MD MD PhD vs. MD Chances

[The Chemist]

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Hi All,

I was hoping that others more experienced might have some advice. 🙂

I have finished applying to MD programs the first time with not very great results.
13 schools->3 interviews-> 1 waitlist (big waitlist, few acceptances off it), 2 rejections

One of the things my interviewers kept asking was why I wasn't pursuing an MD/PhD because of my dual interests in research and clinical care. On reflection, they might be right.

Do you think I would be more likely to be accepted to an MD/PhD program than an MD program as a reapplicant if I apply broadly?

Thanks so much!

About me:
Traditional applicant.
My GPA/MCAT are very competitive for either program.
2 years research in one lab culminating in senior thesis.
Planning to stay in same lab during gap year.
Average clinical exposure (volunteer and shadowing).
Planning to continue volunteer position during gap year (~2 yrs. as of today).
Average amount of non-clinical volunteer work, but interesting conversation pieces.
Letters=A++. 2 research PIs (was in another lab for 1 sem.), 1 psych professor, 2 chem professors, 1 clinical volunteer direct supervisor
No criminal/institutional action issues.
Interview skills are fine. At one of the schools I was rejected from, both my interviewers told me post-interview their unsolicited opinion that "you are very likely to be accepted."

 

[gyngyn]

Sometimes applicants with strong research and weaker clinical experience are told these things. It doesn't necessarily mean you are a strong MD PhD candidate. Generally speaking, the standards for admission are higher for positions that are largely funded by the institution than those that generate tuition.

Make a decision based on your own career goals, not the questions generated by randos who interviewed you.

If you only got 3 interviews, I suspect you may have applied top heavy. Without the data and the list I can't be any more helpful.

 

[The Chemist]

Sometimes applicants with strong research and weaker clinical experience are told these things. It doesn't necessarily mean you are a strong MD PhD candidate. Generally speaking, the standards for admission are higher for positions that are largely funded by the institution than those that generate tuition.

Make a decision based on your own career goals, not the questions generated by randos who interviewed you.

If you only got 3 interviews, I suspect you may have applied top heavy. Without the data and the list I can't be any more helpful.

I understand. Thanks for the help. I did apply top heavy, but my stats (not really secret because I've posted them before) are ~3.9/39.

Case Western, Michigan, Yale, UPenn, Cornell, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, North Carolina, Emory, UC San Fran, UC San Diego, UC Irvine, Stanford

 

[gyngyn]

I understand. Thanks for the help. I did apply top heavy, but my stats (not really secret because I've posted them before) are ~3.9/39.

Case Western, Michigan, Yale, UPenn, Cornell, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, North Carolina, Emory, UC San Fran, UC San Diego, UC Irvine, Stanford

You would be admitted right now with a slightly broader list. I'm sorry. I presume you are a CA applicant.

 

[The Chemist]

You would be admitted right now with a slightly broader list. I'm sorry. I presume you are a CA applicant.

Actually not a CA resident, but I like the weather (I get cold easily), liberal environment, great schools, and I have an aunt in the SF area. Thanks again for the advice. I will definitely expand my list for 2015.

 

[gyngyn]

Actually not a CA resident, but I like the weather (I get cold easily), liberal environment, great schools, and I have an aunt in the SF area. Thanks again for the advice. I will definitely expand my list for 2015.

Uh oh. Your situation starts to make more sense, then. Be sure to include schools where you will not be a re-applicant next time to improve your odds. Luckily, there are lots of excellent schools that will fit this description!

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

I understand. Thanks for the help. I did apply top heavy, but my stats (not really secret because I've posted them before) are ~3.9/39.

Case Western, Michigan, Yale, UPenn, Cornell, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, North Carolina, Emory, UC San Fran, UC San Diego, UC Irvine, Stanford

I suppose the only reason why you had a bad app season was because you applied to too many top schools. But with those scores, you should have gotten something. Only 3 interviews? That's 10 rejections before you got started. Then, 2 more rejections post-interviews? For some reason, I feel there's something you're NOT saying. Was it your timing? Or do you have a red flag somewhere? Did you ever follow-up to find out any information?

 

[The Chemist]

I suppose the only reason why you had a bad app season was because you applied to too many top schools. But with those scores, you should have gotten something. Only 3 interviews? That's 10 rejections before you got started. Then, 2 more rejections post-interviews? For some reason, I feel there's something you're NOT saying. Was it your timing? Or do you have a red flag somewhere? Did you ever follow-up to find out any information?

Sorry this is a little long, but I wanted to be complete. Sometimes its hard to analyze yourself, but others understand you right away without being blinded by your existing mental schemas. Thanks for at least asking questions.

