MCV vs Creighton Do rankings even matter?

[Transgress20]

Hey I hate to start another one of these threads but I just got off the waitlist from MCV and I got accepted to creighton and I need to make a decision in a couple of days. There is a lot of factors weighing in my decision but I just wanted to know what people thought about which school was academically better. MCV was recently ranked in the 60s in primary care in US news and world report ahead of creighton. (yet I don't want to do primary care or research) But creighton is listed as much harder to get into than MCV in US news. Ideally I would like to end up on the west coast. Please help me😳

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[spicedmanna]

Hey I hate to start another one of these threads but I just got off the waitlist from MCV and I got accepted to creighton and I need to make a decision in a couple of days. There is a lot of factors weighing in my decision but I just wanted to know what people thought about which school was academically better. MCV was recently ranked in the 60s in primary care in US news and world report ahead of creighton. (yet I don't want to do primary care or research) But creighton is listed as much harder to get into than MCV in US news. Ideally I would like to end up on the west coast. Please help me😳

In my opinion, you need to understand the methodology of the rankings made by USN&WR to make any sense of it. Honestly, I think it's pretty much bunk, unless you completely buy into their criteria for the rankings. I wouldn't decide on a school based on some obscure ranking system. Do your own research on curriculum, mission statements/focus, rotations and affiliations, average board scores/pass rates, match list, percentage of students that get their first choice in the match, location, tuition + fees, etc., and feel it out, revisit the school, talk to the students and staff, decide which school you think you'll thrive at for four years, and then make your choice.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Hey I hate to start another one of these threads but I just got off the waitlist from MCV and I got accepted to creighton and I need to make a decision in a couple of days. There is a lot of factors weighing in my decision but I just wanted to know what people thought about which school was academically better. MCV was recently ranked in the 60s in primary care in US news and world report ahead of creighton. (yet I don't want to do primary care or research) But creighton is listed as much harder to get into than MCV in US news. Ideally I would like to end up on the west coast. Please help me😳

MCV was not ranked in primary care rankings, it was ranked in the research rankings.

Rankings really dont mean a whole heck of a lot and competitiveness to get in means even less. Take both with a grain of salt. Literally from any school you are going to be able to get a good residency provided you do well on boards and wards. Board scores depend much more on the student than on the school. Sometimes schools will have a board prep course for the students.

Stuff for MCV

Curriculum- traditional first year in blocks (biochem/Genetics block, anatomy block, phys, histo, block etc). Second year is organ system based.

Focus is pretty diverse. Not focused on primary care. Affiliations with INOVA (you can do your full 3rd year there) as well as w/ MCV-hospitals.

Average board scores range from 210s-220s but is going to change year to year. The school is not going to keep you from scoring well, it all depends on you. A friends of mine in the 3rd years class had a classmate score a 272 and a couple score in the 260s a bunch in the 240s and lots in the low 200s. It really depends on your effort and what you have retained.

2007 data
Percent who get first choice match ~60%
Percent who got top 3 83%
Percentage who matched 100%

Match list
www.medschool.vcu.edu/alumni/documents/Match07M-IVs.doc

Notable match results:
3 plastics, 3 ENT, 2 Neurosurg (out of 77 nat'l spots), 3 Derm, 3 ophtho, 15 Gas, 2 orthopedics, 6 Rads, 3 Urology, 1 Vascular Surgery

Tuition and Fees:
Instate-26K (overall about 40K after living expenses)
OOS 40K (around 55-60K after living expenses)


In the end, go where you think you will be happier and less in debt.

 

[Instatewaiter]

http://www2.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/medicine/student_docs/match07.pdf

creighton's match notables
14 GAS, 15 Rads, 2 ortho, 2 ophtho, 1 ENT

 

[Law2Doc]

creighton's match notables
14 GAS, 15 Rads, 2 ortho, 2 ophtho, 1 ENT

Premeds like to count the competitive residencies, but it's not really clear that this even suggests a "good" match list that often. These line item match figures tell you nothing, and are often misleading. 40 people getting cushy residencies means nothing if the other 2/3 of the class isn't happy where they ended up (percent of first choice tells some of the story, but often folks get advised into certain paths based on realities). Odds are someone matriculating is more likely to be in that 2/3. And you don't really know what other specialties these people could have gotten. Lots of gas and rads may just mean that a lot of the class that could have gotten rad onc, ortho, optho, derm just weren't into it, or were advised against trying. Might even mean the school is lacking in one of the basics, since so many people are opting for fields not even taught in 3rd year. Also at a lot of the top schools a ton of the top echelon of students match into IM or surgery by choice - they are each a path to multiple subspecialties and academic medicine. So where you match to is often more important than what you match into. And as a premed while you know a few big names, you don't know what's good in what specialty and which programs are reputationally good versus malignant. Unless you know for a fact what specialty you want, and even then it's smarter to assume you will change your mind at least once along the road, it pays to not put too much weight on match lists and even less on the above kind of summation of match lists.

