I was getting bored 🙂 This is written by a professor, as that is what is said by the intro. Unless of course Purdue University is posting a completely false article on its website. In which case I suggest you email then and tell them their professors are idiots who don't know what the Ph.D is. Just maybe you can get transferred to the person who wrote it!
I was getting bored 🙂 This is written by a professor, as that is what is said by the intro. Unless of course Purdue University is posting a completely false article on its website. In which case I suggest you email then and tell them their professors are idiots who don't know what the Ph.D is. Just maybe you can get transferred to the person who wrote it!
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Hmmm...not sure if that would be a good idea. Still, be aware that this article is only the opinion of one person and I have to say that it's the first of its kind that I've encountered. If you want to do a Ph.D., just do it. Any old fool can.....even me!
Yeah, if you're a smart fool 🙂 I would think you would have to be extremely good to get into a Ph.D program. Maybe it's not as hard as getting into an MD program, but it still has be darn hard.
Well that's one link I was getting my info. It's sort of hard not to believe something since he is a professional Ph.D holder and it's on the colleges website. But I think the article proved some good points.
But my point is, does having a Ph.D really help you in terms of getting a "normal" job? Say you want to become a regular business person, is it going to land you a good job at Microsoft as a computer person? From what I've heard, they would rather have a MS degree. Unless of course it was computer research or something like that.
I'm from India, and I have a MBBS degree. I was fortunate to join med school at a time when the top 10% could make it into med school (about 8 yrs back). Now, its down to the top 1-2%.
I've known several american students who studied with me here, and their having a pre-med degree served no distinct advantage. (Whether they were intelligent enough to use it is another issue!).
In india, medical teaching hospitals offer free or extremely subsidised care to the public. You can meet with a super-specialist who has degrees from all over the world for as little as $1 for a consultation. Such a set up offers a huge inflow of patients. The catch for the patient is that he gets to be examined by a horde of curious medical students. AIIMS in Delhi for example gets about 1000 patients per day in their gastroenterology OPD department!
As a doctor, you're going to learn more looking at a patient than any text book will teach you. When you study MBBS in a developing country, you have a huge amount of material to deal with. Also, were taught to make diagnoses without relying on sophisticated investigations. Were taught to use those to confirm our findings. This is extremely essential when you are learning your basic medicine. The competition is tremendous.
Each country has its advantage in learning. I suppose a lot of people are misinformed. Colleagues who studied with me went to the US only for the money. That is the sole attraction.
I'm not saying that MBBS is better than a MD or vice versa. I believe that each country has its own plus points and I dont think any are superior. Its the effort you put in and the advantage you make use of your facilities that make you a good doctor! Its totally an individual effort.
I've known several american students who studied with me here, and their having a pre-med degree served no distinct advantage. (Whether they were intelligent enough to use it is another issue!).
In india, medical teaching hospitals offer free or extremely subsidised care to the public. You can meet with a super-specialist who has degrees from all over the world for as little as $1 for a consultation. Such a set up offers a huge inflow of patients. The catch for the patient is that he gets to be examined by a horde of curious medical students. AIIMS in Delhi for example gets about 1000 patients per day in their gastroenterology OPD department!
As a doctor, you're going to learn more looking at a patient than any text book will teach you. When you study MBBS in a developing country, you have a huge amount of material to deal with. Also, were taught to make diagnoses without relying on sophisticated investigations. Were taught to use those to confirm our findings. This is extremely essential when you are learning your basic medicine. The competition is tremendous.
Each country has its advantage in learning. I suppose a lot of people are misinformed. Colleagues who studied with me went to the US only for the money. That is the sole attraction.
I'm not saying that MBBS is better than a MD or vice versa. I believe that each country has its own plus points and I dont think any are superior. Its the effort you put in and the advantage you make use of your facilities that make you a good doctor! Its totally an individual effort.
Alright lets get the basics out of the way...
I am American, Have traveled much, consider myself to be open-minded.
