MCAT Is The Bigger Key To Acceptance.

[mfrizzo3]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Notice, I said "amazing GPA's" not amazing MCAT scores! And honestly, you picked a ridiculously high number. Do you really think a 37 gives you so much of a better chance than a 33 (all 11's) would have? At places like Harvard, perhaps, but your score is a dime a dozen at places like that anyway.

YES

 

[BrainBuff]

hmm, I have a question to you'all

So my GPA in UC Berkeley is around 3.4, never had a C, just Bs in upper division science classes, but the trend looks terrible, and my last semester I am taking most of the classes pass no pass (they are classes taken for fun, however).

If I applied like every other med student who are straight out of college to get into med school, my GPA would actually be around 3.7, my grade plummeted last year due to family situation, not a very good trend. It did pick up somewhat, and I have a recent MCAT score 35+

The thing is, my early years were strong, I had 4.0 in a lot of science classes taken in community college (transfer student), so my overall GPA adds up to 3.6, but I am guessing my effective GPA is between 3.4-3.6.

Basically, I have decent AI but HORRIBLE trend.

The problem I think is that you have several red flags. The community college classes are going to be frown upon and the fact that you are taking several classes pass/fail is not good either. Adcoms may get the impression that you are being lazy, and have chosen not to take a challenging course load. Med school is tuff and they want to make sure that one is able to handle the load.

Assuming your AI is in the ball park of 17-18 (strong applicants) that's just the typical med school applicant, so they will be looking closely at the rest of the stuff... You see what I mean?

 

[mfrizzo3]

I regret to tell you that you are dead wrong. I do not know which medical school adcoms you called, but they are certainly not in the business of spreading this information nor will they comment on what their individual schools "cut offs" are. How do you think that they compare the GPA and MCAt anyway? Do they take a 3.5 with 38 over a 4.0 with a 32? The Ai allows to put this info together giving the necessary weight to the MCAT which is what they think is fair.

YET he sais

Also, I did not pull this out of a hat. The source is an ivy League admission officer that does this for living. And mfrizzo3.......i would suggest that you get better "contacts" ....or more informed family......

 

[Handy388]

The problem I think is that you have several red flags. The community college classes are going to be frown upon and the fact that you are taking several classes pass/fail is not good either. Adcoms may get the impression that you are being lazy, and have chosen not to take a challenging course load. Med school is tuff and they want to make sure that one is able to handle the load.

Assuming your AI is in the ball park of 17-18 (strong applicants) that's just the typical med school applicant, so they will be looking closely at the rest of the stuff... You see what I mean?

I have finished my major already, and the classes I am taking are just for fun only. They are easy classes but I have no further diffcult classes to take. I've already took them last year.

I can't help with community college classes, I wasn't even in Berkeley when I took them.

my AI is actually 19 if I don't factor in the community college at all. Factor in community college add it by 0.3 ish.

 

[jult24er]

Is this a reasonable way to look at GPA vs MCAT?

This AI formula implies 1 MCAT point is worth .167 GPA.
LizzyM's score implies that 1 MCAT point is worth .1 GPA.

The SD for matricualted students' MCATs (2007) was 5.4. GPA SD was .26.

Does this mean adding 10.8 to your MCAT gets you from 15% probability acceptance to 85%, while adding .52 to your GPA does the same?

That would mean 1 MCAT point is worth .055 GPA.

I'm skeptical of all these formulas anyway because I would think differences mean less at the exteemes for both GPA and MCAT.

 

[BrainBuff]

EDIT,

And, it seems, the average MCAT section at Harvard is an 11-12. So half of the scores they took were lower. At some point with these scores, you just have to say "enough already!" On the computerized MCAT, we're only talking about a few questions once you get above a ten.

Average is not median gplex86. Half of the scores they took they were not necessary lower. The average is 11-12 for the year you are looking at. ( was it last year?) so obviously, that year they did not get as many 15s and maybe even took some 10s.

 

[mfrizzo3]

Here you go with the rest for that particular year:

First column is MCAT score, then PS, Bio, Verbal and Writing
11 9 % 5% 3 % 7 % (P)
12 33 % 27 % 21 % 19 % (R)
13 67 % 67 % 65 % 62 % (Q)
14 89 % 88 % 81 % 79 % (S)

No one with a 10

You are reading your chart wrong.

 

[BrainBuff]

I have finished my major already, and the classes I am taking are just for fun only. They are easy classes but I have no further diffcult classes to take. I've already took them last year.

