MD Applicant - Decent Stats - Chances?

[Almighty Saguaro]

Don't worry about it ;-)

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[URMD]

Id say your golden, are you applying to MD school in Canada too?
Apply to a good range of top and mid-tier schools you will be fine in the american system

 

[UBC2014]

You should get plenty of interviews in Canada. Definitely apply to USMD as backup, will get many interviews.

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

Id say your golden, are you applying to MD school in Canada too?
Apply to a good range of top and mid-tier schools you will be fine in the american system

Not too sure on the classification of schools but here's my (unrefined) list in no particular order. I'm trying to cut this down to a more manageable list (15-20...what's a good number?) as my summer semester is very hectic (even without considering med school apps!).

Yeah, I applied in Canada (somewhat limitedly) last cycle and got no love (it seems a little more competitive that in the US?). Anyway, this cycle I'm taking nothing for granted and applying widely across Canada and US

Howard
Johns Hopkins
Emory
Northwestern-Feinberg
Dartmouth
Albany
Cornell
Oakland (OUWB)
Penn State
Jefferson
Michigan State
Case Western
NYU
NYMC
Georgetown
George Washington
Wayne State
Saint Louis
Boston USM
Columbia
U Chicago
Virginia Commonwealth
Rosalind Franklin
Mount Sinai
Meharry
Harvard (Getting a little unrealistic from here on )
Yale
Brown

 

[URMD]

@Goro is very good with school lists im sure he will pop in here and give his take.
Yeh,Canada is more competitive than U.S (especially if you're in ontario) but you should be able to get alot of interviews in Canada too with those stats and EC's.
Like I said you're golden.

I would add in Vanderbilt, Baylor, and mayo

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

Yeah, I'll look into those schools (though I feel like I may have done so but didn't add them to my list for some reason). I know I didn't add Mayo because I remember seeing an entry class of less than 50...

Lol, how do I make an appointment with this Goro guru?

 

[Goro]

You rang?


You're golden. Suggest swapping Rosy Franklin with Loyola, U Miami, or Tulane. Replace VCU and NYMC with Duke, Pitt and Hofstra.
Also consider UCLA/Drew.

Good list!. I think some 60-70 US MD schools accept international applicants, so you'll need to do your homework to see who you qualify for.

Howard
Johns Hopkins
Emory
Northwestern-Feinberg
Dartmouth
Albany
Cornell
Oakland (OUWB)
Penn State
Jefferson
Michigan State
Case Western
NYU
NYMC
Georgetown
George Washington
Wayne State
Saint Louis
Boston USM
Columbia
U Chicago
Virginia Commonwealth
Rosalind Franklin
Mount Sinai
Meharry
Harvard
Yale
Brown

Yeah, I'll look into those schools (though I feel like I may have done so but didn't add them to my list for some reason). I know I didn't add Mayo because I remember seeing an entry class of less than 50...

Lol, how do I make an appointment with this Goro guru?

 

[gyngyn]

You're golden. Suggest swapping Rosy Franklin with Loyola, U Miami, or Tulane. Replace VCU and NYMC with Duke, Pitt and Hofstra.
Also consider UCLA/Drew.

Good list!. I think some 60-70 US MD schools accept international applicants, so you'll need to do your homework to see who you qualify for.

Howard
Johns Hopkins
Emory
Northwestern-Feinberg
Dartmouth
Albany
Cornell
Oakland (OUWB)
Penn State
Jefferson
Michigan State
Case Western
NYU
NYMC
Georgetown
George Washington
Wayne State
Saint Louis
Boston USM
Columbia
U Chicago
Virginia Commonwealth
Rosalind Franklin
Mount Sinai
Meharry
Harvard
Yale
Brown

Neither Geffen nor Drew interviewed any internationals last year.

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

You rang?


You're golden. Suggest swapping Rosy Franklin with Loyola, U Miami, or Tulane. Replace VCU and NYMC with Duke, Pitt and Hofstra.
Also consider UCLA/Drew.

Good list!. I think some 60-70 US MD schools accept international applicants, so you'll need to do your homework to see who you qualify for.

