation associated with Yale. I find that REALLY hard to believe. Yale is an extremely well respected school, with a great medical program. In terms of respect/prestige, which was being discussed by a previous poster, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the medical community who isn't impressed by Mayo as medical school, and as an institution. Yes I agree that the average laymen will recognize Yale's name (as a medical school) first.... but I tend to side with what the medical community thinks as being more important.

Overall........ prestige, education your receive etc.. Yale=Mayo
Pick based on what feels right.

 

[SupergreenMnM]

Secondly, going to Mayo Medical school certainly does NOT lock anybody into any program at Mayo. Several of the programs at Mayo, especially those that are very highly desired and ultra-competitive on a national/international level (i.e. ortho, neurosurg, ent, radiology, derm) are extremely competitive whether or not you go to medical school there. So for the student who said "At very worse, you can rely on matching back to mayo," you better publish, ace your rotations and smack the **** outta Step 1 if you wanna match into something competitive at Mayo (sorry to be the bearer of the truth).

Sorry, I assumed everyone knew this part and didn't mention it explicitly. Good points btw.

 

[SupergreenMnM]

A previous poster said their was a negative connonation associated with Yale. I find that REALLY hard to believe.

Overall........ prestige, education your receive etc.. Yale=Mayo
Pick based on what feels right.

I saw and heard of it when I was considering Yale. Perhaps it helps that I wasn't really a premed, and I hear different things than an undergrad would; also I was specifically talking about opinions I received from phsycians and residency directors that I know in the mt. west.

As someone else stated, and I agree, if you come from either school with killer grades/evals, boards, etc. you will be set either way.

Final comment: both schools are very very different in their education systems. If you are not good with unstructured self led systems you might have a hard time being that guy with killer grades, etc. at Yale Same time, you might not like the small class and extreme level of individual attn. you get at Mayo.

 

[Towelie]

This seems to have turned into a Mayo vs. Yale thread, forgetting the fact that Mayo comes with a FULL RIDE.

I'm in a similar situation to this. I've asked most of my mentors, and the residents in my department, for their opinions. Every single one of them, including the Harvard/Hopkins grads (sometimes most strenuously), have said to take the money. You can't predict the effect that going to Mayo vs. going to Yale will have on your career. Chances are you will do equally well at either school. You can, however, predict what the extra $200K will do for you, and your ability to purchase a home, save for your kids' college funds, or pursue less lucrative career options that might be preferable to you.

 

[jbar]

As Eurozo said, you have to see what kind of package Yale will give you before you sort out the finances. It prob won't be a matter of free ride v 200K debt, but free vrs. X debt. (I know, free is free, but many people who are going to make $200k/yr might not care too much about $40k of debt to go to somewhere they like)

 

[SupergreenMnM]

From my experience Yale is better than most for aid, but as I mentioned for a dirt poor student like me with Yale's offer I would have had 150k of debt coming out. A lot of students at Yale have substantial parental support and simply don't take out as much in loans. Also, remember that at Mayo you will still probably have to take out about 10k in loans a year to pay rent if you don't have some other way to pay for it. That said, Mayo students consistently rank lowest in debt owed after medical school (as expected).

 

[Mr. Tee]

This seems to have turned into a Mayo vs. Yale thread, forgetting the fact that Mayo comes with a FULL RIDE.

I'm in a similar situation to this. I've asked most of my mentors, and the residents in my department, for their opinions. Every single one of them, including the Harvard/Hopkins grads (sometimes most strenuously), have said to take the money. You can't predict the effect that going to Mayo vs. going to Yale will have on your career. Chances are you will do equally well at either school. You can, however, predict what the extra $200K will do for you, and your ability to purchase a home, save for your kids' college funds, or pursue less lucrative career options that might be preferable to you.

Did you read post #8?

 

[EBI831]

just thought it was humorous if only to me that if you rearrange it its yayo or male? which for some might be a harder decision.

 

[SupergreenMnM]

Did you read post #8?

