MD, DO or Caribbean?

[HIinternetfriends]

Hey everyone, i’m new on the forum and was just wanting some advice regarding my chances and where I should apply.

GPA at time of applying will be 3.2-3.35, MCAT 515, I have 4 letters of rec from 4 MD’s, volunteering with multiple organizations, I do have hospital volunteering, however, when I was “okay’d” to start, the gentleman at the HR office told me they offer no proof of hours for some reason? I guess to weed out people who just volunteer for community service? Anyways, I volunteered there for a few months anyways because I wasn’t just gonna not show up so somehow I have to find a way to communicate this to med schools without them thinking i’m lying. I have a research experience.. Currently doing cancer research. My GPA is where it is because I have a few C’s and a D+ in some random capstone course which was a grading error, it was supposed to be a C. I took it to a committee and still lost the “fight” against a professor who was tenured. (Of course). Retook another capstone course and got an A. Other than that, I did have to drop a semester due to health reasons and have documentation as well as “WC”’s on my transcript as a result. Since then my GPA has been 3.5 or higher. A’s in complex upper level bio courses, and my trend the last 3-4 semesters has been about a 3.6-3.7. Most of my C’s came in freshman sophomore year in math classes like calculus, precalc , etc. should I even try to apply to MD/DO schools or should I just apply to SGU?

Oh, I also have a real estate license so got when I turned 18 just to see if I could do it. Not sure if that’s relevant lol.


Please give a reasonable answer regarding SGU. If you don’t have any information on it, other than what’s been regurgitated on forums, please refrain. Anyways, thanks!

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[Faha]

Where is your state of residence ? Do you have any physician shadowing hours ? What are your other EC's besides hospital volunteering ?

 

[HIinternetfriends]

Where is your state of residence ? Do you have any physician shadowing hours ? What are your other EC's besides hospital volunteering ?

Southeast. Yeah, I shadowed a number of specialties, got 4 letters. Volunteering with different organizations that I would prefer not to mention as i’ve heard these forums are monitored by schools.

 

[Faha]

You are competitive for most DO schools so I suggest applying to these schools with your stats:
MU-COM
CCOM
DMU-COM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
AZCOM
TUNCOM
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia
CUSOM
VCOM (all 3 schools)
ACOM
UP-KYCOM
WVSOM
ARCOM
NYIT-Arkansas
You could also receive interviews at some MD schools and I suggest these:
Your state public schools
Vermont
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Seton Hall
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
George Washington
NOVA MD
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
Loyola
Creighton

 

[Goro]

Hey everyone, i’m new on the forum and was just wanting some advice regarding my chances and where I should apply.

GPA at time of applying will be 3.2-3.35, MCAT 515, I have 4 letters of rec from 4 MD’s, volunteering with multiple organizations, I do have hospital volunteering, however, when I was “okay’d” to start, the gentleman at the HR office told me they offer no proof of hours for some reason? I guess to weed out people who just volunteer for community service? Anyways, I volunteered there for a few months anyways because I wasn’t just gonna not show up so somehow I have to find a way to communicate this to med schools without them thinking i’m lying. I have a research experience.. Currently doing cancer research. My GPA is where it is because I have a few C’s and a D+ in some random capstone course which was a grading error, it was supposed to be a C. I took it to a committee and still lost the “fight” against a professor who was tenured. (Of course). Retook another capstone course and got an A. Other than that, I did have to drop a semester due to health reasons and have documentation as well as “WC”’s on my transcript as a result. Since then my GPA has been 3.5 or higher. A’s in complex upper level bio courses, and my trend the last 3-4 semesters has been about a 3.6-3.7. Most of my C’s came in freshman sophomore year in math classes like calculus, precalc , etc. should I even try to apply to MD/DO schools or should I just apply to SGU?

Oh, I also have a real estate license so got when I turned 18 just to see if I could do it. Not sure if that’s relevant lol.


Please give a reasonable answer regarding SGU. If you don’t have any information on it, other than what’s been regurgitated on forums, please refrain. Anyways, thanks!

You should not ever think about Carib schools.