Howard
Johns Hopkins
Emory
Northwestern-Feinberg
Dartmouth
Albany
Cornell
Oakland (OUWB)
Penn State
Jefferson
Michigan State
Case Western
NYU
NYMC
Georgetown
George Washington
Wayne State
Saint Louis
Boston USM
Columbia
U Chicago
Virginia Commonwealth
Rosalind Franklin
Mount Sinai
Meharry
Harvard
Yale
Brown

Would you mind explaining some of the rationale behind your suggestions...just so I can get a better understanding of the system and the important considerations
Yes, it seems there are quite a few institutions nominally accepting internationals or Canadians but based on published stats, some of them seem to only accept applications and the associated fees lol.

As well, re: the inclusion of Harvard, Yale, and the like? Initially, I had not included them because I didn't (don't) want to waste time and money on a long shot, but at the same time I don't want to preselect myself out if I may actually stand some chance. Thoughts?

 

[Goro]

Your numbers are highly competitive. The average MCAT score for US matriculants is 31, and GPA = 3.6.

Your numbers are more in line with the top tier schools.

Dig up posts on how to calculate "LizzyM score" in these forums, and compare your score to those on the list. You exceed or are close to a good number.

Being a URM also helps. Now cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth from all the hyperachievers who think they're entitled to a seat in med school simply because they have higher stats than you!

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

You rang?


You're golden. Suggest swapping Rosy Franklin with Loyola, U Miami, or Tulane. Replace VCU and NYMC with Duke, Pitt and Hofstra.
Also consider UCLA/Drew.

Good list!. I think some 60-70 US MD schools accept international applicants, so you'll need to do your homework to see who you qualify for.

I'm trying understand what you mean by 'swap'. Is that to say, for example, Rosalind Franklin may not be a great choice but Loyola and U Miami are? Or if I had to pick one school to apply to between Rosalind Franklin and Loyola, Loyola might be the better choice (without suggesting that Rosy Franklin is not a good choice)?

Maybe I'm over-complicating this...

 

[UBC2014]

Do you have a red flag on your app? I find it hard to believe you didn't even get any interviews in Canada with your stats alone. Your MCAT meets all cut-offs, that could hold back someone with a 3.9.

UWO should have been a gauranteed interview. Queens very likely.


You seem to imply your ECS are strong - so there must be something youre not telling us...

 

[UBC2014]

". I'll be graduating summer 2016 from a second entry professional undergraduate program"

Could it have been the fact that you applied while still in the first year of your professional program? Thus disqualifying you? I know schools want you to complete your masters before matriculation. Perhaps that is the case here..?

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

LOL, it's a online forum...there's a lot I'm not saying
The truth is that I don't know the answer to that question. As you've hypothesized, I reckon some schools might be a little funny about people who would have to terminate their masters (or professional program) to matriculate. I also don't really know what my referees wrote lol. Objectively, I have no reason to suspect any foul play per se but my gut feeling sometimes disagrees...I guess it's the only 'unknown'
And I was applying in my third year of undergrad so I would not have be admissible in schools like UWO (and some in Western Canada) that require applicants to be graduating prior to matriculation.

Regarding ECs, I wouldn't say they're my strongest suit. The stuff I summarized were probably the highlights of my ECs (and some of the stuff I mentioned did not apply at the time of my previous application).

 

[UBC2014]

1. LOL, it's a online forum...there's a lot I'm not saying
   The truth is that I don't know the answer to that question. As you've hypothesized, I reckon some schools might be a little funny about people who would have to terminate their masters (or professional program) to matriculate. I also don't really know what my referees wrote lol. Objectively, I have no reason to suspect any foul play per se but my gut feeling sometimes disagrees...I guess it's the only 'unknown'
   And I was applying in my third year of undergrad so I would not have be admissible in schools like UWO (and some in Western Canada) that require applicants to be graduating prior to matriculation.
   
   Regarding ECs, I wouldn't say they're my strongest suit. The stuff I summarized were probably the highlights of my ECs (and some of the stuff I mentioned did not apply at the time of my previous application).

   
   
   Im confused, you say you applied during 3rd year of undergrad, but then mention the professional program stipulation. Which is it? Did you not apply in your 4th year, and/or this current year cycle (the 1st year of your new program)?
   
