MCRI battles AA in Michigan

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now can we just get rid of legacy preference...

...and while we're at it, let's make the varsity athletes meet the same standards as the rest of the student body...Rice Style

(flame war back on)

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Rice style?

What do you know about Rice U.?
 
Rice style?

What do you know about Rice U.?

if the guys calling the NCAA baseball tourney were correct, Rice requires all varisty athletes to meet the same academic standards as the rest of the student body. (then again, that's supposed to be the case at all D3 schools, and we all know that's not the case here)
 
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if the guys calling the NCAA baseball tourney were correct, Rice requires all varisty athletes to meet the same academic standards as the rest of the student body. (then again, that's supposed to be the case at all D3 schools, and we all know that's not the case here)

That's a lie....I know b/c when I was basketball team manager in undergrad I had to use the athletic academic advisors, who admitted to me that atheletes do not have to meet the same standards. However, the school is still more selective in terms of admitting specific atheletes to Rice. They get no special treatment once they become a student.

Some of the atheletes are truly amazing in that they are able to juggle sports and double majoring in electrical and bioengineering. It is a wonder that we are even able to pseudo-compete on the DI level. Heck, we even won a baseball championship in 2003.

BY THE WAY: OSU IS GOING TO GET ROCKED ON SAT!!!! THEN USC WILL ROCK UMICH IN THE NATL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME
 
That's a lie....I know b/c when I was basketball team manager in undergrad I had to use the athletic academic advisors, who admitted to me that atheletes do not have to meet the same standards. However, the school is still more selective in terms of admitting specific atheletes to Rice. They get no special treatment once they become a student.

Some of the atheletes are truly amazing in that they are able to juggle sports and double majoring in electrical and bioengineering. It is a wonder that we are even able to pseudo-compete on the DI level. Heck, we even won a baseball championship in 2003.

BY THE WAY: OSU IS GOING TO GET ROCKED ON SAT!!!! THEN USC WILL ROCK UMICH IN THE NATL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME

Either way I give rice a lot more credit than any of the big10 schools (with northwestern a minor exception). All the guys I know from my HS who recieved scholarships to michigan aren't the brighest folk on earth. We had one a few years ago who many picked to be Michigan's starting tailback as a freshman who teetered above the HS eligibility mark...and basically only stayed above it because of "help" from his teachers. He ended up not graduating from HS, lost his scholarhip to Michigan, and Purdue STILL picked him up later. (the good news was the because of this kid I had Lloyd Carr walk into my health class one day to say hi since the football coach was my teacher)

edit: I mention Northwestern as an exemption because they at least require a 24 ACT (a neighbor of mine who played for the US u17 national team was offered a spot there)... well below their average, but still better than the requirement of "can you tie your own shoes" that the rest of the big 10 has.
 
Either way I give rice a lot more credit than any of the big10 schools (with northwestern a minor exception). All the guys I know from my HS who recieved scholarships to michigan aren't the brighest folk on earth. We had one a few years ago who many picked to be Michigan's starting tailback as a freshman who teetered above the HS eligibility mark...and basically only stayed above it because of "help" from his teachers. He ended up not graduating from HS, lost his scholarhip to Michigan, and Purdue STILL picked him up later. (the good news was the because of this kid I had Lloyd Carr walk into my health class one day to say hi since the football coach was my teacher)
I think while we're at it, we should disqualify from admissions anyone from Michigan who is applying to the University of Michigan and has the nerve to have an OSU avatar...
 
I think while we're at it, we should disqualify from admissions anyone from Michigan who is applying to the University of Michigan and the nerve to have an OSU avatar...

I saw that comment coming... ;)
 