I suggest:
Mt Sinai
U VA
Mayo (maybe)
Case (maybe)
U VM
U Toledo
USF Morsani
Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Rochester
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
Dartmouth
Seton Hall
MCW
Loyola
BU
Duke
Pitt
Hofstra
Tufts
Oakland-B
Western MI
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Nova MD
Your state school(s).
Any DO program. I can't recommend Touro-NY, Nova, Wm Carey, LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

You should not ever think about Carib schools.

I suggest:
Mt Sinai
U VA
Mayo (maybe)
Case (maybe)
U VM
U Toledo
USF Morsani
Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Rochester
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
Dartmouth
Seton Hall
MCW
Loyola
BU
Duke
Pitt
Hofstra
Tufts
Oakland-B
Western MI
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Nova MD
Your state school(s).
Any DO program. I can't recommend Touro-NY, Nova, Wm Carey, LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me.

What is the reasoning behind never considering Caribbean schools? I’ve Heard good and bad things, but the bad things come mainly, from people on forums who seem to say -relatively similar things, “just don’t do it”. And the good things I hear come from various physicians who are graduates of SGU and current students. I would only ever consider SGU if I were to apply to any Caribbean schools but obviously do have concerns regarding residency spot competitiveness. A deeper insight would be appreciated.

 

[capriccio]

What is the reasoning behind never considering Caribbean schools? I’ve Heard good and bad things, but the bad things come mainly, from people on forums who seem to say -relatively similar things, “just don’t do it”. And the good things I hear come from various physicians who are graduates of SGU and current students. I would only ever consider SGU if I were to apply to any Caribbean schools but obviously do have concerns regarding residency spot competitiveness. A deeper insight would be appreciated.

This was a write-up someone did on r/premed a while back about Caribbean schools, it's worth the read, and there are other linked opinions as well. There's also a linked post to one by gonnif which may explain to you why Caribbean may have been a viable option for physicians in the past. To me, they just seem extremely predatory and misleading—the amount of people who fail out completely and the amount of people who fail to match is terrifying, considering how much debt they are going into.

Are there success stories? Of course, there are always people who are smart and hardworking enough to make it through a situation where the deck is stacked against them. But my impression from reading some accounts from successful grads is that it's an excessively and unreasonably grueling path, in addition to being incredibly risky, and you come out the other end being viewed at a lower tier than US MD or US DO grads by residency programs.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

This was a write-up someone did on r/premed a while back about Caribbean schools, it's worth the read, and there are other linked opinions as well. There's also a linked post to one by gonnif which may explain to you why Caribbean may have been a viable option for physicians in the past. To me, they just seem extremely predatory and misleading—the amount of people who fail out completely and the amount of people who fail to match is terrifying, considering how much debt they are going into.

Are there success stories? Of course, there are always people who are smart and hardworking enough to make it through a situation where the deck is stacked against them. But my impression from reading some accounts from successful grads is that it's an excessively and unreasonably grueling path, in addition to being incredibly risky, and you come out the other end being viewed at a lower tier than US MD or US DO grads by residency programs.

Interesting opinion. When I look on SGU’s website, they claim to have had a match rate of 87% in 2018. Certainly not 97% like most US MD schools but i’m also not sure if that number is as alarming as people on forums make it out to be. So again, i’m having trouble understanding the disdain for SGU. As far as how an SGU grad would be perceived in residency, i’m not sure why they would be looked down upon. Are all IMG students perceived “low tier” to US MD/DO’s? Lol sounds a bit condescending as i’ve met doctors who are IMG’s and they’re incredible physicians who I would trust with my own life. At the end of they day, SGU students take the same board exams as students in the US so I guess I’m missing the mark as to why they would be perceived as low tier.

 

[gyngyn]

Interesting opinion. When I look on SGU’s website, they claim to have had a match rate of 87% in 2018. Certainly not 97% like most US MD schools but i’m also not sure if that number is as alarming as people on forums make it out to be. So again, i’m having trouble understanding the disdain for SGU. As far as how an SGU grad would be perceived in residency, i’m not sure why they would be looked down upon. Are all IMG students perceived “low tier” to US MD/DO’s? Lol sounds a bit condescending as i’ve met doctors who are IMG’s and they’re incredible physicians who I would trust with my own life. At the end of they day, SGU students take the same board exams as students in the US so I guess I’m missing the mark as to why they would be perceived as low tier.