I as you see am going to an US med school, specifically DO for the purpose of avoiding the MD B.S. I personally believe that to be a doctor is not a priviledge but a Honor. further, DO's are in my view superior to MD's, as for MBBS I dont know enough.
I will say, education in preclinical does not make a doctor, hell PhD. stud. take these classes here on the way to doing their research... The clinical education is where it is at. I would define the American system as 6 years preclinical followed by 5 -11 years of clinical to becoming a board cert physician, recognized around the world.
I believe that my desire to be a servant to my patients, Also greater know as COMPASSION, will direct my ability to treat. So as for this BS regarding MD/MBBS/DO/otherwise nut grabber... I do not believe that any of you have really hit the point of medical care....
Medical Care is given.... by a healthcare professional, as doctors we just get to do more invasive procedures...
Well I have said my peace
God Bless each of you
DrDad
I am American, Have traveled much, consider myself to be open-minded.
I as you see am going to an US med school, specifically DO for the purpose of avoiding the MD B.S. I personally believe that to be a doctor is not a priviledge but a Honor. further, DO's are in my view superior to MD's, as for MBBS I dont know enough.
I will say, education in preclinical does not make a doctor, hell PhD. stud. take these classes here on the way to doing their research... The clinical education is where it is at. I would define the American system as 6 years preclinical followed by 5 -11 years of clinical to becoming a board cert physician, recognized around the world.
I believe that my desire to be a servant to my patients, Also greater know as COMPASSION, will direct my ability to treat. So as for this BS regarding MD/MBBS/DO/otherwise nut grabber... I do not believe that any of you have really hit the point of medical care....
Medical Care is given.... by a healthcare professional, as doctors we just get to do more invasive procedures...
Well I have said my peace
God Bless each of you
DrDad
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Do you know thtat for years organized allopathic medicine tried to discredit and smear DO's ?
Basically they wanted to eliminate competition.
I am far from knowing everything but more than a decade of medical practice (usa) has taught me some things.
The knowledge base in medical sciences is the same throughout the world.
Leg bone connected to the hip bone, etc etc.
Each person takes out of medical college what they choose to take. The mere fact of attending school A over school B means little to nothing aside from political correctness and ability to get a highly sought after residency.
Years ago when I was a resident I knew an Indian doctor (school in India) and FRCS who for the life of him could not get an ortho residency for the pleasure of repeating in the usa.
He did some IMG OK research at Harvard, reapplied, and was about to sue an ortho program that finally accepted him. He knew more than the program director at the ortho program in NYC, yet for yearsm the program called him an inferior applicant compared to a US school graduate.
The guy was a friggin board certified orthopedic surgeon that knew more than the program director that had rejected him.
My take on all this is it doesn't mean squat whether you have a DO, MD, or any of the other medical degrees, what matters is what you end up knowing after the training is done. PERIOD
Basically they wanted to eliminate competition.
I am far from knowing everything but more than a decade of medical practice (usa) has taught me some things.
The knowledge base in medical sciences is the same throughout the world.
Leg bone connected to the hip bone, etc etc.
Each person takes out of medical college what they choose to take. The mere fact of attending school A over school B means little to nothing aside from political correctness and ability to get a highly sought after residency.
Years ago when I was a resident I knew an Indian doctor (school in India) and FRCS who for the life of him could not get an ortho residency for the pleasure of repeating in the usa.
He did some IMG OK research at Harvard, reapplied, and was about to sue an ortho program that finally accepted him. He knew more than the program director at the ortho program in NYC, yet for yearsm the program called him an inferior applicant compared to a US school graduate.
The guy was a friggin board certified orthopedic surgeon that knew more than the program director that had rejected him.
My take on all this is it doesn't mean squat whether you have a DO, MD, or any of the other medical degrees, what matters is what you end up knowing after the training is done. PERIOD
Again, it certainly can matter, for very practical reasons, depending on your interests.
For example:
1) if getting a top residency in a (non-generalist) specialty is what matters, AMG MDs have a significant advantage over DOs, and DOs have some advantage over IMG MD's (and their equivalent degrees). This can matter, for example, if you plan on doing med research.
