McMaster University Issue

[shaq786]

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I look into my MSAR and I see McMaster University

Requirements for Entrance:

-Completion of 3 full years at an accredited university with an overall B average(WTF?)

-The MCAT is not Required

-Three year medical school program

1. This is an accredited university under the AAMC. Why are they being so leinient? Why not invoke a higher standard? I'm sure other schools in Ontario have that higher standard.

2. How does this school compare to the Carribeans? Is it really worth going here?

3. Would I get criticized by others(future patients, family and friends) for going here rather than taking my MCATs and applying to a better institution?

 

[tiger_lily]

I'm no expert on McMaster, but keep in mind a few things... These are minimum requirements... which doesn't mean that as long as you have them, you'll get accepted! Last year there were >6000 applicants (probably largely due to the reasons you stated above) for (I think) 148 seats. The average GPA for the entering class last year was 3.88. Also, medical education in Canada is pretty standardized, so any Canadian school ranks among the top 1/4 (or so I hear) of American schools.
But this is all anecdotal evidence and numbers I pulled from a quick Google search, so take it all with a grain of salt 🙂

 

[Dunce]

I'm admittedly incredibly uneducated regarding the Canadian med school system, but is that stat you threw out true -- about the Canadian schools being considered up there with all the top US schools?

 

[tiger_lily]

I'm admittedly incredibly uneducated regarding the Canadian med school system, but is that stat you threw out true -- about the Canadian schools being considered up there with all the top US schools?

Again... only what I've heard anecdotally. But I do know that it's all about the residency in Canada, and you'll get a similar education anywhere (ie, "there are no bad med schools in Canada"). I know about as much about American schools as you know about Canadian schools, so I'm not much help. Surely there's a Canerican out there somewhere who's looked into this?

 

[Scottish Chap]

I look into my MSAR and I see McMaster University

Requirements for Entrance:

-Completion of 3 full years at an accredited university with an overall B average(WTF?)

-The MCAT is not Required

-Three year medical school program

1. This is an accredited university under the AAMC. Why are they being so leinient? Why not invoke a higher standard? I'm sure other schools in Ontario have that higher standard.

2. How does this school compare to the Carribeans? Is it really worth going here?

3. Would I get criticized by others(future patients, family and friends) for going here rather than taking my MCATs and applying to a better institution?

McMaster has a very unusual curriculum. No MCAT is required, you do not require prior knowledge of the sciences (no prereqs), and you need a minimum GPA of 3.0 to apply. The entire curriculum is PBL with only a couple of token 'progress' exams, and you graduate in three years. There are studies on McMaster on Pubmed – apparently the averages graduate knows less than a traditional medical school graduate upon completion of the MD, but the McMaster graduates were shown to have superior clinical skills compared to traditional graduates after ten years.

Traditionally, McMaster accepted a few people with GPA's in the low 3's (one of whom I know), but now they do not interview anyone with less than a 3.5 - even though they state in their prospectus that what their minimum requirements are. They no longer accept international students either - but they will allow you to apply. In short, McMaster has an unusual curriculum that seems to work for them and, although their graduates can and do go into all specialties, they are quite focused on placing their graduates in primary care.

 

[skypilot]

I look into my MSAR and I see McMaster University

Requirements for Entrance:

-Completion of 3 full years at an accredited university with an overall B average(WTF?)

-The MCAT is not Required

-Three year medical school program

1. This is an accredited university under the AAMC. Why are they being so leinient? Why not invoke a higher standard? I'm sure other schools in Ontario have that higher standard.

2. How does this school compare to the Carribeans? Is it really worth going here?

3. Would I get criticized by others(future patients, family and friends) for going here rather than taking my MCATs and applying to a better institution?

Good luck getting in! 🙂 I think Harvard requires a 3.0 as a minimum GPA for admission too. The school is accredited by LCME so it is just as good as any US school. I think they get rid of summer and winter breaks to jam the curriculum into three years. Some U.S. school have recently been experimenting with three year curriculums as well.

 

[Mike59]

I look into my MSAR and I see McMaster University...
1. This is an accredited university under the AAMC. Why are they being so leinient? Why not invoke a higher standard? I'm sure other schools in Ontario have that higher standard.

2. How does this school compare to the Carribeans? Is it really worth going here?

3. Would I get criticized by others(future patients, family and friends) for going here rather than taking my MCATs and applying to a better institution?

McMasterMedAlumnus here....

Keep in mind that McMaster prides itself on pushing the envelope in medical education..they INVENTED PBL in the 60's and their apparently wacky curriculum followed from there. I'm glad it exists since I'd poke my eyes out sitting in didactic teaching all day...the school caters to strong students who like PBL and are self-starters.

In answer to your first question regarding the historical lack of an MCAT requirement: the admissions department has published many papers about this and found the MCAT to be useless as a predictor of success in medical school and achievment on the board exams so they figure, why require it? Just because other schools have strict MCAT cutoffs doesn't make it right or mean that they admit better doctors. If anyone is gonna question the status quo and do something radical, count on someone from McMaster to do it...

However, tides are turning and I've heard that new applicants to McMaster are required to show a verbal reasoning score only because they did a study recently and found this to be the only section associated with the outcomes they look for such as good performance in med school and board exams etc, check the new MSAR/website to verify. It's odd, but "evidence based" apparently.

In anwer to your 2nd question, McMaster is one of Canada's best med schools, placing it on par with many of the top US schools in terms of clinical training and reputation. We have a very impressive match list with many applicants getting competitive specialty placements. Average GPA of incoming 1st years is 3.9 and in terms of GPA and odds of getting in, this IS Canada's most competitive medical school. Of the 140 or so people admitted every year, usually 1 gets in every 4-5 years from the international pool so being a Canadian citizen is a must otherwise you're wasting your money.

There is NO COMPARISON with Carribean schools and I have no idea where you got that from...Your 3rd question is simulatneously ignorant and humorous actually...

 

[PLT]

Just to add to the support for Mac so you can see there is a general consensus on it:
Without a doubt at all, all the Canadian med schools are "good" schools. They are all strictly investigated by national and provincial bodies and differ only in the manner in which they deliver the curriculum. If you insist on rankings, then certainly there is some heirarchy among the schools but regardless, they are all far above many many American schools. By the way, I got in at a handful of other Canadian schools and am on Yale's "high waitlist", but did not get an interview at McMaster.

 

[MeowMix]

I also applied to multiple US med schools with multiple acceptances, and didn't even get a secondary at Mac (as a Canadian citizen)...I hadn't realized that my low, low 3.5 GPA would knock me out of contention. 😀

 

[DMDcanada]

I look into my MSAR and I see McMaster University



3. Would I get criticized by others(future patients, family and friends) for going here rather than taking my MCATs and applying to a better institution?

Canadian Medical Schools all provide an outstanding education. There are currently 16 Medical Schools coast to coast in the country. All are rigourous to get into.

The reason why no MCATs are required is because as many people know, it is NOT a predictor of the type of MD u will be. Also, the MCAT is an american invention, there is no canadian equivalent like the DATs for example....

Canadian medical schools are ALL accredited by the AAMC and provide a 1st class education. They cannot be compared to the carribean.