   We can only provide our thoughts in a constructive manner, if you tell us clearly the steps you took to arrive at this point haha.
   
   
   

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

1. 
   
   
   Im confused, you say you applied during 3rd year of undergrad, but then mention the professional program stipulation. Which is it? Did you not apply in your 4th year, and/or this current year cycle (the 1st year of your new program)?
   

LOL, I'm guessing ad coms got confused too and decide 'forget this applicant...'

Maybe I'm confusing my use of 'cycle'. I applied in October 2014 (which is technically this cycle)...
Essentially, when I applied, I was not going to be graduating at the end of the academic year (i.e in June this year). So were I accepted this cycle, I would be skipping my last year of UG (and of my program) to start MD this Fall.

I don't know if that's a little more lucid...

At any rate, my inquiries now are pertaining to Fall 2016 matriculation. By that time, I will have (recently) received an undergraduate degree. So I'm hoping that the nature of my professional program won't affect me adversely this time around...

 

[UBC2014]

LOL, I'm guessing ad coms got confused too and decide 'forget this applicant...'

Maybe I'm confusing my use of 'cycle'. I applied in October 2014 (which is technically this cycle)...
Essentially, when I applied, I was not going to be graduating at the end of the academic year (i.e in June this year). So were I accepted this cycle, I would be skipping my last year of UG (and of my program) to start MD this Fall.

I don't know if that's a little more lucid...

At any rate, my inquiries now are pertaining to Fall 2016 matriculation. By that time, I will have (recently) received an undergraduate degree. So I'm hoping that the nature of my professional program won't affect me adversely this time around...

One post up, you said you applied as a 3rd year...

I'm confused, you said you are in the first year of your 2nd degree professional program right now? Or are you saying, that you did not complete your first degree, and switched into the 2nd degree program? That would make it a bit more clear haha.

I think perhaps its just a miscommunication, maybe it would be easier if you just wrote a breakdown of your academic?

Year 1: 1st yr Undergrad program, 3.x

Year 2: 2nd yr Undergrad program 3.x

Year 3(2013/2014): 3rd yr Undergrad program 3.x

Year 4(2014/2015): 1st year 2nd degree program

Is that the scenario then?

Most US schools want a completed degree, and you will have to ask around if the 2nd degree accelerated program will count or not (I suspect it will, but may not for some schools), if you didn't complete your first degree.

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

Don't worry about it ;-)

 

[UBC2014]

Okay, that makes sense then why you didn't get much love from canada since you're a 3rd year. Apply again next year as a 4th year and you'll probably have better luck.

But yah, apply to the US at the same time.

 

[Goro]

Schools like Rosy Franklin practice "Yield protection", which means they conserve their interview resources for handing out IIs for people most likely to come there. As schools, they're all fine, but Rosy might say "this kid will go to Yale or HMS, not here".

I'm trying understand what you mean by 'swap'. Is that to say, for example, Rosalind Franklin may not be a great choice but Loyola and U Miami are? Or if I had to pick one school to apply to between Rosalind Franklin and Loyola, Loyola might be the better choice (without suggesting that Rosy Franklin is not a good choice)?

Maybe I'm over-complicating this...

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

Schools like Rosy Franklin practice "Yield protection", which means they conserve their interview resources for handing out IIs for people most likely to come there. As schools, they're all fine, but Rosy might say "this kid will go to Yale or HMS, not here".

Interesting... that's a strange concept. So are the schools you listed (Rosalind Franklin, VCU and NYMC the only ones from my list that would potentially not send me a secondary because my stats are above their average (assuming I have correctly interpreted Your last post ) ?

 

[URMD]

They would probably send you a secondary, so that they can take your money of course. But then they would look at your stats and say "nope, no interview for you". Thats what hes saying.
It's not that strange of a concept when you think about it. Interviewing people takes time and resources. Why spend those if you have a very good idea that would will get an acceptance at a better school and never matriculate there? Its waste of their time and yours.

