Dismiss Notice

Interview Feedback: Visit Interview Feedback to view and submit interview information.

Interviewing Masterclass: Free masterclass on interviewing from SDN and Medical College of Georgia

Dismiss Notice
Hey Texans—join us for a DFW meetup! Click here to learn more.

MCAT Verbal predict Boards?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by lilTXcatMD, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. lilTXcatMD

    lilTXcatMD Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I've heard that the best predictor of one's board scores is verbal score from the MCAT? Any truth to it?
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. mcnugget

    mcnugget Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0

    I've heard that how much food you eat is a predictor of how fat you are?

    standardized tests are ALL interrelated in some way, shape, or form.
     
  4. lilTXcatMD

    lilTXcatMD Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    ya no joke -- thanks for the sarcasm. seriously though, i've heard that adcoms look more so at your verbal score than bio/phys because of the analytical skills needed to do the verbal passages. i was just wondering if anyone knows if this is factual ...
     
  5. lilTXcatMD

    lilTXcatMD Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    double post
     
  6. lilTXcatMD

    lilTXcatMD Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    triple post?
     
  7. Jwax

    Jwax Just a minor variation
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    9
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Since no one else is saying anything, I figured I'd throw in my two cents. I have also heard that adcom's look at your verbal score the closest b/c of it showing your analytical skills. I don't actually know how true this is though. Perhaps I'll ask a doc I know on the OU adcom tomorrow & I'll post again. I certainly hope they look at verbal more than bio/phys! I :love: Verbal!
     
  8. Dakota

    Dakota Senior Member
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    121
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I haven't seen any really good data correlating verbal score with USMLE anymore than overall score correlating with USMLE . .. having said that while interviewing at one school my interviewer said in general they look at MCAT score, especially the verbal section, as a predictor of academic success during medical school.
     
  9. wildcatbio06

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I've heard this as well but only from other pre-meds. I certainly hope it is true but from the third and fourth years I've talked too it is a bunch of bull. Apparently step I's aren't anything like the MCATs but maybe some of the current med students that sometimes peruse these pages can comment on this.
     
  10. MollyMalone

    MollyMalone I'm a Score Quadruplet
    Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,796
    Likes Received:
    20
    I did a casual lit search on this the last time it came up and was surprised to find nothing to support this in the medical education journals. If anyone has a link to an article where this idea is substantiated, I'd love to see it. (I'd also love for it to be true... I :love: verbal, too!)
     
  11. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Final Countdown
    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    15,489
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
  12. MollyMalone

    MollyMalone I'm a Score Quadruplet
    Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,796
    Likes Received:
    20
    Of course, that's just the abstracts, but what I read seems to indicate that bio and physcial sciences are better predictors than verbal. Most of the studies don't break it down by section (at least, not in the abstracts).
     
  13. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Final Countdown
    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    15,489
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Im sure you can find the articles through PubMed or something like that if you want the full articles.

    I don't know if verbal is a better predictor. I was just pointing the OP to the comprehensive list of research on the MCAT.
     
  14. i can kinda see why high vr would be correlated to passing boards, because it shows you comprehend the material you've learned... but at the same time, ps and bs are also passage based... and since the first 2 years of med school is basic science i would think ps and bs would be just as important.

    just my 2 cents
     
  15. swifteagle43

    swifteagle43 Lover- not a fighter
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    2
  16. i was just browsing through pubmed (search "mcat board predictor") and it looks like there's no single statistically significant factor. but i thought this was interesting:

    "The largest multiple correlations were found between averaged scores on the NBME subject examinations and undergraduate GPAs (R = 34.20; F = 16.79; p = .0001) and scores on the MCAT Biology Knowledge (R = 13.24; F = 47.64; p = .0001), MCAT Chemistry Knowledge (R = 7.86; F = 17.39; p = .0001), and MCAT Skills Analysis: Quantitative (R = 1.39; F = 3.93; p = .0479). "

    Acad Med. 1995 Jan;70(1):59-63.

    this is obviously from a group that took an older version of the mcat, MCAT "skills analysis" doesn't exist for us.
     
  17. unicorn06

    unicorn06 Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0

    I've head two different stories.

    1. All sections are given equal weight
    2. The verbal is seen as LEAST important

    However, none of these come from extremely reputable sources and are just rumor/online info
     
  18. argonana

    argonana SDN Donor
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was just looking through the md app profiles of last year's acceptees at a top 10...most of them had VR scores of 10 or 11 (2-3 points lower than their scores in the other two sections). Just a random observation that makes me feel better about my own VR score... :D
     
  19. Jwax

    Jwax Just a minor variation
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    9
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]

    I've noticed that trend, too. That would probably point to verbal being viewed as least important. That trend isn't just for the top 10 schools, it is for most of them. Most schools have BS/PS scores that are higher than VR. Eh :rolleyes:
     
  20. sanche60

    sanche60 Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I think thats because the verbal section has a bit steeper curve. An 11 in verbal is 94.6 percentile(2005 scores) whereas an 11 in bio or phys is 90.1 and 91.2 respectively. Basically a 11 in verbal is comparable to a 12 in bio or phys. Also if you look at all standardized tests(GRE ACT MCAT LSAT etc.), the one section thats on all of them is verbal or reading comprehension which suggests its a pretty important indicator of ability. Thats my opinion though, I dont know anyone on an adcom. If you look at the link brett bachelor gave one of the studies said something specifically about verbal being the best indicator of success on later examinations for medical students.
     
