MD vs. DO: End The Rediculus and Unfounded Battle

[medic170]

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There seems to be a large number of "holier than thou" DO people posting lately see such posters as..well I will not name names, but look at some recent threads like http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2416694#post2416694). I just want to tell you people something. I started out pre-DO and I know everything a pre-med possibly can about osteopathic medicine. It is a great profession that deserves more respect than it sometimes gets. But you people that come on here, dog allopathic medicine, and preach about how DO's are better are doing a disservice. Here are a few pointers that I do not think anyone will disagree with:

1. DO's are NOT "better" ot "more educated" than MD's, and MD's are not better or more educated than DO's. Each profession takes a slightly different approach to teaching people how to be great physicians, and one is not better than the other.

2. You don't like it when MD's claim osteopathy is an inferior form of medicine, right? Guess what, MD's don't like to be ragged on either. Your profession has fought against the political machine for over 100 years to gain the recognition and respect it deserves. Claiming to be inherently better than MD's makes you no better than those old AMA docs who tried to keep you from practicing 80 years ago. It does not further your cause, and it DOES set it back.

3. In this day and age, there is very little difference between the education of DO' and MD's, except for OMM. The ideological differences that linger are fading fast.

4. MD's can practice holistic patient centered medicine just as easily as DO's can, and many do. The way medicine is practiced by any indicidual, DO or MD, has a lot more to do with the person than it does with where s/he wenty to school or which philosophy (MD or DO) he was taught.

5. Guess what, most DO's, less those who practice OMM a lot (very few) prescribe just as many medications just as often as MD's do.

6. Yes, allopathic medicine is more recognized than osteopathic by the public, and the reason nowadays is sheer numbers, and our leadership and political machine has it much more together and is much more powerful. DO's need to get better leadership, better residency slots (AOA or keep lobbying for a combined match) and continue to perform exemplary work and eventually your professional will be just as accepted as allopathy is. Be proactive rather reactive!! It takes time for a minority in any field to get the full recognition it diserves, but the only way to do it is by proving your worth and place, which DO's have done a great job of (except for the leadership)

I love osteopathic medicine. I only chose an MD school instead because of the curriculum and the greater number of rotation slots at any given hospital. Please, stop making osteopathy look second rate by downing MD's, you don't like it when it happens to you.

here is agreat article posted by tkim in another thread: http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/paradox_of_osteopathy.htm

 

[PJ1120]

There seems to be a large number of "holier than thou" DO people posting lately see such posters as..well I will not name names, but look at some recent threads like http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2416694#post2416694). I just want to tell you people something. I started out pre-DO and I know everything a pre-med possibly can about osteopathic medicine. It is a great profession that deserves more respect than it sometimes gets. But you people that come on here, dog allopathic medicine, and preach about how DO's are better are doing a disservice. Here are a few pointers that I do not think anyone will disagree with:

1. DO's are NOT "better" ot "more educated" than MD's, and MD's are not better or more educated than DO's. Each profession takes a slightly different approach to teaching people how to be great physicians, and one is not better than the other.

2. You don't like it when MD's claim osteopathy is an inferior form of medicine, right? Guess what, MD's don't like to be ragged on either. Your profession has fought against the political machine for over 100 years to gain the recognition and respect it deserves. Claiming to be inherently better than MD's makes you no better than those old AMA docs who tried to keep you from practicing 80 years ago. It does not further your cause, and it DOES set it back.

3. In this day and age, there is very little difference between the education of DO' and MD's, except for OMM. The ideological differences that linger are fading fast.

4. MD's can practice holistic patient centered medicine just as easily as DO's can, and many do. The way medicine is practiced by any indicidual, DO or MD, has a lot more to do with the person than it does with where s/he wenty to school or which philosophy (MD or DO) he was taught.

5. Guess what, most DO's, less those who practice OMM a lot (very few) prescribe just as many medications just as often as MD's do.

