McGill or Harvard??? Help me decide!

[bill82828]

I just got an acceptance call from Harvard this morning and am having a hard time trying to decide between Harvard and McGill. I wasn't expecting to get into Harvard since I applied so late so I already accepted McGill's offer and put down a $2000 deposit. But I am not worried over losing the deposit money, I just want to make the right decision and not regret it! So help me out, what would you guys do? I'm pretty sure I want to specialize so Harvard is a good choice, but I also might want to stay in Canada after I graduate....

hmm.....

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[UJ007]

dude its harvard! What more reason do you need? Plus it gets awfuly cold in Montreal

 

[amichail]

Correct me if I'm wrong... Harvard doesn't even have deposits... burn the 2gs and go to boston, with your intent to specialize, (pending on your effort) you'll be a shoe in!
However it is YOUR decision to make, I have only found it to further confuse me whenever I ask these kinds of questions here! good luck in whatever you decide. and congratulations!

 

[prez_al]

I'd go to Harvard... but if you want to one day tell crazy dental school stories, I would pick McGill. Also if you want to specialize, most likely you would have to specialize in the states anyway. Licensing isn't a problem as the Canadian licensing test is easier than the NERB.

 

[Dauber]

If you want to stay in Canada, do McGill. Specializing doesn't hinge on going to a school with "high" specialization rates, it hinges on the student trying to do so. $2000 is a lot to burn.

 

[ananda]

Are you really asking this question?? HARVARD.... forget about the $2000, you are one of the few who will be able to say I graduated from Harvard Dental.
Don't let the chance go by.

 

[dizzle23x]

i don't see the hype about harvard. i'd go to mcgill hands down. it's sooo cheap and if you want to stay in canada it's a good choice. plus, montreal is sweet, not that you'll get a chance to go out. harvard an boston are way expensive and if you want to specialize you'll probably have to bust ass no matter where you go.

 

[Dauber]

i don't see the hype about harvard. i'd go to mcgill hands down. it's sooo cheap and if you want to stay in canada it's a good choice. plus, montreal is sweet, not that you'll get a chance to go out. harvard an boston are way expensive and if you want to specialize you'll probably have to bust ass no matter where you go.

I think predents just cream their pants cause of the name "Harvard." Any dental student/dentist will tell you that names don't mean ****.

 

[tamkhan]

harvard, man. mcgill is a pretty good dental school; but, harvard is where you wanna be if you wish to specialize later on.

 

[Gsman]

I think predents just cream their pants cause of the name "Harvard." Any dental student/dentist will tell you that names don't mean ****.

I have a hard time believing that it makes no difference.

i think there will be SOME pts and SOME Doctors that WILL know the ivy leagues and will give an ivy grad some advantages....esp the elite class.

In a place where dentists arnt really a shortage, people do rely on certain things to place rank. we are in a late capitalist society so its all about getting to number one. If you apply for a job as an associate, what do you think they look at before they hire you? what CAN they look at...im guessing the institution in which you attained your degree.

In the, i think we can never know if one will be more successful graduating from Harvard or from mcgill. Maybe you find mcgill's learning style more suitable for you.

I have a similar decision between Upenn and UofT so i am beginning to think...and its such a tough decision.

 

[Dauber]

I have a hard time believing that it makes no difference.

i think there will be SOME pts and SOME Doctors that WILL know the ivy leagues and will give an ivy grad some advantages....esp the elite class.

In a place where dentists arnt really a shortage, people do rely on certain things to place rank. we are in a late capitalist society so its all about getting to number one. If you apply for a job as an associate, what do you think they look at before they hire you? what CAN they look at...im guessing the institution in which you attained your degree.

In the, i think we can never know if one will be more successful graduating from Harvard or from mcgill. Maybe you find mcgill's learning style more suitable for you.

I have a similar decision between Upenn and UofT so i am beginning to think...and its such a tough decision.

Well, fair enough. I dont' believe dentists are a surplus, however, if the job/residency is extremely high profile and competitive, then I'm sure having an Ivy on your degree would be a plus. However I think that advantage is negligable except for in the tightest of circumstances and should be the least of the priorities on the list to consider when deciding what school to attend.

 

[UJ007]

I think predents just cream their pants cause of the name "Harvard." Any dental student/dentist will tell you that names don't mean ****.

Everyone has to write the same boards so what school you go to really doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what school suits you and what you want to do after. I think your patients will be very impressed that you went to Harvard and not some other non-ivy school and thats all.