2) if practicing outside of the US doing locum tenems is what's important, MD has a huge advantage over DO (read the pertinent threads before spoutin' on this, please).
3) if stigma matters at all to you, AMG MD obviously is preferable, with IMG MD (or equivalent) and DO each having different types of stigmas, in different parts of the world.
In other words, don't presume that all others care about is what knowledge they come out with.
-pitman
You're certainly not very open-minded if you believe one is "superior" to another.
-pitman
the innate problem isn't difference in training but difference in character. I know MD's and DO's both (sorry dont know any nonAMG's) that SUCK and that I would not let touch me with a ten foot pole. As for my comment regarding DO superiority... it is a joke to mock the BS that has been proffered for over a hundred years. there was a time when DO meant ...not as good.., BUT that time has come and gone past. I feel a complete physician is not one trained in a certain place but rather one trained in a non certain place... IE American specialist v. World Class Physician who happens to specialize in something. If more people had a sense of belonging and since of esteem this argument would have long ago died. The fact is that it DOES NOT matter where you grad from just that you do and that you do with it what was intended.
To all the people caught up in a firestorm of better v. best... GET A LIFE...
to those who let medicine choose them for their compassion and persistence... GO BROTHERS and SISTERS!
God Bless
DrDad
To all the people caught up in a firestorm of better v. best... GET A LIFE...
to those who let medicine choose them for their compassion and persistence... GO BROTHERS and SISTERS!
God Bless
DrDad
What do you people believe in then?
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What makes a good doctor isn't the letters behind his/her name. It's a combination of compassion, communication, confidence, intellect and the ability to integrate all sorts of experiences, mindsets and therapies into their own practice. Some people like US grads may have the opportunity to learn more advanced technology than those who graduate elsewhere. That doesn't make them better doctors. Likewise, a DO or IMG could be better at making connections and diagnosing from symptoms (instead of tests) than a US grad. That doesn't make them necessarily better either.
Your level of competency depends more on you as a person than on where you graduated from and what letters you've earned. Like undergrad, med school and medical education is what you make of it.
Your level of competency depends more on you as a person than on where you graduated from and what letters you've earned. Like undergrad, med school and medical education is what you make of it.
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Can someone fill me in on all this 'advanced technology' that the US has that noone else does? It sounds like one of those myths that are repeated so often they become fact.
The only machine I know of that my hospital does not have is a PET [scanner?]... as fascinating as it is for PhD thesis material... how much relevance does it actually have to patient care.
Just to clarify, PET scanners are currently being used experimentally as a diagnostic tool and the results have been amazing, especially for early diagnosis of particular types of brain tumors. This cutting-edge technology along with other functional imaging techniques is no longer just for data collection for a thesis as was suggested. Quite the contrary, it is now saving lives that would not have previously been saved by allowing earlier detection of these pathologies. Although they are not in wide use now, you can expect PET scanners to be popping up in top hospitals everwhere for clinical use.
Part of the tech thang I believe is not really a compliment -- US students, and students from schools that exist for the most part to train Americans, are taught to rely more on tech, e.g., on EKGs, EEGs, MRI, CAT, and so on.
But most the advantages ppl talk about are when you need/want some cutting edge treatment -- minimally invasive and/or precision-guided surgery, transplants, new cancer treatments, etc. The US does innovate med tech more than any other country, and typically 1, 5, or 10 years later, other Western countries will follow suit, if/when their (typically more socialized) services can afford it.
-pitman
it is unfortunate that more people in the world dont have more open minds than what is represented here more oft than not...
