Med school apologizes to students "triggered" by a test question

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

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Interesting. Well I can't say I've heard that argument before and I'm sure the author's heart is in the right place but I don't agree. Although I certainly believe in unconscious/implicit bias and that white people are the beneficiaries of systemic racism.

White people absolutely benefit. But calling someone racist because of the color of their skin is a bit ironic, and it’s not okay.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I once had to listen to a black student in a college class rant in front of everyone about how racist I am for being Jewish and how I support terrorism. When I spoke up to defend myself, I was basically told to shut up by the professor and that Jews are racist as a people, particularly against black people. That was fun.

It's what you get for not sharing your gold

 

[frenchyn]

I have patients who called me bitch...I have patients who tried to hit me w monitor cable...I have patients who refused me to take care of them because I have an accent or they rather have someone “white”...I have patients who ask me to get in bed with them...I have patient complained my fingers are so big, I was hurting them (I wear size 5 gloves)......Bottom line is: you are there to take care of patients...they are not there to take care of you. Sometime you just have to grow some thick skin and ignore the idiots...you can’t expect patient to tailor to your “trigger”...WTH do they say? I have “dyspnea” instead of “I can’t breath”....good luck with that...you are lucky if they don’t yell at you when you try to listen to their lung sounds because really they can’t breath...it is not about you...if you can’t take care of imaginary patients...trust me real patients are worse...

 

[bananafish94]

@bananafish94 this is the outcome of PC culture and the censorship of ideas. People are ruining careers over comments that are dissenting, and certainly not racist. If it were just a few people whining it wouldn’t be an issue. The issue is that they want to take away your livelihood because you disagree with them.

Honestly, this is an issue that I really struggle with. I think that people universally make mistakes and do things that they shouldn't. I also think that pretty much everybody is capable of growth and change. I can tell you that I very much disagree with the current trend of digging back into somebody's past to find something controversial they said a long time ago to stir things up, especially if it obviously no longer reflects who they are. As for this particular example, man, I don't know. I vehemently disagree with her Facebook post and don't even really know what she's talking about for part of it, and I can clearly see why people are angry with her. At the same time, I don't want her career to be ruined over one post. I really don't know. I wish there was some sort of perfect middle ground but if there is I can't think of it. I'm sorry I don't have a better response.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Honestly, this is an issue that I really struggle with. I think that people universally make mistakes and do things that they shouldn't. I also think that pretty much everybody is capable of growth and change. I can tell you that I very much disagree with the current trend of digging back into somebody's past to find something controversial they said a long time ago to stir things up, especially if it obviously no longer reflects who they are. As for this particular example, man, I don't know. I vehemently disagree with her Facebook post and don't even really know what she's talking about for part of it, and I can clearly see why people are angry with her. At the same time, I don't want her career to be ruined over one post. I really don't know. I wish there was some sort of perfect middle ground but if there is I can't think of it. I'm sorry I don't have a better response.

Are you talking about the principal? I’m curious what she said that you think people have the right to be angry with.

 

[Damson]

Honestly, this is an issue that I really struggle with. I think that people universally make mistakes and do things that they shouldn't. I also think that pretty much everybody is capable of growth and change. I can tell you that I very much disagree with the current trend of digging back into somebody's past to find something controversial they said a long time ago to stir things up, especially if it obviously no longer reflects who they are. As for this particular example, man, I don't know. I vehemently disagree with her Facebook post and don't even really know what she's talking about for part of it, and I can clearly see why people are angry with her. At the same time, I don't want her career to be ruined over one post. I really don't know. I wish there was some sort of perfect middle ground but if there is I can't think of it. I'm sorry I don't have a better response.

There is no such thing as a right to not be offended. In order to engage in thought and discussion, one risks being offended.

Apologizing for causing offense is a personal choice, neither right nor wrong, because people care about other people's feelings to varying extents. What's sad is when people demand an apology for being offended, or try to sabotage someone's life/career for being offended.

I don't really get your "I don't knows" and "middle ground", as if the principal deserves some kind of consequence for expressing her opinion.