 

[crazy_sherm]

Congrats on getting into two top schools. I would definitely pick McGill over Harvard. McGill is an awesome school and way harder to get into than Harvard. You'll also save a ton of money by attending McGill and it'll make more sense to stay in Canada if you plan on practicing there. There's no reason why you wouldn't be able to specialize going to McGill, and it's not a guaranteed deal by going to Harvard. It still comes down to hard work and being pretty talented. Plus, what if you change your mind or decide you want to work a little bit before entering a residency program? If you would to finish school with anything resembling handskills, don't go to Harvard.

 

[collegeboy30000]

i don't see the hype about harvard...

I think predents just cream their pants cause of the name "Harvard." .....

............

Have you considered how much tail you'll get if you graduate from Harvard?

I'd say "Ve-ri-tas". Whatever argument that some throws about the other school will be valid. But c'mon its "Haaavard" , 35 students, a beautiful city[Boston],and $244K is NOT alot of money for a dental education.

 

[dizzle23x]

I have a hard time believing that it makes no difference.

i think there will be SOME pts and SOME Doctors that WILL know the ivy leagues and will give an ivy grad some advantages....esp the elite class.

In a place where dentists arnt really a shortage, people do rely on certain things to place rank. we are in a late capitalist society so its all about getting to number one. If you apply for a job as an associate, what do you think they look at before they hire you? what CAN they look at...im guessing the institution in which you attained your degree.

In the, i think we can never know if one will be more successful graduating from Harvard or from mcgill. Maybe you find mcgill's learning style more suitable for you.

I have a similar decision between Upenn and UofT so i am beginning to think...and its such a tough decision.

and I'M guessing they can look at how fast you can do a procedure i.e. how much money you will make them..

 

[dizzle23x]

Have you considered how much tail you'll get if you graduate from Harvard?

I'd say "Ve-ri-tas". Whatever argument that some throws about the other school will be valid. But c'mon its "Haaavard" , 35 students, a beautiful city[Boston],and $244K is NOT alot of money for a dental education.

$244k IS a lot of money to pay for a dental education when you can get one for $30K. Do you have $214K sitting around? Maybe you can pay for my dental education. Also, if you've ever been to Montreal you'll know that it's an amazing city

 

[gryffindor]

I worked with some McGill grads (who all went on the specialize later, btw) when I was in NY. From what they said, it sounded like their school had a similar set up like Harvard. They took all their classes with the med students the first 2 years, had no class rank, and very small class size. Their clinical years sounded pretty cushy as well - sounded like they did almost no labwork. The only difference it seemed was that since McGill is in Canada, there was no pressure to have to do well on the NBDE I since it's not required in Canada. But if you knew you wanted to take the NBDE to try and specialize in the US later on, you could be prepared for the possibility early on.

If McGill is going to be significantly cheaper ($30K?!?!!!) and you are paying for everything with loans, then go where you will have less debt. Tuition can be outrageous for many specialty programs as well. The amount of debt you accumulate during school + residency will affect how much you will want to take on when you have to buy a practice after graduation which is where your real income will come from.

Patients never care where you went to school. Anywhere I have worked, they just assumed I went to the local dental school until I said otherwise. If you are looking to get a job working for a dentist (an "associate"), they want to see that you are nice to you patients, can give a painless injection and can do the procedure with efficiency and accuracy. They don't care if you can recite the Kreb's cycle.

 

[collegeboy30000]

....

Go see a psychologist.

 

[sidewalkman]

McGill's still a really good name and it's a lot cheaper. Go there.

 

[dizzle23x]

Go see a psychologist.

umm...okay then...

seriously dude, just cause you're going to "columbia" (this is where people are supposed to go "ooooooo" and "aaahhhh", right?) you might think that the name of your school really matters. sorry, welcome to the real world where no one cares and where a dentist that i shadowed who went to penn had his degree collecting dust in his storage closet. so when you're paying off your loans at $2,500/month and the next guy is paying a few hundred, i hope you can proudly wear your ivy-league hoodie around so everyone knows how awesome you really are.

 

[Dauber]

welcome to the real world where no one cares and where a dentist that i shadowed who went to penn had his degree collecting dust in his storage closet. so when you're paying off your loans at $2,500/month and the next guy is paying a few hundred, i hope you can proudly wear your ivy-league hoodie around so everyone knows how awesome you really are.

Haha no kidding. The only people that seriously care about what school is on the degree are predental students. I doubt seriously that you're going to get difference in education worth 214K; think of the interest you pay on that and the costs of operation. If you chose the expensive option, by that much money, for prestige then you might as well have that ivy-league hoodie say "jackass." Now that not to say you go to the expensive one because it's a fantastic fit, which would be legit... however if you have to ask the opinion of others, then the desire/fit must not be that great... Do the option that will enable you to do the most as a dentist. That is the point, isn't it?