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Hey y'all. It is very alarming to see that so many of the respondents here are so 'uneducated'. How did you get into medicine? In addition to the MCAT, a Wechsler Intelligence Scale is needed as too many people are getting into medicine based on GPA and Extracurriculars (one can be 'dumb' and copy assignments or just put in the 'hardwork' and get good grades and one can have a 'friend' or 'relative' sign off on a Recommendation Letter, etc.). I am not applying this generalization to all but some. Back to the crux of my post, the MD designation is an UNDERGRADUATE designation, it is TECHNICALLY not a real doctoral designation for it lacks the research and written dissertation of a PhD. The same logic is applied to the JD vs. LLB.-both are undergraduate law degrees. To the uninformed, the LLM (Master of Laws) would seem inferiorn to the JD when in fact it is superior. The uninformed may also erroneously assume the JD is equivocal to an LLD. The LLD is usually an honorary designation (Doctor of Letters). Anyway, back to the MD vs MBBS issue. I am guilty of having sided with the MD machismo in that the MBBS is a 'foreign/inferior' designation, however I admit that was my mistake. I was ignorantly reacting towards a foreign trained immigrant doctor, fearing I would get substandard care-however the doctor was fantastic and actually 'knew' how to hold a patient centred/lead consult without letting the patient (me) hijack and maintain 'control'. The experience occurred when I was in Grade 11, and since then I shed the 'MD only' goggles I wore during highschool. The MD and MBBS are equivalent degrees in that they are both UNDERGRADUATE by DESIGNATION (even if it says 'doctor' in the name 'MD'). Read the US medical school calenders and they specifically and deliberately state that the MD program is an UNDERGRADUATE program. As far as 4 vs. 6 years, I hate to say it-I am jealous of the 6 year programs since they learn more medicine than we do in 4 years. There is no 'medical/scientific' value in undergrad work in its applicability towards a medical degree-how does a BA in Greek Literature make you scientifically 'prepped' for medicine? It doesnt. If you are worried about medical terms then you really are of too low of an intellect to be in medicine in the first place. How does a BA in political science help out in medicine? Same story. How does a BSc in Biochemistry help out in medicine? Not much. It turns out via discussion with various Med I coordinators and assessment teams that non-science students do better in the Basic Sciences overall despite a shaky/poor showing in the beginning. The field of medicine comprises not only Basic and Clinical Sciences, but Ethics, Public Health and other aspects. So there really is no 'set in stone' prototype of a medical student. Schools just want the pre-reqs done and that is it. So an MBBS student has just waded through the superflous education and 'stepped up' after his/her first year of medicine in a 6 year program and the rest is devoted to medicine itself, whereas in MD programs the medical education begins later and end sooner. Also I have noticed that countries like Australia and some in the UK have 4 years post graduate entry programs for an MBBS. There is still a big issue in Australia about the 4 year post-grad MBBS-people 'fear' that it is not enough time to produce competent physicians and surgeons-however the feedback from hospitals and institutions doesnt correlate. The end result/advantage of a 4 year program, be it MD or MBBS is that the graduate is more mature/well rounded as compared to a 'traditional' 6 year MBBS. I was thinking of going overseas for postgraduate training but it takes on average 3-4 years longer to become a specialist in Australia/UK than it does in US/Canada-so it is easy to figure out that idea is off the board. Does it make them better specialists? Perhaps?Perhaps not since time spent is experienced gained and you can gain it either under supervision or in your own practice. The point is moot. Furthermore I have learned that to get into Australia as an American trained MD is just as hard as if one were trained in Somalia. The bloody Aussies get paid more than Americans after graduation, staring salary is $50,000 AUD and overtime on top of a 40 hour work week, and from discussions with Australians I have heard they usually take home from $55,000 to 80,000 a year, factor in their ower cost of living etc, they are making more in all aspects.
I hope this clarifies and hopefully doesnt complicate the MD/MBBS issue.
I know over the years that I have learned alot more by listening and thinking before I say something that I dont know much about, or at the least I go to a credible source and get the info first hand.
Cheers.
I hope this clarifies and hopefully doesnt complicate the MD/MBBS issue.
I know over the years that I have learned alot more by listening and thinking before I say something that I dont know much about, or at the least I go to a credible source and get the info first hand.
Cheers.
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Why oh why did you feel it necessary to bump this thread? While in general I would agree with what you vociferously typed...I'd suggest you not be so vituperative. Everyone is trying to learn here, and statements said because of ignorance (some times innocent) should not be automatically attacked. Not a great beginning post, no need for something like this.