Here's a little help for your research on AA:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=332618&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=332544&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=331226&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=324769&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=323889&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=306866&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=306866&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=315055&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=262097&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=309219&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=46604&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=306827&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=12020&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=286946&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=286302&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=285817&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=283152&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=281362&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=270608&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=274301&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235379&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=239656&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235599&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235528&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=234632&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=234441&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=233933&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=221780&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=221853&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235599&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=215366&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=208025&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=203685&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=203601&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=203601&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=190172&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=70922&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=186948&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=182886&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=179526&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=175977&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=174092&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=173587&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=168516&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=165859&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=162406&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=159790&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=155920&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=151874&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=150933&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=141039&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=132594&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=134799&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=134683&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=133164&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=133164&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=119146&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=119131&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=95471&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=116785&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/sho...read.php?t=85539&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=102358&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=102533&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=102369&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=53999&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=96949&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=96133&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=95297&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=86457&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=87760&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=78969&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=76640&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=75569&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=74452&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=74149&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=74168&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71199&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=68499&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=73478&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=73161&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71384&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71935&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71823&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=70811&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71103&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=68067&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=66957&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=65768&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=67316&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=66935&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=65919&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=66037&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=65889&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=62673&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=61718&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=46603&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=48465&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=56293&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=56307&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=53809&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=51799&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=45309&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=45309&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=43576&highlight=affirmative+action
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=320954&highlight=URM
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=317813&highlight=URM
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=313272&highlight=URM
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=313510&highlight=URM
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=46604&highlight=URM

The figures below are taken from this link on AAMCs site: https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version53.pdf&prd_id=133&prv_id=154&pdf_id=53 and https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version71.pdf&prd_id=161&prv_id=191&pdf_id=71

US Demographics (Taken from: http://www.adherents.com/adh_dem.html)

White: 75.1%
Hispanic/Latino: 12.5%
Black: 12.3%
Asian: 3.6%
Multiracial: 2.4%
Native American: 0.9%

MEDICAL SCHOOL MATRCULANTS BY RACE AND ETHNICITY (2004)
White=62.1%
Asian= 18.6%
Hispanic= 7.0%
Black= 6.5%
Native American= 0.3%
Multiple Race= 3.0%
Other= 1.0%
Foreign= 1.3%

U.S. PHYSICIANS BY RACE AND ETHNICITY (2004)
White=36.7%
IMG=23.6%
Unknown=27.6%
Native American= 0.3%
Black= 3.3%
Hispanic/Latino= 2.8%
Asian= 5.7%

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

1) Why are Asians not considered for AA?

Because the purpose of AA is to increase the number of physicians that are underrepresented in MEDICINE. As you can see above, Asians are not underrepresented in medicine.

2) Why would the AAMC desire to increase the amount of physicians underrepresented in medicine?

Because this translates to less (for example) Hispanic physicians for the ever increasing hispanic population. Research has shown that Hispanics and blacks receive a lower quality of care from doctors that are not Hispanic and/or black and research has shown that people are more likely to see doctors who look like them.

3) Why not just base AA on socio-economic status?

Do you remember the section on AMCAS where you can check off whether you are disadvantaged or not? That is where socioeconomic status is taken into consideration.

4) Do all URMs get lower scores and get into medical school?

No. Most don't get into medical school. The average medical school has at the most 8 black students out of a class of 100 or more.

5) MORE TO COME!!!
 
2) Why would the AAMC desire to increase the amount of physicians underrepresented in medicine?

Because this translates to less (for example) Hispanic physicians for the ever increasing hispanic population. Research has shown that Hispanics and blacks receive a lower quality of care from doctors that are not Hispanic and/or black and research has shown that people are more likely to see doctors who look like them.

Not very convincing. If blacks and hispanics are concerned that people from their culture are not receiving satisfactory care, then it is up to them to do everything they possibly can to get into medical school and through residency so that one day they can change the current situation.
Take me for an example. My goal is to serve rich white and asian people. That is why I have worked very hard over the past four years.
If blacks and latinos want to serve people from their culture, they should also have to work hard!
If I had to go in for neurosurgery, I would make sure I was not operated on by an URM who got into medical school through affirmative action. I would want the best possible surgeon, and that is not what AA provides.
 
I'm really taking your comments lightly since you only have 3 posts and you haven't built up enough status yet to ensure that you aren't a troll, but I want you to walk into any medical or hospital in the United States and talk to an attending or residency director. They will confirm that what you got on your MCAT, STEP 1 boards, or your undergrad GPA has absolutely no correlation on how well a doctor you will be. But if you makes you feel better to be treated by an asian or white doctor, it only makes statistical sense since research tells us that people like to be treated (medically) by people that look like them.
 
Since Michigan did pass the MCRI legislation, there really isn't any point to this thread anymore. The conclusion is that Michigan schools will become even more white than they were before. Some people think that is good, some don't. End of story.
 
