Med Adcoms: demystified!

[DrYo12]

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Alright, don't say DrYo never gave you nuthin'...

People will tell you all kinds of crap about what the adcoms are looking for--all from the applicant and the 'I've heard X, Y or Z' perspective. I am most assuredly telling you that the bottom line is that they're looking for people willing to work hard.

Sure, they want to make sure that you have some kind of idea of what you're going into--shadow physicians, work in clinics, etc, etc.

Yes, be sure to volunteer your time and if you say you want to help people, help people--volunteering with health organizations, children's organizations, services for poor people, etc., etc.

They also most definitely want to make sure that you embody those qualities that one would seek in a physician--caring, compassionate, smart, well-rounded, blah, blah, blah.

...HOWEVER...

I'm sure you've heard of 4.0 and 45 MCAT folks not being accepted or only having one acceptance. Or you've heard of people with less than 3.0s having multiple acceptances and you ask yourself, 'WTF.'

The one thing that you can be sure ties all accepted applicants to medical school together is that they've proven they can work hard.

Some people had to split their time between families and work and other non-premed stuff, and didn't have the best grades but proved that they wanted this bad enough they were willing to work hard.

Others didn't have distractions and received some wonderful financial and emotional support from their families, worked hard to achieve good grades and participated in some outstanding extracurriculars and demonstrated another brand of desire and willingness to work hard.

Still others went off, had another career, came back and worked hard to complete the prereqs despite all the life events happening around them and demonstrated a committment and willingness to work hard to make a dream a reality.

In all those cases, they proved to an admissions committee that they were willing to work hard and do what they could to make their future happen. When you get into medical school, substituting intellect for hard work isn't going to get you very far. You may be smarter than the guy or gal sitting next to you, but if they know how to work hard and apply themselves in a way you don't, being smarter won't mean a thing because they will outperform you every day with the sheer volume of work that they are willing to do that you may or may not be prepared to put into your studies. Adcoms want to make sure that you know how to work hard before you get into medical school so that once you get there, you can apply what you know. Medical school isn't challenging because its too difficult--its hard because they're hitting you with a firehose of information and asking you to take a drink.

 

[91Bravo]

Please read, re-read and absorb the above posting! I have never read something that was more true than this. If GPAs and MCAT scores were all that mattered, medical schools would be full of dull, self-absorbed gunners.

Again, you hit the nail on the head. 👍

 

[RayhanS1282]

👍
Great post.

 

[kdwuma]

preach on brother/sister, ..preach on 👍

 

[FrkyBgStok]

well i hope the adcoms will look at the fact that i work at least 40 hours per week, have a house, wife, kids (will have 2 by the time med school starts), and can still pull a 3.7 GPA and do shadowing so i can work hard!

 

[Hindiana_Jones]

That is good news for people like me, who have done poorly and are trying to make themselves a competive candidate. I was just wondering where you got this insight? From person experience, from observing posting on SDN, or just your own conclusion?

 

[kdwuma]

well i hope the adcoms will look at the fact that i work at least 40 hours per week, have a house, wife, kids (will have 2 by the time med school starts), and can still pull a 3.7 GPA and do shadowing so i can work hard!

yep! that should count, I keep telling people that short of scores below a 27 and gpa below approximately 3.3 the numbers do not mean as much in most schools . It's all about your story and how well you tell it.

 

[stupibname]

DrYo12.... so um what are u trying to say... that those of u who have not undergone "hardships" don't deserve to go to med school. I think is great that some people are able to fight against adversity and suceed but on the other hand its not my fault that my parents provided my with love and financial support.... hmmm I can't say I can agree with that..... 😕

 

[Blair Book]

DrYo12.... so um what are u trying to say... that those of u who have not undergone "hardships" don't deserve to go to med school. I think is great that some people are able to fight against adversity and suceed but on the other hand its not my fault that my parents provided my with love and financial support.... hmmm I can't say I can agree with that..... 😕

I don't think that was the point at all. He was saying that people with lower averages, but a strong work ethic can still do it. I think his post was not attacking those who have not gone through "hardships". Good for you that you have support, and no doubt you will do well. Some of us are in the other boat, and that was post was a huge boost to my confidence.