As a side comment that someone has probably said before, other places in the world have a higher standard of secondary (high school) education, therefore removing the need to gain an undergraduate degree before pursuing medicine. By the end of secondary school, those geared towards medicine would already have taken and been tested in say...some basic ochem. Some may argue for the maturity aspect, but I feel it's a moot point.
As a side comment that someone has probably said before, other places in the world have a higher standard of secondary (high school) education, therefore removing the need to gain an undergraduate degree before pursuing medicine. By the end of secondary school, those geared towards medicine would already have taken and been tested in say...some basic ochem. Some may argue for the maturity aspect, but I feel it's a moot point.
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I dont think I have offended anyone. Each to his own I guess. If I have been perceived as being rude, crude, and using harsh censure then I say sorry if I hurt your feelings, otherwise I stand by my points.
Have a good one y'all.
Have a good one y'all.
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A student can enter a PhD program either with an undergraduate credential or a Master's. The brighter ones are usually admitted straight after a BA/BSc, whereas the others do an MA/MSc before being accepted into a doctoral (PhD) program.
I cannot believe people dont know these things.......strange........just as bad as the ignorance of an MD/MBBS and the fact that some cannot comprehend that an MD is an undergraduate degree.
I cannot believe people dont know these things.......strange........just as bad as the ignorance of an MD/MBBS and the fact that some cannot comprehend that an MD is an undergraduate degree.
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I found your post very inflammatory,prejudiced and to say the least racist.I am an IMG from India and for your information MBBS is a 6 year program in India including one year of internship,which would be similar to transitional year.And a MD degree is acquired after 3 years of residency and includes a thesis/dissertation.You do not get an MD degree after 2 years ,like you have mentioned.That would get you a "diploma".Example😀 Ch,DGO,DLO,Do,etc.
As for your comment that "Most IMG's don't bother to get an MD",I have to say you are extremely misinformed .A very large number of IMG's from India already have completed residencies before coming to the US plus they may even have worked a couple of years after that.
As for why would the IMG's come to the US?>>>>>>>>>>>Well,for the most part it is for the $$$ and the lifestyle.And let me also point out to you that we score some of the highest percentiles in the USMLE,so the comment about the inferiority of our training is highly debatable!!
As for your comment that "Most IMG's don't bother to get an MD",I have to say you are extremely misinformed .A very large number of IMG's from India already have completed residencies before coming to the US plus they may even have worked a couple of years after that.
As for why would the IMG's come to the US?>>>>>>>>>>>Well,for the most part it is for the $$$ and the lifestyle.And let me also point out to you that we score some of the highest percentiles in the USMLE,so the comment about the inferiority of our training is highly debatable!!
Let me point out that the average IMG takes over a year to study for Step 1 and have done clinicals and possibly residency before. Most are full fledged doctors by the time they take the test. Most US med students have little to no clinical experience and have 4 weeks to prepare after their SECOND year of medical school.
So stop bragging about "we score some of the highest percentiles in the USMLE." Your trying to compare an IMG who is already a doctor to a second year medical student.
If it weren't for Kaplan and all their test materials, I highly doubt most IMGs could pass the USMLE exams. Kaplan materials are so close to the real USMLE that almost anyone with some kind of brain can study for a year at their center and pass the USMLEs.
MD as an undergraduate degree? Give me a break. 99% of US grads had to finished a 4 year undergraduate program before entering medical school. <1% are able to finished 3 years of undergrad and get accepted. Ever see the term PGY-1, PGY-2, PGY-3 when referring to medical residents? Its stands for POST GRADUATE YEAR. That means they are POST their graduate education (medical school).
So stop bragging about "we score some of the highest percentiles in the USMLE." Your trying to compare an IMG who is already a doctor to a second year medical student.
If it weren't for Kaplan and all their test materials, I highly doubt most IMGs could pass the USMLE exams. Kaplan materials are so close to the real USMLE that almost anyone with some kind of brain can study for a year at their center and pass the USMLEs.
