MD doubts

[DrMattOglesby]

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I am currently having doubts about applying to MD schools for my medical education.
The cause of my doubt stems from my high accordance with the DO philosophy as well as my appreciation of the manipulative training received.
My application is very competitive right now for DO programs and I would be completely happy to attend any of the schools I am applying to.
the MD schools, on the other hand, are not EXACTLY in locations where I would pick as my first destination for a vacation. Save for all but two schools that is. George Washington University offers clinicals to be done in the Pacific Rim Basin, and FIU is in Miami. Those are really the only two places I could see myself being super excited about in terms of location. All the other facilities are in colder places where I don't think I'll be as happy to live in.
I have submitted my MD application but I still have time to withdraw my application and get all my money back except for $160.
In the end, if I withdrew, I'd save $2,100 in primaries and non-screened secondaries. A lot of which could easily go towards interview trips with the DO schools.
Another point, I had first considered a career in the health field as a chiropractor back when I was 17. I haven't lost my enthusiasm for manipulation, I have simply gained a greater appreciation of modern medicine. The DO schools are a perfect blend of the two.
...with the way im writing this right now, i think I am either trying to convince myself to drop out of the MD pursui, OR my subconscious is trying to tell me something in this free-write exercise of my journal.
I am notorious for taking aeons to make decisions...what would you do in my shoes?

love,
Matt

 

[spicedmanna]

I say forget about the degree designation and apply to the schools you like and think you would attend... If it includes some allopathic schools, cool. If not, that's cool, too. Simply pick the schools to apply to that you think you'll be happiest attending.

Basically, there isn't much difference, education-wise, between the two types of medical schools. I admit, though, it's probably hard to see that at this stage in the game. Pick the schools you are aligned with most, to include location, curriculum, mission, rotations, COA, and other features important to you. There is no DO "philosophy" in this day and age that isn't common sense practice. OMM is essentially the only real distinction I can think of, even after one year of medical school at a well-established osteopathic program. You don't need to have attended an osteopathic medical school to learn it. It is possible to learn it later. However, if you feel that you'd be happier learning it as part of the medical school curriculum, where it is integrated with the other basic sciences, attending an osteopathic medical school might be a good choice. Make you sure examine the quality, location, and structure of the rotations at osteopathic medical schools carefully, though.

 

[spicedmanna]

Another reason to apply to a school if you have an interest in attending, is that you may be surprised by it during interview day. You may find out that while it was near the bottom of your preference list when you first made your application, you now love the program after your visit. Your view can change as you learn more about the program; you may find that it fits you well.

 

[meggielou]

Another reason to apply to a school if you have an interest in attending, is that you may be surprised by it during interview day. You may find out that while it was near the bottom of your preference list when you first made your application, you now love the program after your visit. Your view can change as you learn more about the program; you may find that it fits you well.

Matt, like you said, it sounds like you've already made your decision. If you're worried about the financial aspect of applying, is there any way you could cut back how many MD schools you're applying to? I think you have a great shot at DO schools, so unless you really want to go MD or to a specific school, it might not be necessary to apply. Good luck!

 

[gasapple]

You forgot to include the option "no one cares what Matt does". 😉 😀

 

[RySerr21]

i voted for keep MD alive but only send in secondaries to the two schools you mentioned in your original post. it sucks that you lose that money on the other schools, but really if you could only see yourself happy at 2 MD schools, then only apply to those schools and save money for DO secondaries/interviews like you said.at this stage in the game your best bet would be to only fill out those two secondaries. thats just my opinion. i konw i tried my best to only pick schools i felt i would enjoy attending. if you already have reasons that you dislike the schools, then its probably not worth puttin in the money/time. good luck either way.

 

[NTF]

I say stick to DO schools. The best recipe for success is to be happy where you are and excited about what your doing. I think osteopathic medicine is a great way to go. All the DO's I've met (especially those who completed their training recently) have been stellar clinicians and awesome people to boot. I talked to the attendings where I work and all of them speak highly of their DO residents. Save the money. Do what will give you the most fulfillment and happiness.

The institutional bias against DO's is fading fast. Nearly nonexistent in medicine specialties. There's still some bias on the surgerical side and with some competitive residency programs. It's not that they won't take DOs, it's just that they want to see something special from DO candidates above what they expect from allo candidates. My friend graduated DO from Ohio University and got into an orthopedic surgical residency, but he readily admits he had to go the extra extra mile to tailor his medical education to showing his skill, aptitude, and commitment to surgery and orthopedics.