Thanks Doc! 🙂

 

[medhacker]

DrYo12.... so um what are u trying to say... that those of u who have not undergone "hardships" don't deserve to go to med school. I think is great that some people are able to fight against adversity and suceed but on the other hand its not my fault that my parents provided my with love and financial support.... hmmm I can't say I can agree with that..... 😕

Hey stupib!

The point is not that you do not have a chance, but what the OP described is what matters most. When you get to medical school you will see the truth to this hard worker admissions hypothesis.

 

[stupibname]

I don't think that was the point at all. He was saying that people with lower averages, but a strong work ethic can still do it. I think his post was not attacking those who have not gone through "hardships". Good for you that you have support, and no doubt you will do well. Some of us are in the other boat, and that was post was a huge boost to my confidence.

Thanks Doc! 🙂

Ahhhh... my bad.... yeah i guess it must be rough what some of u had to go through to get where u are now.... 😳 .....

 

[Blair Book]

Ahhhh... my bad.... yeah i guess it must be rough what some of u had to go through to get where u are now.... 😳 .....

No sweat at all! 🙂

 

[SeventhSon]

I disagree strongly with two axioms that you present. Firstly, unless you're a prodigy, there's no way you can get close to the 4.0/45 that you're talking about. 99% of the people who have these numbers work their asses off. I have good stats and I can't tell you how many hours I have put in through finals week flus, personal issues, canceled vegas trips, saturdays nights sitting at home. There are people without incredible stats who also word hard. But as I said, 99% of the time, "working hard" and having incredible stats is inclusive.

Secondly your main point: I don't think adcoms are looking for people who work hard. I think adcoms are looking for people who genuinely love medicine. You can work hard, have 4.0/45, and apply to medical school without having any clue what you're getting yourself into. It's just the "next step" to you. I've observed that genuine intellectual interest always puts one in the best situation to succeed. Adcoms look for people who are not only dedicated, but dedicated to medicine. And if you are, it will show in the interview.

 

[drguy22]

perfect post..... 👍

 

[Turkeyman]

I like you, DrYo12.

...can I have a cup of STFU? 😀

 

[MoosePilot]

I disagree strongly with two axioms that you present. Firstly, unless you're a prodigy, there's no way you can get close to the 4.0/45 that you're talking about. 99% of the people who have these numbers work their asses off. I have good stats and I can't tell you how many hours I have put in through finals week flus, personal issues, canceled vegas trips, saturdays nights sitting at home. There are people without incredible stats who also word hard. But as I said, 99% of the time, "working hard" and having incredible stats is inclusive.

Secondly your main point: I don't think adcoms are looking for people who work hard. I think adcoms are looking for people who genuinely love medicine. You can work hard, have 4.0/45, and apply to medical school without having any clue what you're getting yourself into. It's just the "next step" to you. I've observed that genuine intellectual interest always puts one in the best situation to succeed. Adcoms look for people who are not only dedicated, but dedicated to medicine. And if you are, it will show in the interview.

No, the only way you're going to show you're dedicated to medicine is by doing something in medicine. Extensive volunteering, shadowing, research, clinical experience as another type of health care provider... ADCOMs want to be *shown* your dedication, not told about it. If all you can do is tell them how dedicated you are without showing it, you're either not really dedicated, or don't have the time management skills to do that and undergrad. If you show that dedication, you'll do it through... HARD WORK.

Awesome post! 😍

 

[SeventhSon]

No, the only way you're going to show you're dedicated to medicine is by doing something in medicine.

The OP's post sounded very romantic and all, but I feel you and he miss my point. AdComs can tell in interviews who knows what they're getting themselves into. This is no secret. Why do you think people are freaking out asking for book recommendations about medical ethics and the structure of our healthcare system? Just because you have a stellar work ethic doesn't mean that your talents would best be useful in medicine.