MD as an undergraduate degree? Give me a break. 99% of US grads had to finished a 4 year undergraduate program before entering medical school. <1% are able to finished 3 years of undergrad and get accepted. Ever see the term PGY-1, PGY-2, PGY-3 when referring to medical residents? Its stands for POST GRADUATE YEAR. That means they are POST their graduate education (medical school).
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bobby6 said:
Technically, the medical degree in the US is considered an UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE. Residency is considered GRADUATE MEDICAL EDUCATION. The PGY designation does not refer to being "post GRADUATE SCHOOL" but rather "post (medical school) GRADUATION". Subtle but real difference.
Perhaps its all semantics, but this is a well-worn topic and the AAMC and RRC will agree with my definitions above.
1. An MD is definitely not a graduate degree, but I also feel the title of undergraduate degree, although correct, is misleading. A more appropriate one that avoids the confusion is the title of a professional degree, which is the term you will be see used to refer to the degree most often. Law school (A JD program) would be another example of a professional degree program. Professional degree programs are distinct from the typical undergraduate program (eg. Biology or English) in that they train students to enter a specific profession that carries with it a title, such as Doctor for a MD and Counsler for a JD, as well as licensure resulting in special privilages and obligations (eg. the ability to prescribe drugs, perform surgery, etc.).
2. There seems to be the misconception on this thread that an MD is inferior to a PhD or other graduate degree program. This is simply false. They are diferent types of programs for different purposes and neither is inferior to the other. However, this being said it is interesting that it is easier to receive funding for research if you have an MD instead of a PhD (a sort of ironic fact, because most MDs have substantially less research training than PhDs).
A question: I was wondering why people in other countries that have received there Bachelor's of Medicie and then received a Medical Doctorate and still choose to go on and pursue a PhD. Isn't this type of training redundant? I thought a Medical Doctorate was a graduate degree in all countries outside the US and would thus include sufficent training to begin a research career. Why would additional training be wanted on top of this in the form of a PhD?
2. There seems to be the misconception on this thread that an MD is inferior to a PhD or other graduate degree program. This is simply false. They are diferent types of programs for different purposes and neither is inferior to the other. However, this being said it is interesting that it is easier to receive funding for research if you have an MD instead of a PhD (a sort of ironic fact, because most MDs have substantially less research training than PhDs).
A question: I was wondering why people in other countries that have received there Bachelor's of Medicie and then received a Medical Doctorate and still choose to go on and pursue a PhD. Isn't this type of training redundant? I thought a Medical Doctorate was a graduate degree in all countries outside the US and would thus include sufficent training to begin a research career. Why would additional training be wanted on top of this in the form of a PhD?
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No way!! Kaplan is too expensive for most Indian's to subscribe to!!There is a very small percentage of them who take up that course.Infact Kaplan has been available in India only for the last 3 years.And my dear,NO ONE studies for one year to take step 1.That is so ridiculous.Most people finish all the steps in 1 year.Took me 4 months for step 1 and 3 months for step 2.And I never took Kaplan.
So,No one takes the Kaplan course in US??!! 🙄
So,No one takes the Kaplan course in US??!! 🙄
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bobby6 said:
Actually, the way it works is that if you have say a UK/Ireland MB/BCh (+ BAO Batchelor of Obstetrics in Ireland), as soon as you sit and pass the USMLE and get ECFMG certified, you can put MD after your name in the US.
However, this is not the research MD seen after many consultants names in Ireland and UK. Good luck trying to convince an MD or PHD in London that your ECFMG or USMLE "MD" is an actual MD. So basically, a US med student who graduates and does the exams and all is called MD in the US. An IMG who graduates from there own med school in the world and does the exams and all (ECFMG) is also called an MD in the US. ECMFG/USMLE makes any internationally recognised degree from a med school (there is a large book) an MD in the US, it's to simply equate all of the worldwide degrees.
But your MD having just graduated from med school is most definitely *not* the MD completed after 3 years of research *following* graduation from med school. You could try it, but I'm sure in the research arena you'd look like a fool!