Alright, i think i've got my 2 cents in; i'll stop... maybe even get back to work

 

[collegeboy30000]

umm...okay then...

seriously dude, just cause you're going to "columbia" (this is where people are supposed to go "ooooooo" and "aaahhhh", right?) you might think that the name of your school really matters. sorry, welcome to the real world where no one cares and where a dentist that i shadowed who went to penn had his degree collecting dust in his storage closet. so when you're paying off your loans at $2,500/month and the next guy is paying a few hundred, i hope you can proudly wear your ivy-league hoodie around so everyone knows how awesome you really are.

"hate, hate, hate", I can tell you were sooo angry.

AND if school name does not matter to you, then that is your fate.

[I don't wear hoodies.]

 

[bill82828]

thanks for all your input. i am leaning towards harvard right now because im pretty sure i want to specialize and seeing as how 95% of harvard grads get into specialties, i think i will have a better chance there. the students seemed happier, healthier and were much more friendly than at McGill. and Harvard's pbl and pass/fail curriculum seem better suited to me. i know its alot of money to pay for an education, but i think that price should be the last thing you look at when choosing a school.

ive heard from alot of people that McGill is harder to get into than Harvard but i wonder if this is just because all Canadians apply to McGill because its the cheapest. just because it is harder to get into doesnt neccessarily mean it is better, right?

anyways, i appreciate everybody taking the time to reply, and if there is anyone out there that has gotten into either of these schools, id appreciate your input!

 

[diane07]

If you want to take the boards and work in the US, go to Harvard. It may be worth the extra cost just for the friends, contacts, networking, ect.

If you want to work in Canada, then go to the much cheaper McGill.

 

[bill82828]

i guess it would be an easy decision if i knew where i wanted to practice. but to be honest, i am really unsure if i will want to stay in canada or practice in the US.

 

[dizzle23x]

bill, if you really like harvard, go there if you think you'll be happier, end of story. however, if you like mcgill as well, i would call up their office and ask about their specialization rate if you don't already know. then you should really sit down and figure out where you want to practice when you graduate.

 

[dento58910001ct]

i am myself a canadian student...
i would tell you 100% go to harvard

 

[Acherona]

Haha no kidding. The only people that seriously care about what school is on the degree are predental students. I doubt seriously that you're going to get difference in education worth 214K; think of the interest you pay on that and the costs of operation. If you chose the expensive option, by that much money, for prestige then you might as well have that ivy-league hoodie say "jackass."

It's not about the education being better or worse, or the prestige, it's about the opportunities post-graduation that are opened to you simply by the name on your diploma. Even if you want to come back to Canada, I still think this will work in your advantage as they seem to derive a strange pleasure from reverse brain-draining people from the top schools in the States. $2000 is not important in the long-run, I would not let this factor into my decision.

PS McGill is also pass/fail at least in the med school part

 

[puncho]

i'd go to mcgill hands down. it's sooo cheap and if you want to stay in canada it's a good choice. plus, montreal is sweet, not that you'll get a chance to go out. harvard an boston are way expensive and if you want to specialize you'll probably have to bust ass no matter where you go.

What he said

 

[Drill2Fill]

I would easily pick Harvard if you think you want to specialize.

 

[Denticized]

Unless you are from Montreal and you love your family so much that even a second away from them is absolute pain and misery (my story), you should go to HARVARD but otherwise stay in Montreal and enjoy your family because you only live so many years and the name Harvard isn't worth it.

 

[Will I get In?]

Have you considered how much tail you'll get if you graduate from Harvard?

I'd say "Ve-ri-tas". Whatever argument that some throws about the other school will be valid. But c'mon its "Haaavard" , 35 students, a beautiful city[Boston],and $244K is NOT alot of money for a dental education.

While collegeboy seems to be a semi-normal guy, be sure not to take any advice from someone who's main concern seems to be getting tail...

Dude, your gonna be a dentist.. you'll have to get "tail" despite that fact, not because of it.. regardless of which school you graduate from, ivy league or not. You may as well tell women you're an accountant..

 

[coolraz]

Actually, sorry to dissapoint you but Harvard is known among the dental world for having not so hot a clinical program (academics are top notch though). So, if you're going to practice dentistry after graduating, and looking for an associateship, I can guarantee you that having gone to harvard will be a NEGATIVE! Yes, you can probably impress patients, but when you pulp expose every other cavity prep, they'll start to understand what the dentists already know (which is, a harvard grad needs a lot of extra practice to do good dentistry!)
Now, if you want to go into ACADEMIA of dentistry, do RESEARCH or straight up specialize, then of course harvard is the way to go. Unless you fail (which is VERY hard to do at harvard dental since it's esentially a pass/let's talk about it and then you pass system), you are pretty much good to go for speciality if you get the board scores (i.e whereas for other schoools, your class rank will matter, from harvard it will not).
If you're 100% sure you'll stay in canada, go to McGill. Otherwise, you have to go to Harvard. Having a US degree, you can practice anywhere in the world after taking a clinical exam (way easier than any regional boards in US), and Harvard's name WILL impress patients and dentists INTERNATIONALLY (again, NOT in the US b/c dentists here know clinical at H is lacking). The cost of education at Harvard is NOT very high compared to other US schools, and believe me, in 4-5 years interst rates will drop, you can consolidate your loans at like 3-4% and take as long as you freakin want to pay off your debt b/c it will be like free money.
The point is, Harvard is a VERY GOOD school, but NOT if you plan to be a general dentist (i.e practice upon graduating).

