MCAT Is The Bigger Key To Acceptance.

[jult24er]

---

Members do not see this ad.

My post was in response to someone who seemed to think that ECs and interview scores were "unscalable" and thus "unreliable data". I wasn't making a blanket statement, and I don't really even care about the original topic of the thread. Don't "ugh" me.

I remember that post. You said interviews and ECs are scalable. And you did not want to talk about it.

 

[Handy388]

I remember that post. You said interviews and ECs are scalable. And you did not want to talk about it.

sure, we can rank EC and interviews. So you come in with an Armani suit or you done work in Africa because you are rich and well connected and can afford to do those, good for you, do they really make you a good doctor vs. say, your ability to do well in a test that correlate with your preference on USMLE?

 

[jult24er]

sure, we can rank EC and interviews. So you come in with an Armani suit or you done work in Africa because you are rich and well connected and can afford to do those, good for you, do they really make you a good doctor vs. say, your ability to do well in a test that correlate with your preference on USMLE?

Work in Africa * 3 + Work in Asia, Columbia or Portugal *1.5 + Fullbrights * Marshalls + Inner City Youth Educated on AIDS Through Club You Founded/3 + Hours in a Hospital * Length of Story Where you Realized 'Medicine!' + Funny Jokes Told in Interview.

Does reading what's written on an applicant's soul help determine the kind of doctor they'll be? Is reading souls a subtle and complex task that demands high secondary fees, large admission office budgets and top compensation for deans of admissions?

 

[nata723]

As long as GPA is above say 3.8, there isn't too too much of a difference...there are tons of students with 3.8-4.0 GPA

However, with the MCAT, above 35 there can be a HUGE difference
...there aren't many students with 37 or 38+ on the MCAT

Basically, I'm saying that there is no 'limit' or 'roof' on the MCAT and so a higher score is more likely to get noticed

 

[Handy388]

Work in Africa * 3 + Work in Asia, Columbia or Portugal *1.5 + Fullbrights * Marshalls + Inner City Youth Educated on AIDS Through Club You Founded/3 + Hours in a Hospital * Length of Story Where you Realized 'Medicine!' + Funny Jokes Told in Interview.

Does reading what's written on an applicant's soul help determine the kind of doctor they'll be? Is reading souls a subtle and complex task that demands high secondary fees, large admission office budgets and top compensation for deans of admissions?

I hope you are kidding, because I know MANY who would do the above JUST to get into med school. I grew up in a community where parents push their ids to found all kind of BS activity that entails to nothing just to impress colleges. A lot of time EC says nothing geniune about a person's passion for medicine.

 

[Doublecortin]

jult24er and Vihsadas

I am surprised how little you know about some aspects of the medical schools admissions. For whatever is worth, there is nothing dubious about my statement.

Do you know what the Academic Index is? The AI is used by elite schools and the MCAT and GPA are part of the formula. Unfortunately, the MCAT carries a greater weight and this number is used to compare applicants. Most schools feel that the MCAT is what allows to compare people from different schools.

The AI is the sum of GPA, science GPA and the average of all 3 MCAT scores for a perfect score of 23. As you can see, just the MCAT alone is over 65% of the total number ( nothing dubious about "almost 2/3" is it?)

Most applicants that gain admissions have a score of at least 16. Then again, for the most competitive and top 10 schools in the country, a 21 hovers around the minimum.

Students that fail to get accepted, usually have no clue about the admission process. I would recommend for you two to become more familiar with it. Knowing this stuff really helps.

😱 anyone smell a

 

[BrainBuff]

^^^ LOL

whatever dude

 

[TheRealMD]

As long as GPA is above say 3.8, there isn't too too much of a difference...there are tons of students with 3.8-4.0 GPA

However, with the MCAT, above 35 there can be a HUGE difference
...there aren't many students with 37 or 38+ on the MCAT

Basically, I'm saying that there is no 'limit' or 'roof' on the MCAT and so a higher score is more likely to get noticed

When the difference between a 36 and a 41 may be as little as 6 questions out of 160 or so, no, there isn't a "huge" difference.

 

[nata723]

When the difference between a 36 and a 41 may be as little as 6 questions out of 160 or so, no, there isn't a "huge" difference.

Believe me, there is...what else sets a candidate apart if you have one student with a 3.9 from a state school and a 3.8 from a well-known private one? At least in my case, the MCAT score was my saving grace and gave me opportunities I otherwise wouldn't have had. My other stuff wasn't outstanding (ECs, public school, etc.), so what else would have set me apart?