 

[TRPMinus]

Honestly, this is an issue that I really struggle with. I think that people universally make mistakes and do things that they shouldn't. I also think that pretty much everybody is capable of growth and change. I can tell you that I very much disagree with the current trend of digging back into somebody's past to find something controversial they said a long time ago to stir things up, especially if it obviously no longer reflects who they are. As for this particular example, man, I don't know. I vehemently disagree with her Facebook post and don't even really know what she's talking about for part of it, and I can clearly see why people are angry with her. At the same time, I don't want her career to be ruined over one post. I really don't know. I wish there was some sort of perfect middle ground but if there is I can't think of it. I'm sorry I don't have a better response.

I genuinely appreciate your reply. It isn’t often that people reply thoughtfully and respectfully and even though we disagree on some things it’s refreshing to see that you are willing to think about these things. I think that if people are willing to just hear others out without jumping to conclusions and lighting each other on fire we’d find a lot more common ground. My biggest concern is that people will be punished for expressing an opinion when that freedom is the basis for our society.

 

[deleted480308]

Honestly, this is an issue that I really struggle with. I think that people universally make mistakes and do things that they shouldn't. I also think that pretty much everybody is capable of growth and change. I can tell you that I very much disagree with the current trend of digging back into somebody's past to find something controversial they said a long time ago to stir things up, especially if it obviously no longer reflects who they are. As for this particular example, man, I don't know. I vehemently disagree with her Facebook post and don't even really know what she's talking about for part of it, and I can clearly see why people are angry with her. At the same time, I don't want her career to be ruined over one post. I really don't know. I wish there was some sort of perfect middle ground but if there is I can't think of it. I'm sorry I don't have a better response.

What did the principal say that would upset a reasonable person?

 

[FanofBase33]

It's important to be sensitive about these issues. Did anyone interrogate the patient to determine why he would do such a thing?

As a follow up, what happened to the patient?
Did the students that complained get the question right or wrong?
Did the patient survive?

 

[bananafish94]

Are you talking about the principal? I’m curious what she said that you think people have the right to be angry with.

What did the principal say that would upset a reasonable person?

The post is, at best, grossly ignorant of a very real danger that some of her students face. We're facing a national reckoning about law enforcement killing black people, and she's tweeting "what about our law enforcement?" Come on. I know I'm not exactly speaking to a liberal crowd here, but that's not a great comment. She complains about being forced to choose the "black race over the human race." I'll be generous in my interpretation of this statement (though it's worded...badly) and say that it's probably a ham-handed "all lives matter"-esque statement that is dismissive of real fears and dangers that her students face. Finally, I genuinely have no idea what she's talking about re: "coercive measures that are falsified to prove a point"so I'll defer judgment on that for now but it doesn't sound great.

 

[bananafish94]

There is no such thing as a right to not be offended.

I'm aware, I never said there was.

What's sad is when people demand an apology for being offended, or try to sabotage someone's life/career for being offended.

Define "offended." If someone makes an ignorant joke with racist or sexist overtones, that's one thing. It might be offensive, but I certainly wouldn't want to go after somebody's career over that and would probably disagree with anyone who did. But what if someone posts some horrible tirade about a certain race on Facebook and uses all sorts of racial slurs? Also offensive. But I think there are legitimate concerns about this person working in a job like a doctor or a teacher.

as if the principal deserves some kind of consequence for expressing her opinion.

Are you saying that in this case she doesn't deserve consequences for this particular opinion or that nobody ever deserves consequences for expressing any opinion?

 

[Osminog]

What did the principal say that would upset a reasonable person?

It doesn't matter whether what the principal said would upset a reasonable person. Reasonable people aren't running the show right now, so their opinions aren't relevant.

When the mob declares that billions of dollars in property damage and stolen goods is just payback for racial injustice, you're not allowed to "not agree with the coercive measures" taken by arsonists and looters. When the mob declares that America's police force is inherently racist and should be defunded/abolished, you aren't allowed to ask despicable questions like, "what about our fellow law enforcement?”. When the mob commands white people to recognize and repent for the widespread systemic racism that allegedly seeps into every aspect of American culture, you aren't allowed to discourage people from "choos[ing] black race over human race.”

To make a racial justice omelet, you have to crack some eggs. This principal's career is just one of the many eggs that will have to be cracked in the coming months. I think race relations will only start to improve once Biden gets elected and once COVID-19 is more under control.