One of my cousins is a really smart girl, super-driven. All I ever hear about from her is how much she hates medicine and made the wrong career choice. I hope she changes her mind because I know from experience that if you do a job that you absolutely can't stand you're going to break down sooner or later. Med Schools want to make sure people know what they're getting themselves into

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

Finally!!! A post that represents the true holistic nature of adcoms... DrYo u da woman!!!!!

 

[dilated]

I don't get it. Are you saying that you think adcoms go over applications and ask themselves whether the person worked really hard as a method of determining if they get in? Because that doesn't really make sense. For one example of many, there is no admissions benefit to choosing a major such as engineering that requires much more hard work than a major such as sociology.

Of course hard work is important in getting in because adcoms look for achievements that come as the result of hard work. But that does not mean that hard work, in lieu of those achievements, is going to get you anywhere.

 

[g3pro]

I've heard about 4.0/45's not getting acceptances, but it's not due to not working. It's due to defective personalities.

Honestly, when was the last time you heard of a ****** getting accepted into medical school with a 2.0/22 who "works really really hard!"? Please, your entire comment is a load of illogical politcally-correct "feel-good", "hope for the best" garbage. You either have what it takes to be a physician, or you don't. It's that simple. People who work hard in undergrad but still have low GPAs or low MCATs simply will not be accepted. However, as mentioned in a previous topic about 40+ applications, those are the people who don't have it and will try to play chance anyways.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I don't get it. Are you saying that you think adcoms go over applications and ask themselves whether the person worked really hard as a method of determining if they get in? Because that doesn't really make sense.QUOTE]

Ummmm... why not? Grades, MCAT scores, and beautiful letters of rec. only go so far (even though as mentioned by someone else, they DO indeed correlate to amount of effort put forth). From every doctor or med school student I've spoken too, the common denominator for their success was hard work. Makes perfect sense to me. Hard work = commitment = devotion to one's practice.

 

[g3pro]

Ummmm... why not? Grades, MCAT scores, and beautiful letters of rec. only go so far (even though as mentioned by someone else, they DO indeed correlate to amount of effort put forth). From every doctor or med school student I've spoken too, the common denominator for their success was hard work. Makes perfect sense to me. Hard work = commitment = devotion to one's practice.

It's a good thing that MCAT and GPA are great indicators of hard work!!

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I've heard about 4.0/45's not getting acceptances, but it's not due to not working. It's due to defective personalities.

Honestly, when was the last time you heard of a ****** getting accepted into medical school with a 2.0/22 who "works really really hard!"?

Funny you say that... take a loosky at the 2005-2006 MSAR statistics for GPA/MCAT scores of accepted applicants. You're right, never heard about it, sure did read it though 😛

 

[dilated]

Ummmm... why not? Grades, MCAT scores, and beautiful letters of rec. only go so far (even though as mentioned by someone else, they DO indeed correlate to amount of effort put forth). From every doctor or med school student I've spoken too, the common denominator for their success was hard work. Makes perfect sense to me. Hard work = commitment = devotion to one's practice.

You didn't address the part of my post about how things that would objectively indicate a real adcom preference for hard work (as opposed to achievement), such as choice of major or courseload, are not significant factors in admission.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

You didn't address the part of my post about how things that would objectively indicate a real adcom preference for hard work (as opposed to achievement), such as choice of major or courseload, are not significant factors in admission.

Yeah, engineering is a hard ass major (I tried my hand at it for a while... shudders ) But so is the plethora of the other science majors out there (Physics, Chem, Bio, Biochem) which the majority of med school applicants have. What you do in your downtime, and how you handle yourself away from the academic scene only confirms or backs up your grades and courseload. That is why (as DrYo so elegantly put it) HARD WORK really boils down to the total applicant and not just numbers (or choice of major). I think we're on the same page though, getting tied up in the specifics is where we diverge 🙂

 

[Sooz]

I've heard about 4.0/45's not getting acceptances, but it's not due to not working. It's due to defective personalities.