To boylemk4,
So you're telling me that Indian med grads aren't using Kaplan materials? Thats a bunch of crap. There is so much bootleg Kaplan materials going around that it isn't even funny. Kaplan Qbank and materials can be easily acquired through alternatives means. I know of several friends of mind who left the US after highschool to attend medical school in India and who are currently studying for Step 1. They have all the Kaplan books either cheaply copied or on cd with all the Qbank questions in either html or word format.
So you're telling me that Indian med grads aren't using Kaplan materials? Thats a bunch of crap. There is so much bootleg Kaplan materials going around that it isn't even funny. Kaplan Qbank and materials can be easily acquired through alternatives means. I know of several friends of mind who left the US after highschool to attend medical school in India and who are currently studying for Step 1. They have all the Kaplan books either cheaply copied or on cd with all the Qbank questions in either html or word format.
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boylemk4 said:
Well said. I too completed all 3 steps in 1 year. This is in addition to working as research assistant and taking care of my family. I found it funny to see people in USA have couching classes (Kaplan) in addition to what is being taught (?) in their med schools. There is no such concept of having couching classes in India for P.G.(residency) exams. We rely on our brain not on anything else.
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Will You all just give this a rest.We are all competing through bonafide means here.There must be some reason why the ECFMG was set up.And I am sure they are not an illegal organisation!! 😀 
No doubt such CD's are available but doing a bunch of questions will not get one through USMLE.One has to read all the text ,BRS series ,etc to crack these exams.
I wonder why all those NRI kids are resorting to Bootlegged CD's??I am sure they have the moolah to join the Kaplan.
And anyway this thread was about competency of the FMG's.So let's just leave it to ECFM 😎 G and concentrate on the interviews and the match.
No doubt such CD's are available but doing a bunch of questions will not get one through USMLE.One has to read all the text ,BRS series ,etc to crack these exams.
I wonder why all those NRI kids are resorting to Bootlegged CD's??I am sure they have the moolah to join the Kaplan.
And anyway this thread was about competency of the FMG's.So let's just leave it to ECFM 😎 G and concentrate on the interviews and the match.
M
Miklos
ALTorGT said:
Not everywhere.
M.D. is the abbreviation for the latin "Medicinae Doctor"
Plenty of countries outside the British sphere award M.D's as the initial degree in medicine. Check out imed.ecfmg.org for particular countries.
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Buddies of mine that attend(ed) US schools had no qualms admitting retired shelf questions, kaplan, and the likes are used in addition to their USMLE specific curriculum. Review courses/materials are highly valued by USMS especially those seeking prestigious surgical sub-specialties.
If an IMG has already graduated and will sit for USMLE 1, he/she will have been far removed from basic science and a focused review course is logical.
How well would an AMG after graduation do on USMLE 1?? Not so well and quite possibly not even passing. we forget that stuff fairly quickly.
If an AMG for some reason heeded a license in the UK, he/she would logically use review materials geared towards that exam/system.
Test taking ability varies among individuals. I see nothing wrong with being proud of scoring a high percentile, AMG's and IMG's alike. Although most of the AMG's I have known are quite decent human beings, there exists a percentage that believe they can walk on water and re-write the 10 commandments. Although some of these pseudo-Gods are gifted academically, some lack social grace, humility, and may be hiding behind "scholarly achievements" and the resentment towards IMG's and even fellow AMG's may actually be projection of innate inferior feelings.
A friend of mine studied on the run while he ws a very busy EM 3 year resident in Thailand. Many years removed from basic science. At morning rounds after he'd finished presenting the nights cases, the final slide was his USMLE result letter;;; 99 percentile. I joined the residents in a standing ovation. Too bad English is not his native tongueas perhaps he could have scored higher LOL.
IQ is not related to geography, race, religion. Was it Thomas Edison that said genius is 90 percent perspiration and 10 percent intelligence, or something to that effect.
Come on AMG's, keep it pure, US medical school degrees only and stop buying all those inferior foreign imports; Ferrari, Porsche, Jaguar, MB, BMW, etc.
