MCAT Verbal predict Boards?

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lilTXcatMD

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I've heard that the best predictor of one's board scores is verbal score from the MCAT? Any truth to it?

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lilTXcatMD said:
I've heard that the best predictor of one's board scores is verbal score from the MCAT? Any truth to it?


I've heard that how much food you eat is a predictor of how fat you are?

standardized tests are ALL interrelated in some way, shape, or form.
 
mcnugget said:
I've heard that how much food you eat is a predictor of how fat you are?

standardized tests are ALL interrelated in some way, shape, or form.

ya no joke -- thanks for the sarcasm. seriously though, i've heard that adcoms look more so at your verbal score than bio/phys because of the analytical skills needed to do the verbal passages. i was just wondering if anyone knows if this is factual ...
 
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Since no one else is saying anything, I figured I'd throw in my two cents. I have also heard that adcom's look at your verbal score the closest b/c of it showing your analytical skills. I don't actually know how true this is though. Perhaps I'll ask a doc I know on the OU adcom tomorrow & I'll post again. I certainly hope they look at verbal more than bio/phys! I :love: Verbal!
 
I haven't seen any really good data correlating verbal score with USMLE anymore than overall score correlating with USMLE . .. having said that while interviewing at one school my interviewer said in general they look at MCAT score, especially the verbal section, as a predictor of academic success during medical school.
 
I've heard this as well but only from other pre-meds. I certainly hope it is true but from the third and fourth years I've talked too it is a bunch of bull. Apparently step I's aren't anything like the MCATs but maybe some of the current med students that sometimes peruse these pages can comment on this.
 
I did a casual lit search on this the last time it came up and was surprised to find nothing to support this in the medical education journals. If anyone has a link to an article where this idea is substantiated, I'd love to see it. (I'd also love for it to be true... I :love: verbal, too!)
 
BrettBatchelor said:

Of course, that's just the abstracts, but what I read seems to indicate that bio and physcial sciences are better predictors than verbal. Most of the studies don't break it down by section (at least, not in the abstracts).
 
Im sure you can find the articles through PubMed or something like that if you want the full articles.

I don't know if verbal is a better predictor. I was just pointing the OP to the comprehensive list of research on the MCAT.
 
i can kinda see why high vr would be correlated to passing boards, because it shows you comprehend the material you've learned... but at the same time, ps and bs are also passage based... and since the first 2 years of med school is basic science i would think ps and bs would be just as important.

just my 2 cents
 
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BrettBatchelor said:
Im sure you can find the articles through PubMed or something like that if you want the full articles.

I don't know if verbal is a better predictor. I was just pointing the OP to the comprehensive list of research on the MCAT.

i was just browsing through pubmed (search "mcat board predictor") and it looks like there's no single statistically significant factor. but i thought this was interesting:

"The largest multiple correlations were found between averaged scores on the NBME subject examinations and undergraduate GPAs (R = 34.20; F = 16.79; p = .0001) and scores on the MCAT Biology Knowledge (R = 13.24; F = 47.64; p = .0001), MCAT Chemistry Knowledge (R = 7.86; F = 17.39; p = .0001), and MCAT Skills Analysis: Quantitative (R = 1.39; F = 3.93; p = .0479). "

Acad Med. 1995 Jan;70(1):59-63.

this is obviously from a group that took an older version of the mcat, MCAT "skills analysis" doesn't exist for us.
 
lilTXcatMD said:
ya no joke -- thanks for the sarcasm. seriously though, i've heard that adcoms look more so at your verbal score than bio/phys because of the analytical skills needed to do the verbal passages. i was just wondering if anyone knows if this is factual ...


I've head two different stories.

1. All sections are given equal weight
2. The verbal is seen as LEAST important

However, none of these come from extremely reputable sources and are just rumor/online info
 
Jwax said:
Since no one else is saying anything, I figured I'd throw in my two cents. I have also heard that adcom's look at your verbal score the closest b/c of it showing your analytical skills. I don't actually know how true this is though. Perhaps I'll ask a doc I know on the OU adcom tomorrow & I'll post again. I certainly hope they look at verbal more than bio/phys! I :love: Verbal!

I was just looking through the md app profiles of last year's acceptees at a top 10...most of them had VR scores of 10 or 11 (2-3 points lower than their scores in the other two sections). Just a random observation that makes me feel better about my own VR score... :D
 
argonana said:
I was just looking through the md app profiles of last year's acceptees at a top 10...most of them had VR scores of 10 or 11 (2-3 points lower than their scores in the other two sections). Just a random observation that makes me feel better about my own VR score... :D


I've noticed that trend, too. That would probably point to verbal being viewed as least important. That trend isn't just for the top 10 schools, it is for most of them. Most schools have BS/PS scores that are higher than VR. Eh :rolleyes:
 
argonana said:
I was just looking through the md app profiles of last year's acceptees at a top 10...most of them had VR scores of 10 or 11 (2-3 points lower than their scores in the other two sections). Just a random observation that makes me feel better about my own VR score... :D

I think thats because the verbal section has a bit steeper curve. An 11 in verbal is 94.6 percentile(2005 scores) whereas an 11 in bio or phys is 90.1 and 91.2 respectively. Basically a 11 in verbal is comparable to a 12 in bio or phys. Also if you look at all standardized tests(GRE ACT MCAT LSAT etc.), the one section thats on all of them is verbal or reading comprehension which suggests its a pretty important indicator of ability. Thats my opinion though, I dont know anyone on an adcom. If you look at the link brett bachelor gave one of the studies said something specifically about verbal being the best indicator of success on later examinations for medical students.
 
sanche60 said:
I think thats because the verbal section has a bit steeper curve. An 11 in verbal is 94.6 percentile(2005 scores) whereas an 11 in bio or phys is 90.1 and 91.2 respectively. Basically a 11 in verbal is comparable to a 12 in bio or phys. Also if you look at all standardized tests(GRE ACT MCAT LSAT etc.), the one section thats on all of them is verbal or reading comprehension which suggests its a pretty important indicator of ability. Thats my opinion though, I dont know anyone on an adcom. If you look at the link brett bachelor gave one of the studies said something specifically about verbal being the best indicator of success on later examinations for medical students.