  21. MollyMalone

    MollyMalone I'm a Score Quadruplet
    Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,796
    Likes Received:
    20
    Which one said that?
     
  22. SeventhSon

    SeventhSon SIMMER DOWN
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    0
    MDApps:
    Status:
    MD/PhD Student
    multiple MSTP adcoms have told me that verbal is the least important
     
  23. speranza

    speranza Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I know that the director of admissions at my state school explicitly told us that the adcom puts more weight on the verbal score than the other sections. He also said the verbal score was most correlated with success in med school, but I can't remember if he mentioned the boards specifically. But obviously some schools may look at all three scores equally.
     
  24. Dakota

    Dakota Senior Member
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    121
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Exactly, the standard deviation tends to be much smaller for the verbal section than for bio and phys, thus you have fewer people toward the tails, more people bunched in the middle. It would therefore make sense that verbal scores would not be as high at the top schools and also not as low at lower ranked schools.
     
  25. argonana

    argonana SDN Donor
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, this is exactly what I was suspecting. I rarely see VR scores of 13-15. I think a couple years ago, if you got over a "12" on VR, you just got the top score, right?

    Anyway, I have also heard that MSTPs care the least about VR scores. Perhaps some of the research-heavy MD programs also care more about the science scores...who knows.
     
  26. EvoDevo

    EvoDevo Forging a Different Path
    Moderator Emeritus 15+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    20,369
    Likes Received:
    23
    Status:
    Attending Physician
  27. 45408

    45408 aw buddy
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2004
    Messages:
    16,976
    Likes Received:
    43
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Next time, just delete your posts.


    edit - dang, when did they remove that option? I thought I'd double check to see if there was a reason you didn't delete, and sure enough, it's gone.
     
  28. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Final Countdown
    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    15,489
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    You have to be an angel or donor now.
     
  29. Twitch

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Medical Student
    If you look at the questions on the various USMLE step exams the fact that you can excel in getting the tone of the author won't do squat for you if you don't know what (e.g.) taxol does. Moreover, if your reading comprehension sucks its likely to show in your BS score.

    Another thing to consider when you look at the results of the various studies (on Academic Medicine, et al) - look at who does the research not just what the results say. So would it suprise you that people associated with the MCAT come out with a result (based on years of research) that says Ugpa is a far better predictor than *our* lowly test? :laugh:

    Finally, look at some of the high scores that some FMGs get on the step. I'm not saying there is no correlation of VR with step but that there are other sections that may be a better predictor.

    If I was picking students, I wouldn't put my money on VR (by itself).
     
  30. dr4ku

    dr4ku Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Just from personal experience. I got a 7 verbal my 1st time. Didn't think I needed to study for something that my undergrad was...basically in. Liberal Arts. Anyway...took it again and studied for it. 11. whereas..continued study in the other 2 areas only increased my score 2 pts and 1 pt.

    Also, I've heard that the verbal section is a skill that you fine tune with practice. I wld therefore disagree.
     
  31. sanford_w/o_son

    sanford_w/o_son locl jnky-gota thred man?
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    1
    there's an important distinction to make here, in terms of what we're asking:

    1) Do verbal scores IN FACT have a higher correlation with USMLE scores than the BS or PS scores?

    2) What are adcoms BELIEFS about the relative correlations between USMLE scores and scores from each of the three MCAT sections?

    I'm skeptical to believe that adcoms always believe (let alone are aware of) what the research shows.

    Folks seem to be talking past each other by addressing one or the other question. Those who are interested in how they will do on the USMLE address 1), while those who are interested in how they will do in admissions address 2).
     
  32. TheMightyAngus

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    5
    Status:
    Medical Student
    When people claim that verbal score correlates to "USMLE pass rate", they usually mean either:

    1) The higher you score on VR, the higher your chances of passing USMLE Step I.
    2) Med students who scored higher than 9V, are more likely to pass Step I than those scoring below. With little deviation between those scoring above 9V. (I just picked 9V b/c it seems that's where many adcoms start their cutoffs).

    Is there any evidence showing a direct correlation with VR score and Step I score, i.e. people who score 13V have higher board scores than those with 11V?
     
  33. MDDM

    MDDM Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
  34. 45408

    45408 aw buddy
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2004
    Messages:
    16,976
    Likes Received:
    43
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    That's silly. I understand making certain features "premium" but deleting your posts should be publicly available. :rolleyes:
     

Share This Page