MD MD vs DO from MD perspective

[Goro]

That was not my experience. They taught the material on the syllabus. Their research was irrelevant.


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Il Destriero

I'm quoting SDNers and some of my own faculty colleages. I agree that different schools will vary greatly.

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[NotYou20]

This wasn't ever supposed to be a "DO vs MD thread." There was a very specific question asked about the MD curriculum, then everyone jumped in here to argue this same inane bs again. There's still people talking about third year and the difference in quality, or lack thereof, in clinical rotations and the interns they produce. YOU are the problem with this thread.

The question is not going to have a good answer for the obvious reason that md students have never been do students. Even the very few that have can only compare the schools they've been to, which may or may not be an accurate reflection of whatever general differences there are. The op is asking a question that very few people can answer and he probably should've realized it. Someone who can't answer it, but bumps the thread for whatever reason, is doing all they can to help. No need to be so pissy about it

 

[IlDestriero]

This thread tells me that NPs are lacking major respect. MDs and DOs need to recognize NPs' contribution to the quality of healthcare delivery and pay them accordingly to their produced volume and revenue.

Right on point man!

Should we pay them like physicians too? Cause it’s like the same job and stuff?
That argument doesn’t work at the Ferrari dealership either, btw.

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Il Destriero

 

[68PGunner]

Right on point man!
Should we pay them like physicians too? Cause it’s like the same job and stuff?
That argument doesn’t work at the Ferrari dealership either.
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Il Destriero

Well, they're major players in healthcare delivery... Respect is severely lacking with all of these MDs and DOs arguing against each other. We need to have a thread about the education difference bet MD vs DO vs NP here.

NPs are growing in size and will need to be recognized in term of increasing pay and respect. We need more NP CEOs at hospital chains here.

 

[ewax]

Well, they're major players in healthcare delivery... Respect is severely lacking with all of these MDs and DOs arguing against each other. We need to have a thread about the education difference bet MD vs DO vs NP here.

NPs are growing in size and will need to be recognized in term of increasing pay and respect. We need more NP CEOs at hospital chains here.

 

[Stagg737]

Wow, your colleague was bashing MDs and I merely told him he was unprofessional. Unreal that this kind of behavior is tolerated for you guys.

You do realize the people you commented about "bashing MDs" are actually MDs making sarcastic statements, right?

 

[HueySmith]

MD and DO are essentially the same in clinic settings. However, DOs are discriminated against during residency placements. That's all.

 

[Lnsean]

word..dawg

 

[Lnsean]

You do realize the people you commented about "bashing MDs" are actually MDs making sarcastic statements, right?

Umm no. Here are the direct quotes from your colleagues and what you are defending:

You both forgot that md students are all kissesless virgins too smdh

Wait a minute, are you implying that lower board scores and MCAT doesn't mean you are inherently a more caring individual who has more people skills and is more personable? Or that everyone with solid testing abilities isn't a socially awkward nerd who has never had a job before and is extremely immature?

As a DO resident teaching both DO and MD medical students, i would say the above is generally true, but which is better? In my experience, MD students on average seem more awkward, younger, and more of the traditional student that has never had a job. Many of the DO med students I've worked with are excellent with patients, can apply themselves clinically, and are socially aware of their surroundings. In my specialty, this goes further than high board scores.

I have also seen really good MDs and really bad DOs where the roles are flipped.

 

[Donald Juan]

Umm no. Here are the direct quotes from your colleagues and what you are defending:

My post and @NotYou20 post were obvious sarcasm.

 

[HueySmith]

People can say DOs are more personable or less socially awkward or whatever, but they're talking out of their asses. In reality, there is a wide and comparable spectrum of personality that choose to go to medical schools, MD or DO. There can be socially awkward or socially adjusted people in both MD and DO schools. All these nonsense about, "MD residents are awkward, computer robots who only treat symptoms, and the DO resident is like a social butterfly, getting along with patients, and talk about their day, blah blah blah" is bs. In reality, DO schools are only for people who don't have the stats for MD schools, don't want to spend more money or time to try to get into MD schools, really like the idea of osteopathy or really respected DOs and OMMs, or had geographic restriction/scholarships at DO schools.

 

[68PGunner]

Umm no. Here are the direct quotes from your colleagues and what you are defending:

It looks like you got trolled hard by your fellow MDs.

Donald Juan and NotYou20 are both MDs.

 

[Lnsean]

It looks like you got trolled hard by your fellow MDs.

Donald Juan and NotYou20 are both MDs.

Highly inappropriate in either case.