"Claim" is the appropriate verb. 87% of whom? ...the number that made it past year 2? ...the number allowed to sit for Step 1?
How can an applicant make a well-informed decision if reliable and critical information is withheld?
What kind of organization refuses to make this information available?

 

[HIinternetfriends]

"Claim" is the appropriate verb. 87% of whom? ...the number that made it past year 2? ...the number allowed to sit for Step 1?
How can an applicant make a well-informed decision if reliable and critical information is withheld?
What kind of organization refuses to make this information available?

I’m not sure what % of the starting class that 87% is referring to but I could do some digging. But more importantly, are you suggesting that they purposely witthold information from perspective students? Because that would almost become illegal in my opinion, especially given it’s a private, for profit school. I know they accept a large starting class and I would imagine the % that doesn’t complete the MD program is rather large, given the relaxed academic requirements. So the question then becomes, are the ones who are failing that group of students who should not have been there to begin with.

 

[capriccio]

Interesting opinion. When I look on SGU’s website, they claim to have had a match rate of 87% in 2018. Certainly not 97% like most US MD schools but i’m also not sure if that number is as alarming as people on forums make it out to be. So again, i’m having trouble understanding the disdain for SGU. As far as how an SGU grad would be perceived in residency, i’m not sure why they would be looked down upon. Are all IMG students perceived “low tier” to US MD/DO’s? Lol sounds a bit condescending as i’ve met doctors who are IMG’s and they’re incredible physicians who I would trust with my own life. At the end of they day, SGU students take the same board exams as students in the US so I guess I’m missing the mark as to why they would be perceived as low tier.

Ok, I realized the original links to the NRMP data in the reddit post are outdated, so here is the official data compiled by NRMP in 2014 about applicants from IMGs. If you go to section 15, where it sorts the matches by country, you can see that for US IMGs from Grenada (aka SGU), 534 students matched while 258 did not match at all, which means their match rate was 67%!! This is also not accounting for the students who end up failing out of SGU/Carib schools before they have the chance to match. That is a far cry from what SGU claims (and implies that they post misleading information on their website), and an even farther cry from US MD match rates. Additionally, only about 50% of US IMGs overall matched to their preferred specialty in 2018, while about 91% of US MD grads overall matched to their preferred specialty (data in Chart 3). Additionally, US DO grads matched to their preferred specialty at a rate of 82.6% (source). Unfortunately NRMP's 2018 review of the match did not include match rates by country in their IMG data sheet, but I am skeptical that any school's match rate could jump up 20% in just 4 years.

Perhaps lower tier wasn't the best word choice, but it's not condescending to say that IMGs are at a massive disadvantage when applying to residency compared to US grads. We are not talking about the quality of the people who do successfully match and go on to have good careers, we are talking about how going the Carib route and by extension the SGU route is an incredibly risky venture where you have a high chance that you may not match into the specialty you want or even have a career as a physician.

 

[gyngyn]

I’m not sure what % of the starting class that 87% is referring to but I could do some digging. But more importantly, are you suggesting that they purposely withhold information from prespecfive students? Because that would almost become illegal in my opinion, especially given it’s a private, for profit school. I know they accept a large starting class and I would imagine the % that doesn’t complete the MD program is rather large, given the relaxed academic requirements. So the question then becomes, are the ones who are failing that group of students who should not have been there to begin with.

I am not suggesting that the Caribbean schools withhold vital information, I am asserting it as fact. This degree of obfuscation would not be tolerated on US soil. "Legal" has an entirely different meaning in the Caribbean.
Their business model requires that a significant number of those who start must not make it to year 3. They don't have any chance at finding clinical sites for them.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

I am not suggesting that the Caribbean schools withhold vital information, I am asserting it as fact. This degree of obfuscation would not be tolerated on US soil. "Legal" has an entirely different meaning in the Caribbean.
Their business model requires that a significant number of those who start must not make it to year 3. They don't have any chance at finding clinical sites for them.