Honestly, when was the last time you heard of a ****** getting accepted into medical school with a 2.0/22 who "works really really hard!"? Please, your entire comment is a load of illogical politcally-correct "feel-good", "hope for the best" garbage. You either have what it takes to be a physician, or you don't. It's that simple. People who work hard in undergrad but still have low GPAs or low MCATs simply will not be accepted. However, as mentioned in a previous topic about 40+ applications, those are the people who don't have it and will try to play chance anyways.

Does it make you feel like a "big" person to refer to people with a 2.0/22 as a "******"?

 

[g3pro]

Does it make you feel like a "big" person to refer to people with a 2.0/22 as a "******"?

No. But you're right, I shouldn't have used that term. I should have said "mentally challenged" to be more politically correct. 👍

 

[Sooz]

No. But you're right, I shouldn't have used that term. I should have said "mentally challenged" to be more politically correct. 👍

I hate to nit-pick, but stuff like that really bothers me. You could have just used "person" instead.

This sounds much nicer "When is the last time you've heard of a person getting accepted into medical school with a 2.0/22". I think it gives your argument more credit also, because it doesn't use any demeaning labels. Anyway, thanks for the 👍 instead of a nasty reply 🙂 I'm sure it would have been just as easy to ignore my post or just make a rude reply, but you took a higher road 😉

Thanks! 🙂

 

[dilated]

Yeah, engineering is a hard ass major (I tried my hand at it for a while... shudders ) But so is the plethora of the other science majors out there (Physics, Chem, Bio, Biochem) which the majority of med school applicants have. What you do in your downtime, and how you handle yourself away from the academic scene only confirms or backs up your grades and courseload. That is why (as DrYo so elegantly put it) HARD WORK really boils down to the total applicant and not just numbers (or choice of major). I think we're on the same page though, getting tied up in the specifics is where we diverge 🙂

Well, basically what I'm saying is that I think it's bad advice to tell people that adcoms are looking primarily to see hard work, because it implies that even if your achievements aren't that great, if you can show you worked hard you'll be OK, which doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can tell. There are always a few anecdotes to the contrary, but adcoms seem to be pretty merciless on people who haven't met their objective standards of achievement, even if it's due to things like poor grades from a long time ago.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

Well, basically what I'm saying is that I think it's bad advice to tell people that adcoms are looking primarily to see hard work, because it implies that even if your achievements aren't that great, if you can show you worked hard you'll be OK, which doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can tell. There are always a few anecdotes to the contrary, but adcoms seem to be pretty merciless on people who haven't met their objective standards of achievement, even if it's due to things like poor grades from a long time ago.

Yeah, we can make generalities all day. I think the main point to take from DrYo's post is that you shouldn't lose all hope just because you may have a weaker academic base than the next person. To me, adcoms seem to be merciless on people who haven't met a minimum level of achievement AND who have no other reedeming qualities to justify their shortfalls. As you said, there are exceptions, but I still think DrYo's post was a great piece of advice. Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind after the rejection letters start rolling in (God forbid!!!), but until then, the rest is up to faith and prayer.

 

[it.]

I hate to nit-pick, but stuff like that really bothers me. You could have just used "person" instead.

This sounds much nicer "When is the last time you've heard of a person getting accepted into medical school with a 2.0/22". I think it gives your argument more credit also, because it doesn't use any demeaning labels. Anyway, thanks for the 👍 instead of a nasty reply 🙂 I'm sure it would have been just as easy to ignore my post or just make a rude reply, but you took a higher road 😉

Thanks! 🙂

...umm...hehe...(should i tell him?)...(nah, i'll let it be)...nevermind....

 

[MoosePilot]

The OP's post sounded very romantic and all, but I feel you and he miss my point. AdComs can tell in interviews who knows what they're getting themselves into. This is no secret. Why do you think people are freaking out asking for book recommendations about medical ethics and the structure of our healthcare system? Just because you have a stellar work ethic doesn't mean that your talents would best be useful in medicine.