I wishing every one
👍Great success!👍
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- Pre-Medical
I would like to state:
As an almost completely unbiased person in this conflict (I am Canadian, currently doing a Pre-Medical Undergrad in the United states and planning on going to the Czech Republic for an MBBS) It is my experience that the North American procedure for becoming a licensed physician is the system that is faulty, not that of other countries. Keep in mind I am from Canada, I am currently studying in the United States Pre-Medical Undergraduate Program, with that said I am not bias against any of the Countries mentioned. I have come to find that the bachelors degree in which one must obtain before entering into the field of medicine is not necessary if the student already presents the ability to be a student of medicine. If your argument is that the MBBS does not cover the same material that the North American MD does, then Im not in a position to refute you. However, the bachelors degree such as the Pre-med program I am currently in does not cover anything medically relevant. Bachelor Programs in North America require the taking of general courses (basically taking advanced high school courses). Granted some may be difficult, others not so much. The premise still stands that if a person could skip these advanced general courses and proceed with the study of medicine; the same studies of those in North American medical schools, what is there to argue? If the curriculum is the same then the issue lies not in the studying but the acquired time. I have found that most North American medical students are merely upset with the idea that they had to go through four additional years of schooling, not with the degree obtained in a different country. This also falls into the category of North Americans believing everything they (or we seeing as Im Canadian) do is the correct way of doing so. I believe that this is the direct opposite of the proper way. In countries which provide the direct entry into medical studies it allows bright minds to study medicine for a long period of time. Rather then four years general and 4 years medical. The student would have four years medical with an assumed four years of additional medical studying following.
It is my position that this argument stems from egos and misplaced hate, rather then facts. Before anyone tries to tell me that I dont know anything or that I am wrong. Remember my background on the issue. If I am factually wrong I will stand corrected.
As a side note: I know how hard it is to discuss issues with Americans and sometimes Canadians as well; as North America has developed an overwhelming sense of self accomplishment. Please keep in mind that there are those of us who understand the world a little better then the others and we are sorry for their ignorance.
As an almost completely unbiased person in this conflict (I am Canadian, currently doing a Pre-Medical Undergrad in the United states and planning on going to the Czech Republic for an MBBS) It is my experience that the North American procedure for becoming a licensed physician is the system that is faulty, not that of other countries. Keep in mind I am from Canada, I am currently studying in the United States Pre-Medical Undergraduate Program, with that said I am not bias against any of the Countries mentioned. I have come to find that the bachelors degree in which one must obtain before entering into the field of medicine is not necessary if the student already presents the ability to be a student of medicine. If your argument is that the MBBS does not cover the same material that the North American MD does, then Im not in a position to refute you. However, the bachelors degree such as the Pre-med program I am currently in does not cover anything medically relevant. Bachelor Programs in North America require the taking of general courses (basically taking advanced high school courses). Granted some may be difficult, others not so much. The premise still stands that if a person could skip these advanced general courses and proceed with the study of medicine; the same studies of those in North American medical schools, what is there to argue? If the curriculum is the same then the issue lies not in the studying but the acquired time. I have found that most North American medical students are merely upset with the idea that they had to go through four additional years of schooling, not with the degree obtained in a different country. This also falls into the category of North Americans believing everything they (or we seeing as Im Canadian) do is the correct way of doing so. I believe that this is the direct opposite of the proper way. In countries which provide the direct entry into medical studies it allows bright minds to study medicine for a long period of time. Rather then four years general and 4 years medical. The student would have four years medical with an assumed four years of additional medical studying following.
It is my position that this argument stems from egos and misplaced hate, rather then facts. Before anyone tries to tell me that I dont know anything or that I am wrong. Remember my background on the issue. If I am factually wrong I will stand corrected.
As a side note: I know how hard it is to discuss issues with Americans and sometimes Canadians as well; as North America has developed an overwhelming sense of self accomplishment. Please keep in mind that there are those of us who understand the world a little better then the others and we are sorry for their ignorance.