This blows my mind given the fact that students who go here are taking out loans granted by the US TAXPAYERS! What the hell! Normally, I would never consider a carribean school, but the fact that US schools only start once a year means i’d have to wait almost two years before starting med school and as much as I don’t like to rush into things, I don’t like putting them for two extra years either. Still blows my mind that the application process takes so long for US schools. Thank you for the information.

 

[gyngyn]

This blows my mind given the fact that students who go here are taking out loans granted by the US TAXPAYERS!

Remarkable, isn't it.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

Ok, I realized the original links to the NRMP data in the reddit post are outdated, so here is the official data compiled by NRMP in 2014 about applicants from IMGs. If you go to section 15, where it sorts the matches by country, you can see that for US IMGs from Grenada (aka SGU), 534 students matched while 258 did not match at all, which means their match rate was 67%!! This is also not accounting for the students who end up failing out of SGU/Carib schools before they have the chance to match. That is a far cry from what SGU claims (and implies that they post misleading information on their website), and an even farther cry from US MD match rates. Additionally, only about 50% of US IMGs overall matched to their preferred specialty in 2018, while about 91% of US MD grads overall matched to their preferred specialty (data in Chart 3). Additionally, US DO grads matched to their preferred specialty at a rate of 82.6% (source). Unfortunately NRMP's 2018 review of the match did not include match rates by country in their IMG data sheet, but I am skeptical that any school's match rate could jump up 20% in just 4 years.

Perhaps lower tier wasn't the best word choice, but it's not condescending to say that IMGs are at a massive disadvantage when applying to residency compared to US grads. We are not talking about the quality of the people who do successfully match and go on to have good careers, we are talking about how going the Carib route and by extension the SGU route is an incredibly risky venture where you have a high chance that you may not match into the specialty you want or even have a career as a physician.

Interesting. As a I stated on the other comment, my biggest obstacle is the gap year. I really don’t wanna take a gap (technically 2 years), especially considering my stats aren’t that great and I don’t even know if i’d get accepted.

 

[Ad2b]

Of the 4 people that I know personally, who went to AUC, all 4 graduated, got residencies, and are practicing physicians in the US.

HOWEVER, 2 of them are married to each other and the one, has practicing physicians for parents who are also on committees for residencies where ... you get the idea

The other 2; one is plastic surgeon out in LA and the other is a PCP in the SE.

ALL of them had financial support that did NOT include any Federal funding, and all of them graduated BEFORE the residency programs were combined.

Now: MD/DO compete for the same residency spots and the Carib comes after that ... that's a huge issue now for Carib schools.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

Of the 4 people that I know personally, who went to AUC, all 4 graduated, got residencies, and are practicing physicians in the US.

HOWEVER, 2 of them are married to each other and the one, has practicing physicians for parents who are also on committees for residencies where ... you get the idea

The other 2; one is plastic surgeon out in LA and the other is a PCP in the SE.

ALL of them had financial support that did NOT include any Federal funding, and all of them graduated BEFORE the residency programs were combined.

Now: MD/DO compete for the same residency spots and the Carib comes after that ... that's a huge issue now for Carib schools.

That is pretty much my biggest question regarding SGU is the MD/DO merger. However, it is my understanding that SGU has a specific number of residency spots that they are designated each cycle. Idk what the exact number is, but I believe they are given X amount of spots regardless. Not sure if that’s true.

 

[gyngyn]

Not sure if that’s true.

It is not true.
DO's have residencies that were previously AOA. They can show preference for DO's by requiring OMM recognition.
There are no residency spots reserved for Caribbean IMG's.

 

[el_duderino]

There are no residency spots designated for any particular school or student, whether SGU or Harvard. That's not how residency match works.

The Caribbean thing had been beaten to death. Even the best Caribbean schools only end up matching 60-70% of the students that matriculate, if that. We don't know because they don't give us the actual numbers. I wonder why? They also provide significantly less student support, which is ironic because the students that need the most help and supervision are the ones that end up in the Caribbean.

You're talking about a business working with tons of guaranteed money (loans), a very desperate customer base, and virtually zero regulatory oversight. In what universe does that lead to anything but significantly predatory behavior?