1.
only "red flag" was that maybe my essays were not exactly what they wanted --yes, they were reviewed by multiple people (personal statement in particular was read by one MS4 and ~5 smart non-medical people)--but, they might not have emphasized my desire to help people enough. I talked a lot about enjoying research and mentoring others in education. I did nicely phrase that (1) I want to help people and (2) I want to provide high quality clinical care grounded in humanity; to which I gave clear examples through my clinical exposure activities, but maybe the ratio wasn't enough compared with research? Maybe I didn't clearly link my ECs well enough to helping people in medicine? I'm overanalyzing a little though. My 3 most meaningfuls were clinical volunteering, a disease related educational EC, and a non-science/medicine academic EC.

like I said, no criminal or institutional action, no dropping out, no bad semesters, no bad LORs, nothing weird really...

2.
timing: a little late, but not horrible
verified mid Sept.
submitted all my secondaries by mid Oct., many in Sept.

3.
I tried to follow-up early in the season, but was told to check back later...I've been delaying on this while waiting for final decisions, I just received my 2nd reject this week. I will follow up this coming week or next.

2015 plans:
1. better essays reviewed by people intimate with app process
2. broader list of schools
3. submitting AMCAS the stoke of that day in June
4. additional clinical exposure (same long-term commitment)
5. additional research (same long-term commitment)
6. part-time service-oriented employment (always wanted to be a barista for a time)
7. additional shadowing (possibly with same MDs as before to show commitment as they offered future shadowing if I desired)

 

[gyngyn]

Mock interviews?

 

[The Chemist]

Mock interviews?

None this year, but I think they went well anyway and I felt like I connected at least on some level with all my interviewers; as I said, at one of the reject schools, both interviewers said I'm very likely to be accepted.
I'm skilled in public speaking and conversing intelligently, thoughtfully, and calmly when asked questions is fairly easy for me.
Also, I don't know if this helps or hurts, but when I get nervous, my only bad habit is smiling more often.

As to my appearance:
Dress was conservative, but refined. very well cut black suit, white dress shirt, white undershirt, multi-blue/grey diagonal stripe tie with a 4 in a hand knot (I think windsors are too much of a power trip; I'll leave them to the business people), black dress socks, black dress shoes, simple steel tie bar, no cologne, extra deodorant, a few breath mints, clean shave, freshly trimmed medium length hair cut (similar to this: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...14/1250256822314/Bill-from-True-Blood-001.jpg).

It would be a good idea to do at least one mock for 2015 though just to cover all my bases and warm me back up so I can hit the ground running.

thanks gyngyn!

edit: technically the mint breath mints weren't all mint, strawberry tictacs are good too XD

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Honestly this process is really humbling. I have around the same stats as you and around the same ECs (conferences, publications, all that good stuff) and I think if I hadn't submitted in June/applied pretty broadly I'd be reapplying next year. Your chances next year are great through if you go through with the plan you mentioned!

P.S. I got asked the same thing during my interviews. I don't think it's why you were wait listed. A lot of people love research but don't want to make the 3-4 year commitment and then make research a large part of their life. You can always do research with a masters/MPH (which you can get through medical school) and then just do clinical research on the side.

 

[gyngyn]

None this year, but I think they went well anyway and I felt like I connected at least on some level with all my interviewers; as I said, at one of the reject schools, both interviewers said I'm very likely to be accepted.
I'm skilled in public speaking and conversing intelligently, thoughtfully, and calmly when asked questions is fairly easy for me.
Also, I don't know if this helps or hurts, but when I get nervous, my only bad habit is smiling more often.

As to my appearance:
Dress was conservative, but refined. very well cut black suit, white dress shirt, white undershirt, multi-blue/grey diagonal stripe tie with a 4 in a hand knot (I think windsors are too much of a power trip; I'll leave them to the business people), black dress socks, black dress shoes, simple steel tie bar, no cologne, extra deodorant, a few breath mints, clean shave, freshly trimmed medium length hair cut (similar to this: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...14/1250256822314/Bill-from-True-Blood-001.jpg).

It would be a good idea to do at least one mock for 2015 though just to cover all my bases and warm me back up so I can hit the ground running.

thanks gyngyn!

edit: technically the mint breath mints weren't all mint, strawberry tictacs are good too XD

Sounds good. Maybe delete the tie bar.

 

[The Chemist]

Honestly this process is really humbling. I have around the same stats as you and around the same ECs (conferences, publications, all that good stuff) and I think if I hadn't submitted in June/applied pretty broadly I'd be reapplying next year. Your chances next year are great through if you go through with the plan you mentioned!

P.S. I got asked the same thing during my interviews. I don't think it's why you were wait listed. A lot of people love research but don't want to make the 3-4 year commitment and then make research a large part of their life. You can always do research with a masters/MPH (which you can get through medical school) and then just do clinical research on the side.

exactly.

Glad you got in! It is humbling.🤔