 

[Donald Juan]

Highly inappropriate in either case.

We were both using a satirical approach to point out the ridiculousness of the false dichotomy that being smarter on paper must mean you are inherently less capable at social interactions. The fact that you have so much trouble in understanding this, and the fact that you call out us for using humor as "inappropriate" actually gives argument to the other side, that maybe you, being one with better scores, cannot understand basic social cues.

 

[Lnsean]

We were both using a satirical approach to point out the ridiculousness of the false dichotomy that being smarter on paper must mean you are inherently less capable at social interactions. The fact that you have so much trouble in understanding this, and the fact that you call out us for using humor as "inappropriate" actually gives argument to the other side, that maybe you, being one with better scores, cannot understand basic social cues.

Huh? Other posters have said that it was also unprofessional. It was not just me. How about you stop acting like children and let the thread get back to its original purpose? Isn't there a dicking-around thread somewhere else? Do you need my help to create one for you? Also, the other comment was not sarcastic; it seemed like he was on an emotional rant. Just saying...grow up.

 

[Stagg737]

Umm no. Here are the direct quotes from your colleagues and what you are defending:

In addition to what @Donald Juan said, Frkybgstok's quote was not bashing MD's at all either, just making an observation based on the students he/she has worked with. He/she even said they've seen that flipped plenty of times. If you really think that's "MD bashing" and are taking it personally (as you seem to be), you need to get a thicker skin ASAP or you're going to get torn apart when you get to the hospital.

 

[Lnsean]

In addition to what @Donald Juan said, Frkybgstok's quote was not bashing MD's at all either, just making an observation based on the students he/she has worked with. He/she even said they've seen that flipped plenty of times. If you really think that's "MD bashing" and are taking it personally (as you seem to be), you need to get a thicker skin ASAP or you're going to get torn apart when you get to the hospital.

It was clearly bashing. Don't defend such behavior.

 

[Chibucks15]

People can say DOs are more personable or less socially awkward or whatever, but they're talking out of their asses. In reality, there is a wide and comparable spectrum of personality that choose to go to medical schools, MD or DO. There can be socially awkward or socially adjusted people in both MD and DO schools. All these nonsense about, "MD residents are awkward, computer robots who only treat symptoms, and the DO resident is like a social butterfly, getting along with patients, and talk about their day, blah blah blah" is bs. In reality, DO schools are only for people who don't have the stats for MD schools, don't want to spend more money or time to try to get into MD schools, really like the idea of osteopathy or really respected DOs and OMMs, or had geographic restriction/scholarships at DO schools.

Completely agree, I chose mine based on geography, cost, and not wanting to spend additional time out of school. The holistic stuff is nonsense, MDs do the same things. I believe the pushback on posts like this comes from a predisposition to have to defend intelligence and 'worthyness' for lack of a better term, of DO students and to some over-exuberant pre-med already reading FA in undergrad or some M1 who needs a confidence boost for his ego when he's barely passing. At this point we just need a subforum of MD vs DO vs PA vs NP so people can get all wound up there

 

[IlDestriero]

My comment was both sarcastic and correct with an illustrative analogy. Helpful all around.


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Il Destriero

 

[Stagg737]

It was clearly bashing. Don't defend such behavior.

It was someone expressing their opinion based on real life experience. That's not bashing. At this point you're either trolling or just being a far too accurate representation of the snowflake mentality.

Also, OP's question was already answered plenty of times in this and 500 other threads. There's no difference in what MDs and DOs learn except DOs also learn OMM./thread

 

[Lnsean]

It was someone expressing their opinion based on real life experience. That's not bashing. At this point you're either trolling or just being a far too accurate representation of the snowflake mentality.

Also, OP's question was already answered plenty of times in this and 500 other threads. There's no difference in what MDs and DOs learn except DOs also learn OMM./thread

Let's just agree to disagree and move on. I don't want to derail this thread.

 

[NotYou20]

It looks like you got trolled hard by your fellow MDs.

Donald Juan and NotYou20 are both MDs.

Not that it matters because the joke was obvious to everyone else, but I'm a DO student. Luckily for @Lnsean I know the perfect bone wizard technique to fix stick-up-butt syndrome

 

[Lnsean]

Not that it matters because the joke was obvious to everyone else, but I'm a DO student. Luckily for @Lnsean I know the perfect bone wizard technique to fix stick-up-butt syndrome

Umm no. Your comment was inappropriate and reeks of immaturity. It was not obvious to everyone as others have said the same thing. I think you are just passing it off as a joke now that you're called out on it. Which is fine...just grow up next time before you post again.