The only other thing the attendings said about DO's is that there is still institutional bias against promoting them to Chief or Director positions at major universities. But honestly, I think by the time any of us have built the kinds of credentials to be even considered as Chief or Director of an entire department at a large school, that bias will have faded too.

DO's rock.

 

[engineeredout]

If I were you, since you've gone through all the work already, I'd keep the allo application submitted and just see what happens. You're going to be spending a few 100K on school over the next few years, no reason to cheap out now. You might find yourself interviewed at an allopathic school that you fall in love with. You'll never know unless you give it a shot.

 

[DragonWell]

I say forget about the degree designation and apply to the schools you like and think you would attend... If it includes some allopathic schools, cool. If not, that's cool, too. Simply pick the schools to apply to that you think you'll be happiest attending.
....

I think spiced said it all with the above.

Despite the oft-quoted rhetoric to the contrary, in reality you will be hard pressed to find any tangible differences in the philosophy or practice of MD vs DO today.

As far as the OMM training goes, although I do think there is some benefit in simply getting your hands on people, I wouldn't put too much weight on the OMM training. I learned much more about practical management and treatment of the MSK system during my year long massage therapy training than I learned in two years of OMM training. Maybe it used to be different, but, IMHO, today's OMM curriculum is much more focused on passing the boards than on teaching students to really manage patients.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

I agree with the above post. MONEY is an issue, but in reality a drop in the bucket. I definitely would like you to go where you are happy, but if there are a few MD programs you might be happy at, try it.

But, if the money saved would mean more interview possibilities for DO, it might be more of a difficult decision.

Best of luck.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

from your responses, this is what i got:

There is essentially little to no difference anymore between the two medical educations these days. I should base my applications on specific fit with school rather than my affinity for 'osteopathic philosophy.'

I think I'll go with the popular opinion on this matter and keep my MD application alive. I would probably wonder "what if..." for a long time if I decided to retract now. I only mentioned two schools I'd be crazy about attending, but there are 9 others I would find myself happy as well.
Just as a point, I wrote this because I had concerns that I might regret NOT going to a DO school had I been accepted to an MD school. Medicine is Medicine and Doctors are Doctors...and tautologies are tautologies 😉
again, thanks for everyone's opinions on the matter.
sorry if it sounded like another MD vs DO thread, that was not my intention.😳

oh, and as far as locales for med schools go: Napa CA is NOT my first choice of places to live...but I still managed to do well in all my classes anyways. Med school isnt meant to be a vacation and I'll probably see myself hunkered down in libraries more than anywhere else! If I can train for and complete an IronMan, I'm sure I can endure a couple years outside my ideal comfort zone.

-matt

 

[Instatewaiter]

Just as a point, I wrote this because I had concerns that I might regret NOT going to a DO school had I been accepted to an MD school.

Based on your stats it looks like you will have some luck at DO schools and maybe at some MD schools. Make sure you would attend every school you apply to. I have seen a ton of threads in the past month of: "I got into X school but I dont really want to go there, what should I do."

So, if there is a location or curriculum aspect that you really dont like, take it off the list now.

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

from your responses, this is what i got:

There is essentially little to no difference anymore between the two medical educations these days. I should base my applications on specific fit with school rather than my affinity for 'osteopathic philosophy.'

I think I'll go with the popular opinion on this matter and keep my MD application alive. I would probably wonder "what if..." for a long time if I decided to retract now. I only mentioned two schools I'd be crazy about attending, but there are 9 others I would find myself happy as well.
Just as a point, I wrote this because I had concerns that I might regret NOT going to a DO school had I been accepted to an MD school. Medicine is Medicine and Doctors are Doctors...and tautologies are tautologies 😉
again, thanks for everyone's opinions on the matter.
sorry if it sounded like another MD vs DO thread, that was not my intention.😳

oh, and as far as locales for med schools go: Napa CA is NOT my first choice of places to live...but I still managed to do well in all my classes anyways. Med school isnt meant to be a vacation and I'll probably see myself hunkered down in libraries more than anywhere else! If I can train for and complete an IronMan, I'm sure I can endure a couple years outside my ideal comfort zone.