And the 6 questions you mentioned above MAY be the difference b/w a 36 and a 41 (although I think it's more questions than that), but it represents many more hours of studying and practice. After all, those questions are probably the ones that many others missed, thus making it much harder to achieve a high score.

(by the way, I hope my posts aren't offending you, realMD. I respect your opinion a lot but I want to make my view known, as well.)

 

[bozz]

IMO getting that 40 is pretty damn hard... even if you're consistently getting 36s.. there seems to be a biiig difference between a 35 and a 40. Being 5 points above average at a top school is definitely a major plus.

 

[nata723]

IMO getting that 40 is pretty damn hard... even if you're consistently getting 36s.. there seems to be a biiig difference between a 35 and a 40. Being 5 points above average at a top school is definitely a major plus.

Congrats on your score and best of luck to you in this app process!

 

[flip26]

Believe me, there is...what else sets a candidate apart if you have one student with a 3.9 from a state school and a 3.8 from a well-known private one? At least in my case, the MCAT score was my saving grace and gave me opportunities I otherwise wouldn't have had. My other stuff wasn't outstanding (ECs, public school, etc.), so what else would have set me apart?

And the 6 questions you mentioned above MAY be the difference b/w a 36 and a 41 (although I think it's more questions than that), but it represents many more hours of studying and practice. After all, those questions are probably the ones that many others missed, thus making it much harder to achieve a high score.

(by the way, I hope my posts aren't offending you, realMD. I respect your opinion a lot but I want to make my view known, as well.)

Your belief based on your personal experience is not heavily supported by the MCAT charts in the MSAR in that from about 36 on up, the spread between matriculants and all applicants (the "unaccepteds") is very thin - yes it narrows further as MCAT goes higher (meaning a higher percentage of these applicants matriculate as the tail on the curve flattens out) but we know from examples of real people on SDN that not ALL applicants with a 40+ get an acceptance...nobody knows what difference it made for YOU at the schools you applied to, but in looking at the data, it does not make that much difference in chances...

 

[bozz]

In the end, I guess we can't really know

I mean people with 40s will want to feel unique, so they'll say a 40 makes it so much easier to get in
People with 35s will want to feel like there's barely any difference between a 35 and a 40, so they'll say it doesn't make a difference

Who really knows what goes on in adcoms' minds? 😀

 

[Lecter]

MCAT score, SCHMCAT score.

Let's focus on what really matters: joining lots of clubs and volunteering! 😛

 

[gplex86]

I'll sum up my opinion as follows:

If you study a bit for the MCAT and get a 40. Great - awesome, even. If you spend months of practice exams to raise your score get from a 30-something to a 40, you're an idiot in my opinion. That's right, an idiot.

In that time, you could have been working with real doctors and nurses in a trauma center. Getting an EMT license. Doing some real research. Publishing. Genuinely increasing your knowledge and experience of the medical field. Maybe even helping a person or two. How about a class in something other than science for once?

I think the real problem with people who have super high GPA's and super high MCAT's is that you put far too much time into those endeavors, which in the end teaches you nothing at all. A body builder spends so much time perfecting his muscles, but you ask him to run a mile and he'll pass out.

I'd much rather be the guy who's good at everything, than amazing in just one thing and ignorant of at all the rest.

So, again, congrats on all the great scores. I just hope you didn't waste all your time getting them when a "good" score would have sufficed.

 

[45408]

An average MCAT of 13 ( which is in the ball park for the ivies) would give you a 21, yes.

EPIC LULZ. Great April Fool's joke, man. I commend you.

 

[45408]

Here you go with the rest for that particular year:

First column is MCAT score, then PS, Bio, Verbal and Writing
11 9 % 5% 3 % 7 % (P)
12 33 % 27 % 21 % 19 % (R)
13 67 % 67 % 65 % 62 % (Q)
14 89 % 88 % 81 % 79 % (S)

No one with a 10

So 9% of the class got an 11, 33% of the class got a 12, 67% of the class got a 13, and 89% of the class got a 14?

Your brain is not very buff if you don't see the problem there.

 

[bozz]

So 9% of the class got an 11, 33% of the class got a 12, 67% of the class got a 13, and 89% of the class got a 14?

Your brain is not very buff if you don't see the problem there.

I think he meant: 89% of those who applied with a 14 got in and so on..

still I wonder where he got those statistics from

 

[Lecter]

I'll sum up my opinion as follows:

If you study a bit for the MCAT and get a 40. Great - awesome, even. If you spend months of practice exams to raise your score get from a 30-something to a 40, you're an idiot in my opinion. That's right, an idiot.

