MD/PhD's different labs to choose from... which one should I go with?

[shnjb]

Hello people,

I'm facing a rather pleasant dilemma of having to choose between 4 research "labs," whose PIs are either MD/PHDs or an associate professor who is affiliated with the med school (but not an actual instructor).

1. An internal medicine MD PI who works at the cancer center. his main interests are disease prevention, mainly of atherosclerosis... I get to either look at a bunch of tomography slides (fancy x-ray I guess) and analyze data or work in another project related to breast cancer study. He goes over to Indian reservations one day/week and that's his clinical work. He looked pretty nice... was really interested in my tablet PC. I don't think he wants me to put in that much time and work seems like it'd be easy... public health stuff.

2. A pretty young MD/PhD immunologist interested mainly in investigation of the link between cancer and the immune system. He has cell lines derived from mice tumors, one from normal immune system, and others with weakened immune systems (like in AIDS). He wants to investigate the mechanism responsible recognition of "nonself" that gets rid of most carcinogenesis, mainly through mice and tissue culture. Very engaging guy and a lab just getting started so I'll get a lot of personal attention. He even went to my school for med school (UCSD) and said that I'll be able to eventually have a project of my own once I gain enough experience... and I have experience with tissue culture already so this should be easy... lab is at UCSD med school. Really liked how fresh the topic is... I think he wants a lot of hours from me which is definitely fine if the work is fun.

3. A PhD affiliated with the surgery dept. at med school. Biochemist interested mainly in smell, chemical sensory irritation and taste. I really liked how it's not some field that's over saturated (people p53 stuff for example). However he's not an MD and he's not an instructor... he's mainly a researcher. But the stuff seemed pretty easy in terms of equipments used, techniques used, etc... nothing extremely difficult to understand or an equipment that I'll need a long time to get trained on... didn't seem like he expects such a large commitment in terms of time, etc... but also no project of my own or anything like that.

4. An MD/PhD. A psychiatrist and chief resident (he teaches residents at hillcrest UCSD medical center). He has two projects in the grand scheme of things- animal lab and human research. With animals, he wants me to work on rats to investigate anti-psychotic drugs, etc... he's all about neurological stuff. I don't like how I have to work with RATS, which he claims are nicer to work with than mice. I really like how he offered me to follow him around on clinical rounds like residents do with him... The real downside is that it's a long drive to the medical center off campus and most likely he wants more dedication from me than the other labs... I think. (not that it's a bad thing necessarily)

So what do you guys think?
I know it's a seriously long question so any input will be appreciated!

Thank you.

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[Pinkertinkle]

Pick the one with the coolest PI.

 

[ParvatiP]

Just pick the lab whose work you are most interested in.
I would pick #2 because that sounds most interesting. Plus it seems like the lab you'd get to do your own projects, good amount of hours, and attention from the PI.

 

[dr.z]

Just pick the lab whose work you are most interested in.

This is the only way...

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Try posting this in the MD/PhD forum down below.

 

[shnjb]

This is the only way...

Not at all true.

You can have the best project in the world but if the PI is an dingus, it won't be fun or rewarding.

I had a thread earlier about my PI at another lab who was a pompous jerk who would belittle people in his lab, including postdocs, etc.

 

[gbwillner]

Why are you wanting to join these labs? Are you an MD/PhD student???? Please give us some more background... on yourself.

G

 

[RxnMan]

Whatever your motivation or situation, pick an advisor that:

1) is funded
2) you can work with
3a) is committed to getting you out in a reasonable time...
3b) or will get you a publication (depending on situation)

Forget the project, department, notoriety of PI, all that. It is nice if you're doing great research on something that you love, but from my experience, it's not enough to overcome an abusive or exploitive advisor. A supportive PI that is committed to developing you into a good researcher and/or getting you proper recognition for your effort is worth their weight in gold.

 

[shnjb]

I'm a premed student.
I have two years here at UCSD and would like to get something accomplished while helping my chances of getting into MSTP.

But yeah I agree that a nice PI >>>>> an dingus PI who won a Nobel prize... well, maybe if he won a Nobel prize, it'd be worth it but definitely in other cases, support and encouragement from PI is more helpful than the interest in the project, how famous the PI is, etc.

 

[RxnMan]

But yeah I agree that a nice PI >>>>> an dingus PI...

Then apply the rules I suggested above. After that, if you have several choices, you're lucky. Then apply things like:

1) do you like the work/think it's interesting
2) does the PI have projects that are already in progress (more on this below)
3) if the research is medically related.

