MD Salaries

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I believe it. Sounds on par with the answers I got from shadowing physicians. I know someone's gonna come in here and say these numbers are inaccurate/off like in the last thread but the last thread about salaries were actually pretty close to this one. Looks like surgery is still making the bigger bucks.
 
I think these numbers are inaccurate/off.

:laugh: sorry, I had to. In actuality they seem pretty close to what I thought they were.
 
NKChemEng said:
I think these numbers are inaccurate/off.

:laugh: sorry, I had to. In actuality they seem pretty close to what I thought they were.
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Hahaha, these numbers make complete sense.

Considering the MGMA salary report, these numbers are very similar.
Especially since this survey gives us the starting salaries and then the 6 year salaries.
 
I'm disappointed Emergency Medicine is not in the list...
 
It doesn't look like the survey differentiates between MD and DO salaries. Therefore, I propose the thread title be changed to "Physician salaries" to avoid a thread war 😀
 
Hmm, comparing starting median salaries to 6 year averages... :eyebrow:
 
Okay, let's not get technical with salaries and taxes, housing, what your future son will eat for dinner. You still have a lot left over in the end and you can use some of it for that new super soaker.
 
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Frazier said:
False.
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More or less false. It depends on what you consider a lot of money. To me it is a significant sum, as come from a lower middle class background. Those salaries after taxes, while not "1%er" levels are still more than the average American ever sees, albeit they are earned only after years and years of training and lost income potential.
 
Wolfman89 said:
More or less false. It depends on what you consider a lot of money. To me it is a significant sum, as come from a lower middle class background. Those salaries after taxes, while not "1%er" levels are still more than the average American ever sees, albeit they are earned only after years and years of training and lost income potential.
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Agree with this.
 
nadaba said:
Until you subtract 45% for federal and state taxes.
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False. Typical married household with two kids and a mortgage, AGI of $360k, will see a federal income tax bill of only ~$75k, thanks to the beauty of marginal tax rates. Add $15k for payroll taxes and ~$25k for state and local taxes, and you're at $115k in total taxes.

That's a 32% average tax rate, nowhere near 45%, assuming you don't do anything fancy to rearrange your income/assets for tax purposes. Sigh, people are always overstating their actual tax burdens..
 
eHombre said:
False. Typical married household with two kids and a mortgage, AGI of $360k, will see a federal income tax bill of only ~$75k, thanks to the beauty of marginal tax rates. Add $15k for payroll taxes and ~$25k for state and local taxes, and you're at $115k in total taxes.

That's a 32% average tax rate, nowhere near 45%, assuming you don't do anything fancy to rearrange your income/assets for tax purposes. Sigh, people are always overstating their actual tax burdens..
Click to expand...

$75k is a pretty big chunk of money to have stolen from you. 🙁

I plan to reside in a state without its own state taxes.
 
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eHombre said:
False. Typical married household with two kids and a mortgage, AGI of $360k, will see a federal income tax bill of only ~$75k, thanks to the beauty of marginal tax rates. Add $15k for payroll taxes and ~$25k for state and local taxes, and you're at $115k in total taxes.

That's a 32% average tax rate, nowhere near 45%, assuming you don't do anything fancy to rearrange your income/assets for tax purposes. Sigh, people are always overstating their actual tax burdens..
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, what taxes, and at what rates, are you using to calculate state and local taxes?
 
Frazier said:
Well, my household brought in around 30k during my childhood... just to balance out your insinuation of warped perspectives.

But, okay, just so I can further grasp how this scale works...

Now knowing that "insane" is the appropriate label for those making 200k-400k/year. What adjective would you attribute to each of the following?

A) Politician pulling in 600k/year
B) Athlete making 1 mil/year
C) CEO making 10 mil/year
D) Lotto winner of 250 mil
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"Insane" was likely the wrong word to use; I would still consider a ridiculous amount, though (not that it isn't deserved, of course).

A) REALLY ridiculous
B) Crazy.
C) Insane.
D) Lucky.
 
eHombre said:
False. Typical married household with two kids and a mortgage, AGI of $360k, will see a federal income tax bill of only ~$75k, thanks to the beauty of marginal tax rates. Add $15k for payroll taxes and ~$25k for state and local taxes, and you're at $115k in total taxes.

That's a 32% average tax rate, nowhere near 45%, assuming you don't do anything fancy to rearrange your income/assets for tax purposes. Sigh, people are always overstating their actual tax burdens..
Click to expand...
In principle I think a 32% income tax rate is still way too high. I'd be comfortable giving about 15-20% of my total income to the government (I realize this is idealistic but I did say in principle.)
 
Those are private practice numbers, I believe. I know the MGMA is for sure. Private practice brings in, depending on specialty and location, 1.5-3.0 times the salary of physicians in academic medicine (where ~40% of us will end up).
 
gettheleadout said:
In principle I think a 32% income tax rate is still way too high. I'd be comfortable giving about 15-20% of my total income to the government (I realize this is idealistic but I did say in principle.)
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+1

There comes a point where any single individual, even if he/she is a multimillionare, has contributed enough.
 
kduck said:
Just out of curiosity, what taxes, and at what rates, are you using to calculate state and local taxes?
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Massachusetts is 5.3% on all taxable income. After deductions on the $360k, that's $17k. Property taxes in Arlington, MA, an affluent Boston suburb, on a $500k house was estimated at $8k on Zillow. Thus, $25k state/local taxes.