During my first interview, I felt their questions were much more in line with the OP's hypothesis than yours. I didn't read any books on medical ethics or the structure of our healthcare system (structure? hospitals, clinics, and private practitioners? wow, complicated structure), but one of my interviewers said he rated me higher than anyone else he'd interviewed (which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I can't interpret it as I wasn't prepared for the interview).

People are freaking out because they're neurotic premeds. They'd rather find the magic book that will let them say that one magical thing that will convince their interviewer that they're Mother Theresa and Gandhi rolled into one and instantaneously get them accepted.

It's a good thing that MCAT and GPA are great indicators of hard work!!

They can be great indicators, but for some people different numbers indicate different amounts of work. I was able to get a 31 on the MCAT by attending my college classes fairly regularly for not quite two years... the kind of work that resulted in around a 3.2 GPA. I'm a good tester. Did I show any hard work? No, I just showed that I'm a good enough test taker that an average score on the MCAT isn't difficult for me to get. Hard work shows in my 4 point improvement and my 7 years of active duty. I can see the difference in how my pre-med committee treated me (I don't think they could have rated me higher, either) and how my med school interviewers treated me. There definitely is more to it than just numbers, because brains can get you some pretty good numbers, but I think it takes more than that to do well in medical school.

I think most 4.0/40+ folks have shown hard work and the admissions rates show that. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think adcoms are looking for more than numbers and I think the OP has a good handle on the indefinable "something" they're looking for.

 

[kdwuma]

Yeah, we can make generalities all day. I think the main point to take from DrYo's post is that you shouldn't lose all hope just because you may have a weaker academic base than the next person. To me, adcoms seem to be merciless on people who haven't met a minimum level of achievement AND who have no other reedeming qualities to justify their shortfalls. As you said, there are exceptions, but I still think DrYo's post was a great piece of advice. Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind after the rejection letters start rolling in (God forbid!!!), but until then, the rest is up to faith and prayer.

Hey! Whatsupdoc are you applying this cycle, fellow TN resident here, if you are have you heard from UT_Memphis?

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

Hey! Whatsupdoc are you applying this cycle, fellow TN resident here, if you are have you heard from UT_Memphis?

Well, yesterday they said that they received my AMCAS. Pretty sure it'll be a week a so before I get the secondary. We'll see 😎

 

[kdwuma]

Well, yesterday they said that they received my AMCAS. Pretty sure it'll be a week a so before I get the secondary. We'll see 😎

I tink they are pretty slow, I sent them my secondary and stuff about 2 weeks ago and not even a complete notice, meanwhile louisville- KY which is out of state already extended an interview, Did you apply to vandy? they seem to be showing some love to TN residents, I don't have the greatest of numbers but got the interview invite early in the game, I am actually going on the 19th of sept, oooh I just realized that is monday! I guess I better start pressing the shirt.

 

[CoffeeFreak]

I got your axiom right here bud....your pulling a tech. here lawyer dude...IT IS IMPLIED THAT ONE HAS A LOVE FOR MEDICINE IF YOU WORK HARD TO GET INTO regarding the OP's statement. Why else would you work hard as a premed? I don't work my tail off because I love fire hydrants.

BTW your reasoning/ logic is flawed.

This is a gosh darn excellent post and I want to mail this dude $50

Where would we be without a troll?

I disagree strongly with two axioms that you present. Firstly, unless you're a prodigy, there's no way you can get close to the 4.0/45 that you're talking about. 99% of the people who have these numbers work their asses off. I have good stats and I can't tell you how many hours I have put in through finals week flus, personal issues, canceled vegas trips, saturdays nights sitting at home. There are people without incredible stats who also word hard. But as I said, 99% of the time, "working hard" and having incredible stats is inclusive.