Just so you know, I think it's a good idea as a premed to go for MDs, but it's not 100% necessary. I say this because if all of the folks you mentioned above turn out to be crummy, then there's no real penalty to widening your search to non-medical departments.

Also, unless you have the numbers (GPA/MCAT) to back up the pubs or other research experiences on your app, you won't be a competitive med school applicant. That is, if it comes down to working on a publication or getting an A in a class, drop the research and go for the A.

And one trick of the resume-pumping biz is to go for "low-hanging fruit." (Think of an apple tree - you don't go for the fruit on the top of the tree first, right?) If one of these docs has a ton of projects in all stages of progress - or better still - a few that are stalled because they don't have the time to finish them - then go for that PI. You have something this PI doesn't - You can afford to spend lots of time writing an article while they have to be in an ICU saving lives. Thus, for relatively little effort (as apposed to starting a project from scratch,) you can get pubs relatively quickly and look like a hero because you saved those stalled projects.

 

[Faebinder]

Bottom line... premed... trying to go to med school..

conclusion....

go with the MD with the most influence.... You arent trying to get a phd here... you are trying to get projects/publications on your name that involves MDs.. possibly get a letter of recommendation from the MD.

GO with whoever has the most influence.... your ability to tolerate dinguses will take you far in medicine and the dinguses might respect you for it and help you go into medicine...

 

[RxnMan]

Bottom line... premed... trying to go to med school..

conclusion....

go with the MD with the most influence.... You arent trying to get a phd here... you are trying to get projects/publications on your name that involves MDs.. possibly get a letter of recommendation from the MD.

GO with whoever has the most influence.... your ability to tolerate dinguses will take you far in medicine and the dinguses might respect you for it and help you go into medicine...

Ok, but it doesn't mean they have to start before becoming a med student. And in terms of being more competitive, the method I outlined gets them the most pubs (with the least hassle), which will do better than influence (not everyone will know Dr. Bigshot, but all ADCOMs respect pubs).

 

[cbd]

Hey- I am currently finishing my Ph.D.... So I think I can give some decent advice.

1. Be interested in the project, but realize that you will probably be sick of it sooner or later- so don't decide on that alone.

2. Choose a lab with a solid record of RECENT publications- with first authors from the lab.

3. Try to go to a lab that has a good record of training graduate students and getting them out in a reasonable ammount of time.

4. Get advice from people who know these PIs- faculty or senior students.

5. Go to a lab where you'll learn a lot- you want to be profecient in a variety of techniques and areas.

6. Be SURE that you can get along with the PI- his style of mentoring and his ability to actually spend time with you. Be sure that you respect him/her.

7. Spend time in the labs and get to know the other people- do you like the dynamic? At least go to a lab meeting and get a feel for everything.... We do rotations in the labs before selecting- VERY IMPORTANT!!

8. *** NIH RO1 or the equivalent funding that will last through your time in the lab *** I read the grants before deciding- that way you have a much better idea of where the project is heading

Good luck!
PM me if you want more advice
I liked my PI and my project, but now I'm in my 6th year working on a pointless second project TRYING to graduate while applying to medical school.... We are out of $$ now (had 2 grants when I started) and my boss "works at home" most days. Now I have little guidance or mentoring- even the more senior lab members are clueless when it comes to my current project. UGGG.

Be careful with your decision! Choose wisely and don't be afraid to ask many questions and change your mind if things seem to be going poorly!

 

[RxnMan]

This should be merged with the thread of the same name in the research forum...

 

[shnjb]

I'm really torn between the immunologist and the chief resident.

On one hand, immunologist's lab seems a little dark and depressing... and he's probably not very influential given his age and all... in addition, he doesn't have a single publication related to his topic of interest yet.
Well, I'm sure he's been published but perhaps he meant just not in that specific topic.

And then the chief resident... it's so far that I'm pretty sure it'll have an adverse effect on my grades if I'm there 15 hrs a week and definitely so if I'm there for more hours than that.
But he does have a lot of papers under his belt, does most clinical work out of all these PIs, and also trains residents.... so perhaps this will be a very valuable experience especially with the added clinical experience as a bonus.

Sigh... so hard to make a decision.

 

[QofQuimica]

This should be merged with the thread of the same name in the research forum...

Done.

OP, I agree that you should pick whoever would be the best mentor, meaning s/he is supportive of your career development, will let you publish, and has a consistent record of graduating students on time and with their PhDs. Assuming that whoever you pick is a reputable scientist, don't worry too much about the specific project you'll be doing. Chances are excellent that whatever work you do as a graduate student will be different than what you do as a post doc or a physician scientist anyway.