-matt

I agree with what most others have said at this point...apply to all the MD and DO schools you can see yourself realistically attending. The only exception (which is I think is pretty rare at your stage of the game) is if you know that you want to enter a highly competitive specialty (derm, ortho, plastics, etc.). If this is the case, I'd beef up the # of MD schools you're applying to. If this isn't a priority, disregard everything I wrote other than the first sentence. Best of luck.

 

[Dienekes]

'osteopathic philosophy.'

So you're basing your choice of schools on something this is basically non-existent? There is no difference in the philosophy between allopathic and osteopathic schools.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

So you're basing your choice of schools on something this is basically non-existent? There is no difference in the philosophy between allopathic and osteopathic schools.

i understand that what youre saying is probably true for 95% of practicing DOs.
However, I shadowed one that practiced OMM. I went out of my way to ensure that i found one that used OMM so I could observe it. But even he didnt use it on all patients, especially if their condition didnt call for it.
Anyhow, in the actual curriculum, i feel it can definitely be argued that there is an osteopathic philosophy. If for no other argument other than the fact that there is a class on "OMM practices and principles" (or some variation thereof) in every osteopathic medicine program.

-just wanted you to see how easy it is for a lowly premed to get confused on this issue. I'm sure I'm not alone either; what with all the advertising by the AOA that work to distinguish the DO degree from the MD.

matt.

 

[primadonna22274]

I am applying to a limited number of allopathic schools...namely, the 2 in SC where I am a state resident and my home state OHSU. Maybe a few more that will probably be a waste of money.
DO schools, only the ones I would actually want to go to. All in all about 10 schools total. That's expensive enough.
We shall see.
good luck....

 

[DrMattOglesby]

slight update:
I just got an email from my #1 choice school (amongst both DO & MD) and was told my application is quite strong and that I should go ahead and apply right now [without retaking the MCAT].

key notes:
yes I know that at this stage in the game, its hard to say what school will be my number one choice. But I have visited this campus before and really liked it. And for the curious, the school is ATSU-SOMA (DO) in AZ. It will remain my #1 choice so long as I can secure the Hawaii CHC

 

[cbrons]

damn all you kids going to DO schools seem to be iron man people too... keep it up, all the DOs out here are fat jolly guys (theyre the most liked docs tho by far)

 

[Chocolate Bear]

slight update:
I just got an email from my #1 choice school (amongst both DO & MD) and was told my application is quite strong and that I should go ahead and apply right now [without retaking the MCAT].

key notes:
yes I know that at this stage in the game, its hard to say what school will be my number one choice. But I have visited this campus before and really liked it. And for the curious, the school is ATSU-SOMA (DO) in AZ. It will remain my #1 choice so long as I can secure the Hawaii CHC

Very nice! I actually decided I won't be applying there, even though I gave AACOMAS $30 in their name. They're all about primary care, and underserved on top of that. I have much respect and interest in both of these areas, but I would like to have options, and SOMA doesn't seem to fit my bill. Oh well, I wouldn't want to potentially keep a seat from someone who would better benefit from some amazing opportunities at that place. Good luck Matt!

 

[DrMattOglesby]

Very nice! I actually decided I won't be applying there, even though I gave AACOMAS $30 in their name. They're all about primary care, and underserved on top of that. I have much respect and interest in both of these areas, but I would like to have options, and SOMA doesn't seem to fit my bill. Oh well, I wouldn't want to potentially keep a seat from someone who would better benefit from some amazing opportunities at that place. Good luck Matt!

thank you C-Bizzle. I owe you one.

Ill fed-ex you a pizza...Hawaiian style 👍

 

[Chocolate Bear]

thank you C-Bizzle. I owe you one.

Ill fed-ex you a pizza...Hawaiian style 👍

One of my faves--thanks! Although with your dedication, I don't think I would be keeping you out (if anyone).

 

[Futuredoctr]

I got an idea ...why don't you stop being such a tool 👎 , and just hope for chance to be a PHYSICIAN. Who gives a flying frick whats behind your name? It's the profession you should be concerned with. I don't understand why its all about the M.D. and whether you should give up your hope and go with what you make sound like 2nd rate, 2nd place.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

I got an idea ...why don't you stop being such a tool 👎 , and just hope for chance to be a PHYSICIAN. Who gives a flying frick whats behind your name? It's the profession you should be concerned with. I don't understand why its all about the M.D. and whether you should give up your hope and go with what you make sound like 2nd rate, 2nd place.

i'm sorry you interpreted it that way.
perhaps I should reiterate myself then:
I want to work to fix some of the health-care disparities in the Pacific islands. There is one DO and 1 MD school that I know of which grants students the opportunity to train out there. So, let's say I submit my application for only DO but do not get accepted for that pacific program. I would be in a mess if I didn't submit an MD application because I'd then have zero opportunity to train in the Pacific. And of course there is the chance I am not accepted to either school. I was writing to find out more information about the distinction (if any) between the two types of programs, I feel that is what this site is primarily used for; networking with others in the field to find out more information. Again, I'm sorry you read it all with such misrepresentation of how I feel on the issue. Because this was NEVER about initials, it was about the different curricula and financial aspect of applying to both application services.

