-
Scholarship Access: Becoming a Student Doctor course
Free access to comprehensive medical school prep. Eligible students include AAMC FAP recipients and HS graduates from underserved areas. Apply today. -
MD and MBA
- Thread starter tesfawMD
- Start date
N
nonesuchgirl
I think most people who do that do them separately, but there's at least one program that would let you do them concurrently.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2004
- Messages
- 962
- Reaction score
- 126
- Points
- 4,746
- Attending Physician
Yes
Yep! Thats an option Im actually looking into! Medical Schools wanted to make their degrees seem a little more appetizing for various reasons which is why they began to come out with joint degree programs some years ago. MD/MBA is an AWESOME one, especially for those whom foresee themselves beginning their own practice or group one day.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2008
- Messages
- 123
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 4,531
- Pre-Medical
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2003
- Messages
- 5,823
- Reaction score
- 182
- Points
- 4,746
- Location
- GMT+9
- Attending Physician
Even if you have difficulty getting into an MD/MBA program, if you absolutely need the MBA for your career plans, you should have no problem getting into a great MBA program as a practicing MD. Of course, at that point you probably will realize that you don't want to...
Also, I imagine most med schools would grant you a leave of absence after year 2 or year 3 to go get an MBA somewhere, if you have concrete ideas for how you will use it.
Also, I imagine most med schools would grant you a leave of absence after year 2 or year 3 to go get an MBA somewhere, if you have concrete ideas for how you will use it.
Why do you want the MBA?
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 8,838
- Reaction score
- 9,101
- Points
- 7,271
- Attending Physician
Oh, I can understand getting an MD/MBA, just because a lot of doctors want to run their own business or administer hospitals. And an MD/MPH, since public health policy is relevant to what we do. And pretty much everyone understands the point of an MD/PhD...
But what about the schools that offer an MD/JD? What use is that, other than making your e-peen three times longer? (No offense to L2D). Malpractice attorneys use expert MD witnesses, and hospital admins hire full time lawyers... Some joint degrees are just odd.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Oh yea MD/JD is definetly a waste of time; I acctually think L2D agrees with that.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 8,838
- Reaction score
- 9,101
- Points
- 7,271
- Attending Physician
Some school I was looking at earlier (I think it was Case) actually offers an MD/DMD (i.e. doctor/dentist). Who in their right mind would want to go through both? No one has the time to operate both practices...
Well you could get your teeth cleaned and your sleeping meds from the guy
I think people do that for oral and facial surgery but Im not really sure.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 8,838
- Reaction score
- 9,101
- Points
- 7,271
- Attending Physician
My oral surgeon (when I got my wisdom teeth removed) was just a DDS I think... Pretty sure the dual degrees are not necessary for anything, but I suppose I don't know enough about dentistry.Well you could get your teeth cleaned and your sleeping meds from the guy
I think people do that for oral and facial surgery but Im not really sure.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2008
- Messages
- 13
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
- Pre-Medical
In some states, if you want to be a Medical Examiner, you need to have an MD and a JD.
N
nonesuchgirl
I know someone who was a practicing dentist, then went back to med school and g surg. He does PRS- facial. I guess it helps on the recon side?
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 30,872
- Reaction score
- 10,063
- Points
- 6,731
- Attending Physician
Yeah, I do agree with this. I have yet to hear a compelling reason to have both degrees -- most jobs will force you to use one or the other, and so you are usually going to be in a position where you have to convince a potential employer of the virtues of having both degrees. And you certainly won't earn more by virtue of having both.
So figure out what you want to do, and only then decide to get all the degrees necessary for that job. Don't rack up degrees and decide you will figure out what to do with them later. That's the danger of joint programs -- too many people figure more degrees are better and don't always have the sense of why they are doing that. I'd say most MD/JDs, MD/MBAs, MD/XYZs only end up in jobs where the MD would have been sufficient. In a few administrative jobs the MD/MBA might be useful. In industry the MBA plus actual business work experience (rather than the MD) tends to be more useful. Unless you can articulate a job you are shooting for that requires both degrees, I wouldn't bother to get both.
Many oral surgeons are dds/md. They often start in dental school and earn an md in residency. This helps them get hospital access, etc. If you want to be an oral surgeon and are in medical school, then there is no need to get the dds.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 137
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
Would it better to get an MBA through the joint program or after finishing
med school? Also, how difficult is the MD/MBA joint program in terms of admissions and curriculum?
med school? Also, how difficult is the MD/MBA joint program in terms of admissions and curriculum?