6. Yes, allopathic medicine is more recognized than osteopathic by the public, and the reason nowadays is sheer numbers, and our leadership and political machine has it much more together and is much more powerful. DO's need to get better leadership, better residency slots (AOA or keep lobbying for a combined match) and continue to perform exemplary work and eventually your professional will be just as accepted as allopathy is. Be proactive rather reactive!! It takes time for a minority in any field to get the full recognition it diserves, but the only way to do it is by proving your worth and place, which DO's have done a great job of (except for the leadership)

I love osteopathic medicine. I only chose an MD school instead because of the curriculum and the greater number of rotation slots at any given hospital. Please, stop making osteopathy look second rate by downing MD's, you don't like it when it happens to you.

here is agreat article posted by tkim in another thread: http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/paradox_of_osteopathy.htm

Hey dude,
Ur exaclty right, there are alot of jack** in both fields. More ppl should think like you. 👍

 

[Chisel]

There seems to be a large number of "holier than thou" DO people posting lately see such posters as..well I will not name names, but look at some recent threads like http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2416694#post2416694). I just want to tell you people something. I started out pre-DO and I know everything a pre-med possibly can about osteopathic medicine. It is a great profession that deserves more respect than it sometimes gets. But you people that come on here, dog allopathic medicine, and preach about how DO's are better are doing a disservice. Here are a few pointers that I do not think anyone will disagree with:

1. DO's are NOT "better" ot "more educated" than MD's, and MD's are not better or more educated than DO's. Each profession takes a slightly different approach to teaching people how to be great physicians, and one is not better than the other.

2. You don't like it when MD's claim osteopathy is an inferior form of medicine, right? Guess what, MD's don't like to be ragged on either. Your profession has fought against the political machine for over 100 years to gain the recognition and respect it deserves. Claiming to be inherently better than MD's makes you no better than those old AMA docs who tried to keep you from practicing 80 years ago. It does not further your cause, and it DOES set it back.

3. In this day and age, there is very little difference between the education of DO' and MD's, except for OMM. The ideological differences that linger are fading fast.

4. MD's can practice holistic patient centered medicine just as easily as DO's can, and many do. The way medicine is practiced by any indicidual, DO or MD, has a lot more to do with the person than it does with where s/he wenty to school or which philosophy (MD or DO) he was taught.

5. Guess what, most DO's, less those who practice OMM a lot (very few) prescribe just as many medications just as often as MD's do.

6. Yes, allopathic medicine is more recognized than osteopathic by the public, and the reason nowadays is sheer numbers, and our leadership and political machine has it much more together and is much more powerful. DO's need to get better leadership, better residency slots (AOA or keep lobbying for a combined match) and continue to perform exemplary work and eventually your professional will be just as accepted as allopathy is. Be proactive rather reactive!! It takes time for a minority in any field to get the full recognition it diserves, but the only way to do it is by proving your worth and place, which DO's have done a great job of (except for the leadership)

I love osteopathic medicine. I only chose an MD school instead because of the curriculum and the greater number of rotation slots at any given hospital. Please, stop making osteopathy look second rate by downing MD's, you don't like it when it happens to you.

here is agreat article posted by tkim in another thread: http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/paradox_of_osteopathy.htm

Not to start an argument, but, aren't these forums made for discussion?

I do agree that we should be proud and secure in our choices to become DO. However, for some people it is necessary to raise their own status by pushing others down. I am not saying this is right. This is the nature of medicine as you will find as you experience more in your medical career.

Second, are you not claiming to be "holier than thou" by posting such a ridiculous post claiming to "know everything a pre-med can know about Osteopathy"? And are you not being "holier than thou" by telling DO's to be secure in themselves and by telling the same people to end all discussions of MD vs DO?

The nature of life is discussion. There will always be discussion on both sides of this topic. And it is these discussions that will continue to help to define both Osteopathic and Allopathic medicine.

So to those being "holier than thou" - I say continue the discussions. But, as this post suggests, be secure in Osteopathy and promote DO's by showing why we're unique, not by bashing MD's.

Just my opinion. Take it for the two cents that it is worth.

Chisel

 

[shane679]

There seems to be a large number of "holier than thou" DO people posting lately see such posters as..well I will not name names, but look at some recent threads like http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2416694#post2416694). I just want to tell you people something. I started out pre-DO and I know everything a pre-med possibly can about osteopathic medicine. It is a great profession that deserves more respect than it sometimes gets. But you people that come on here, dog allopathic medicine, and preach about how DO's are better are doing a disservice. Here are a few pointers that I do not think anyone will disagree with:

1. DO's are NOT "better" ot "more educated" than MD's, and MD's are not better or more educated than DO's. Each profession takes a slightly different approach to teaching people how to be great physicians, and one is not better than the other.