It may be more or less based on your locale (e.g., NYC), but they don't call it Taxachusetts for nothing, and I assume MA is toward the high end of the scale.


Cinclus said:
$75k is a pretty big chunk of money to have stolen from you. 🙁

I plan to reside in a state without its own state taxes.
Click to expand...

Too bad that $75k is federal, and you'll be paying it regardless. State income taxes, in most states, are not terribly onerous (~5% of income) Besides, don't you value well funded public services?
 
gettheleadout said:
In principle I think a 32% income tax rate is still way too high. I'd be comfortable giving about 15-20% of my total income to the government (I realize this is idealistic but I did say in principle.)
Click to expand...

That's a 20% federal income tax rate, which is the number most people get exercised about. I'm only being fair by adding in payroll, state and local taxes.
 
eHombre said:
That's a 20% federal income tax rate, which is the number most people get exercised about. I'm only being fair by adding in payroll, state and local taxes.
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And I'm talking about the total (state, federal, whatever combined) income tax taken out of my income being no greater than 20% of my income.
 
Morzh said:
Those are private practice numbers, I believe. I know the MGMA is for sure. Private practice brings in, depending on specialty and location, 1.5-3.0 times the salary of physicians in academic medicine (where ~40% of us will end up).
Click to expand...

A couple things to consider about academic medicine:
At some places 3 1/2 days a week is full time, which explains some of the salaries.
Not all academic programs pay poorly.
Some academic departments pay very well, but you're working more.
Look around when the time comes before you dismiss academia.
 
IlDestriero said:
A couple things to consider about academic medicine:
At some places 3 1/2 days a week is full time, which explains some of the salaries.
Not all academic programs pay poorly.
Some academic departments pay very well, but you're working more.
Look around when the time comes before you dismiss academia.
Click to expand...

IlDestriero, if you don't mind me asking (as someone with a strong interest in academics), is one allowed to supplement their days off in that 3 1/2 day set up with private practice work (if they want to, of course)? As in, someone works in their faculty position for those 3 1/2 days and then runs a small practice on the other 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 days.
 
IlDestriero said:
A couple things to consider about academic medicine:
At some places 3 1/2 days a week is full time, which explains some of the salaries.
Not all academic programs pay poorly.
Some academic departments pay very well, but you're working more.
Look around when the time comes before you dismiss academia.
Click to expand...

Oh I know I wasn't dismissing academic medicine at all I think it's a really great area. The more I learn about it the more I think I may prefer it over private practice. I was just pointing out that those numbers don't apply to all physicians everywhere.
 
Starlightembers said:
IlDestriero, if you don't mind me asking (as someone with a strong interest in academics), is one allowed to supplement their days off in that 3 1/2 day set up with private practice work (if they want to, of course)? As in, someone works in their faculty position for those 3 1/2 days and then runs a small practice on the other 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 days.
Click to expand...

I may be wrong but most people in academia I've talked to say that it's more like 3 1/2 days of clinical and then the rest of the week is left for teaching/research/administrative responsibilities, which is generally pretty light and laid-back.
 
Morzh said:
I may be wrong but most people in academia I've talked to say that it's more like 3 1/2 days of clinical and then the rest of the week is left for teaching/research/administrative responsibilities, which is generally pretty light and laid-back.
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This is what I have heard, as well, and it is what I assumed he meant at first; however, he seems to be implying you actually have those days off. I could be reading it wrong, however.
 
CodeBlu said:
Hahaha, these numbers make complete sense.

Considering the MGMA salary report, these numbers are very similar.
Especially since this survey gives us the starting salaries and then the 6 year salaries.
Click to expand...

Hate to break it to you, but as "averages", these numbers are bogus. Medscape, a more reputable source than this commercial entity, published a salary study this past year and indicated that the fields with the highest averages (for folks in practice, not "starting salaries") are ortho and dagnostic radiology, each with an average salary of $350k, and the field with the lowest average salary is peds, with an average salary of about $148k. Everything else was somewhere in between. Sources that tell you otherwise are simply not reflecting averages, and theres a lot of puffery going on. Commercial entities that want you to use their services are notorious for inflation, so basically are recruiting firms play bait and switch with the numbers. In particular the spine data published in your list reflects what people earned before recent adjustments to reimbursements which now disallow level by level billing (surgery on 10 vertebrae used to be ten separate billing items, now it's just one).
 
Starlightembers said:
IlDestriero, if you don't mind me asking (as someone with a strong interest in academics), is one allowed to supplement their days off in that 3 1/2 day set up with private practice work (if they want to, of course)? As in, someone works in their faculty position for those 3 1/2 days and then runs a small practice on the other 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 days.
Click to expand...