I can't help with community college classes, I wasn't even in Berkeley when I took them.

my AI is actually 19.

Gotcha Handy. Like we all know, it takes a bunch of factors. I guess i would make sure to apply to schools that had an average AI lower than 19 so you can be more of a top applicant in those schools. Having your individual scores higher than the average they take will assure you of that.

 

[Handy388]

Gotcha Handy. Like we all know, it takes a bunch of factors. I guess i would make sure to apply to schools that had an average AI lower than 19 so you can be more of a top applicant in those schools. Having your individual scores higher than the average they take will assure you of that.

see, strategies matter a lot. Most people's GPA drop in diffcult major classes, but if those come at senior year and if you apply at junior year, you can go in (my GPA was around 3.8 at that point), and you don't leave gap like this that you can't possibly fill.

As of me, I just want to get in somewhere, don't really care where.

 

[BrainBuff]

Is this a reasonable way to look at GPA vs MCAT?

This AI formula implies 1 MCAT point is worth .167 GPA.
LizzyM's score implies that 1 MCAT point is worth .1 GPA.

The SD for matricualted students' MCATs (2007) was 5.4. GPA SD was .26.

Does this mean adding 10.8 to your MCAT gets you from 15% probability acceptance to 85%, while adding .52 to your GPA does the same?

That would mean 1 MCAT point is worth .055 GPA.

I'm skeptical of all these formulas anyway because I would think differences mean less at the exteemes for both GPA and MCAT.

The AI is one of the most hated indices and obviously not something schools advertise. There are several criticisms

1. Two-thirds of the formula is derived from standardized test scores and the SGPA and onlyone-third from the overall college GPA
2. The formula does not take into consideration class rank
3. The formula does not include the score for the MCAT essay, which is interpreted separately by the admissions committee
4. The formula counts an applicant's science performance twice, by including both the MCAT scores and the SGPA
5. The formula does not include graduate work that an applicant has completed

However, we need to look at the fact that for the adcoms, it is an instrument that makes easy to rank and screen the applicants allowing for a comparison that would be very difficult otherwise.

 

[BrainBuff]

see, strategies matter a lot. Most people's GPA drop in diffcult major classes, but if those come at senior year and if you apply at junior year, you can go in (my GPA was around 3.8 at that point), and you don't leave gap like this that you can't possibly fill.

As of me, I just want to get in somewhere, don't really care where.

Definitely, I agree with you !

 

[bozz]

You do realize those percentages are representative of people who scored below the corresponding score. It does not mean 89% people got a 14 in PS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHAHAHAHA

Rofl.. you're right. Those look like percentiles to me, not percentages! BIG difference.

And I like how he ignored how you pointed that out several times but addressed everyone elses comments

 

[Drogba]

I like how "BrainBuff" has made multiple posts without acknowledging the fact that he doesn't know how to read charts. Apparently 198% of Harvard's entering class scored between an 11 and a 14 on the PS.

 

[mfrizzo3]

And an AI of 4,982.20

 

[BrainBuff]

Rofl.. you're right. Those look like percentiles to me, not percentages! BIG difference.

And I like how he ignored how you pointed that out several times but addressed everyone elses comments

No, you are wrong. Those are percentages, not percentiles. I know the difference. BTW, the only reason I ignored the other poster is because of his ridiculous belligerent attitude. I realized i was wasting my time with him trying to have a clear discussion. I am only addressing it now because you brought it up.🙂

The chart represents a breakdown of acceptance rates per subject and per score.

Rather than make assumptions, that poster should have just asked to clarify the point. You should have done the same before you started laughing also. Let's keep it "grown up", please.

 

[mfrizzo3]

Here you go with the rest for that particular year:

First column is MCAT score, then PS, Bio, Verbal and Writing
11 9 % 5% 3 % 7 % (P)
12 33 % 27 % 21 % 19 % (R)
13 67 % 67 % 65 % 62 % (Q)
14 89 % 88 % 81 % 79 % (S)

No one with a 10

So 89% got a 14, 67% got a 13, 33% got a 12 and 9% got an 11.

that is 198%😕😱

 

[BrainBuff]

I like how "BrainBuff" has made multiple posts without acknowledging the fact that he doesn't know how to read charts. Apparently 198% of Harvard's entering class scored between an 11 and a 14 on the PS.

Wow. Amazing. I wonder why instead of asking about something that you find inconsistent because YOU can not interpret, you make this allegation. Obviously, I think you do not deserve an explanation. I am sure there will be some bright medical school applicant that gets it. Let's hope.