You, sir, are an idiot. I'm pretty sure I'd devote an entire year to studying if it guaranteed a 40 and any realistic med applicant would do the same. Unfortunately I can't afford to do that so I'll compromise 6 months for a 35 😀

Also, nobody "studies a bit" and gets a 40.

In that time, you could have been working with real doctors and nurses in a trauma center. Getting an EMT license. Doing some real research. Publishing. Genuinely increasing your knowledge and experience of the medical field. Maybe even helping a person or two. How about a class in something other than science for once?

working with docs and nurses, check
EMT, check
research, check
published, in review
helping people, let some kid cheat off me in calculus yesterday
non-science, i took badminton once...does that count?

Can i study for the MCAT now?

A body builder spends so much time perfecting his muscles, but you ask him to run a mile and he'll pass out.

Most bodybuilders do anywhere between 1-3 hours of cardio a day in the 3-4 months leading up to a competition. They have phenomenal cardiovascular endurance.

 

[45408]

A body builder spends so much time perfecting his muscles, but you ask him to run a mile and he'll pass out.

Does it bother you at all that your analogy is very ignorant and incorrect? Next you'll be telling me that they're inflexible and can't itch themselves in hard-to-reach places.

 

[Arc]

sure, we can rank EC and interviews. So you come in with an Armani suit or you done work in Africa because you are rich and well connected and can afford to do those, good for you, do they really make you a good doctor vs. say, your ability to do well in a test that correlate with your preference on USMLE?

Do work in Africa? I never really got the point of people doing all of that, but then again, I have relatives there, so it isn't exactly significant to me.

 

[Lecter]

Does it bother you at all that your analogy is very ignorant and incorrect? Next you'll be telling me that they're inflexible and can't itch themselves in hard-to-reach places.

yeah buddy. note the HGH and IGF1 induced gut though.

 

[45408]

yeah buddy. note the HGH and IGF1 induced gut though.

Way to pick the one where he's leaning forward and looks pregnant.

 

[Lecter]

nuttin but a peanut

 

[hawk126]

Yeah, but the poster above was talking about a 3.01...not a little lower, but a LOT lower than the median...the more MDApps profiles I look at, and the more I read about admissions, the more I believe that a median GPA (3.67 and increasiing) along with a median MCAT (31 - 32) is sufficient, but GPAs south of 3.4, no matter how strong the MCAT, are killing people's chances...GPA is critical in the admissions process, more so than the MCAT...

Agreed. This has been my experience. 35 MCAT and 3.4 GPA was enough to get me 8 interviews, but only one acceptance. Don't misunderstand, I'm thrilled with my 1 acceptance, but with a 3.5 I feel like I would have been more competitive.

However, I think that an MCAT score of 26 or below, regardless of your GPA, would have the same effect.

 

[Ella Shepherd]

Woah. A little encouraging for me but I dunno...

 

[SStorm]

Hmm, what are the odds that Brainbuff is the same guy as Moviebuff from this page?

 

[flip26]

Hmm, what are the odds that Brainbuff is the same guy as Moviebuff from this page?

Moviebuff on that other forum is a total jackass idiot. I would never say that about our very own brainbuff...

 

[SStorm]

Though, I also found this. The post by 0099900 seems to semi-confirm what BrainBuff is saying. Though his "respectable" AI ranges are a bit different.

 

[flip26]

Though, I also found this. The post by 0099900 seems to semi-confirm what BrainBuff is saying. Though his "respectable" AI ranges are a bit different.

Who the heck is that? I mean, he is a CANADIAN for chrissakes!

What a joke - he claims it is some exerpt [sic] from an Ivy adcom, and it contains the following 8th grade quality taunt:

Poor performance on them shows you are not competitive with other applicants who aced them.

Oh please, that is too rich...must have been in the handbook of one of the lesser Ivies...and who refers to the MCAT as "them" - I have seen lots of *****s on SDN who call it the MCATs, but I would think an Ivy adcom might know better...

 

[jult24er]

Agreed. This has been my experience. 35 MCAT and 3.4 GPA was enough to get me 8 interviews, but only one acceptance. Don't misunderstand, I'm thrilled with my 1 acceptance, but with a 3.5 I feel like I would have been more competitive.

However, I think that an MCAT score of 26 or below, regardless of your GPA, would have the same effect.

Hmm, you, me, SStorm, all above average mcat,below average grades, decent amount of interviews, low (no) acceptances.