2. You don't like it when MD's claim osteopathy is an inferior form of medicine, right? Guess what, MD's don't like to be ragged on either. Your profession has fought against the political machine for over 100 years to gain the recognition and respect it deserves. Claiming to be inherently better than MD's makes you no better than those old AMA docs who tried to keep you from practicing 80 years ago. It does not further your cause, and it DOES set it back.

3. In this day and age, there is very little difference between the education of DO' and MD's, except for OMM. The ideological differences that linger are fading fast.

4. MD's can practice holistic patient centered medicine just as easily as DO's can, and many do. The way medicine is practiced by any indicidual, DO or MD, has a lot more to do with the person than it does with where s/he wenty to school or which philosophy (MD or DO) he was taught.

5. Guess what, most DO's, less those who practice OMM a lot (very few) prescribe just as many medications just as often as MD's do.

6. Yes, allopathic medicine is more recognized than osteopathic by the public, and the reason nowadays is sheer numbers, and our leadership and political machine has it much more together and is much more powerful. DO's need to get better leadership, better residency slots (AOA or keep lobbying for a combined match) and continue to perform exemplary work and eventually your professional will be just as accepted as allopathy is. Be proactive rather reactive!! It takes time for a minority in any field to get the full recognition it diserves, but the only way to do it is by proving your worth and place, which DO's have done a great job of (except for the leadership)

I love osteopathic medicine. I only chose an MD school instead because of the curriculum and the greater number of rotation slots at any given hospital. Please, stop making osteopathy look second rate by downing MD's, you don't like it when it happens to you.

here is agreat article posted by tkim in another thread: http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/paradox_of_osteopathy.htm

1 and 3 This "except for OMM" accounts for hours of more education.
4 There are a number of MDs following this approach.

I believe that the osteopathic philosophy is one that is different than the typical allopathic train of thought. However, I do not believe that it is necessary to put another group of individuals down for self-advancement. I know a number of physicians (DOs and MDs) and respect most of them. The quality of physician a person becomes is much dependant on them, not the place that they were educated. I would, without doubt, love to see the respect level of DO students and physicians continue to rise. I think that there is still a difference between to two groups and DOs should be proud of osteopathic principles. This difference and pride does not mean better. Different simply means not the same. So, although I would like to be an osteopathic physician (allopathic second), I would appreciate the DO vs. MD conflict come to an end. I have no problem with promoting the osteopathic tradition, but not at the expense of others. If we believe that the whole person approach is the best thing for the community, then we should have no problem with the allopathic move toward this practice. As osteopathic students and physicians, we can continue to promote health and keep the tradition growing. If we continue to work hard, we will not need to compete, we will be chosen.

Remember that we want to be professionals. This means that we have mutual respect for those in the medical community. Treat others how you want to be treated and remember that "you don't like it when it happens to you."

Hope that everyone has a great day and respect for each other continues to grow 🙂 🙂 🙂 .

csh

 

[medic170]

Not to start an argument, but, aren't these forums made for discussion?

I do agree that we should be proud and secure in our choices to become DO. However, for some people it is necessary to raise their own status by pushing others down. I am not saying this is right. This is the nature of medicine as you will find as you experience more in your medical career.

Second, are you not claiming to be "holier than thou" by posting such a ridiculous post claiming to "know everything a pre-med can know about Osteopathy"? And are you not being "holier than thou" by telling DO's to be secure in themselves and by telling the same people to end all discussions of MD vs DO?

The nature of life is discussion. There will always be discussion on both sides of this topic. And it is these discussions that will continue to help to define both Osteopathic and Allopathic medicine.

So to those being "holier than thou" - I say continue the discussions. But, as this post suggests, be secure in Osteopathy and promote DO's by showing why we're unique, not by bashing MD's.

Just my opinion. Take it for the two cents that it is worth.

Chisel

1. Putting down another group of professionals in order to try to relieve one's own insecuruties is not a discussion. There is no such thing as MD's vs. DO's really. They are not against eachother, they are colleagues.

