MD Salaries

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blizzah said:
Just put your cash earnings (you are all going into private practice, and not accept insurance anyways right?) in a tidy shoebox (might need a big box) under your bed.

Then pm me your address.
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Also be sure to mention when you go on vacation/aren't home right? And pass-codes to deactivate any burglar alarms? :laugh:
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Knocked Up said:
With all due respect, both my parents are in private practice in a suburban area and these salaries are pretty accurate + or - 50k. So given these are average I can tell you that 2 of those subspecialties listed are accurate.
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With all due respect, how can you possibly claim confidence in a reported average by using a correlation to a single data point?
 
gettheleadout said:
With all due respect, how can you possibly claim confidence in a reported average by using a correlation to a single data point?
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With all due respect, he has two parents, so there were TWO data points. :cool:
 
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Might as well invest in something stable like GOLD.. well all be wiping our bums with this worthless paper if all we do when we need more money is we keep printing, and printing, and printing..
 
CodeBlu said:
Hahahahahha

Seriously though. Tax evasion, can be done legally. There are ways to tie up your money... pay dividends to your kids, but they don't actually get the money bla bla bla.

All the big wigs do it. My family doctor has like 3 or 4 incorporated business names to divide the cash up.
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Tax avoidance in legal. Tax evasion is, by definition, illegal
 
so how many residency spots for each specialty are there each year in the United States?
 
I'm confused as to why one of the specialties in Pediatrics makes less than general Pediatrics...
 
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Camy99 said:
I'm confused as to why one of the specialties in Pediatrics makes less than general Pediatrics...
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The expression of your Squirtle mascot actually works with your confusion sortof.
 
Law2Doc said:
Hate to break it to you, but as "averages", these numbers are bogus. Medscape, a more reputable source than this commercial entity, published a salary study this past year and indicated that the fields with the highest averages (for folks in practice, not "starting salaries") are ortho and dagnostic radiology, each with an average salary of $350k, and the field with the lowest average salary is peds, with an average salary of about $148k. Everything else was somewhere in between. Sources that tell you otherwise are simply not reflecting averages, and theres a lot of puffery going on. Commercial entities that want you to use their services are notorious for inflation, so basically are recruiting firms play bait and switch with the numbers. In particular the spine data published in your list reflects what people earned before recent adjustments to reimbursements which now disallow level by level billing (surgery on 10 vertebrae used to be ten separate billing items, now it's just one).
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Here's medscape:
fig22.jpg
fig2.jpg


Data is off 15k physicians.

Compared to OP's link which explicitly states "This Physician Salary Survey is based on our own recent nationwide, confidential survey of over 80,000 practicing physicians as well as over 40,000 newly graduated physicians in each specialty listed above. "

If anything, OP's link has more generous numbers since it even includes newly graduated physicians, yet the numbers are still significantly higher.
 
jcruiser said:
If anything, OP's link has more generous numbers since it even includes newly graduated physicians, yet the numbers are still significantly higher.
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Yeah, but if you believe every survey, you'd think >50% of SDN has a 39+ MCAT too.
 
blizzah said:
Yeah, but if you believe every survey, you'd think >50% of SDN has a 39+ MCAT too.
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So I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point here. Both surveys are equally credible. And, yes, it's a survey, most people will tell the truth, some will lie. Good thing we do something called an average.
 
mokhoras said:
False. I used a tax calculator online (http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm) and it says for 360k, the federal income tax is 96,255 dollars, which is about 27%. Add all the other taxes, assuming they are correct and you have roughly $140,000 gone. Add in malpractice and it'll be even more gone.
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Well. You may be double counting about malpractice. When they report something as income malpractice insurance will be considered as a business expense.
Many corporations routinely deduct 35% tax on income but actual tax paid could be much lower. Theoretical calculation is likely to high. What one has to do is get from IRS data, with confidentiality assured, what is actual tax paid.

Alexis de Toquille said that Americans don't pass a law without a provision for getting around it.

John Muir seems to have said: I am richer than John D. Rockfeller. I have all the money I want while Rockfeller doesn't".

I am paraphrasing, of course.:laugh:
 
mokhoras said:
False. I used a tax calculator online (http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm) and it says for 360k, the federal income tax is 96,255 dollars, which is about 27%. Add all the other taxes, assuming they are correct and you have roughly $140,000 gone. Add in malpractice and it'll be even more gone.
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You do understand the difference between taxable income and adjusted gross income, don't you? (Your calculator used taxable income.)