Provisional theory - having high MCAT and low GPA is correlated with something else that makes its impact post-interview (attitude, philosophy, ECs, LORs, etc. , i dunno)

So its not that GPA is more important, thats why all the interviews, its that its more correlated with other things that get the acceptance post interview.

 

[whoisthedrizzle]

nuttin but a peanut

lol

his voice is hilariously high

 

[MilkmanAl]

Before I applied, I was assured by several people with educated opinions that, given my strong PS and acceptable EC's, a 35 would at least get me in somewhere, despite my GPA. Uh...that hasn't panned out too well just yet. I'm 1-23 on interviews so far, and it's not like I only applied to top-tier schools. Even though that 1 interview went unbelievably well, I got waitlisted. It's obviously very late in the cycle now, so I assume I'm just waiting on rejections from the last 5 schools. In case it wasn't already obvious, a low GPA can slaughter your app no matter how good the rest of it is.

 

[flip26]

Before I applied, I was assured by several people with educated opinions that, given my strong PS and acceptable EC's, a 35 would at least get me in somewhere, despite my GPA. Uh...that hasn't panned out too well just yet. I'm 1-23 on interviews so far, and it's not like I only applied to top-tier schools. Even though that 1 interview went unbelievably well, I got waitlisted. It's obviously very late in the cycle now, so I assume I'm just waiting on rejections from the last 5 schools. In case it wasn't already obvious, a low GPA can slaughter your app no matter how good the rest of it is.

People mean well - nobody wants to discourage someone - and ultimately, nobody really knows. But I think you got some bum advice...

If you look your GPA up in the MSAR charts, you will get a sick feeling in your gut.

Your best shot is an SMP at this point - that is, if you can find one that will take you. Better than thnking you can raise your GPA more than about another tenth of a point, and that would require a ton of nothing but As...

What about DO?

Good luck.

 

[BrainBuff]

Though, I also found this. The post by 0099900 seems to semi-confirm what BrainBuff is saying. Though his "respectable" AI ranges are a bit different.

His "respectable" AI ranges are not a bit different than what I said. I think I stated that based on the information that I had reviewed, with a 21 one could feel very confident applying to the ivies since the typical med school applicant has an AI between 17-18. He is saying that successful applicants have from 16-23.

Again, i thought that this kind of information would be helpful at the time of applying. We all know how crazy the process is. A couple of hours ago I talked to someone with a 3.9 GPA from UC Berkeley and a 37 (roughly and AI of 20) who did not get in anywhere!! He apparently had neglected his ECs and did not appear well rounded. I am guessing he probably went too high... or got "tufted".

The dude is freaking out now!

 

[ayushman80]

Does it bother you at all that your analogy is very ignorant and incorrect? Next you'll be telling me that they're inflexible and can't itch themselves in hard-to-reach places.

I'm a bodybuilder and so huge that I can't touch my thumbs together🙂

 

[MilkmanAl]

People mean well - nobody wants to discourage someone - and ultimately, nobody really knows. But I think you got some bum advice...

I'm thinking so.

Your best shot is an SMP at this point - that is, if you can find one that will take you. Better than thnking you can raise your GPA more than about another tenth of a point, and that would require a ton of nothing but As...

Eh, screw SMP's. I can get my science GPA up over 3.0 with 6 hours of A's or 8 hours of A-'s, and I'll probably do an informal post-bac next year if I don't get in this cycle. That'd probably get me by a lot of screenings. That is, they'd at least have to peek at my app before tossing it in the bin. 😛

 

[flip26]

I'm thinking so.


Eh, screw SMP's. I can get my science GPA up over 3.0 with 6 hours of A's or 8 hours of A-'s, and I'll probably do an informal post-bac next year if I don't get in this cycle. That'd probably get me by a lot of screenings. That is, they'd at least have to peek at my app before tossing it in the bin. 😛

yeah, but some SMPs have linkages...good luck with whatever you do...

 

[BrainBuff]

Definitely, good luck !!!!!!!!!

 

[bozz]

I personally think GPA should be more important than MCAT... I mean this isn't law school we're applying to. Hard work > how fast you can think on a standardized test. But at top schools, MCAT simply ends up being more important... how else will they weed out people?

From looking at average scores at top schools, an AI of 19 seems to be the median (3.8 GPA science and nonscience + 35 MCAT).. meaning half of matriculants have <19 and half have >19

But ofcourse, this wouldn't work at extremes ..

Same AI (~20):

40 MCAT, 3.3 GPA science and nonscience vs. 37 MCAT, 3.8 GPA.. also ~ 20 AI

Who has the better chance? I think it's obvious.