I want you to walk into any medical or hospital in the United States and talk to an attending or residency director. They will confirm that what you got on your MCAT, STEP 1 boards, or your undergrad GPA has absolutely no correlation on how well a doctor you will be.

Yes, clearly a doctor's abilities have nothing to do with their intelligence.
 
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Since Michigan did pass the MCRI legislation, there really isn't any point to this thread anymore. The conclusion is that Michigan schools will become even more white than they were before. Some people think that is good, some don't. End of story.

The quality of a school has nothing to do with how white or asian it is. What is imporatnt to me is that America remains a meritocracy. It's absolutely ridiculous that latinos and blacks should be able to get into medical schools with weaker qualifications than their white and asian peers. No group has a RIGHT to be proportionally represented in medicine. Simply because blacks make up 15% of the population, that does not mean that they are entitled to 15% of the seats in medical schools. If this country is to get past trivial things like skin color, then we need to stop considering it during admissions processes. AA only creates a stigma for URM physicians, and infuriates whites and asians who know that they lost their seat in their dream medical school to a weaker candidate b/c of their skin color. America should be a meritocracy. You want something? Then work for it!
 
Since Michigan did pass the MCRI legislation, there really isn't any point to this thread anymore. The conclusion is that Michigan schools will become even more white than they were before. Some people think that is good, some don't. End of story.

Maybe they'll just remain just as white as before, not necessarily "more" white?

There's gotta be more to it than that - I dont' think the MCRI had racist intentions or came from the "AA is reverse discrimination" camp. I think they truly wanted complete equality - forget about AA and everything related to it. If you want to eliminate discrimination and racism - stop emphasizing race and using dicriminatory policies such as AA. My own personal opinions is that this argument simplifies a complex issue and is too idealistic. I support AA for now, but we - as the so-called developed, wealthy, and advanced people of the west - need to WAKE THE F*CK up and address our social problems that lead to disparities that necessitate programs like AA.

Anyway, perhaps they will find other ways to address the diversity issue...
 
The quality of a school has nothing to do with how white or asian it is. What is imporatnt to me is that America remains a meritocracy. It's absolutely ridiculous that latinos and blacks should be able to get into medical schools with weaker qualifications than their white and asian peers. No group has a RIGHT to be proportionally represented in medicine. Simply because blacks make up 15% of the population, that does not mean that they are entitled to 15% of the seats in medical schools. If this country is to get past trivial things like skin color, then we need to stop considering it during admissions processes. AA only creates a stigma for URM physicians, and infuriates whites and asians who know that they lost their seat in their dream medical school to a weaker candidate b/c of their skin color. America should be a meritocracy. You want something? Then work for it!

In the ideal case, being a meritocracy is great. But even in racially and culturally (relatively) homogenous societies, meritocracy crumbles in the face of sexism, favourtism, corruption, discrimination based on political views, sexuality, religion, family background etc and the list goes on.

Add cultural and racial diversity to the mix and it becomes even more complicated.
 
The quality of a school has nothing to do with how white or asian it is. What is imporatnt to me is that America remains a meritocracy. It's absolutely ridiculous that latinos and blacks should be able to get into medical schools with weaker qualifications than their white and asian peers. No group has a RIGHT to be proportionally represented in medicine. Simply because blacks make up 15% of the population, that does not mean that they are entitled to 15% of the seats in medical schools. If this country is to get past trivial things like skin color, then we need to stop considering it during admissions processes. AA only creates a stigma for URM physicians, and infuriates whites and asians who know that they lost their seat in their dream medical school to a weaker candidate b/c of their skin color. America should be a meritocracy. You want something? Then work for it!

I've decided that this is the last non-standardized post I'll make in a AA thread because its a waste of time to argue this over and over again. It is a premed fairytale that all it takes to get into medical school is GPA and MCAT. Medical schools want people with a diversity of experiences also. I assure you that no premed, white or black, with a 25 MCAT and a 3.2 GPA and no extra curricular activities will make it into any medical school in the US. Am I a subpar applicant because of my relief work during Hurricane Rita and Katrina? Am I a subpar applicant because of my relief work in the refugee camps in Zambia, Africa? Am I a subpar applicant because I've already completely dissected a cadaver twice over? You have to understand that people are more than their MCAT and GPA; and even when Michigan completely bans AA, high GPA and MCATs wont' cut it alone. Medical schools look at the whole package; once you pass their cut off point, the rest is fair game.