Anyway, back to the point, apply broadly to MD and DO. Goro's list is very good. If given the opportunity, be humble about your mistakes and own responsibility. Don't blame some professor's grading error, even if that's what happened. Focus on what you did wrong and how you've grown and taken steps to prevent it from happening again.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

There are no residency spots designated for any particular school or student, whether SGU or Harvard. That's not how residency match works.

The Caribbean thing had been beaten to death. Even the best Caribbean schools only end up matching 60-70% of the students that matriculate, if that. We don't know because they don't give us the actual numbers. I wonder why? They also provide significantly less student support, which is ironic because the students that need the most help and supervision are the ones that end up in the Caribbean.

You're talking about a business working with tons of guaranteed money (loans), a very desperate customer base, and virtually zero regulatory oversight. In what universe does that lead to anything but significantly predatory behavior?

Anyway, back to the point, apply broadly to MD and DO. Goro's list is very good. If given the opportunity, be humble about your mistakes and own responsibility. Don't blame some professor's grading error, even if that's what happened. Focus on what you did wrong and how you've grown and taken steps to prevent it from happening again.

Are there not more residency spots now given the fact that the previous spots that were strictly for DO’s are open for all MD students now as well? I still don’t understand why a DO student would get priority over an MD, regardless of whether they went to SGU or a school within the borders of the US.

 

[el_duderino]

Are there not more residency spots now given the fact that the previous spots that were strictly for DO’s are open for all MD students now as well? I still don’t understand why a DO student would get priority over an MD, regardless of whether they went to SGU or a school within the borders of the US.

DO over Caribbean MD because the DO students are generally stronger. There's usually a reason a student ends up at a Caribbean school instead of an American one. Furthermore, the more foreign graduates your residency program has, the worse it looks and the harder it will be to recruit good students.

The standards to which DO and USMD schools are held in terms of curriculum, student services, clinical rotations, resources, etc, are far higher than Caribbean schools. An LCME school would lose its accreditation overnight if only 2/3 of matriculants matched. For Caribbean schools matching 2/3 of matriculants would be a huge success.

It would be a mistake of massive proportions to choose a Caribbean school over a DO school. But then again, students frankly don't end up at Caribbean schools because they have a track record of good judgment. Which also answers your question of why choose a DO student over a Caribbean one.

To be clear, students who graduate Caribbean programs and match make fine physicians. It's just that SGU fails out ten times as many students as US MD schools, and their graduates are less competitive for residencies.

Let me reverse your question: who would a PD choose a Caribbean MD over a DO? Do you think there's something inherently better about the letters MD? Or do you think Caribbean schools do a better job educating students?

 

[HIinternetfriends]

DO over Caribbean MD because the DO students are generally stronger. There's usually a reason a student ends up at a Caribbean school instead of an American one. Furthermore, the more foreign graduates your residency program has, the worse it looks and the harder it will be to recruit good students.

The standards to which DO and USMD schools are held in terms of curriculum, student services, clinical rotations, resources, etc, are far higher than Caribbean schools. An LCME school would lose its accreditation overnight if only 2/3 of matriculants matched. For Caribbean schools matching 2/3 of matriculants would be a huge success.

It would be a mistake of massive proportions to choose a Caribbean school over a DO school. But then again, students frankly don't end up at Caribbean schools because they have a track record of good judgment. Which also answers your question of why choose a DO student over a Caribbean one.

To be clear, students who graduate Caribbean programs and match make fine physicians. It's just that SGU fails out ten times as manu students as US MD schools, and their graduates are less competitive for residencies.

Let me reverse your question: who would a PD choose a Caribbean MD over a DO? Do you think there's something inherently better about the letters MD? Or do you think Caribbean schools do a better job educating students?

Regarding the curriculum, is it not the same, or relatively the same curriculum across the board? IMG’s still sit for the same board exams if i’m not mistaking, so as I stated before, i’m not sure how the curriculum argument holds any weight as I haven’t seen much of a difference between SGU (specifically) and other US MD/DO schools. You can argue that the faculty at SGU is not up to par, but I believe at the end of the day, it’s about what the student puts into it more than anything. I agree, it seems the student support offered is not even close to that offered by US MD/DO, but I would contribute that to the large number of students SGU takes in each class. But, maybe i’m wrong.