 

[deleted480308]

The post is, at best, grossly ignorant of a very real danger that some of her students face. We're facing a national reckoning about law enforcement killing black people, and she's tweeting "what about our law enforcement?" Come on. I know I'm not exactly speaking to a liberal crowd here, but that's not a great comment. She complains about being forced to choose the "black race over the human race." I'll be generous in my interpretation of this statement (though it's worded...badly) and say that it's probably a ham-handed "all lives matter"-esque statement that is dismissive of real fears and dangers that her students face. Finally, I genuinely have no idea what she's talking about re: "coercive measures that are falsified to prove a point"so I'll defer judgment on that for now but it doesn't sound great.

“What about law enforcement” could be a reference to all the decent ones that are now being lumped in as being racist when many of them aren’t and many wouldn’t put up with bad behavior if they saw it. (Edit, atlanta) just charged a cop with murder. Murder. For firing at an altered driver with a criminal history that assaulted them after being given an extremely civil sobriety test, took a weapon from them, and tried to fire it at an office in an attempt to escape. Murder charges. So yeah, a little “what about how the country is treating cops right now?” Is a reasonable question. George floyd was murdered. Those cops need charged. The (edit atlanta) cops don’t.

coercive methods is burning crap down and destroying things as pressure to get demands met (that’s not to say sone demands aren’t good ideas)

and yeah, the notion that saying all lives matter is so offensive and problematic that it should get someone in trouble is coercive too. No one should beinnappropriately treated by cops, we can all address that together because everyone has issues with it. One doesn’t need to prescribe to all the demandsof blm as an organization in order to want better policing

local activist makes a bunch of demands, principal says no, activist gets them talking enough to quote them not 100% backing all the talking points and then tries to get them fired. That’s coercive

 

[IMG69]

After scanning all this, are you guys not worried about what may happen to the USA in the next 10-15 years and the direction things are going? As someone watching from the outside, that video by Neel Kolhatkar comes to mind 🤔

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The post is, at best, grossly ignorant of a very real danger that some of her students face. We're facing a national reckoning about law enforcement killing black people, and she's tweeting "what about our law enforcement?" Come on. I know I'm not exactly speaking to a liberal crowd here, but that's not a great comment. She complains about being forced to choose the "black race over the human race." I'll be generous in my interpretation of this statement (though it's worded...badly) and say that it's probably a ham-handed "all lives matter"-esque statement that is dismissive of real fears and dangers that her students face. Finally, I genuinely have no idea what she's talking about re: "coercive measures that are falsified to prove a point"so I'll defer judgment on that for now but it doesn't sound great.

So you’re saying people have the right to be outraged that she doesn’t want to be bullied into supporting things she may not agree with (eg, the rioting)?

As for the last thing, I’m guessing she’s referring to the highly edited videos that have been circulating on the media and Facebook lately that attempt to show cops being racist and arresting black people for no reason while leaving out everything that led up to the arrest. Or she could be referring to the cases where cops have killed black people in self defense and how it was twisted to make it appear like they did it out of malice. I’m not really sure what she’s referring to, but I’m guessing it’s one or both of those.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

The post is, at best, grossly ignorant of a very real danger that some of her students face. We're facing a national reckoning about law enforcement killing black people, and she's tweeting "what about our law enforcement?" Come on. I know I'm not exactly speaking to a liberal crowd here, but that's not a great comment. She complains about being forced to choose the "black race over the human race." I'll be generous in my interpretation of this statement (though it's worded...badly) and say that it's probably a ham-handed "all lives matter"-esque statement that is dismissive of real fears and dangers that her students face. Finally, I genuinely have no idea what she's talking about re: "coercive measures that are falsified to prove a point"so I'll defer judgment on that for now but it doesn't sound great.

I've disagreed with your posts this far but at least understood where you were coming from. Until this one. This is straight up ignorant and I suggest you find some police to talk to and understand their perspective, much like I'd expect you to want white people to talk to black people to understand their perspective. It's obvious you've never spoken to a police officer.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

So you’re saying people have the right to be outraged that she doesn’t want to be bullied into supporting things she may not agree with (eg, the rioting)?

The most upsetting part about all of this to me is the fact that you're bullied even if you say nothing. I don't post on Facebook in general, except for the occasional photo of a big life event or something of the nature. In the last few weeks, every social media site I've been on has had posts along the lines of "if you say nothing, you're racist and also part of the problem". Excuse me? So if I do say something, and express my actual opinion, I'll get attacked. If I choose to say silent and just mind my own business, I'm somehow even a bigger problem? It's gotten to the point where I almost can't stand being on Facebook.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

Med school admission committees selected for this kind of nonsense, and now educators and clinicians are left to figure out how to manage it.