Secondly your main point: I don't think adcoms are looking for people who work hard. I think adcoms are looking for people who genuinely love medicine. You can work hard, have 4.0/45, and apply to medical school without having any clue what you're getting yourself into. It's just the "next step" to you. I've observed that genuine intellectual interest always puts one in the best situation to succeed. Adcoms look for people who are not only dedicated, but dedicated to medicine. And if you are, it will show in the interview.

 

[CoffeeFreak]

OK so just add to the OP's idea....show you can work hard & HAVE A BUNCH OF DEVOTED SHADOWING, VOLUNTEER, EC STUFF. Now do you still disagree or is there some hidden factor that your not sharing? Is there another secret file? What else? Spill the beans dude. What else can you possibly do?

The OP's post sounded very romantic and all, but I feel you and he miss my point. AdComs can tell in interviews who knows what they're getting themselves into. This is no secret. Why do you think people are freaking out asking for book recommendations about medical ethics and the structure of our healthcare system? Just because you have a stellar work ethic doesn't mean that your talents would best be useful in medicine.

One of my cousins is a really smart girl, super-driven. All I ever hear about from her is how much she hates medicine and made the wrong career choice. I hope she changes her mind because I know from experience that if you do a job that you absolutely can't stand you're going to break down sooner or later. Med Schools want to make sure people know what they're getting themselves into

 

[Uncle Izzy]

FYI- The best indicator of future academic success is previous academic success. If you want to make your life easier when it comes time to apply, do well in undergrad and bust your ass on your MCAT. Work hard, pull the numbers and your life will be alot easier.

That's not to say that it isnt possible without solid numbers, it just makes it more difficult and you have to work your way in the door via other means...

 

[CoffeeFreak]

It's a good thing that MCAT and GPA are great indicators of hard work!!

Wow. We now have a dude who is using LOR for his posts.

 

[Hercules022]

It's funny that this post all started with someone just randomly saying "this is what med schools want." I actually heard the real key to getting in is wearing a sombrero to the interview

On a serious note, I agree with the earlier poster that this is just a "feel good" post. Hard work has hardly anything to do with success, results are what matter. If you have a good MCAT score and good grades and you claim to have worked hard for it, people believe you. But if you apply with a low score and low grades but claim to be a really diligent worker, you're just making a claim that isn't backed up by anything. You might say "But look I worked really hard at (fill in a job/volunteer experience here) but the question would still remain as to why the major things like your grades don't reflect that? The guy on the corner asking for $$ can claim to be a hard worker, but...

 

[tank you]

It's funny that this post all started with someone just randomly saying "this is what med schools want." I actually heard the real key to getting in is wearing a sombrero to the interview

On a serious note, I agree with the earlier poster that this is just a "feel good" post. Hard work has hardly anything to do with success, results are what matter. If you have a good MCAT score and good grades and you claim to have worked hard for it, people believe you. But if you apply with a low score and low grades but claim to be a really diligent worker, you're just making a claim that isn't backed up by anything. You might say "But look I worked really hard at (fill in a job/volunteer experience here) but the question would still remain as to why the major things like your grades don't reflect that? The guy on the corner asking for $$ can claim to be a hard worker, but...

yes, i agree. actually, i was going to criticize the op's comments sooner, but i saw that some people were agreeing with him, not really sure why..

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

On a serious note, I agree with the earlier poster that this is just a "feel good" post. Hard work has hardly anything to do with success, results are what matter.

Ummm... have you been growing up on the same earth that I have? I have yet to meet one soul who has not contributed their success to either hard work in the past, or ongoing hard work. Yeah results matter alright, Result of slack-off, bottom of the pool pre-med = rejection letter city.

If you have a good MCAT score and good grades and you claim to have worked hard for it, people believe you. But if you apply with a low score and low grades but claim to be a really diligent worker, you're just making a claim that isn't backed up by anything.

