MD/PhD = higher % acceptance?

[DrMattOglesby]

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I read on one US MD school's site that by applying to their MD/PhD program, one would have a higher probability of becoming accepted (especially if you are an out of state candidate).
Does this mean that if I apply and the PhD program denies me, then I will also be rejected from the MD program as well?
I know that the University of Miami reviews each application separately and one decision will not affect the other. However I am not sure how the rest of the med schools operate.
Do you know how it works? help me out if you can.
thanks,
matt

 

[deleted158872]

I read somewhere that MD/PhD program is MORE competitive than MD

 

[j-weezy]

I read on one US MD school's site that by applying to their MD/PhD program, one would have a higher probability of becoming accepted (especially if you are an out of state candidate).
Does this mean that if I apply and the PhD program denies me, then I will also be rejected from the MD program as well?
I know that the University of Miami reviews each application separately and one decision will not affect the other. However I am not sure how the rest of the med schools operate.
Do you know how it works? help me out if you can.
thanks,
matt

For some very popular state schools, applying to the MD/PhD program can be slightly less competitive than MD-only (ie. University of Washington). By no means will you automatically be a shoo-in as the stats for the average accepted MD/PhD student are higher than for MD-only. According to an adcom in the MD/PhD forum: Interviewed, One Acceptance: BCPM 3.7, Other 3.8, MCAT 34.

Oftentimes, your application is reviewed by an MD/PhD committee, sometimes you must first be accepted to the medical school before the MD/PhD committee will even look at you. I've never heard of a case of being accepted to the medical school but rejected from the graduate school - usually I think the graduate program will sign off on anyone the medical school is okay with...Additionally, for many programs if you are not accepted to the MD/PhD program, you are still considered for the MD program.

Hope I was of some help!

-j

 

[45408]

I've never heard of a case of being accepted to the medical school but rejected from the graduate school - usually I think the graduate program will sign off on anyone the medical school is okay with

I have. My friend was accepted to the MD program at WUSTL but not the PhD program. He decided to go to a different school where he was accepted to the whole MSTP.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

j-weezy
that was a lot of help to read! thanks for the reply =]
i dont think my stats are going to give me that 35 MCAT so I probably shouldn't worry about it.
...but who knows--I am still waiting on my MCAT results!

 

[jlamacc1]

I read on one US MD school's site that by applying to their MD/PhD program, one would have a higher probability of becoming accepted (especially if you are an out of state candidate).
Does this mean that if I apply and the PhD program denies me, then I will also be rejected from the MD program as well?
I know that the University of Miami reviews each application separately and one decision will not affect the other. However I am not sure how the rest of the med schools operate.
Do you know how it works? help me out if you can.
thanks,
matt

The mechanism of admissions for MD-PhD can vary considerably from program to program. A major distinction is whether or not the program is recognized by the NIH as a Medical Scientist Training Program (MSTP) and funded as such (http://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/InstPredoc/PredocInst-MSTP.htm). At some schools, the medical and graduate factions review apps in an independent manner; at others, the process is much more integrated. Usually, the crux is acceptance by the med school and getting into the graduate school just follows. There are certainly cases, however, when an application is accepted for MD-only but not considered competitive for entry into the MD-PhD program. This illustrates the important point that the ideal application for MD-PhD programs is different than the ideal app for MD programs. While MD programs may stress a well-rounded package, MD-PhD programs focus mostly on grades, MCAT scores, research experience, and letters of recommendation. So, an applicant with VERY good grades, stellar MCAT scores, extensive research experience, but "bare-bones" clinical/volunteer experience and ECs would be better suited to apply to MD-PhD programs; an applicant with solid grades and MCAT scores, extremely broad/well-rounded ECs, and extensive clinical/volunteer experience would be better suited for MD-only. Of course, it's important to remember that the decision to apply MD or MD-PhD should not be determined simply by the strengths of your application, but rather by your interests and personal goals.

 

[jochi1543]

I read somewhere that MD/PhD program is MORE competitive than MD

The number of applicants per spot is lower, I believe, but the applicants' stats are higher. Like, the general accepted stats are 3.6 and 30-31, but for MD/PhD it's 3.7 and 34. Plus the MD/PhD applicants are likely to have much more research experience than the general applicant pool, also making them more competitive in that manner.

 

[drizzt3117]

The main question to the OP is whether he/she is qualified for MD/PhD (research qualifications)?

 

[HumidBeing]

One difference that can come into play is that some state schools take very few or no OOS applicants into their MD program, but their MSTP program is open to OOS applicants. MSTP is highly competitive, but the pool of qualified applicants is much smaller.