The level headed ones are keeping their heads down and profile low in order to GTFO and get to practicing medicine. That leaves the students operating on a hair trigger the ones with the dominant voice. Hard to imagine wanton belligerence translating to good medicine, but we'll see.

The most upsetting part about all of this to me is the fact that you're bullied even if you say nothing. I don't post on Facebook in general, except for the occasional photo of a big life event or something of the nature. In the last few weeks, every social media site I've been on has had posts along the lines of "if you say nothing, you're racist and also part of the problem". Excuse me? So if I do say something, and express my actual opinion, I'll get attacked. If I choose to say silent and just mind my own business, I'm somehow even a bigger problem? It's gotten to the point where I almost can't stand being on Facebook.

I’ve gotten rid of all social media, I hung on to Instagram but it’s been deleted in the past month. Mostly because their new algorithm some how makes me follow obnoxious accounts. Social media and MDR bacteria will be the two things that destroy human civilization.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I’ve gotten rid of all social media, I hung on to Instagram but it’s been deleted in the past month. Mostly because their new algorithm some how makes me follow obnoxious accounts. Social media and MDR bacteria will be the two things that destroy human civilization.

 

[Espressso]

The most upsetting part about all of this to me is the fact that you're bullied even if you say nothing. I don't post on Facebook in general, except for the occasional photo of a big life event or something of the nature. In the last few weeks, every social media site I've been on has had posts along the lines of "if you say nothing, you're racist and also part of the problem". Excuse me? So if I do say something, and express my actual opinion, I'll get attacked. If I choose to say silent and just mind my own business, I'm somehow even a bigger problem? It's gotten to the point where I almost can't stand being on Facebook.

Well, FB is trash for a whole host of reasons. But the group think and outrage algorithm is a big part of it. It lives off causing us to be pissed off.

 

[Espressso]

I've disagreed with your posts this far but at least understood where you were coming from. Until this one. This is straight up ignorant and I suggest you find some police to talk to and understand their perspective, much like I'd expect you to want white people to talk to black people to understand their perspective. It's obvious you've never spoken to a police officer.

What is straight up ignorant about this comment? I'm missing all your points here.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

View attachment 310518

done! We ask you kindly provide us witha social security number and 2 credit cards

 

[Neopolymath]

I do not like this new trend in circular politics and gatekeeping. If I don't 1000% agree with all of the extreme liberal/progressive ideas then I am essentially to be hated and labeled as a Trump lover conservative. It's hilarious that people are so outraged they are becoming the very fascists they hate.

This is exactly what's going on here. Some people are like "be reasonable and not insane/ironically marginalizing everything that remotely disagrees with you" and suddenly it's " I'm only speaking to conservatives on this website blah blah blah"

It's so tedious. I hope everyone reading this examines if they are thinking this way in real life and online because that's how you lose support from both moderates and progressives. It ultimately leads to setting your cause back and disillusionment with a reasonable goal. Reaction formation and whatnot.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Well, FB is trash for a whole host of reasons. But the group think and outrage algorithm is a big part of it. It lives off causing us to be pissed off.

I agree, but it's more the mindset that is propagating these kinds of sentiments that bothers me. We're living in a society where everyone wants free speech-- unless you disagree with them, in which case you're a "heartless cu** and should unfriend me", as one person I used to go to college with so eloquently put. When did we get to a point where people automatically cast you out if you disagree with them? I can't tell you the amount of posts I've seen, from "friends", along these lines: "if you think xyz, unfriend me right now because you're a racist and are the worst part of society".

 

[deleted688779]

It doesn't matter whether what the principal said would upset a reasonable person. Reasonable people aren't running the show right now, so their opinions aren't relevant.

When the mob declares that billions of dollars in property damage and stolen goods is just payback for racial injustice, you're not allowed to "not agree with the coercive measures" taken by arsonists and looters. When the mob declares that America's police force is inherently racist and should be defunded/abolished, you aren't allowed to ask despicable questions like, "what about our fellow law enforcement?”. When the mob commands white people to recognize and repent for the widespread systemic racism that allegedly seeps into every aspect of American culture, you aren't allowed to discourage people from "choos[ing] black race over human race.”

Are you being sarcastic??????

 

[RangerBob]

Are you being sarcastic??????