My ACTUAL aid offer ended up being very different than that, about 10k cost to me for Mayo and about 45k cost to me at yale (for both I'm talking tuition + rent + any other req'd expenses per year).

Also, look very hard at your learning style, again...very different styles of teaching which may or may not be for you.

 

[melissainsd]

It is too bad you won't be able to attend Yale's second look before you have to decide.

 

[pyrois]

From my experience Yale is better than most for aid, but as I mentioned for a dirt poor student like me with Yale's offer I would have had 150k of debt coming out. A lot of students at Yale have substantial parental support and simply don't take out as much in loans. Also, remember that at Mayo you will still probably have to take out about 10k in loans a year to pay rent if you don't have some other way to pay for it. That said, Mayo students consistently rank lowest in debt owed after medical school (as expected).

Actually I think that statement must be reserved for Stanford students They came in something like 61k last year average, and Mayo-ees were at 63k.

That being said, even Stanford isn't the "lowest." Only amongst the highly ranked schools.

 

[Kitra101]

troll?

 

[melissainsd]

All I know is that some of you need to choose Yale or there will be NO movement on the Mayo alternate list this year





edit: who are you asking about (troll)?

 

[Max8]

troll?

I don't really think anyone on this thread is a troll...... Just a lot of interested opinionated people....definitely liked the "yayo"/"male" suggestion.

MelissainSD, I"ll make sure my friend knows there are dedicated Mayo-ites waiting to snap up his place if he were to turn it down.

And yeah, it really is too bad about the second look, that's one of the big reasons I created this thread. A related question---what do you all think of the idea of asking Mayo's adcom if they could extend the decision deadline beyond Yale's Revisit date to allow for a more informed decision? Is that a rude thing to do? Would it be flat-out denied? Would it make a horrible "first impression" on Mayo if he (my friend) were to later matriculate there?

 

[Max8]

Also, look very hard at your learning style, again...very different styles of teaching which may or may not be for you.

Yes, a lot of people are commenting on the difference in teaching styles at the two schools.... Seems like Yale is pretty far to the hands-off side of the spectrum and Mayo's fairly hands-on...is that accurate?

 

[chandelantern]

And yeah, it really is too bad about the second look, that's one of the big reasons I created this thread. A related question---what do you all think of the idea of asking Mayo's adcom if they could extend the decision deadline beyond Yale's Revisit date to allow for a more informed decision? Is that a rude thing to do? Would it be flat-out denied? Would it make a horrible "first impression" on Mayo if he (my friend) were to later matriculate there?

I think it would be very appropriate to ask Mayo for an extension on the April 15 date. I don't know for sure but I would imagine they will be flexible with him as long as he is upfront about when he would be able to give them an answer.

The debate on this forum is great Obviously I'm biased so I'm not going to tell the OP all the reasons I think Mayo is superior (for starters I didn't even interview at Yale so my ability to compare would be highly disregarded.) I do want to mention a little something about the Mayo curriculum. It is different than Yale's but I wouldn't say it is extremely different. They really instill the concept of the students being responsible for their own education here (just like at Yale) and although we do have exams at the end of the blocks, everyone passes so ultimately how much you get out of it and retain is up to you. No one is holding your hand as suggested by a previous poster, although if you want/need help there are a ton of resources and the faculty are definitely there to provide you with 1:1 help (although I would imagine Yale would be similar, no?) Lastly, a significant amount of your learning experience (30 weeks in the first 2 years and countless afternoons) you structure on your own.

 

[SupergreenMnM]

Actually I think that statement must be reserved for Stanford students They came in something like 61k last year average, and Mayo-ees were at 63k.

That being said, even Stanford isn't the "lowest." Only amongst the highly ranked schools.

US News has Mayo ranked lowest (you're right, its only among the good schools ) at 62k and stanford at 66k this year. Again, as I think Mayo takes a bit more financially challenged people (me!) this can be a bit misleading, I think if they both accepted the same population Mayo would be even lower.