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 30,872
- Reaction score
- 10,063
- Points
- 6,731
- Attending Physician
Again, depends what you want it for. It won't teach you how to run a small medical practice or anything like that. And it isn't generally a prerequisite for anything. Most folks in MBA programs are sent back by employers (on the employer's own dime) to get the MBA -- they don't get an MBA to get their initial job (unlike an MD or JD. It is not a professional degree, it is a degree to enhance existing skills). It may help for hospital administrative jobs in that it sets you apart from the single degree crowd. But few premeds actually know what a hospital administrator does. If you don't have a strong compelling reason to get both degrees for a particular job, I would wait on it. You probably will end up just using the MD. If you can articulate a specific job you are seeking for which the MBA is required, then may as well do the joint program. But I caution that in the MBA world, pedigree is important, not the letters, so don't do a joint MBA at XYZ state school if you think you could get into Harvard B school later. In terms of admission, it's hard to say because through the normal route, the best MBA programs require decent business experience along with top grades. Unclear what the joint programs require. The curriculum will vary depending on whether it's a normal MBA or a healthcare admin oriented program.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,244
- Reaction score
- 1,167
- Points
- 5,576
- Location
- Between Stan Getz and Jimmy Giuffre
- Non-Student
I have an MBA and a law degree and I would suggest that 90% of what you need to know about business & econ could be gained by taking introductory microeconomics and macroeconomics, introductory psych and 1 term of introductory accounting. Most MBA classes are an extension of these core classes. You would be miles ahead of most physicians because most physicians are economically ignorant.
A legal education is a just a hobby for anyone who wants to be a full time physician. Law school is tremendously interesting but over time the knowledge fades. To be a good attorney you have to keep at it. As a physician you won't have time to stay up to date.
Learn to play golf. 🙂
A legal education is a just a hobby for anyone who wants to be a full time physician. Law school is tremendously interesting but over time the knowledge fades. To be a good attorney you have to keep at it. As a physician you won't have time to stay up to date.
Learn to play golf. 🙂
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 2,365
- Reaction score
- 165
- Points
- 5,301
- Medical Student
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2008
- Messages
- 1,483
- Reaction score
- 7
- Points
- 4,551
- Medical Student
I don't really understand why the OP wants to get an MBA in addition to an MD. I have an MBA which I got for my previous career (portfolio manager on Wall Street), but I'm not really sure how an MBA would be relevant for someone who wants to practice medicine.
As law2doc says, most people who get these degrees are hospital administrators--in which case, why get an MD? (If you want to be a hospital admin, an MBA in health care management would be perfectly sufficient.)
The only other setting where you might find MD/MBAs is in marketing or management positions at a drug or medical device company. But again, as law2doc points out, if you are working in such a capacity and need an MBA, your company might very well cover the cost of an "executive MBA" program. There's no reason to incur that cost yourself up front. And if you want to work in a clinical capacity in a commercial setting (such as clinical trial supervision/development at a drug or device company), the MD alone would be enough.
As law2doc says, most people who get these degrees are hospital administrators--in which case, why get an MD? (If you want to be a hospital admin, an MBA in health care management would be perfectly sufficient.)
The only other setting where you might find MD/MBAs is in marketing or management positions at a drug or medical device company. But again, as law2doc points out, if you are working in such a capacity and need an MBA, your company might very well cover the cost of an "executive MBA" program. There's no reason to incur that cost yourself up front. And if you want to work in a clinical capacity in a commercial setting (such as clinical trial supervision/development at a drug or device company), the MD alone would be enough.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 998
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 4,551
- Location
- my own little world
- Medical Student
I can see how some MDs would greatly benefit from an MBA, others really would not at all (a local insurance firm in my area toutes that they "let doctors be doctors" by taking away the paperwork/peripheral aspects of medicine)
MBAs can be used partially to train one for a wall street career, but there are plenty of organizational behavior, marketing, economics, business management, and entrepreneurial courses that could be relevant for a physician starting a practice or hoping to work in an administrative leadership role within a hospital.
A key point made by l2d which is 100% correct in my top 5 (top 1 this year, yeah!!) mba program experience. It is a value added process. Admissions questions at the top schools relate to when one has lead change. Managed a process. Influenced a business operation through their innovation. Things that one would not do as a college senior or 1st year associate (3-5 yrs experience are pretty much required). The programs are looking to impact students by having them share personal experiences, and allowing students to understand the true meaning of their own past business experiences within a broader business framework.
So the question is if one should pursue the MBA when one has time in an off-year during med school, or after completing the MD and gaining experience when one would get more value from the MBA program but have less time to put into the program. My opinion would be that one should pursue it later (if at all)
MBAs can be used partially to train one for a wall street career, but there are plenty of organizational behavior, marketing, economics, business management, and entrepreneurial courses that could be relevant for a physician starting a practice or hoping to work in an administrative leadership role within a hospital.