I think the poster was speaking to the fact that when you get a big enough group of people with passions and emotions running high, group-think/mob-rule takes over and it becomes increasingly difficult to have a dialogue with them & change their trajectory.

The converse applies too. Think of the "mob rules" of most of MLK and Gandhi's protests. Non-violence was their norm and baked in, and it was quite difficult for their oppressors to elicit violent reactions of them. Most of us get upset when we see a photo of the white cops/fireman shooting peacefully protesting middle-aged Black men/women with fire hoses, or sending attack dogs at them. Yet, despite those counter-protest tactics, those movements remained largely peaceful. And they worked. People were horrified by what they saw being done to peaceful protestors.

I think the approaches MLK and Gandhi took created the more (though unfortunately not fully) harmonious society they wanted to create. The converse is you take what you want by force/violence. It may get you what you want quicker, but doesn't lead to long-lasting societal changes/class harmony. You can't cure the country of systemic racism by making it illegal. You cure it by opening people's eyes, so they look around and see what each of them as an individual and as a group are doing to contribute to the problem.

People often instinctively get angry/resentful when violence or intimidation is used. It can and often worsens the problem--the "all lives matter" in response to "Black lives matter" is a classic example. It's a knee-jerk reaction along the lines of "but what about me?"
"Black lives matter" isn't saying that White cops' lives don't matter. It's saying more attention needs to be given to what Blacks are facing. While I understand the sentiment behind "all lives matter," and as a Christian I do certainly believe all lives do matter and have dignity, what BLM is trying to do is elevate Blacks to that level of respect/worth/dignity that all lives are supposed to have in the first place.

 

[deleted688779]

I think the poster was speaking to the fact that when you get a big enough group of people with passions and emotions running high, group-think/mob-rule takes over and it becomes increasingly difficult to have a dialogue with them & change their trajectory.

The converse applies too. Think of the "mob rules" of most of MLK and Gandhi's protests. Non-violence was their norm and baked in, and it was quite difficult for their oppressors to elicit violent reactions of them. Most of us get upset when we see a photo of the white cops/fireman shooting peacefully protesting middle-aged Black men/women with fire hoses, or sending attack dogs at them. Yet, despite those counter-protest tactics, those movements remained largely peaceful. And they worked. People were horrified by what they saw being done to peaceful protestors.

I think the approaches MLK and Gandhi took created the more (though unfortunately not fully) harmonious society they wanted to create. The converse is you take what you want by force/violence. It may get you what you want quicker, but doesn't lead to long-lasting societal changes/class harmony. You can't cure the country of systemic racism by making it illegal. You cure it by opening people's eyes, so they look around and see what each of them as an individual and as a group are doing to contribute to the problem.

People often instinctively get angry/resentful when violence or intimidation is used. It can and often worsens the problem--the "all lives matter" in response to "Black lives matter" is a classic example. It's a knee-jerk reaction along the lines of "but what about me?"
"Black lives matter" isn't saying that White cops' lives don't matter. It's saying more attention needs to be given to what Blacks are facing. While I understand the sentiment behind "all lives matter," and as a Christian I do certainly believe all lives do matter and have dignity, what BLM is trying to do is elevate Blacks to that level of respect/worth/dignity that all lives are supposed to have in the first place.

I understand and agree with the meaning behind the phrase “black lives matter” (I was never an “all lives matter” guy). Though I am still against violence, looting, and damaging of property. I did have a knee-jerk reaction against violence and I still stand by my reaction, however, the difference is that I did not equate violence with BLM. However, I often find myself being grouped up with the conservatives, alt-right, or the “oppressors” for being against the violence. What’s ironic is that I’ve been a liberal voter all my life and I hold a pretty liberal ideology. But all of the sudden I am viewed as a die hard MAGA because I do not believe in using violence for the sake of protest, cancel culture (to an extent, there are certain actions that indeed are unacceptable), and using broad-stroke blanket statements whether it be against white people, police, or anyone else.

Edit: being against violence, like wearing a mask, shouldn’t even be a political issue!