 

[Ad2b]

SGU has a specific number of residency spots

I cannot speak for SGU but for the people who went to AUC, they missed part of M3 waiting for clinical rotations to be aligned and assigned, then had to do them in UK for 6 months before returning to US to finish up.

That cost - UK, traveling, back to US, etc. - was NOT covered as part of funding - dear old mom and dad footed that bill too.

I'm older than most and *I* would not do Carib though 10 years ago, I considered it.

 

[el_duderino]

Regarding the curriculum, is it not the same, or relatively the same curriculum across the board? IMG’s still sit for the same board exams if i’m not mistaking, so as I stated before, i’m not sure how the curriculum argument holds any weight as I haven’t seen much of a difference between SGU (specifically) and other US MD/DO schools. You can argue that the faculty at SGU is not up to par, but I believe at the end of the day, it’s about what the student puts into it more than anything. I agree, it seems the student support offered is not even close to that offered by US MD/DO, but I would contribute that to the large number of students SGU takes in each class. But, maybe i’m wrong.

By all means, go Caribbean. You would fit right in.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Do not go Caribbean. It is a total crapshoot as to whether you will graduate and become a doctor. There is a good chance you may be left holding the bag, hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. That being said: you are a strong DO candidate, with a GPA that's on the low side for DO schools but a solid upward trend. You also have a good MCAT. As for the MD schools: from their perspective, the upward trend isn't great but it's better than nothing and with luck you'll be treated like a 3.4 or 3.5. And you've got the good MCAT.

You have a decent chance at state MD schools and a fighting chance at mid-tier MD schools, while being a solid DO candidate. There isn't any need to consider the Caribbean Crapshoot at all; not only is it a massive gamble, but you are selling yourself short competitiveness-wise. If you don't get in this cycle try a DIY postbacc, but with a broad list of DO schools plus your state MD schools and some midtiers you should receive a few interview invites this go round. Good luck, and don't go Caribbean.

 

[Isoval]

It’s fairly clear to me that you’ve already decided that Caribbean schools are worthwhile despite all of us trying to beat into you that it’s a terrible, terrible idea.

Here’s my short list:
1) The match rates, compared to US MD/DO, are abysmal. Even if we take the 87% that you present to be of matriculants, that’s still piss poor. It’s worse than almost every single US medical school. My school matches about 99% every year...varies up or down a percent every year. Now that we’ve established that 87% is already trash-tier match rate, let’s outline the problems of how they arrived at 87%: a) A lot of their class matches transitional/rotational internship slots. That’s bad. b) Many of the Caribbean schools give a multi-year average of their matches. (e.g. someone who didn’t match last year who matched this year will raise the match rate).
2) The board scores and pass rates, compared to US MD/DO, are abysmal. And this is considering that they have a) already failed out a third of the class and b) only allow you to sit for the exam after scoring a certain score on a prepatory exam. Inexplicably, their first time pass rates are still generally under 90% and the averages are well below US averages.
3) To all of the physicians that you’ve spoken with: the landscape is different now. Back when they went through the Caribbean, there were far fewer US medical schools and far more residency spots going unfilled. Today, there are more applicant than residency spots. Why in the hell would a US residency take a student who is not a US-trained student when there are ten lined up outside the door with competent stats? Those students were trained here. They rotated here. They made the decision to be in this country. There are far fewer programs today who would be interested in taking a Caribbean student. While the number of programs interested in DO students continues to increase linearly year over year, the number of programs interested in IMGs decreases year over year.
4) Ross SOM recently had to teach their students on a f***ing ship. This should be all that needs to be said.

I have more but it’s late and I have an 8am quiz. If you go and fail out or don’t match, it’s not my money /shrug.