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

They would probably send you a secondary, so that they can take your money of course. But then they would look at your stats and say "nope, no interview for you". Thats what hes saying.
It's not that strange of a concept when you think about it. Interviewing people takes time and resources. Why spend those if you have a very good idea that would will get an acceptance at a better school and never matriculate there? Its waste of their time and yours.

Yeah, I guess pragmatically, it must make sense. By strange, I mean it's not an idea I'm used to. I would think that if an applicant is good, every school would want him/her. The idea of assuming that someone with above average stats will not come to your school seems kind of odd...I mean the person must have had a reason for applying.
So in terms of schools where that might be the case, do I essentially just not apply to schools where my stats are significantly above average or is it just certain schools where that's an important consideration?

 

[UBC2014]

They would probably send you a secondary, so that they can take your money of course. But then they would look at your stats and say "nope, no interview for you". Thats what hes saying.
It's not that strange of a concept when you think about it. Interviewing people takes time and resources. Why spend those if you have a very good idea that would will get an acceptance at a better school and never matriculate there? Its waste of their time and yours.

I would still apply to them, as they don't always do yield protection so strictly.

VCU especially will likely give you an interview.

 

[URMD]

The reasons that person is applying to that school is (often) so that he can increase his chances of getting in SOMEWHERE in that cycle. There are exceptions for example if you have ties to that area and have lived there, etc.
No, you can still apply as goro said only SOME schools do this, which I guess are the ones he mentioned.
But, my opinion is that unless you have a REAL reason for wanting to go to a particular school, you should limit your applications to schools were your stats are not more than 2SD above the mean.
I mean your initial post was trying to cut down on the school list to a manageable number, no? There will be plenty of schools in your range of stats that you can apply for, so try to limit it to those.

Unless you have unlimited cash and time to throw around, then just apply to all schools that your interested in regardless of stats. You can also brute force the proccess lol

 

[UBC2014]

Yeah, I guess pragmatically, it must make sense. By strange, I mean it's not an idea I'm used to. I would think that if an applicant is good, every school would want him/her. The idea of assuming that someone with above average stats will not come to your school seems kind of odd...I mean the person must have had a reason for applying.
So in terms of schools where that might be the case, do I essentially just not apply to schools where my stats are significantly above average or is it just certain schools where that's an important consideration?

Still apply to them all.

Let the school itself decide, not you pre-emptively not applying. Its too much of a crap shoot to be too selective either way.

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

Still apply to them all.

Let the school itself decide, not you pre-emptively not applying. Its too much of a crap shoot to be too selective either way.

All very reasonable...

What I haven't heard so far are schools (especially those on my 'list') where my stats may not quite cut it (i.e where I might not have a good shot). Any thoughts there?
Ultimately, I'd like to limit my list to 15ish schools where I can reasonably expect an interview, at least.

 

[URMD]

All very reasonable...

What I haven't heard so far are schools (especially those on my 'list') where my stats may not quite cut it (i.e where I might not have a good shot). Any thoughts there?
Ultimately, I'd like to limit my list to 15ish schools where I can reasonably expect an interview, at least.

The thing is your stats make it so that you can apply all top tier and still have a reasonable chance of interviewing. So even if you put all the top schools from rank 1-15 on your list no-one could say you wouldn't have a good shot at interviewing at any of them. (of course this wouldn't be smart because at that tier acceptance is much less about stats and more about other things).

But If I were to say SOMETHING then Columbia, Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, northwestern, case western, sinai, NYU, and U chicago all have average MCATs of 36+ for their accepted applicants. You have a 35, so you're still competitive. You're URM, so that probably makes up for it. So even with those I wouldn't remove them. heh

What I'm trying to say is that narrowing down your list on stats alone won't cut it. What you can do instead is do more research on each school, look at their mission statements and what kind of doctors they're best known for training (researchers? clinicians? what do they emphasize? what are their values? what is their location? can I imagine myself living in chicago for 4 years? boston? New york?) and pick schools that would seem like a good fit for you.

 

[UBC2014]

The thing is, with the top tiers, even if you're competitive for the top 20, its such a hit or miss, no one can say you're gauranteed anything there.

Also mission statements, "fit" and all that.

 

[Almighty Saguaro]

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