AGI is your gross income minus any retirement contributions or business expenses (a significant area of tax avoidance), while taxable income is your AGI minus your itemized deductions. These deductible items are things like mortgage interest (I assumed $40k), state/local taxes, and your dependents' deduction. This all takes you down to $280k taxable income and from there it's a simple calculation to $75k in taxes. And we haven't yet deducted anything for malpractice, which isn't taxes but does reduce your take-home pay.

So yes, most real jointly filing households with gross incomes under, say, $500k are not paying anywhere near 40% in total taxes as a percent of their gross income.

Go play with this tax calculator and have fun!
http://calculator.taxpolicycenter.org/
 
gettheleadout said:
Yeah, and no one is going to post 40+ different numbers here for you when you could go find a table of them yourself using the magic search engines at your disposal, as sector9 pointed out.
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maybe you should read my post before you write nonsense and then post crap. :idea:
 
MajinVegeta said:
maybe you should read my post before you write nonsense and then post crap. :idea:
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Burn? Maybe you should Google your question if you want specifics to that extent before dumping the burden off on to others. While were on the subject why don't you extend your insult to sector9 as well? He said the same thing I did.
 
CodeBlu said:
Hahahahahha

Seriously though. Tax evasion, can be done legally. There are ways to tie up your money... pay dividends to your kids, but they don't actually get the money bla bla bla.

All the big wigs do it. My family doctor has like 3 or 4 incorporated business names to divide the cash up.
Click to expand...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558#.TrrakkOIk8k If General Electric can get the IRS TO PAY IT 3.2BILLION while making 14.2 Billion dollars in profits, you can find a way to get by without paying taxes too with the right tax deductions on your business.
 
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I find it utterly amusing when premeds discuss doctors' salaries and tax breaks, even though they will not see a dime for at least a decade.
 
gettheleadout said:
Burn? Maybe you should Google your question if you want specifics to that extent before dumping the burden off on to others. While were on the subject why don't you extend your insult to sector9 as well? He said the same thing I did.
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im talking about your "depends on specialty" post :thumbdown:
 
sector9 said:
Hey hey! No need to be insulting sector9:D
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Haha you know what I meant...
Nilf said:
I find it utterly amusing when premeds discuss doctors' salaries and tax breaks, even though they will not see a dime for at least a decade.
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The way you talk, one would think you don't either. :laugh:
MajinVegeta said:
im talking about your "depends on specialty" post :thumbdown:
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It was an appropriate response to your post, as I didn't interpret your question to be specifically asking for a number for each, because oh I don't know, that would be a ridiculous question to ask other posters to answer for you. You're missing the point here!
 
Knocked Up said:
Wait. You just got accepted last month and you are already:

A) Hooking up with random hot chicks from out of state

B) Counting your cash

Man you waste no time at all :laugh:
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RE bolded above: I gotta hear this story. Codeblu?
 
DrMeowMeow said:
It's listed as critical care, and urgent care too if that counts.
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Critical care is not at all ER, and really either is urgent care at most hospitals so they're often not paid the same.
 
Nilf said:
I find it utterly amusing when premeds discuss doctors' salaries and tax breaks, even though they will not see a dime for at least a decade.
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I find it amusing when new physicians start denying these survey results when they haven't been working for more than two years.
 
jcruiser said:
Here's medscape:
fig22.jpg
fig2.jpg


Data is off 15k physicians.

Compared to OP's link which explicitly states "This Physician Salary Survey is based on our own recent nationwide, confidential survey of over 80,000 practicing physicians as well as over 40,000 newly graduated physicians in each specialty listed above. "

If anything, OP's link has more generous numbers since it even includes newly graduated physicians, yet the numbers are still significantly higher.
Click to expand...