2. How is being informed on the subject and tellind DO's that they should be secure in their profession a "holier than thou" attitude? I fail to see your reasoning.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I don't think you can effectively end DO vs. MD threads by starting one of your own. Reverse psychology it may be, but it won't work. I predict a quick downward spiral of this one as well.

 

[Dr Alo]

A doctor is a doctor is a doctor is a doctor....

 

[Bull's eye]

There seems to be a large number of "holier than thou" DO people posting lately see such posters as..well I will not name names, but look at some recent threads like http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2416694#post2416694). I just want to tell you people something. I started out pre-DO and I know everything a pre-med possibly can about osteopathic medicine. It is a great profession that deserves more respect than it sometimes gets. But you people that come on here, dog allopathic medicine, and preach about how DO's are better are doing a disservice. Here are a few pointers that I do not think anyone will disagree with:

1. DO's are NOT "better" ot "more educated" than MD's, and MD's are not better or more educated than DO's. Each profession takes a slightly different approach to teaching people how to be great physicians, and one is not better than the other.

2. You don't like it when MD's claim osteopathy is an inferior form of medicine, right? Guess what, MD's don't like to be ragged on either. Your profession has fought against the political machine for over 100 years to gain the recognition and respect it deserves. Claiming to be inherently better than MD's makes you no better than those old AMA docs who tried to keep you from practicing 80 years ago. It does not further your cause, and it DOES set it back.

3. In this day and age, there is very little difference between the education of DO' and MD's, except for OMM. The ideological differences that linger are fading fast.

4. MD's can practice holistic patient centered medicine just as easily as DO's can, and many do. The way medicine is practiced by any indicidual, DO or MD, has a lot more to do with the person than it does with where s/he wenty to school or which philosophy (MD or DO) he was taught.

5. Guess what, most DO's, less those who practice OMM a lot (very few) prescribe just as many medications just as often as MD's do.

6. Yes, allopathic medicine is more recognized than osteopathic by the public, and the reason nowadays is sheer numbers, and our leadership and political machine has it much more together and is much more powerful. DO's need to get better leadership, better residency slots (AOA or keep lobbying for a combined match) and continue to perform exemplary work and eventually your professional will be just as accepted as allopathy is. Be proactive rather reactive!! It takes time for a minority in any field to get the full recognition it diserves, but the only way to do it is by proving your worth and place, which DO's have done a great job of (except for the leadership)

I love osteopathic medicine. I only chose an MD school instead because of the curriculum and the greater number of rotation slots at any given hospital. Please, stop making osteopathy look second rate by downing MD's, you don't like it when it happens to you.

here is agreat article posted by tkim in another thread: http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/paradox_of_osteopathy.htm

Good post. Most of the MD vs. DO stuff comes from the pre-meds. It decreases some in med school and decreases a lot more in residency and is almost non-existent in practice. Alas, ignorance is ignorance and the debate will rage on. I'm gald you will be my collegue.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I predict a quick downward spiral of this one as well.

i cant imagine why u would think that

 

[docbill]

You guys have too much time on your hand.

You should get a hobby rather than argue about DOs vs. MDs. Better yet.. you should look at all the bad laws are being passed and how interest groups are controling government regulations and putting the public at lost.

You missing things in life that are more enjoyable/important.

 

[medic170]

You guys have too much time on your hand.

You should get a hobby rather than argue about DOs vs. MDs. Better yet.. you should look at all the bad laws are being passed and how interest groups are controling government regulations and putting the public at lost.

You missing things in life that are more enjoyable/important.

True

 

[Static Line]

Good post. Most of the MD vs. DO stuff comes from the pre-meds. It decreases some in med school and decreases a lot more in residency and is almost non-existent in practice. Alas, ignorance is ignorance and the debate will rage on. I'm gald you will be my collegue.

You're right for the most part. I found an exception this past weekend though. As a paramedic, I covered the WWE wrestling event, and I was dedicated solely for the transport of any injured wrestlers. So I go meet up with the wrestlers team doctor for assignment and we begin a discussion. It turns out that the main doctor for WWE is a DO surgeon. When he is not able to travel with the wrestlers on tour he has a network nationwide of only DO's who medically cover the wrestlers, and they purposely keep it in the DO ranks to the best of their ability. The team trainer told me it has little to do with OMT though. Most of the wrestlers are too big for OMT and most of the docs are too scared to try it on them for fear of causing them problems. He didn't elaborate on that point though so I am not sure what kind of problems he was refering to. It is obvious they are pretty sore though when returning to the warm-up room after they wrestle, and they could probably use some sort of OMT along with a heavy dose of Percocet and Valium.