 

[capriccio]

Regarding the curriculum, is it not the same, or relatively the same curriculum across the board? IMG’s still sit for the same board exams if i’m not mistaking, so as I stated before, i’m not sure how the curriculum argument holds any weight as I haven’t seen much of a difference between SGU (specifically) and other US MD/DO schools. You can argue that the faculty at SGU is not up to par, but I believe at the end of the day, it’s about what the student puts into it more than anything. I agree, it seems the student support offered is not even close to that offered by US MD/DO, but I would contribute that to the large number of students SGU takes in each class. But, maybe i’m wrong.

I'm not well-versed enough to speak about the specific curriculum at SGU, but like I said in an earlier post, according to NRMP in 2014, 67% is the rate that SGU grads match into ANY program, not necessarily their preferred specialty/program—if we take into account that only 50% of Carib grads match into their preferred specialty (2018 NRMP data) and assume that applies to SGU, then only 30-40% of SGU grads match into their preferred specialty. This massive discrepancy in success compared to the AVERAGE US MD/DO means that there's SOMETHING, whether it's poor quality of applicants, poor quality of their education and curriculum, or poor opinion toward Carib schools, (or most likely a combination of all three!) that is having very real and negative consequences for SGU grads when they try to match.

Also, you really think quality of education/curriculum is independent of faculty support/quality? Bad leadership and poor faculty support tend to lead to unhappy and struggling students, and you've already agreed that SGU doesn't come close to US programs in that regard. We can go around all day in circles about how a truly motivated and intelligent student can figure their way out of a bad situation, but take that risk when there are much safer options?? Why make it deliberately hard for yourself?? Why deliberately give yourself extra obstacles when medical school is already hard as it is? Why deliberately go to a school with high fail rates and low match rates??

People have already told you that you have a good shot for DO with a chance at US MD. There's no need to keep thinking about SGU.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Any logical/reasonable person knows that USMD>>USDO>>>>>>>>>>>>CaribbeanMD.
The latter should always be your last resort after multiple attempts of trying to get in a school state side. The match data are out there, and they prove how at a disadvantage an IMG is compared to a US MD/DO student. Med school is hard wherever you go why put more obstacles on your path when your stats are perfectly fine to get you an acceptance state side. Everyone going to SGU thinks they are gonna be one of the ~50% that will succeed, but the reality is they can't all make it, and even those that make it to 4th year have a hard getting into residency on the first try while every subsequent year it becomes less and less likely that they will match. And trust me you don't wanna be 400K in debt with nothing to show for it, so don't be stubborn, listen to the voice of reason, and make the right decision here.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

I cannot speak for SGU but for the people who went to AUC, they missed part of M3 waiting for clinical rotations to be aligned and assigned, then had to do them in UK for 6 months before returning to US to finish up.

That cost - UK, traveling, back to US, etc. - was NOT covered as part of funding - dear old mom and dad footed that bill too.

I'm older than most and *I* would not do Carib though 10 years ago, I considered it.

By all means, go Caribbean. You would fit right in.

Insults are a sign of high intelligence.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

Do not go Caribbean. It is a total crapshoot as to whether you will graduate and become a doctor. There is a good chance you may be left holding the bag, hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. That being said: you are a strong DO candidate, with a GPA that's on the low side for DO schools but a solid upward trend. You also have a good MCAT. As for the MD schools: from their perspective, the upward trend isn't great but it's better than nothing and with luck you'll be treated like a 3.4 or 3.5. And you've got the good MCAT. You have a decent chance at state MD schools and a fighting chance at mid-tier MD schools, while being a solid DO candidate. There isn't any need to consider the Caribbean Crapshoot at all; not only is it a massive gamble, but you are selling yourself short competitiveness-wise. If you don't get in this cycle try a DIY postbacc, but with a broad list of DO schools plus your state MD schools and some midtiers you should receive a few interview invites this go round. Good luck, and don't go Caribbean.

I appreciate the valuable insight and will most likely be using the carribean as a last resort, thank you.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

Any logical/reasonable person knows that USMD>>USDO>>>>>>>>>>>>CaribbeanMD.
The latter should always be your last resort after multiple attempts of trying to get in a school state side. The match data are out there, and they prove how at a disadvantage an IMG is compared to a US MD/DO student. Med school is hard wherever you go why put more obstacles on your path when your stats are perfectly fine to get you an acceptance state side. Everyone going to SGU thinks they are gonna be one of the ~50% that will succeed, but the reality is they can't all make it, and even those that make it to 4th year have a hard getting into residency on the first try while every subsequent year it becomes less and less likely that they will match. And trust me you don't wanna be 400K in debt with nothing to show for it, so don't be stubborn, listen to the voice of reason, and make the right decision here.