Wow, I wonder why AMCAS even bothers with a personal statement/ extracurricular/Underserved section. If adcoms thought like you my friend, woe unto those <3.0/25 who still got accepted (Read the MSAR if you don't believe). Emphasis on grades and MCAT will get you just as far as those 40/40 club members who thought med school was in the bag, a place called rejection city.

You might say "But look I worked really hard at (fill in a job/volunteer experience here) but the question would still remain as to why the major things like your grades don't reflect that?

OMG!!! Please tell me you noticed that you answered your own question within this question. Let's start with a flow diagram, hard work at a full time job ----> less time to spend on academics ----> bad test scores do to less time to study = lower gpa/MCAT. Hope this clarifies for ya 😉 Of course that's just one of millions of scenarios (kids, family sickness, military duties) that could explain poor academic performance in lieu of hard work, but thank God that adcoms are human enough to consider these possibilities.

The guy on the corner asking for $$ can claim to be a hard worker, but...

I've met a couple of crackheads in my life. They say the game is tough, heard pimpin wasn't easy either. But, if I may be so kind to interject, WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING!!!!! You're right, claims are just claims. Back to the importance of PS + work/activity section + underserved status. Next time you see a $2 ho on the corner claiming to be working hard, ask her to fill out the corresponding sections of AMCAS and since you seem to be such the authority on judging hard work, see if her claim matches up to her responses... gracious, I'm being mean, forgive me 😍

Again people, I HATE NEGATIVE POSTS!!! This isn't a feel good post, it's a post to encourage people with good reasons for pursing medicine to still follow their dreams despite hardships that might have adversely affected their academic records. And if encouraging post = feel good post, then so be it. Get ya minds right 😡

 

[tigress]

Okay, I haven't read this whole thread. But I've seen the student interviewer packet for one school, and the instructions about what to look for in an applicant. Sure, it mentioned looking for somebody who is capable of handling med school work. But that was DEFINITELY not the emphasis. It mostly emphasized personality, dedication, compassion, etc. Personality was the biggie.

So yeah, proving you know how to work hard is great. It might be very important. But I don't think, as the OP is suggesting, that this is the, or perhaps even a, deciding factor.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

Okay, I haven't read this whole thread. But I've seen the student interviewer packet for one school, and the instructions about what to look for in an applicant. Sure, it mentioned looking for somebody who is capable of handling med school work. But that was DEFINITELY not the emphasis. It mostly emphasized personality, dedication, compassion, etc. Personality was the biggie.

So yeah, proving you know how to work hard is great. It might be very important. But I don't think, as the OP is suggesting, that this is the, or perhaps even a, deciding factor.

Maybe not, I'm just glad the OP had enough sense to post something that didn't emphasize grades/MCAT scores as killer academic record seems to be the prevalent theory (among the pre-med bunch anyways) on the only way to get into med school.

 

[63768]

yea...you are not an adcom. you do not read thousands of applications, then interview hundreds of them. how could you possibly know what they want?

i don't think adcoms are to be dymystified. i think you be yourself, do your best, and get good grades while showing how hard you work, and that will get you in. we don't want people being led to think that grades and MCAT don't matter.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

yea...you are not an adcom. you do not read thousands of applications, then interview hundreds of them. how could you possibly know what they want?

since you're so smart and clairvoyant, how about shedding light on why i don't have any interview invites with a 3.32/32, ECs up the wazoo, and a great personality (this is from each of my recommenders, not myself haha)?

You're right, I'm not on adcom... I'm not the one you should be asking. Btw... if I'm not mistaking, it's still early in the game , why you trippin over no invites

 

[SeventhSon]