 

[mfrizzo3]

Dude, do not laugh so hard. Yes, those numbers are low for some schools. And no, I am not joking.

The typical medical school applicant has an AI of 17-18. That's strong, but not for the top schools. Then again there is some variability. What's Harvard 's admission rate? Around 4 % - 5%!!

In fact, a few of years ago the entering scores for that specific Harvard class were PS 15 ( 94% ) Bio 15 (95%) V 15 (91%). They did not take anyone with a single 10. Why is it difficult to see that a MCAT of 37 could be "low" for them ??

No, you are wrong. Those are percentages, not percentiles. I know the difference. BTW, the only reason I ignored the other poster is because of his ridiculous belligerent attitude. I realized i was wasting my time with him trying to have a clear discussion. I am only addressing it now because you brought it up.🙂

The chart represents a breakdown of acceptance rates per subject and per score.

Rather than make assumptions, that poster should have just asked to clarify the point. You should have done the same before you started laughing also. Let's keep it "grown up", please.

So which is it.

 

[bozz]

No, you are wrong. Those are percentages, not percentiles. I know the difference. BTW, the only reason I ignored the other poster is because of his ridiculous belligerent attitude. I realized i was wasting my time with him trying to have a clear discussion. I am only addressing it now because you brought it up.🙂

The chart represents a breakdown of acceptance rates per subject and per score.

Rather than make assumptions, that poster should have just asked to clarify the point. You should have done the same before you started laughing also. Let's keep it "grown up", please.

That's all fine but MSAR reports the median VR score to be a 11 and the sciences to be 12s. Explain that.

 

[Drogba]

Wow. Amazing. I wonder why instead of asking about something that you find inconsistent because YOU can not interpret, you make this allegation. Obviously, I think you do not deserve an explanation. I am sure there will be some bright medical school applicant that gets it. Let's hope.

Perhaps you can explain to me how a school with a 3-5% overall acceptance rate accepts 9% of the students who apply with an 11 in PS, 33% of students who apply with a 12 in PS etc.

The only amazing thing here is your dedication to trolling/spreading misinformation/making wild allegations.

 

[BrainBuff]

So 89% got a 14, 67% got a 13, 33% got a 12 and 9% got an 11.

that is 198%😕😱

Dude, you are forgetting the 15 which was 94%. That makes it a total of 292%. I see you are really confused. 😴

 

[BrainBuff]

That's all fine but MSAR reports the median VR score to be a 11 and the sciences to be 12s. Explain that.

First of all. What year are you talking about? They are all not the same, you know.??

 

[BrainBuff]

Perhaps you can explain to me how a school with a 3-5% overall acceptance rate accepts 9% of the students who apply with an 11 in PS, 33% of students who apply with a 12 in PS etc.

The only amazing thing here is your dedication to trolling/spreading misinformation/making wild allegations.

Alright, i will begin ignoring you too.🙂

 

[Drogba]

Alright, i will begin ignoring you too.🙂

Good strategy. Soon you can talk to yourself in a mirror. Then there will be no one to point out the illogicality of your statements.

 

[BrainBuff]

Good strategy. Soon you can talk to yourself in a mirror. Then there will be no one to point out the illogicality of your statements.

Naw, I will ignore you because of your name calling. Not interesting in discussing anything nor conversing with someone like that. Let's just move on.

 

[Drogba]

Naw, I will ignore you because of your name calling. Not interesting in discussing anything nor conversing with someone like that. Let's just move on.

You making ridiculous baseless claims is not a conversation, you chart-misinterpreter.

 

[mfrizzo3]

All accepted to Harvard and all have a 10 in at least one sub category. One person has an 8.



2005
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=2357

2004
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=1411

2003
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=413

2002
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=176
BrainBuff---Steeerike 3 you're outta here

 

[Handy388]

O the flames.

 

[Drogba]

I just wanted to add a couple of to my previous post, but decided to make a whole new post instead.

 

[BrainBuff]

When did www.mdapplicants.com became a source of reliable data?

 

[mfrizzo3]

When did www.mdapplicants.com became a source of reliable data?

The same time your crap did

 

[Arc]

When did www.mdapplicants.com became a source of reliable data?

MDApplicants is like Wikipedia. Take it with a grain of salt. Oh, and ever noticed how all the top med schools (i.e. Hopkins) only have acceptances from people who went to big name schools?