 

[BrainBuff]

^^^ I basically agree with you

 

[flip26]

I personally think GPA should be more important than MCAT... I mean this isn't law school we're applying to. Hard work > how fast you can think on a standardized test. But at top schools, MCAT simply ends up being more important... how else will they weed out people?

From looking at average scores at top schools, an AI of 19 seems to be the median (3.8 GPA science and nonscience + 35 MCAT).. meaning half of matriculants have <19 and half have >19

But ofcourse, this wouldn't work at extremes ..

Same AI (~20):

40 MCAT, 3.3 GPA science and nonscience vs. 37 MCAT, 3.8 GPA.. also ~ 20 AI

Who has the better chance? I think it's obvious.

Obvious? I think it is "obvious" that the 37/3.8 has a much much better chance - is that what you think, too?

I ask because plenty of people on this thread think the higher MCAT example is the clear winner...

 

[bozz]

Obvious? I think it is "obvious" that the 37/3.8 has a much much better chance - is that what you think, too?

I ask because plenty of people on this thread think the higher MCAT example is the clear winner...

lol yeah, that's what I mean

 

[RoadRunner17]

I personally think GPA should be more important than MCAT... I mean this isn't law school we're applying to. Hard work > how fast you can think on a standardized test. But at top schools, MCAT simply ends up being more important... how else will they weed out people?

From looking at average scores at top schools, an AI of 19 seems to be the median (3.8 GPA science and nonscience + 35 MCAT).. meaning half of matriculants have <19 and half have >19

But ofcourse, this wouldn't work at extremes ..

Same AI (~20):

40 MCAT, 3.3 GPA science and nonscience vs. 37 MCAT, 3.8 GPA.. also ~ 20 AI

Who has the better chance? I think it's obvious.

I have to agree.. My AI is nearly 18, but I expect the application cycle ahead of me to be incredibly difficult due to my low GPA. What can I say?

 

[Vihsadas]

I personally think GPA should be more important than MCAT... I mean this isn't law school we're applying to. Hard work > how fast you can think on a standardized test. But at top schools, MCAT simply ends up being more important... how else will they weed out people?

From looking at average scores at top schools, an AI of 19 seems to be the median (3.8 GPA science and nonscience + 35 MCAT).. meaning half of matriculants have <19 and half have >19

But ofcourse, this wouldn't work at extremes ..

Same AI (~20):

40 MCAT, 3.3 GPA science and nonscience vs. 37 MCAT, 3.8 GPA.. also ~ 20 AI

Who has the better chance? I think it's obvious.

Hey wait a minute, just who exactly are you comparing? 😛

 

[pride4jc727]

From a test and measurement standpoint, I do not know how there can validity and reliability if the test material is a moving target. I mean, on any given test date, someone can get a heavy physics or heavy gen chem on the PS section and either genetics, cell bio, organic chem heavy on any given BS section. The only constant I see are the VR and WS. Couldn't there be a little more parallel forms of the test where there is an equal distribution of the test?

 

[dd128]

From a test and measurement standpoint, I do not know how there can validity and reliability if the test material is a moving target. I mean, on any given test date, someone can get a heavy physics or heavy gen chem on the PS section and either genetics, cell bio, organic chem heavy on any given BS section. The only constant I see are the VR and WS. Couldn't there be a little more parallel forms of the test where there is an equal distribution of the test?

I sort of agree with this. It always puzzled me a bit how the great leveling factor in the application process is based on tests that, sometimes, are pretty different. I understand that the test is heavily designed to test your reasoning skills, but the underlying content is just as important. I did my best to study all the material well, but the truth was that there were certain areas I was much more comfortable with than others, and I'm sure this is the case with many people. So it just ends up being partly a luck of the draw if you get a test that tests heavily on what you know well or that which you are not as comfortable. More so now than ever with the many CB versions per year

 

[bozz]

Hey wait a minute, just who exactly are you comparing? 😛

lol! noone I swear I was just trying to find scores that came out to the same AI

 

[Vihsadas]

lol! noone I swear I was just trying to find scores that came out to the same AI

Haha. All in good fun man. 🙂

 

[bozz]

From a test and measurement standpoint, I do not know how there can validity and reliability if the test material is a moving target. I mean, on any given test date, someone can get a heavy physics or heavy gen chem on the PS section and either genetics, cell bio, organic chem heavy on any given BS section. The only constant I see are the VR and WS. Couldn't there be a little more parallel forms of the test where there is an equal distribution of the test?

Sadly... I agree with that. You've just gotta take it until you get a format that fits you.