Maybe they'll just remain just as white as before, not necessarily "more" white?

There's gotta be more to it than that -

If you look at the first couple of posts of this thread, you will see the article I posted. Diversity in California and Washington schools fell SHARPLY once AA was banned. So if these schools are admitting less blacks and hispanics, then who is taking their place? White's and Asians. I'm not saying this is bad, I'm just saying that not everyone sees this as a sucess.
 
AA does not effect white admissions whatsoever... latino and white admissions have stayed relatively stable, while the asians have taken the spots that were "reserved" for minorities

AA helps blacks the most
AA hurts Asians the most
AA barely effects whites

:thumbup:
 
If I had to go in for neurosurgery, I would make sure I was not operated on by an URM who got into medical school through affirmative action.

I'd say you're as good as banned... and too stupid for med school.
 
getting rejected by UMich stung that bad, huh ?

I consdier it a more productive use of my frustration than the course taken by say... Jennifer Gratz.

and I'd much rather support a school that's given me an interview than one that I'm in limbo with...
 
In fact I believe it should not stop at the admissions process. Minorities should earn A's in elementary school, middle school, high school, and college by scoring 75% or higher, while their white counterparts are forced to score 95% or higher to earn A's. This should account for the damage caused by slavery and the racist history of this country in the impact suffered by minorities regarding educational achievement. Once accepted into medical school all minorities should not need to display such high achievment to earn pass and pass-with-honors grades compared to their white counterparts. Furthermore, the USMLE should allow for lower standards in passing minorities. Specialty board exams should have much lower standards for passing minorities. While serving as practicing physicians minorities should be immune from medical malpractice lawsuits because it was not their fault that they were not qualified to practice medicine, they were simply victims of the racist system that failed them as well as the patients that they killed.

Affirmative Action just gives me such a warm, comforting feeling ever time I think about what it is doing for society.
 
In fact I believe it should not stop at the admissions process. Minorities should earn A's in elementary school, middle school, high school, and college by scoring 75% or higher, while their white counterparts are forced to score 95% or higher to earn A's. This should account for the damage caused by slavery and the racist history of this country in the impact suffered by minorities regarding educational achievement. Once accepted into medical school all minorities should not need to display such high achievment to earn pass and pass-with-honors grades compared to their white counterparts. Furthermore, the USMLE should allow for lower standards in passing minorities. Specialty board exams should have much lower standards for passing minorities. While serving as practicing physicians minorities should be immune from medical malpractice lawsuits because it was not their fault that they were not qualified to practice medicine, they were simply victims of the racist system that failed them as well as the patients that they killed.

Affirmative Action just gives me such a warm, comforting feeling ever time I think about what it is doing for society.


you have it all figured out:rolleyes:
 
I think while we're at it, we should disqualify from admissions anyone from Michigan who is applying to the University of Michigan and has the nerve to have an OSU avatar...

:thumbup:
can't wait til osu goes down this weekend and we get to watch their fans cry all the way to the rose bowl.
:D
 
Since Michigan did pass the MCRI legislation, there really isn't any point to this thread anymore. The conclusion is that Michigan schools will become even more white than they were before. Some people think that is good, some don't. End of story.

YES! This is good news for all of us! Now we can make fun of Black people and Hispanics and get away with it :D
What do you call a black or Hispanic at University of Michigan med. next year???













Janitor
 
There are several govt sponsored programs that actually offer to pay for a large portion of a med student's education if they committ a specific amount of time to working in underserved communities. What is interesting is that it has been documented that URM's have been much more likely to pursue such opportunities compared to their non-URM counterparts. But this is something that is always swept under the rug by people who refuse to move beyond their 1-dimensional analysis of the implemented policies.

But back to the article: I agree with reckless' and gooddoc's post

maybe thats why the quality of medical care sux in those areas...
 
maybe thats why the quality of medical care sux in those areas...

right on! The Blacks and Hispanics are running the medical system through the floor! :mad: It has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are working with less equipment or have to deal with more patients per doctor!!!

White people have no obligation to serve in the Back/Hispanic areas; their only obligation is to serve the REAL Americans!!!
:idea:
 
YES! This is good news for all of us! Now we can make fun of Black people and Hispanics and get away with it :D
What do you call a black or Hispanic at University of Michigan med. next year???