 

[RangerBob]

I understand and agree with the meaning behind the phrase “black lives matter” (I was never an “all lives matter” guy). Though I am still against violence, looting, and damaging of property. I did have a knee-jerk reaction against violence and I still stand by my reaction, however, the difference is that I did not equate violence with BLM. However, I often find myself being grouped up with the conservatives, alt-right, or the “oppressors” for being against the violence. What’s ironic is that I’ve been a liberal voter all my life and I hold a pretty liberal ideology. But all of the sudden I am viewed as a die hard MAGA because I do not believe in using violence for the sake of protest, cancel culture (to an extent, there are certain actions that indeed are unacceptable), and using broad-stroke blanket statements whether it be against white people, police, or anyone else.

I’m probably in the same group as you, though I consider myself more of a moderate/independent. Unfortunately there a lot of misunderstanding and anger going around right now.

I don’t have a good solution other than trying to literally be the person you are hoping everyone else will be (sane, rational, caring, fair, etc). Which is actually really hard to do all the time!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The most upsetting part about all of this to me is the fact that you're bullied even if you say nothing. I don't post on Facebook in general, except for the occasional photo of a big life event or something of the nature. In the last few weeks, every social media site I've been on has had posts along the lines of "if you say nothing, you're racist and also part of the problem". Excuse me? So if I do say something, and express my actual opinion, I'll get attacked. If I choose to say silent and just mind my own business, I'm somehow even a bigger problem? It's gotten to the point where I almost can't stand being on Facebook.

I just post pics of my cats now.

 

[DrOngoGablogian]

I have a hard time believing that the “movements” and “causes” these days have much of anything to do with actual prejudice. Consider how Clarence Thomas and Ben Carson are reviled—isn’t that completely backwards?

I always chuckle when I remember that South Park episode where Gloria Allred calls big gay Al a homophobe because he disagreed with her. How remarkably accurate of a prediction that was.

 

[Iz_FtB]

I'm liberal. I welcome a Biden presidency as it will be the most progressive of all time, and I think he will do some good in reversing the nonsense of the last four years.

If anyone thinks that standing opposed to the self-righteous crusade to dominate the conversation is a uniquely conservative position, you'll need to untwist your mind.

If anyone hasn't already, read Animal Farm. Orwell's handle on human psychology is evergreen.

 

[2021Doctor]

The human race sucks in many respects. If you look at a field of cattle, the brown cows, white cows, and black cows all get along together. For some stupid reasons, humans divide themselves based on surface characteristics.

 

[solitarius]

I agree, but it's more the mindset that is propagating these kinds of sentiments that bothers me. We're living in a society where everyone wants free speech-- unless you disagree with them, in which case you're a "heartless cu** and should unfriend me", as one person I used to go to college with so eloquently put. When did we get to a point where people automatically cast you out if you disagree with them? I can't tell you the amount of posts I've seen, from "friends", along these lines: "if you think xyz, unfriend me right now because you're a racist and are the worst part of society".

Nobody wants free speech. Everybody just wants to win.

The tactics deployed today are despicable.

 

[Mochi2020]

Why can we as a society treat each person as individual? Regardless of each profession, there are bad and good ones. I don't think it is right to call all cops racist or call all black violence. Instead treat each person as individual.

Why can we each look things from each other perspective and see how and why we are being treated this way?
Cops: are being treated with high expectation and lack of respect, low pay, dangerous job (they have their families that they want to come home to as well)...How many individual out there can handle the stress of split second that determine life or death and make absolutely the best decision...
Black: my question is why Cops are not violent toward Asian or Hispanic? Asians and hispanics are being racist daily, why not as much violent? Fact: Black has higher crime rate than other races. Does that mean that we should group all black as violent? NOPE!!!!..

Also we are all born and raised with certain stigma and fear...Police: black. Black: police.

At the end, I can totally see areas that both groups can work on to improve/avoid what happened and we need to stop the blaming game. Just my two cents.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Black: my question is why Cops are not violent toward Asian or Hispanic?

I can’t tell if this is a serious question or not, but Native Americans actually are killed by the police at a higher rate than any other race.

 

[Mochi2020]

I can’t tell if this is a serious question or not, but Native Americans actually are killed by the police at a higher rate than any other race.

Native Americans actually are killed by the police at a higher rate than any other race --> history or current? Yes, it is serious question. Sorry I am unaware of this...I rarely see it being discussed...

 

[Iz_FtB]

Why can we as a society treat each person as individual? Regardless of each profession, there are bad and good ones. I don't think it is right to call all cops racist or call all black violence. Instead treat each person as individual.