And one general thing about med schools that you guys seem to miss on is that adcoms seek people to be doctors. If you guys lack social skills, or can't write worth a damn, you should try to improve on that. It's more than just grades and test scores nowadays.

 

[ORTHO4ME]

i dont like this thread

 

[Arc]

I don't like half of the threads here, its usually somebody gloating about their first C, 3.8 is too low for admission, not getting to my dream school, etc.

 

[BrainBuff]

I really do not get it. Some of you may be in a little world there all of your own, maybe you are spending too much time over here at SDN ( I see that Drogba and I joined in the same month and he has already 3000 more posts than I do..) or you have developed a certain degree of paranoia and mistrust. Why would I be interested in providing false information and misrepresent anything at all?

I think that more than anything, you are showing how immature you really are. If every time you hear of something that you disagree with, do not understand or do not like to hear, you are going to jump in and behave this way, I feel really sorry for those you. You are not going to go very far in life.

I really could not care less if you believe any of what i said or not. Also, I really have nothing to gain by proving myself and my truths to some anonymous internet phantoms nor the need to do so. Do you people realize how silly that would be? Some of you have lost a tremendous opportunity of perhaps learning a few things and looking at a perspective that you may not have been familiar with. What a waste!

Good luck to everyone applying. Positive energy and karma your way!

Just remember, MCATS are heavily weighted. That was the point of the thread anyway

 

[mfrizzo3]

I really do not get it. Some of you may be in a little world there all of your own, maybe you are spending too much time over here at SDN ( I see that Drogba and I joined in the same month and he has already 3000 more posts than I do..) or you have developed a certain degree of paranoia and mistrust. Why would I be interested in providing false information and misrepresent anything at all?

I think that more than anything, you are showing how immature you really are. If every time you hear of something that you disagree with, do not understand or do not like to hear, you are going to jump in and behave this way, I feel really sorry for those you. You are not going to go very far in life.

I really could not care less if you believe any of what i said or not. Also, I really have nothing to gain by proving myself and my truths to some anonymous internet phantoms nor the need to do so. Do you people realize how silly that would be? Some of you have lost a tremendous opportunity of perhaps learning a few things and looking at a perspective that you may not have been familiar with. What a waste!

Good luck to everyone applying. Positive energy and karma your way!

Just remember, MCATS are heavily weighted. That was the point of the thread anyway

This ladies and gentlemen is the perfect post demonstrating the 9 stages of denial.

1. Simple Denial
2. Minimizing
3. Rationalizing
4. Generalizing
5. Blaming
6. Diversion
7. Bargaining
8. Passivity
9. Hostility

 

[Arc]

Good luck to everyone applying. Positive energy and karma your way!

Just remember, MCATS are heavily weighted. That was the point of the thread anyway

Not suprising considering there can be a variance on how a given school teaches a class. A standardized test is almost necessary for decisions.

 

[surfstarj]

Yes you can.

The reason we go through this process is not simply to show that we can. Trust me, things other than statistics are taken into account. In my opinion, these things do matter. Feel free to disagree, and I don't really want to argue about this.

whoa. nobody is saying stats are the only things being taken into account. The study is ONLY talking about stats so in regards to WHICH stats are more meaningful: ..(MCAT+GPA) > MCAT > GPA.


That is all the study says. What med schools DO with this info is their own business. But don't be naive and think the MCAT as a STANDARDIZED tool isn't a tad more useful than a highly variable GPA.



UGH!

obviously they take more than stats into account.

I HAD A 3.1 BCPM uGrad and a 35 R on the MCAT....I don't think the MCAT is the only thing that got me in. But you'd be a ***** to think it didn't save me from the auto-reject pile in more than one of the interviews I was offered.

 

[surfstarj]

That's right. I just slept for 8 hours...and this thread is still a denial fest.

 

[flip26]

MCATs above 35 or 36, while impressive, don't add much to an applicant's "chances" (notwithstanding number ***** schools like WUSTL and Michigan).

Similarly, GPAs above, say, 3.85 don't add much, either.

Adcoms look at GPA, and they look at MCAT, and they look at them together. A sub avg/median score in either one will not be bailed out by an above median score in the other. And the further below the median in either component, the less helpful an above average score in the other...

The problem with these formulas is that there is a straight line / additive value built in above these levels that I do not believe really makes as much difference as pre-meds think. The law of diminishing returns applies...

Your best chances - be at or preferably above the median in both GPA and MCAT at as many schools that you apply to as possible. That is a hard combination to beat, all else being equal, for increasing your chances at getting an admission somewhere.