 

[dazlindz]

--blah--

 

[SeventhSon]

Allow me to clarify. Some schools, especially state schools (most well-known example being UWashington and their WWAMI policy) heavily bias their MD-only admissions towards instate, and take very few out of state applicants.

For an MD/PHD program to be NIH-funded and hence have the MSTP status, they CANNOT bias their selection criteria to one specific part of the country.

For example, I was interviewed and waitlisted by UWash MSTP while I was rejected pre-secondary by their MD program.

Whether getting rejected by one hurts your chance of getting into the other, that definitely is possible and depends on the school.

 

[Ok2Panic]

I'm getting ready to apply MD/Ph.D., and have been talking to a number of admissions people about the process, trying to gain a little bit more perspective on some of the questions being posed here. From what I've seen from a few MSTP programs, these admissions committees are well-versed in people applying to MD/Ph.D. programs who have little interest in the combined degree, and one of the things they're looking for right off the bat, is evidence that you're dedicated to the combined degree and that it's a commitment you can see through from start to finish. Also, someone else's comment that you rarely get rejected from the graduate division while being admitted to the MD program is entirely false. As I said before, they're putting a 7+ year financial commitment into you, and they want to be sure that you're going to make good on your end of the deal. As far as the application pool, from what I've seen, most schools will put you into the general MD application pool despite being rejected from the MD/Ph.D. program, however, I would by no means assume that this is for all schools.

Anyway, I think I'm rambling a bit. In summation, don't apply to MD/Ph.D. programs for the wrong reason--in all honesty I think you'll just end up wasting your time.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

well the thing is that i would LOVE to do biomedical research! its just that i dont have the research experiences a likely candidate would have; no papers to my name, only sat in on a genetech sponsored bio-reactor to splice DNA of yeast.
i dont think that week long experience is enough to be my claim to fame though!
and aside from that deficiency--I just took the MCAT and was not too pleased with the Biological Science Section! i really dont think my score is going to be something to brag about.
exactly how far does motivation to do a PhD get one?

 

[jochi1543]

i dont think that week long experience is enough to be my claim to fame though!

exactly how far does motivation to do a PhD get one?

It's probably going to be hard to prove it without having actual experience on your app. It's like me showing up with my foreign language major and saying, "wow, I just loooooove bio! I mean, bio's just grrreat! I even took a course once, look!" if you know what I mean.

 

[Ok2Panic]

well the thing is that i would LOVE to do biomedical research! its just that i dont have the research experiences a likely candidate would have; no papers to my name, only sat in on a genetech sponsored bio-reactor to splice DNA of yeast.
i dont think that week long experience is enough to be my claim to fame though!
and aside from that deficiency--I just took the MCAT and was not too pleased with the Biological Science Section! i really dont think my score is going to be something to brag about.
exactly how far does motivation to do a PhD get one?

Tableyou made a very good point--there are a ton of different routes to go if MD + research is your final goal. And if it's what you really want to do, I'm sure you can make one of them work for you. However, motivation is, unfortunately, rarely ever enough... I guess if it was we'd all be in medical school. I dont mean to insinuate that it counts for nothing--but you definitely need something tangible to back that up with. Loving research, and being able to spend years working on a project while your friends and colleagues are already gone/going to residency are different ballgames. I guess my point is, they want to see that you had that initial motivation and love of research and made something of it, insofaras exploring whether or not you could do it in a long-term setting, with all its daily drudgeries, disappointments, highs and lows, BEFORE you apply.

 

[littlealex]

well the thing is that i would LOVE to do biomedical research! its just that i dont have the research experiences a likely candidate would have; no papers to my name, only sat in on a genetech sponsored bio-reactor to splice DNA of yeast.
i dont think that week long experience is enough to be my claim to fame though!
and aside from that deficiency--I just took the MCAT and was not too pleased with the Biological Science Section! i really dont think my score is going to be something to brag about.
exactly how far does motivation to do a PhD get one?

To be fair, most MSTP candidates are strong MD applicants because overall they have high MCAT coupled with a lot of research experience. They are intrinsically good candidates and would have a high chance of acceptance no matter where they go.

You mentioned that you have no research experience, so how do you know you WANT to do research? Work in a lab for at least a year to get a feel of it. If you want to go into Md/PhD, or even just PhD, you NEED a letter of recommendation from your PI. And it needs to be a good one.

I'd suggest you to start doing some research, and do it well. I personally started off being interested in research, and after 2 years in a laboratory, I can't wait to get out.