I’m completely listening and retaining all the information being given, simply asking questions and having an interesting conversation regarding carribean schools.

 

[Isoval]

I’m completely listening and retaining all the information being given, simply asking questions and having an interesting conversation regarding carribean schools.

It’s not really an interesting conversation if you’re the only one here with a “pro” position on Caribbean schools. More accurately, this is a slaughterfest.

I think you’d be better off going vet or DPM or something instead of Caribbean. It shouldn’t be a last choice. It shouldn’t be a choice at all.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

It’s not really an interesting conversation if you’re the only one here with a “pro” position on Caribbean schools. More accurately, this is a slaughterfest.

I think you’d be better off going vet or DPM or something instead of Caribbean. It shouldn’t be a last choice. It shouldn’t be a choice at all.

“Slaughterfest” Lmao. What a ridiculous statement. You’re upset and offended by someone asking questions about something, let that sink.

 

[HIinternetfriends]

It’s not really an interesting conversation if you’re the only one here with a “pro” position on Caribbean schools. More accurately, this is a slaughterfest.

I think you’d be better off going vet or DPM or something instead of Caribbean. It shouldn’t be a last choice. It shouldn’t be a choice at all.

I don’t know what medical school you go to but could you tell me so I can stay away from it at all cost? You are miserable! Look at your responses!!

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Does anybody ever think, there's a reason why these Caribbean schools are in the Caribbean and not on American soil? Theres a reason why they are not allowed here.

 

[sixersfan]

Your GPA and MCAT are competitive for many DO schools and some MD schools, they should be your only option. You would just be setting yourself back even more by deciding to go Caribbean, whereas you have a shot at getting into any of the schools that Goro or Faha listed. Sure, while medical school is what you make of it, and you decide your fate of residency, your chances at getting into your residency of choice are much much much larger with any USMD or USDO school. Many schools favor the MCAT over GPA, and I say this because I have seen, first hand, many people get rejected from MD schools with a high GPA/low MCAT but then many others get accepted with a low GPA/high MCAT. And your MCAT is competitive for many schools.

You ask for advice, people are giving it. Don't get annoyed when people give their input.

Best of luck

 

[Isoval]

“Slaughterfest” Lmao. What a ridiculous statement. You’re upset and offended by someone asking questions about something, let that sink.

When did I ever give you the impression I was upset?

Count the number of people on this thread defending Caribbean with you. I count zero. Sounds like a slaughter fest to me.

 

[el_duderino]

I don’t know what medical school you go to but could you tell me so I can stay away from it at all cost? You are miserable! Look at your responses!!

You would be well advised to drop the contrary, argumentative attitude and actually listen to the people who have been there and done that. You're talking about a 4+ year, $300,000+ purchase of a process and degree you know vanishingly little about.

 

[Ad2b]

:troll:

 

[Walter Raleigh]

I appreciate the valuable insight and will most likely be using the carribean as a last resort, thank you.

Even as a last resort, it is a complete and utter crapshoot. Do not apply to a Caribbean school this cycle. You are selling yourself short hugely and are making a gigantic gamble, when you could be holding an acceptance to an American medical school this time next year.

 

[SAC 1008]

As a current Caribbean student at UMHS, I am currently applying to attend another school and start all over because our curriculum is sub-par, we have one person on campus that has taken the Step 1, There are others once we go back to the states but most of them completed school before the 1990's and do not have the vision to make the change to improve the opportunity of the students. The reason being at our school we are heavily Puerto Rican population and they are being told to just pass the Step 1 and 2 exam and they can come back to Puerto Rico and get good residencies which is not the same for main island US students. So the school is OK with the status quo and do not plan on making any changes to make us a better school with more successful students

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Why would anyone go to a no name Caribbean school to begin with? I'm from the Caribbean, and I, myself, have never heard of UMHS.