The two schools you (OP) listed are not appreciably different in prestige in terms of residency options, both will serve as adequate launch pads for whatever specialty interests you, and your residency options will largely come down to you and how you do on Step 1 etc. So go with your gut.

 

[leftmid]

The majority of Creighton graduates (>50%, I believe) practice medicine in California. I don't know how many do their residency there though. About MCV, I know that almost all of Californians who graduate from the school do their residency in California, but I am not sure whether it is the specialty that each of them really want. You might want to check the match lists yourself.

 

[leftmid]

And I heard that spring in Richmond lasts six months, every year.

 

[Creightonite]

I am wl'ed at Creighton so I would advice to to chose MCV 🙂

 

[ph8]

My advice is the opposite of Creightonite's.

 

[YourGoldTeeth]

Notable match results:
3 plastics, 3 ENT, 2 Neurosurg (out of 17 nat'l spots), 3 Derm, 3 ophtho, 15 Gas, 2 orthopedics, 6 Rads, 3 Urology, 1 Vascular Surgery

I think this is a typo. There are 170 nat'l spots.

And beyond that, looking at match lists to determine the quality of a school is pretty much useless. It is impossible get any quantifiable information from the list. Maybe nobody at the school was interested in derm. Maybe everybody wanted derm. Perhaps there was a very influential anesthesiologist prof that inspired more people to go into gas. Maybe some students got a 260 on their step 1 and decided on pediatrics.

That being said, the match lists show that you can get into any program you want if you are a good student. That's what matters, and that is the case at just about every US MD school.

Compare debt with how much you like each school.

 

[Instatewaiter]

My bad it was a typo sent out in an e-mail from our dean. I think it was supposed to be 77

 

[Transgress20]

Hey thanks to everyone who answered. I am very happy to get into both schools and have these options. Thank you instatewaiter for the MCV info I was looking all over the website for some info on where they are matching. I found LAw2docs post very interesting and it makes you wonder how much weight you should give to resident match lists. Thank you for all the info, it should really help in my decision. Creighton should be about 4k cheaper a year based on living expenses but Ive spent the last 4 yrs in richmond.

1 last question:
Does MCV give grades?
in the manuel it says it does not rank, but people are given percentages for them to be honors, high pass etc. does the school release the percentages that match to the different "grades" during the residency match. In other words if I got pass grades would this just mean I got B- through c-.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Honestly the no rank thing is generally bs in medical school. There are a few exceptions but generally medical schools will keep your percentages in classes so that the rank may not be public but you are still ranked. This often how they give out AOA (honors society).

So at MCV there are grades: Honors, High Pass, Pass, Marginal and Fail. There is no curving because it is done on a straight scale. So technically everyone in the class could get honors.

Above 92=H
Above 86= HP
Above~65= P
Anything below ~65 is marginal or fail and you have to repeat the course

From what I have heard at MCV, in your letter from the dean/school all of your percentage scores for each class are sent out with a histogram showing how everyone in the class scored in each subject. So they know where you stand within the grade of say, HP. So with a 90 you will be in a different bar than the person with an 86 even though you both got an HP. I wouldnt worry about it too much since you have a long way until residency.

I totally agree with L2D about the match lists but people in the pre-allo forum usually ask for them so I figured I would include it. Plus I got a nifty e-mail from the dean last week talking about our match list so the info was at hand.

For what its worth, 4K per year is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of your expenses. Personally I think that that amt is almost negligible so I wouldnt focus on that as you make your decision. If the difference was 20K/year that would be a completely different story.

Just make sure you like the feel of the school and the curriculum as you will be spending the next 4 years there. Where you go for residency is not going to be determined by where you went to school but rather by the effort you put forth.

Good luck

12 hours until I am done with first year!