Which one said that?
 
multiple MSTP adcoms have told me that verbal is the least important
 
Well, I know that the director of admissions at my state school explicitly told us that the adcom puts more weight on the verbal score than the other sections. He also said the verbal score was most correlated with success in med school, but I can't remember if he mentioned the boards specifically. But obviously some schools may look at all three scores equally.
 
sanche60 said:
I think thats because the verbal section has a bit steeper curve. An 11 in verbal is 94.6 percentile(2005 scores) whereas an 11 in bio or phys is 90.1 and 91.2 respectively. Basically a 11 in verbal is comparable to a 12 in bio or phys. Also if you look at all standardized tests(GRE ACT MCAT LSAT etc.), the one section thats on all of them is verbal or reading comprehension which suggests its a pretty important indicator of ability. Thats my opinion though, I dont know anyone on an adcom. If you look at the link brett bachelor gave one of the studies said something specifically about verbal being the best indicator of success on later examinations for medical students.

Exactly, the standard deviation tends to be much smaller for the verbal section than for bio and phys, thus you have fewer people toward the tails, more people bunched in the middle. It would therefore make sense that verbal scores would not be as high at the top schools and also not as low at lower ranked schools.
 
sanche60 said:
I think thats because the verbal section has a bit steeper curve. An 11 in verbal is 94.6 percentile(2005 scores) whereas an 11 in bio or phys is 90.1 and 91.2 respectively. Basically a 11 in verbal is comparable to a 12 in bio or phys. Also if you look at all standardized tests(GRE ACT MCAT LSAT etc.), the one section thats on all of them is verbal or reading comprehension which suggests its a pretty important indicator of ability. Thats my opinion though, I dont know anyone on an adcom. If you look at the link brett bachelor gave one of the studies said something specifically about verbal being the best indicator of success on later examinations for medical students.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was suspecting. I rarely see VR scores of 13-15. I think a couple years ago, if you got over a "12" on VR, you just got the top score, right?

Anyway, I have also heard that MSTPs care the least about VR scores. Perhaps some of the research-heavy MD programs also care more about the science scores...who knows.
 
lilTXcatMD said:
triple post?
Next time, just delete your posts.


edit - dang, when did they remove that option? I thought I'd double check to see if there was a reason you didn't delete, and sure enough, it's gone.
 
TheProwler said:
Next time, just delete your posts.


edit - dang, when did they remove that option? I thought I'd double check to see if there was a reason you didn't delete, and sure enough, it's gone.
You have to be an angel or donor now.
 
If you look at the questions on the various USMLE step exams the fact that you can excel in getting the tone of the author won't do squat for you if you don't know what (e.g.) taxol does. Moreover, if your reading comprehension sucks its likely to show in your BS score.

Another thing to consider when you look at the results of the various studies (on Academic Medicine, et al) - look at who does the research not just what the results say. So would it suprise you that people associated with the MCAT come out with a result (based on years of research) that says Ugpa is a far better predictor than *our* lowly test? :laugh:

Finally, look at some of the high scores that some FMGs get on the step. I'm not saying there is no correlation of VR with step but that there are other sections that may be a better predictor.

If I was picking students, I wouldn't put my money on VR (by itself).
 
lilTXcatMD said:
I've heard that the best predictor of one's board scores is verbal score from the MCAT? Any truth to it?

Just from personal experience. I got a 7 verbal my 1st time. Didn't think I needed to study for something that my undergrad was...basically in. Liberal Arts. Anyway...took it again and studied for it. 11. whereas..continued study in the other 2 areas only increased my score 2 pts and 1 pt.

Also, I've heard that the verbal section is a skill that you fine tune with practice. I wld therefore disagree.
 
there's an important distinction to make here, in terms of what we're asking:

1) Do verbal scores IN FACT have a higher correlation with USMLE scores than the BS or PS scores?

2) What are adcoms BELIEFS about the relative correlations between USMLE scores and scores from each of the three MCAT sections?

I'm skeptical to believe that adcoms always believe (let alone are aware of) what the research shows.

Folks seem to be talking past each other by addressing one or the other question. Those who are interested in how they will do on the USMLE address 1), while those who are interested in how they will do in admissions address 2).
 
When people claim that verbal score correlates to "USMLE pass rate", they usually mean either:

1) The higher you score on VR, the higher your chances of passing USMLE Step I.
2) Med students who scored higher than 9V, are more likely to pass Step I than those scoring below. With little deviation between those scoring above 9V. (I just picked 9V b/c it seems that's where many adcoms start their cutoffs).

Is there any evidence showing a direct correlation with VR score and Step I score, i.e. people who score 13V have higher board scores than those with 11V?
 
BrettBatchelor said:
You have to be an angel or donor now.
That's silly. I understand making certain features "premium" but deleting your posts should be publicly available. :rolleyes:
 
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