Comments on here have become unprofessional.. At the end of the day DOs and MDs have equivalent rights and privileges and work together. There no point in making tasteless comments

 

[Chibucks15]

Umm no. Your comment was inappropriate and reeks of immaturity. It was not obvious to everyone as others have said the same thing. I think you are just passing it off as a joke now that you're called out on it. Which is fine...just grow up next time before you post again.

Dude you gotta chill...no one else got offended

 

[Lnsean]

Dude you gotta chill...no one else got offended

Yea they did. I just posted the quote for you.

 

[Chibucks15]

Yea they did. I just posted the quote for you.

and yet we move on with our lives. Real clinical settings can be a hell of a lot worse buckle up

 

[Lnsean]

and yet we move on with our lives. Real clinical settings can be a hell of a lot worse buckle up

Let me worry about that. You do you okay? I don't know why you are so worried about me...we barely know each other. I mean I don't think about you at all.

 

[Chibucks15]

Let me worry about that. You do you okay? I don't know why you are so worried about me...we barely know each other. I mean I don't think about you at all.

damn I thought you did...

 

[Chibucks15]

Let me worry about that. You do you okay? I don't know why you are so worried about me...we barely know each other. I mean I don't think about you at all.

Best of luck on your crusade to end meanness. Back to the books for me

 

[deleted407021]

^ that was weird

 

[NotYou20]

Umm no. Your comment was inappropriate and reeks of immaturity. It was not obvious to everyone as others have said the same thing. I think you are just passing it off as a joke now that you're called out on it. Which is fine...just grow up next time before you post again.

ok. If you want to believe I think all MD students are virgins you can go ahead with that

 

[Lnsean]

Ummm....No. But ok. If you want to believe I think all MD students are virgins you can go ahead with that

If people are telling you they have problems with it, you should stop. End of discussion.

 

[HueySmith]

^ that was weird

That's typical of whenever an MD vs DO thread comes up. Some nonsensical and pointless argument between 2+ internet warriors and their bruised fragile ego.

 

[NotYou20]

If people are telling you they have problems with it, you should stop. End of discussion.

I have a problem with you saying that

 

[Lnsean]

I have a problem with you saying that

Grow up dude. If you want to bash MDs...create another thread.

 

[kenjixshadow]

 

[Goro]

My comment was both sarcastic and correct with an illustrative analogy. Helpful all around.


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Il Destriero

You've been around SDN long enough to know what sarcasm doesn't travel well over the electrons!

What did Huey do to get Banhammer smacked? Troll respawn?

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

Also not true. The new Md schools that have opened up, with the possible exception of that joke of a for profit school in CA, tend to have very good clinical affiliations - for example the Beaumont med school in Michigan which is affiliated with the biggest hospital system in the state.

They also tend to start their classes out very small (the exact opposite of new DO schools) in order to ensure adequate access to rotations, then grow over time.

Of course there's CNU, like you mentioned, but there is quinnipiac, Washington state, and I'm sure some others that have some good rotations, but many of their students end up in community hospitals that are not major academic teaching hospitals. Of course for a school like Washington state that hasn't sent students to 3rd year yet, it's simply based on their list of affiliated clinics (no university owned hospital). This is a much larger problem on the DO side, I'm not denying that, but for those of us that go to established schools with excellent clinical rotations in a 500 bed hospital where we see tons of pathology, work with residents on every rotation, have access to research opportunities, and are given a good amount of autonomy as medical students, I don't see how you can say that is not better than SOME of the newer MD schools opening up.

That being said, the main point of my post is that we need to work together and there are plenty of us on the DO side that are well prepared clinically. The MDs with whom I have worked are great teachers and give zero f@c$ about what type of degree I am obtaining. Likewise, I don't care about the type of their degree. At the end of the day it is a piece of paper that allows you the eligibility to practice medicine if you get licensed. We should judge our colleagues on their ability as a fully trained physician and their ability to work with others to the PATIENTS' benefits, not our own egos.

 

[deleted274002]

MD and DO are essentially the same in clinic settings. However, DOs are discriminated against during residency placements. That's all.

That word does not mean what you think it means if you use it in this context.

 

[evilbooyaa]

If people are telling you they have problems with it, you should stop. End of discussion.

LMAO. SDN dictatorship right here. This guy needs to stop being a sensitive snowflake.

That is all I have to add. If you didn't realize NotYouTwo and Donald Juan were being sarcastic then I think there's something wrong with you.