Its funny, I wonder if I had chosen Yale if the Mayo people would have gotten all mad and wondered why I went there; it seems that since I chose Mayo there are some Yale people who get upset when I say I chose Mayo based on the merits Some things are just more important for me, so I chose the place that had more of them. Still...I'll be buying a warm winter coat for next year...not to mention I've been cooped up in a research lab for the last few years, I almost don't remember what lecture classes are like.

 

[chandelantern]

Yes, a lot of people are commenting on the difference in teaching styles at the two schools.... Seems like Yale is pretty far to the hands-off side of the spectrum and Mayo's fairly hands-on...is that accurate?

What do you mean by "hands-off" vs "hands-on"? If you're talking about clinical experience from day 1 (and integration of clinical experience) Mayo is definitely "hands-on." We've all scrubbed into surgeries, done patient interviews and physical exams, and have seen numerous clinical cases that have helped guide and expand our "book" learning. If you're talking more about how much time is spent in class...typically we have mornings in lectures/lab/discussions and several afternoons a week of clinical integration (depending on the block.)

 

[Max8]

What do you mean by "hands-off" vs "hands-on"? If you're talking about clinical experience from day 1 (and integration of clinical experience) Mayo is definitely "hands-on." We've all scrubbed into surgeries, done patient interviews and physical exams, and have seen numerous clinical cases that have helped guide and expand our "book" learning. If you're talking more about how much time is spent in class...typically we have mornings in lectures/lab/discussions and several afternoons a week of clinical integration (depending on the block.)

I mean in terms of the administration guiding your education....not in terms of clinical....but maybe I am wrong.....? Mayo does have a bit more of a rep for hand-holding students through things....

 

[chandelantern]

I mean in terms of the administration guiding your education....not in terms of clinical....but maybe I am wrong.....? Mayo does have a bit more of a rep for hand-holding students through things....

Ah i see. I guess I don't have anything from personal experience to compare it to other than my giant undergrad school. I don't feel as if there is too much guidance...just comparing it to some of the schools my friends are at this is very low-stress, flexible learning environment. It is very personal though...the administration and faculty definitely knows who you are and although some students regularly skip class I don't think it goes unnoticed since we are such a small group. In my opinion I feel like we have great communication with the faculty and admin and they are very receptive to our input on the curriculum or other things. Part of the Mayo model is that we are, even as students, an important part of the team. This is probably getting side-tracked... if your friend still has questions about the learning environment here let me know.

 

[jjmack]

Go to Mayo, it is like no place else in the world. I said this before, George Bush, Kings and foreign dignitaries can choose to get medical treatment anywhere they want. Where do they choose to get treated at, The Mayo Clinic.

also the cleveland clinic.

 

[Mr. Tee]

also the cleveland clinic.

Don't forget the JHH too.

 

[SupergreenMnM]

Funny thing I saw at Mayo; the big hotel there (Kaser Grand??) had a floor that was reserved for visiting princes

 

[Shadowboricua]

na

 

[melissainsd]

Important update for those of you deciding whether to attend Mayo - students accepted at Mayo actually have until May 15th to decide. The April 15th deadline was communicated in error and the medical school will be sending out correction notices shortly (at least all according to Dean Porter). Looks like there is time to think things through, visit second look weekend at Yale etc, and then make your decision.

Actually the April 15th date was going to be correct, until they became behind on the financial aid packets.

I would like to ask that you be considerate of people on waitlists (like me), and withdraw from either school as soon as you decide. This is a huge decision, and I do NOT want to rush you. Take all the time you like, but when you decide just don't procrastinate until May 15th. Please.

 

[pyrois]

Important update for those of you deciding whether to attend Mayo - students accepted at Mayo actually have until May 15th to decide. The April 15th deadline was communicated in error and the medical school will be sending out correction notices shortly (at least all according to Dean Porter). Looks like there is time to think things through, visit second look weekend at Yale etc, and then make your decision.

This isn't a late April Fool's joke is it? If not, oh man this would be a HUGE relief

 

[Shadowboricua]

na