A key point made by l2d which is 100% correct in my top 5 (top 1 this year, yeah!!) mba program experience. It is a value added process. Admissions questions at the top schools relate to when one has lead change. Managed a process. Influenced a business operation through their innovation. Things that one would not do as a college senior or 1st year associate (3-5 yrs experience are pretty much required). The programs are looking to impact students by having them share personal experiences, and allowing students to understand the true meaning of their own past business experiences within a broader business framework.
So the question is if one should pursue the MBA when one has time in an off-year during med school, or after completing the MD and gaining experience when one would get more value from the MBA program but have less time to put into the program. My opinion would be that one should pursue it later (if at all)
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 30,872
- Reaction score
- 10,063
- Points
- 6,731
- Attending Physician
The MBA programs I am familiar with won't provide much value for starting a medical practice. You don't learn small business practice stuff. You will largely take courses in Management, Operations, Marketing, Finance, Accounting in the typical MBA program. The business problems and models are going to be geared toward large companies. You are going to learn about assembly lines by studying Ford, and about branding by studying SouthWest Airlines and so on. Your finance will be most useful if you plan to go work at an investment house. The marketing will be useful if you plan to go work as a brand manager someplace. The accounting will be just in depth enough for you to realize you need to hire an accountant. The truth of the matter is you can learn how to run a small practice better by reading "how-to" business books, hands-on trial and error, and hiring the appropriate ancillary professionals (lawyers and accountants). It is foolish to go to business school if this is your only reason. Because business schools focus on helping their students becoming middle management, and you aren't starting a business with tiers. And again, business school is meant to enhance existing business skills, not give you a set. If you haven't been in business yet, this isn't the place to learn. Once you are in business, this might be a great place to enhance your skills and get you in line for a promotion.
As I said before, if you can explain a job you want that requires both an MD and MBA then go for it. But don't pretend the MBA is going to make you a better MD or vice versa. An MBA isn't meant for folks starting a practice. It's meant for folks already in a practice growing it nationally, or spinning it off, or selling shares.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2006
- Messages
- 1,942
- Reaction score
- 167
- Points
- 4,766
- Resident [Any Field]
University of Miami just started a MD/MBA program where in 3rd year you decide whether to pursue an MBA or not. If you decide to, your 4th year is devoted to pursuing the MBA. Afterwards, you do a 5th year which corresponds to the 4th year of everyone else. The biggest factor you must consider is that this is an extra year's tuition, meaning more debt.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 81
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 1
- Pre-Medical
Plus the inherent paradox: doctors save lives, lawyers ruin them.
And that reminds me of one of my pre-law "friends" telling me that law is more "essential" than medicine (I won't get into an argument about how we should see them as equally important, if you do then fahk you)...let's just say I lol'd.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 998
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 4,551
- Location
- my own little world
- Medical Student
point taken, in retrospect I'd agree. In doing these things (starting a company, working in large-firm finance, etc) the experiences sometimes run together and it beomes difficult to differentiate where the knowledge came from given the # of years and experiences since earning my MBA.
However, the finance courses (and large-firm operations finance experience) are helpful for assisting one to make a decision in small firm capital expenses.
My revised opinion is that I've met one person for whom it made sense to have both degrees, this individual is a practicing MD who also has executive level responsibilities in a mid-sized medical company. And I'd say one won't know if that's the path they'll pursue until they're well out of the MD program.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 30,872
- Reaction score
- 10,063
- Points
- 6,731
- Attending Physician
Lawyers don't ruin lives. Litigants ruin lives. Lawyers are just the necessary evil that makes this all possible. Without injured patients and without physicians serving as expert witnesses, no medmal suit ever gets off the ground. The lawyer really has nothing to do with the ruining of lives. He's just the scapegoat people like to point to when their ex, or their patient or their neighbor ruins their life.
In terms of more important, well, actually law schools predated med schools, so you could say society puts a lot more import on it than the above poster. But both are pretty essential to today's society. Without lawyers nothing in this world gets done. No business deals get made, no hospitals can be built, non-barter transactions do not occur. So yeah, I'd say they are the lynchpin of society, whether you like them or not. Without doctors we would all get sick and die at 30, like in the old days, but society would continue.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 30,872
- Reaction score
- 10,063
- Points
- 6,731
- Attending Physician
Yeah, which is why I agree with you that if one is going to get an MBA, they should do it at that point, well out of med school, and ideally on an employer's dime.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
- Joined
- May 26, 2007
- Messages
- 7,527
- Reaction score
- 4,516
- Points
- 6,841
- Attending Physician
I'm not sure about private practice, but keep in mind some hospital admin positions want you to have an MBA to advance. Like so many positions, it's less about being properly trained than being properly credentialed, and this is a very easy time for a lot of people to pick up the extra set of credentials.
One example: I've heard milimed is pushing for their officers to pick up an MBA before hitting general grade.
When someone hires a hitman to kill you, you don't think the hitman bears at least partial responsibility for his actions?