Yeah, engineering is a hard ass major (I tried my hand at it for a while... shudders ) But so is the plethora of the other science majors out there (Physics, Chem, Bio, Biochem) which the majority of med school applicants have. What you do in your downtime, and how you handle yourself away from the academic scene only confirms or backs up your grades and courseload. That is why (as DrYo so elegantly put it) HARD WORK really boils down to the total applicant and not just numbers (or choice of major). I think we're on the same page though, getting tied up in the specifics is where we diverge 🙂

as someone who changed from biochemistry to chemical engineering, i feel obligated to speak about this. The hardest class in the biochemistry track was o-chem. And O-chem was a joke compared to all of the other classes I took as an engineer. Major definitely shows harder work, other things being equal. Whether or not adcoms are smart enough to realize this, I don't know, but I suspect they are. In the end, I would agree with the theory that all other things being equal, a harder major means harder work, but in practice you will rarely see all other EC's, etc. being equal, and consequently, major will not be a factor in admissions.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

yea...you are not an adcom. you do not read thousands of applications, then interview hundreds of them. how could you possibly know what they want?

i don't think adcoms are to be dymystified. i think you be yourself, do your best, and get good grades while showing how hard you work, and that will get you in.

Sounds like you did some great dymystifying to me

we don't want people being led to think that grades and MCAT don't matter.

Anyone who is led to believe that has some serious issues that would probably get them rejected anyways... I mean come on who in their right would even consider such. Again, my main point (as was the OP's if you got past the hard work motiff) acceptance = total person, not 4.0/45T

 

[SeventhSon]

I got your axiom right here bud....your pulling a tech. here lawyer dude...IT IS IMPLIED THAT ONE HAS A LOVE FOR MEDICINE IF YOU WORK HARD TO GET INTO regarding the OP's statement. Why else would you work hard as a premed? I don't work my tail off because I love fire hydrants.

BTW your reasoning/ logic is flawed.

This is a gosh darn excellent post and I want to mail this dude $50

Where would we be without a troll?

First of all, I'm not trolling at all. I am offering a counterpoint to the OP because I think it is a reasonably well thought-out post but it is missing some considerations.

My first point, regarding the inclusiveness of numbers and hard work, fine, was very technical, but from the author's language he seemed to be assuming that these numbers are reasonably often able to be achieved without putting in your hours. I object to this claim. So does g3pro and a couple other people who have posted.

Secondly, I want to reiterate my second point: it is completely possible for one to work incredibly hard as a pre-med, do all their shadowing, get good grades, and still have no clue why they are directing hard work to medicine. This is why we write a personal statement in AMCAS. The purpose of this is not to create a laundry list of our accomplishments and hard work but rather demonstrate how each of these experiences showed us that medicine is the sensible choice of a career for our skills. So you shadowed a doctor... volunteered in the ER.... great. How do you bridge the gap between the statement "I shadowed Dr. X" and "this showed me that I want to be a doctor"? How do all of your experiences accomplish this? Why didn't you choose to go to law or business school instead? As I explained with the example of my cousin, if you work had but view medical school as an entitlement due to your hard work but don't understand why you want to be a doctor then you may finish medical school and realize that your heart really isn't in the profession.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

First of all, I'm not trolling at all. I am offering a counterpoint to the OP because I think it is a reasonably well thought-out post but it is missing some considerations.

My first point, regarding the inclusiveness of numbers and hard work, fine, was very technical, but from the author's language he seemed to be assuming that these numbers are reasonably often able to be achieved without putting in your hours. I object to this claim. So does g3pro and a couple other people who have posted.

Secondly, I want to reiterate my second point: it is completely possible for one to work incredibly hard as a pre-med, do all their shadowing, get good grades, and still have no clue why they are directing hard work to medicine. This is why we write a personal statement in AMCAS. The purpose of this is not to create a laundry list of our accomplishments and hard work but rather demonstrate how each of these experiences showed us that medicine is the sensible choice of a career for our skills. So you shadowed a doctor... volunteered in the ER.... great. How do you bridge the gap between the statement "I shadowed Dr. X" and "this showed me that I want to be a doctor"? How do all of your experiences accomplish this? Why didn't you choose to go to law or business school instead? As I explained with the example of my cousin, if you work had but view medical school as an entitlement due to your hard work but don't understand why you want to be a doctor then you may finish medical school and realize that your heart really isn't in the profession.

Damn, well spoken, I have to say 👍