 

[Lnsean]

LMAO. SDN dictatorship right here. This guy needs to stop being a sensitive snowflake.

That is all I have to add. If you didn't realize NotYouTwo and Donald Juan were being sarcastic then I think there's something wrong with you.

Plenty of people had problems with that he said. It wasn't just me. Scroll back and read it.

 

[Chibucks15]

Please let this thread die man what is there to gain?...

 

[Stagg737]

Please let this thread die man what is there to gain?...

Self-righteous victory, the most important kind of victory to the politically correct.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Plenty of people had problems with that he said. It wasn't just me. Scroll back and read it.

Nah, I'm good. Keep insisting on your points, it's entertaining.

Anyways, glad to this thread immediately crashed and burned like I imagined it would it in the first post. Glad we could all have this discussion again.

 

[Chibucks15]

Nah, I'm good. Keep insisting on your points, it's entertaining.

Anyways, glad to this thread immediately crashed and burned like I imagined it would it in the first post. Glad we could all have this discussion again.

same time next week?

 

[Lnsean]

Nah, I'm good. Keep insisting on your points, it's entertaining.

Anyways, glad to this thread immediately crashed and burned like I imagined it would it in the first post. Glad we could all have this discussion again.

As it should. That would be like me and other MDs going into the DO forums and starting stupid **** like this and trash talking them. It should all crash and burn.

So yea..please let the thread die. No point in you resurrecting it.

 

[danthemahan]

The concept of difference between MD and DO schools can largely be explained by the students each select for: DO schools are generally an nth-degree less competitive to enter. Naturally, these students may underperform their MD colleagues.

I say this to justify one additional angle to this story: nearly all medical students are self-taught for at least the first 2 years. I'm currently attending a DO school, and I can say that hardly anyone in my class ever "needed" classroom time. Lectures have almost become a formality. I know my MD colleagues have shared the same opinion. I believe this is further supported by the fact that most medical schools are making the switch to recorded lectures, etc. The internet, -cough- pathoma, and other resources have revolutionized the way we are taught - it is no longer dependent upon carrying a paper and pen into a classroom and writing notes, nor is it even dependent upon your professor. Any lack in "good teaching" by a faculty member is easily made up via outside resources.

Bottom line: If there is any generalized difference between a DO and an MD's education, it can largely be explained by who DO and MD schools select for. Any discrepancies that may exist in the quality of a DO vs MD education, at least for the first 2 years, are easily resolved by engaging in self-teaching. If a student does not graduate as a competent physician, whether he is an MD or DO, it is largely his fault given the huge self-teaching component of medical school that is common among all schools today. We can no longer blame it on faculty or the last two letters following our name.

 

[Kissmyabjj]

If I hid the credentials of all of the residents in my residency as asked you to guess which of us were DO’s, US MD’s, or foreign-trained MD’s by spending time working with each of us, I guarantee you would would have no better odds of guessing correctly than chance alone.

 

[sliceofbread136]

The concept of difference between MD and DO schools can largely be explained by the students each select for: DO schools are generally an nth-degree less competitive to enter. Naturally, these students may underperform their MD colleagues.

I say this to justify one additional angle to this story: nearly all medical students are self-taught for at least the first 2 years. I'm currently attending a DO school, and I can say that hardly anyone in my class ever "needed" classroom time. Lectures have almost become a formality. I know my MD colleagues have shared the same opinion. I believe this is further supported by the fact that most medical schools are making the switch to recorded lectures, etc. The internet, -cough- pathoma, and other resources have revolutionized the way we are taught - it is no longer dependent upon carrying a paper and pen into a classroom and writing notes, nor is it even dependent upon your professor. Any lack in "good teaching" by a faculty member is easily made up via outside resources.

Bottom line: If there is any generalized difference between a DO and an MD's education, it can largely be explained by who DO and MD schools select for. Any discrepancies that may exist in the quality of a DO vs MD education, at least for the first 2 years, are easily resolved by engaging in self-teaching. If a student does not graduate as a competent physician, whether he is an MD or DO, it is largely his fault given the huge self-teaching component of medical school that is common among all schools today. We can no longer blame it on faculty or the last two letters following our name.

You have to take into account years three and four, and from what I have heard the quality of clinical rotations at a DO generally are not as high as most MD schools. That could lead to some differences in training outcomes at least going into intern year

 

[HappiDoctor]

You have to take into account years three and four, and from what I have heard the quality of clinical rotations at a DO generally are not as high as most MD schools. That could lead to some differences in training outcomes at least going into intern year

You heard wrong......you sources are not legit