 

[meggielou]

I got an idea ...why don't you stop being such a tool 👎 , and just hope for chance to be a PHYSICIAN. Who gives a flying frick whats behind your name? It's the profession you should be concerned with. I don't understand why its all about the M.D. and whether you should give up your hope and go with what you make sound like 2nd rate, 2nd place.

ouch, a little harsh, don't you think? I think that MrMatt just wanted us to convince him to withdraw his MD applications, meaning he'd go DO. I don't think he's concerned with the initials but with which schools he's most suited towards.

I think it would be a good idea for everyone (not just Futuredoctr) to make sure they thoroughly read posts before tearing someone else a new one. That way only the TRUE idiots get called out

 

[RySerr21]

I got an idea ...why don't you stop being such a tool 👎 , and just hope for chance to be a PHYSICIAN. Who gives a flying frick whats behind your name? It's the profession you should be concerned with. I don't understand why its all about the M.D. and whether you should give up your hope and go with what you make sound like 2nd rate, 2nd place.

👎thumbdown👎

dude, YOU are the one that is being a tool. Matt just said his number once choise was SOMA.... i'm not even sure where your comment came from. i re read the thread just in case i missed something but i dont think i did, especially since ive been conversing with matt for quite some time now since we both took the MCAT on 5/27 and have exchanged quite a few posts....

MrMatt, you dont need to explain yourself to "tools" like futuredoc....he clearly has no idea what he is talking about and didnt read the thread, or your posts within the thread. If he had, he wouldnt have made such a jackass post, i'm almost certain.

 

[Dienekes]

i understand that what youre saying is probably true for 95% of practicing DOs.

Actually, the numbers I've seen quoted for what percentage of DOs use OMM on more than an occasional basis are normally 1-3%.

However, I shadowed one that practiced OMM. I went out of my way to ensure that i found one that used OMM so I could observe it. But even he didnt use it on all patients, especially if their condition didnt call for it.

Oh, so we're relaying on anecdotal evidence eh?

-just wanted you to see how easy it is for a lowly premed to get confused on this issue. I'm sure I'm not alone either; what with all the advertising by the AOA that work to distinguish the DO degree from the MD.

You are a premed too. Apparently you've been drinking a little more the AOA Kool-aid than you should have been. That makes you pretty "lowly" yourself, especially in the eyes of people who see through the BS.

Also keep in mind that the AOA is a self serving organization (in regards to its officers) that really doesn't do anything of substance. They are only fighting for "recognition" to minimize the already minimal chances of the combination of the osteopathic and allopathic fields once and for all. If that happens, what little ego stroking they get from being a "leader" of the AOA will disappear because you can bet your ass the AMA would absorb them.

If for no other argument other than the fact that there is a class on "OMM practices and principles"

And your point? One class doesn't make a philosophy more than my portraying a Nazi in a play makes me one. As someone else said, just be happy you MIGHT get the chance to be a physician and stop being concerned about whether it makes you special (or Special Olympics) to have a particular set of letters after your name.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

you know what, I'm done with this thread.
Can a mod please close it now?
the responses I have received have been helpful (save a few) and I thank everyone who took the time to read through the thread to be able to make an educated reply.

on the bright side though: I finally learned how to use my "ignore list"

 

[Dienekes]

you know what, I'm done with this thread.
Can a mod please close it now?
the responses I have received have been helpful (save a few) and I thank everyone who took the time to read through the thread to be able to make an educated reply.

You know, just because you didn't get the warm fuzzy response you wanted isn't a reason to pull a Cartman and take your ball and go home.

 

[engineeredout]

If every thread was closed when the point was reached, what kind of world would we be living in??

 

[ShyRem]

I'm happy to oblige, MrMatt.

the ignore feature is a good one. So is the report post feature.

Closing per OP request. Among other reasons.