 

[Chisel]

I don't think you can effectively end DO vs. MD threads by starting one of your own. Reverse psychology it may be, but it won't work. I predict a quick downward spiral of this one as well.

My point exactly.

1. Putting down another group of professionals in order to try to relieve one's own insecuruties is not a discussion. There is no such thing as MD's vs. DO's really. They are not against each other, they are colleagues.

2. How is being informed on the subject and tellind DO's that they should be secure in their profession a "holier than thou" attitude? I fail to see your reasoning.

Isn't it semantics here DO "vs" MD----sorry for the vs. How can you not consider it a "discussion". There's side A and side B. Both state and defend their arguments. If not a discussion then what is it?

I never meant to sound as if I am against my MD counterparts. If it sounded this way, then I apologize.

I agree we are colleagues and we will continue to work side by side. However to imagine an end to the MD/DO "discussion" would be ridiculous.


Chisel
PCOM MS III

PS- I prefaced my earlier post by saying I didn't want to start an argument.

 

[medic170]

However to imagine an end to the MD/DO "discussion" would be ridiculous.
.

You are right.
well, at least as long as that type of thinking prevails

 

[Khirurg]

The argument should be on based on a given individual only. There are plenty of *****s with either M.D. or D.O. after their names. Do all DO's really treat everybody as a "whole"(sounds very funny, actually ), or all MDs treat disease only, rather than organism? Common.
However, there is an issue. To get into allopathic school you have to have a certain level of achievements, oftentimes higher than into osteopathic school. And, common, let's get real, there is a huge number of DO's who went to osteo school because they didn't get into the allopathic school. So, on the average, the level of students in allopathic school is higher than in osteopathic school. That being said, there are very bright as well as very mmm, simple students in both institutions, however, because AOA is trying to multiply DO's in huge numbers, quality suffers, and percentwise it seems higher than in allopathic schools. You have a substantial numbers of people coming out of the school, who shouldn't come near a patient. But they do and when they do, they feed that stereotype.
What I think should happen, since osteo schools for a long while will have to accept people who are level below those that go to allopathic schools, they should make the passing and graduating criteria much stricter. Yes, that will result in high level of drop outs and failures, but the quality will be there. And that quality will give the necessary reputation.

 

[medicine1]

You guys have too much time on your hand.

You should get a hobby rather than argue about DOs vs. MDs. Better yet.. you should look at all the bad laws are being passed and how interest groups are controling government regulations and putting the public at lost.

You missing things in life that are more enjoyable/important.

In Oklahoma, Legislation has passed that will allow non-physicians to perform eye surgery.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13929.html

 

[medicine1]

The argument should be on based on a given individual only. There are plenty of *****s with either M.D. or D.O. after their names. Do all DO's really treat everybody as a "whole"(sounds very funny, actually ), or all MDs treat disease only, rather than organism? Common.
However, there is an issue. To get into allopathic school you have to have a certain level of achievements, oftentimes higher than into osteopathic school. And, common, let's get real, there is a huge number of DO's who went to osteo school because they didn't get into the allopathic school. So, on the average, the level of students in allopathic school is higher than in osteopathic school. That being said, there are very bright as well as very mmm, simple students in both institutions, however, because AOA is trying to multiply DO's in huge numbers, quality suffers, and percentwise it seems higher than in allopathic schools. You have a substantial numbers of people coming out of the school, who shouldn't come near a patient. But they do and when they do, they feed that stereotype.
What I think should happen, since osteo schools for a long while will have to accept people who are level below those that go to allopathic schools, they should make the passing and graduating criteria much stricter. Yes, that will result in high level of drop outs and failures, but the quality will be there. And that quality will give the necessary reputation.

I pity you Khirurg . And your words make me want to puke. 👎
I would like to know what credentials you possess, that make you better than us
I would like to see how competent you are, especially in a hospital setting.