Almost certainly not. However every department is different, and some pay more for extra days worked, or working late, call, bonus, etc. You may end up making significantly more than the base "salary".
 
Starlightembers said:
This is what I have heard, as well, and it is what I assumed he meant at first; however, he seems to be implying you actually have those days off. I could be reading it wrong, however.
Click to expand...

Most admin and research activities are done on your own time. I can come to work on my admin day and work, or not come in at all that day at all and do the work at home on some evening for a couple hours. So, yes, you are simply off the schedule. I get a day a month off for an admin role that I do while working. Though the time I get "off" really is "alternate compensation" for my admin work. Some other admin work involves extra salary. Academia is a complex monster.
 
IlDestriero said:
Most admin and research activities are done on your own time. I can come to work on my admin day and work, or not come in at all that day at all and do the work at home on some evening for a couple hours. So, yes, you are simply off the schedule. I get a day a month off for an admin role that I do while working. Though the time I get "off" really is "alternate compensation" for my admin work. Some other admin work involves extra salary. Academia is a complex monster.
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Thank you for the insights, IlDestriero; the time all of you practicing physicians spend on this site is much appreciated.

Just to clarify what I have mind: I am interested in academics and psychiatry. Though I academics sounds like the best fit for me, I think I would also enjoy seeing a few long-term, private patients separate from the academic world (so, on my own time). Obviously, I will likely change my mind countless times between point A and Z; however, would this seem plausible? Based on what you are saying, it seems that it would be.
 
nadaba said:
Until you subtract 45% for federal and state taxes.
Click to expand...

Choose your state wisely. Some have a very good cost of living and low to no state taxes.

I'm really surprised how high peds starting salary is compared to family meds. I wonder if that because more peds docs are inpatient?
 
Starlightembers said:
I am interested in academics and psychiatry.
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So am I! Psychiatry is a great field which will continue to be a very open area for both research and academics. It is very likely that psychiatric medicine will continue becoming more integrated with traditional medicine as we continue expanding our understanding of the biological basis of mind.

Additionally, I think that physicians are becoming more aware of the benefit that psychiatry can play in a group care settings. Pain management and Hospice/Palliative are two areas where psychiatry's usefulness is becoming more widely known. Not only are psychiatrists well trained in medication management (and the related dependency issues), but they are the ideal physician to help with the depression and grief that is associated with end of life situations.

Psychiatry is also slowly returning to some of its roots in psychotherapy as modern cognitive approaches seems to enhance many treatment modalities.
 
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Law2Doc said:
Hate to break it to you, but as "averages", these numbers are bogus. Medscape, a more reputable source than this commercial entity, published a salary study this past year and indicated that the fields with the highest averages (for folks in practice, not "starting salaries") are ortho and dagnostic radiology, each with an average salary of $350k, and the field with the lowest average salary is peds, with an average salary of about $148k. Everything else was somewhere in between. Sources that tell you otherwise are simply not reflecting averages, and theres a lot of puffery going on. Commercial entities that want you to use their services are notorious for inflation, so basically are recruiting firms play bait and switch with the numbers. In particular the spine data published in your list reflects what people earned before recent adjustments to reimbursements which now disallow level by level billing (surgery on 10 vertebrae used to be ten separate billing items, now it's just one).
Click to expand...

With all due respect, both my parents are in private practice in a suburban area and these salaries are pretty accurate + or - 50k. So given these are average I can tell you that 2 of those subspecialties listed are accurate.
 
Knocked Up said:
With all due respect, both my parents are in private practice in a suburban area and these salaries are pretty accurate + or - 50k. So given these are average I can tell you that 2 of those subspecialties listed are accurate.
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Private practices can (legally) hide money from Uncle Sam.
 
CodeBlu said:
Which is why my friends in business are drafting plans for their money and my money right now...

It's not illegal.
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Yeah, that's what I said.


Unless my sarcasm radar is way off.....
 
Stumpyman said:
Yeah, that's what I said.


Unless my sarcasm radar is way off.....
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Hahahahahha

Seriously though. Tax evasion, can be done legally. There are ways to tie up your money... pay dividends to your kids, but they don't actually get the money bla bla bla.

All the big wigs do it. My family doctor has like 3 or 4 incorporated business names to divide the cash up.
 
Stumpyman said:
Private practices can (legally) hide money from Uncle Sam.
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My parents would NEVER do something like that :laugh:

I'm just saying, but wouldn't it be nice to lease nice German auto brands and declare the leases as a business expense (over 50% of your driving go from hospital to clinic, etcL). That would be nice, wouldn't it? I'm just saying, I don't know anyone that does that though.
 
Am I missing something here? I wrote "legally" in my post :laugh:

@codeblu, no seriously, I DID say legally lol

@knocked, I'm not bashing on your parents as I said it's a legal thing to do. They're not commiting a crime or anything.
 
Just put your cash earnings (you are all going into private practice, and not accept insurance anyways right?) in a tidy shoebox (might need a big box) under your bed.

Then pm me your address.
 
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