Janitor

right on! The Blacks and Hispanics are running the medical system through the floor! :mad: It has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are working with less equipment or have to deal with more patients per doctor!!!

White people have no obligation to serve in the Back/Hispanic areas; their only obligation is to serve the REAL Americans!!!
:idea:

Trent Lott in the house!
 
right on! The Blacks and Hispanics are running the medical system through the floor! :mad: It has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are working with less equipment or have to deal with more patients per doctor!!!

White people have no obligation to serve in the Back/Hispanic areas; their only obligation is to serve the REAL Americans!!!
:idea:

i do not support your type of racism, i think blacks/hispanics are real americans as well
 
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS-UPDATED!!!

1) Why aren't Asians considered for AA?

Because the purpose of AA is to increase the number of physicians that are underrepresented in MEDICINE. As you can see above, Asians are not underrepresented in medicine.

2) Why would the AAMC desire to increase the amount of physicians underrepresented in medicine?


Because this translates to less (for example) Hispanic physicians for the ever increasing hispanic population. Research has shown that Hispanics and blacks receive a lower quality of care from doctors that are not Hispanic and/or black and research has shown that people are more likely to see doctors who look like them.

3) Why not just base AA on socio-economic status?

Do you remember the section on AMCAS where you can check off whether you are disadvantaged or not? That is where socioeconomic status is taken into consideration.

4) Do all URMs get lower scores and get into medical school?

No. Most don't get into medical school and most aren't applying either. The average medical school has at the most 8 black students out of a class of 100 or more. About half of the ~35,000 applicants per year are not admitted to any school. About 10% of those who are admitted are URM and 10% of those who are not admitted are URM. So, currently ~15,750 non-URM do not get admitted to any school. If there were no URM, the number of non-URM who would not be admitted to any school would be ~14,000 (LizzyM)

5) Isn't AA causing me to think that all minorities that are in my medical school got in only because of their race?

Don't blame affirmative action. If you feel this way, there were already preconceived biases within you about the intelligence level of minorities. AA just provides an avenue to openly express these biases.

6) Can I trust a doctor who was admitted to medical school through AA?

Doctor Ben Caron would never be where he is without affirmative action (http://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/0472112988-ch7.pdf). Would you trust your child's brain tumor to be extracted by him? Probably.

7) Has affirmative action worked?

Yes. In a study done by the University of Michigan (although its dated); affirmative action has worked. In the 1970s blacks made up only 2.7% of the 37,690 enrolled medical students. By 1977, blacks comprised 6.0% of the enrolled 60,039 medical students (http://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/0472112988-ch7.pdf)

8) Will black physicians return to black communities?

Yes. They serve predominantly black communities even when they are trained at non-minority medical schools. Also, research has shown that the nonminority peers of black medical students practice in predominantly white communities. (http://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/0472112988-ch7.pdf)

9) Would a race neutral medical school admissions policy produce graduates who would tend to go into underserved areas?

NO. One study shows that a race-neutral AA program produces a quite different outcome. During the 20-yyear period of 1968 to 1987 the University of California at Davis admitted 20% of its students, a total of 356 as special consideration admissions. Special admissions were defined as a race-neutral group that included students with less than a GPA of 3.0 (4.0 scale) and/or an MCAT average score less than 10 for the 4 test subscores; this group was matched with students admitted under regular admission criteria.

The special group contained 33% who did not meet the minimum GPA for regular admissions, 44% who did not meet minimum MCAT scores, and 23% who met neither. In background the special admissions students were 35% women; 46% non-Hispanic Whites; 42.7% URM in the categories of Black, Native American, Mexican American, mainland Puerto Rican; and 11% Asian and minority groups not included in the previous categories. Among the regularly admitted students, only 4% were URM students. Graduation rates were the SAME for special admission and other students, nor was there a difference in their postgraduate training choices, their specialty certification status, or their description of patients served. This indicates that race-neutral affirmative action based on lower GPA and/or MCAT scores does not predict future speciality or medical practice experience. (Davidson and Lewis 1997).
 
This thread has overstayed its welcome, so I'm closing it. If you're interested in discussing the issue, please do so in the Everyone forum--there's a similar, active thread there.
 
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