Except that medscape isn't a job search service with an incentive to hook wishful clients like the OPs link is. And your quote didn't say how many responses they got, just how many surveyed, which is but a fraction of the number medscape surveyed.
You see dozens of these recruiter sites plugging high "average" salaries on SDN, but it's really an attempt to get people to call them up in search of these numbers. The numbers simply are fake, as are the number of people surveyed. They often just compile the more self serving salary data from other studies and call it an "average". As I mentioned before, there are at least a few "average" salaries on that list that perhaps at one time were true, but with changes in reimbursement coding now isn't. But hey, believe what you like.
 
jcruiser said:
So I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point here. Both surveys are equally credible. And, yes, it's a survey, most people will tell the truth, some will lie. Good thing we do something called an average.
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There are many studies out there in non medical fields which suggest that surveys of salary data tend to skew higher than actual because the people embarrassed of what they earn are less likely to respond than the ones proud of what they earn.

Either way it's pretty silly for premeds close to a decade away from a job to argue about what they will be earning, based on an average that is going to be heavily weighted by folks who became established in more lucrative times. Rules change, doors open and close. The further down this path you get, you get a much better sense of what's going on. I promise you you won't be looking at recruiting website "data" the same way a few years from now.
 
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i wish path was on that list too. Im the only person in my class who actually enjoys histopath, but these forums make me fear the job market in cities I want to be in (I want to be in SoCal optimally)
 
Law2Doc said:
There are many studies out there in non medical fields which suggest that surveys of salary data tend to skew higher than actual because the people embarrassed of what they earn are less likely to respond than the ones proud of what they earn.

Either way it's pretty silly for premeds close to a decade away from a job to argue about what they will be earning, based on an average that is going to be heavily weighted by folks who became established in more lucrative times. Rules change, doors open and close. The further down this path you get, you get a much better sense of what's going on. I promise you you won't be looking at recruiting website "data" the same way a few years from now.
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Fair enough. :thumbup:
 
I don't think MD's should worry too much about $$. Even if their salaries drop by 50% they will be making 50% more than PhD's in Phyiscs, Chemistry, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Computer Scientists, Mathematics who probably have contributed more to the field of Medicine than MDs themselves. Mamtemetics may look odd there; But consider fast fourier transform: It is so fundamental to imaging and communication that it's contributed tremedously to MRI, CATScans, Tomography is huge. When Fermi Lab was developing proton thearapy it was all done by physicists while physicians who reffered their patients charged 100s of $ to Fermi Lab. Don't worry too much about money; though you should worry about malpractice.:p:rolleyes:
 
IMSingular said:
I don't think MD's should worry too much about $$. Even if their salaries drop by 50% they will be making 50% more than PhD's in Phyiscs, Chemistry, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Computer Scientists, Mathematics who probably have contributed more to the field of Medicine than MDs themselves. Mamtemetics may look odd there; But consider fast fourier transform: It is so fundamental to imaging and communication that it's contributed tremedously to MRI, CATScans, Tomography is huge. When Fermi Lab was developing proton thearapy it was all done by physicists while physicians who reffered their patients charged 100s of $ to Fermi Lab. Don't worry too much about money; though you should worry about malpractice.:p:rolleyes:
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:smack:
 
IMSingular said:
I don't think MD's should worry too much about $$. Even if their salaries drop by 50% they will be making 50% more than PhD's in Phyiscs, Chemistry, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Computer Scientists, Mathematics who probably have contributed more to the field of Medicine than MDs themselves. Mamtemetics may look odd there; But consider fast fourier transform: It is so fundamental to imaging and communication that it's contributed tremedously to MRI, CATScans, Tomography is huge. When Fermi Lab was developing proton thearapy it was all done by physicists while physicians who reffered their patients charged 100s of $ to Fermi Lab. Don't worry too much about money; though you should worry about malpractice.:p:rolleyes:
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Lol

Mamtemetics interests me. Can I pursue MD/PhD in this?
 
CodeBlu said:
Lol

Mamtemetics interests me. Can I pursue MD/PhD in this?
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Well. You could do MD and PHD in Math, and understand how Fractal theory gives best estimate of how much air is sucked into lungs, and fractal theory is useful in understanding transportation of blood and oxygen to the muscles, how information theory and structure of neural system may allow you how memory is stored in the brain, how the fuzzy logic is related to how brain processes languages etc.;)
 
IMSingular said:
Well. You could do MD and PHD in Math, and understand how Fractal theory gives best estimate of how much air is sucked into lungs, and fractal theory is useful in understanding transportation of blood and oxygen to the muscles, how information theory and structure of neural system may allow you how memory is stored in the brain, how the fuzzy logic is related to how brain processes languages etc.;)
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Woosh
 
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