 

[Maxprime]

How does this argument still come up every week? If you honestly think that one matters so much more than the other, how would we have not seen this by now? There are great test cases (Me, Vishadas, etc.) that show there is no favored index. We have the same MCAT and he has a higher GPA, but overall if MCAT was so highly valued then why aren't we both on dean's scholarship @ UCSF?

MCATs above 35 or 36, while impressive, don't add much to an applicant's "chances" (notwithstanding number ***** schools like WUSTL and Michigan).

As for the whole "once you're above 33/35/whatever it doesn't matter" - that's a load of crap. All of my open file interviewers made a big deal of my score and a good number of them asked me how I studied for it, why I thought I did well, etc. I even had one say something along the lines of "I've seen 35s and 36s, but haven't interviewed an applicant that broke 40 in a year or two."

The problem with these formulas is that there is a straight line / additive value built in above these levels that I do not believe really makes as much difference as pre-meds think. The law of diminishing returns applies...

There are diminishing returns, however that is very different than near-zero returns. At the same time, would the difference between a 30 and a 31 really sway your mind that much? That's basic human psychology, small differences in numbers that we see all the time aren't that impressive.

Your best chances - be at or preferably above the median in both GPA and MCAT at as many schools that you apply to as possible.

If only someone had reached this conclusion a few pages ago . . . or a few threads ago. Apparently, both matter near equally . . . as schools freely admit.

 

[Dazedinvt]

I don't read a lot of the posts so if this was said, sorry.

Mcat is a better predictor of how you will do in medical school and on the first set of boards than GPA. I was really surprised by that, but it would lend support to the idea that schools weigh MCAT heavily at least to a certain point.

I have no idea how committees do anything and frankly my dears I don't give a damn.

 

[flip26]

As for the whole "once you're above 33/35/whatever it doesn't matter" - that's a load of crap. All of my open file interviewers made a big deal of my score and a good number of them asked me how I studied for it, why I thought I did well, etc. I even had one say something along the lines of "I've seen 35s and 36s, but haven't interviewed an applicant that broke 40 in a year or two."

Since you quoted me, I carefully did not say that anything above a 35 or 36 - I said nothing about a 33, BTW - doesn't matter at all, just that it doesn't matter as much as pre-meds believe (I used the phrase "don't add much to an applicant's chances <of admission>").

And most importantly, a high MCAT does not make up for a low GPA, as your example of 1 acceptance out of 23 schools seems to confirm, no?

 

[patiencebites]

there was a thread on pre-allo on how adcoms screen. they made the analogy with dating. high gpa = beautiful face; high mcat = hot body 😀

anyone have a link to it?

Great. I'm an academic butterface.

 

[patiencebites]

This ladies and gentlemen is the perfect post demonstrating the 9 stages of denial.

1. Simple Denial
2. Minimizing
3. Rationalizing
4. Generalizing
5. Blaming
6. Diversion
7. Bargaining
8. Passivity
9. Hostility

Interesting thing? In skimming over that list, my brain pulled the word "glamorizing" out of it. (prob a portmanteau of 4-7).

Anyway, that is exactly the way I will be handling my increasingly real rejection. Rejection is awesome! My suffering is so noble and interesting!

 

[Caliapplicant]

ineresting indeed!

 

[bodonid]

whoa. nobody is saying stats are the only things being taken into account. The study is ONLY talking about stats so in regards to WHICH stats are more meaningful: ..(MCAT+GPA) > MCAT > GPA.

My post was in response to someone who seemed to think that ECs and interview scores were "unscalable" and thus "unreliable data". I wasn't making a blanket statement, and I don't really even care about the original topic of the thread. Don't "ugh" me.

 

[surfstarj]

My post was in response to someone who seemed to think that ECs and interview scores were "unscalable" and thus "unreliable data". I wasn't making a blanket statement, and I don't really even care about the original topic of the thread. Don't "ugh" me.

Dude, if you don't care about the thread topic, don't post on the thread.


UGH. Pokemon.

 

[bodonid]

Dude, if you don't care about the thread topic, don't post on the thread.


UGH. Pokemon.

😀

 

[Handy388]

My post was in response to someone who seemed to think that ECs and interview scores were "unscalable" and thus "unreliable data". I wasn't making a blanket statement, and I don't really even care about the original topic of the thread. Don't "ugh" me.

unscalable does not translate to unreliable data, don't put word in my mouth.