Make the best decision for you!

 

[lgwdnbdgr]

I wouldn't worry too much about the clinical shortcomings at Harvard, as long as you don't forget about them. You get FAR more experience out in practice than you do in school. So, as a recent Harvard grad, you'll be somewhat behind your colleagues in 2011. As long as you keep that in mind and work on improving, you'll be able to erase that disadvantage in no time.

If you come out prepared to "drop the H-bomb" on anybody who doesn't bow down before your skills, well, then you'll probably suck as a dentist. Of course, that would be true even if Harvard had the best clinical training in the world -- someone else is always going to be better than you at SOMETHING, no matter how good you are.

This is not to say you should take Harvard over McGill. Go to the school that you think best fits your learning style. Every school has its advantages and disadvantages. When you graduate, you will be a mediocre dentist, at best. We just won't have the experience to be any better. If you go to the school where you think YOU'LL learn the best, you'll have less ground to make up when you get out.

 

[busupshot83]

I'd definitely go the cheaper route... so McGill. Yeah, yeah, it's "Harvard," but dental school is dental school in the long run.

It's your call though...

 

[SHC1984]

OF course HARVARD!! God I wish I was in your shoes! lol...
Harvard will give you opportunties to meet the kinds of people that will open doors for you in the future. Its not just about the name is (of course that is important too!!) but its about the kinds of people and networking you will be exposed to in the future!

 

[keibee82]

OF course HARVARD!! God I wish I was in your shoes! lol...
Harvard will give you opportunties to meet the kinds of people that will open doors for you in the future. Its not just about the name is (of course that is important too!!) but its about the kinds of people and networking you will be exposed to in the future!

Every school will give you opportunites for research and others that can open the door for you in the future. In fact Harvard only has class size of 35, where as other schools like NYU has more than 200. I don't know what kind of people you are talking about, but just because someone's from Harvard Dent, or Med, don't make them superior. Also IMO, name of the school don't really matter. I think what really matter is the FIT between you and the school, which considers your learning style, opportunities for research & clinical experience you wish you obtain during 4 years in school, location etc..
I never tried to find out where my dentist got his degree, and I don't really care. After 4 years, they all come out with the same degree (DDS/DMD).
I don't really know much about McGill, but i suggest make a list of things you want to achieve in those next four years and try to match them with both schools. I'm sure they're both great school GL!

 

[gryffindor]

OF course HARVARD!! God I wish I was in your shoes! lol...
Harvard will give you opportunties to meet the kinds of people that will open doors for you in the future. Its not just about the name is (of course that is important too!!) but its about the kinds of people and networking you will be exposed to in the future!

These doors only matter if you want to pursue a career in academia where your pedigree might matter. Then again, with the faculty shortage, dental schools are open to considering any qualified candidates who want to teach and be full time administrators.

If you think the name will open any doors out in private practice, really, it's not a big deal. Working in dentistry is nothing like the fields of law or business where corporations salivate over status schools and laugh at the mediocre ones.

 

[busupshot83]

These doors only matter if you want to pursue a career in academia where your pedigree might matter. Then again, with the faculty shortage, dental schools are open to considering any qualified candidates who want to teach and be full time administrators.

If you think the name will open any doors out in private practice, really, it's not a big deal. Working in dentistry is nothing like the fields of law or business where corporations salivate over status schools and laugh at the mediocre ones.

 

[BuckeyeDDS]

Are you really asking this question?? HARVARD.... forget about the $2000, you are one of the few who will be able to say I graduated from Harvard Dental.
Don't let the chance go by.

You will most likely, however, be talking to one of the very few people who actually care. But I can understand the intrigue of being associated with a university with so much tradition and a name like Harvard.

I agree with what gryffindor just said. Take a good look at what your career objectives truly are. Here's the great thing...there's not really a wrong decision here.

 

[Ice]

I am a Canadian...and just got into McGill for Grad studies. It's a really good school and all but if I were you, I'd pick Harvard! Congrats for getting into such prestigious schools