Why can we each look things from each other perspective and see how and why we are being treated this way?
Cops: are being treated with high expectation and lack of respect, low pay, dangerous job (they have their families that they want to come home to as well)...How many individual out there can handle the stress of split second that determine life or death and make absolutely the best decision...
Black: my question is why Cops are not violent toward Asian or Hispanic? Asians and hispanics are being racist daily, why not as much violent? Fact: Black has higher crime rate than other races. Does that mean that we should group all black as violent? NOPE!!!!..

Also we are all born and raised with certain stigma and fear...Police: black. Black: police.

At the end, I can totally see areas that both groups can work on to improve/avoid what happened and we need to stop the blaming game. Just my two cents.

This is where the messiness of being a human comes into play.

An oppressive organizational culture eliminates individuality. The lack of accountability over generations has put police culture at odds with the sensibilities of a just society. It's not enough to ask for "good" individuals in that system to stand up against the bad ones. Accountability and transparency is the only way to move the needle on the fundamental problems we're contending with today, which I think is an organizational culture one. That will empower the inherent decency of individuals in that system to operate free of reprisal and hold other individuals to higher standards.

To bring things back to med school, the shifts in culture we are seeing here are driven by people with good and bad intentions. Well intended efforts like including including more racial diversity in the medical material being taught, like different representations of autoimmune and dermatologic problems across a range of skin types, are wholly good and elevate medicine. Efforts like harassing medical school admin into pledging to "abolish the police" and admit they were complicit in structural oppression, which is unfortunately something happening in my neck of the woods, is an abomination and is fueled more by ego than by doing right for others. The culture on campus is turning oppressive, and the good being accomplished by well meaning individuals will be washed away by the bad.

 

[bananafish94]

So you’re saying people have the right to be outraged that she doesn’t want to be bullied into supporting things she may not agree with (eg, the rioting)?

What I'm saying is that she's the principal of a school, and that's a sensitive job. She's not some random pencil pusher, she's the leader of a school and needs the support of the community she is serving. And in my opinion, teachers and principals should be expected to be advocates for their students. She's publicly making a statement with phrases like "while I want to get behind BLM" and "while I understand the urgency to feel compelled to advocate for black lives..." Frankly, and I guess I have to get a little political now, but any reasonable person and especially somebody who works with Black students should look at several killings of Black people in rapid succession at the hands of law enforcement or law enforcement-adjacent and think that this is a national crisis that needs to be addressed yesterday. Whether or not she should be fired is a whole other question but I entirely understand why people in the community would be outraged over this voluntary public statement in the context of what the nation is facing right now.

 

[bananafish94]

For firing at an altered driver with a criminal history that assaulted them after being given an extremely civil sobriety test, took a weapon from them, and tried to fire it at an office in an attempt to escape.

The fact that you mention that he has a criminal history and he was altered proves that you don't get it. None of that matters. I don't care if he had a criminal history or if he was drunk. Should he be arrested and charged with the crime he's committing? Of course. But that should not factor in one iota to the narrative surrounding how he was killed because it's just not relevant. I certainly care if he's attacking the police officers, although in this case it was my understanding that he was running away, got shot in the back, and then they didn't give him any medical attention for several minutes, which would be despicable. I'll have to read more about the nuances of it.

local activist makes a bunch of demands, principal says no, activist gets them talking enough to quote them not 100% backing all the talking points and then tries to get them fired.

What?!?!?! She voluntarily made a public post on her Facebook account! What ever happened to personal responsibility?

 

[bananafish94]

It's obvious you've never spoken to a police officer.

Not so, in fact I just spoke to a police officer I met the other day. I want to know their perspectives too.

 

[deleted480308]

What?!?!?! She voluntarily made a public post on her Facebook account! What ever happened to personal responsibility?

Responsibility for what? She didn’t say anything inappropriate in the quotes I saw

refusing to parrot anything a blm affiliated person says is not inappropriate, one can do that and still appropriately want cops held accountable. (That is a district where activists are asking for american flags to be replaced with blm Flags and for american flag themed items to not be handed out at events)

 

[deleted480308]

The fact that you mention that he has a criminal history and he was altered proves that you don't get it. None of that matters. I don't care if he had a criminal history or if he was drunk. Should he be arrested and charged with the crime he's committing? Of course. But that should not factor in one iota to the narrative surrounding how he was killed because it's just not relevant. I certainly care if he's attacking the police officers, although in this case it was my understanding that he was running away, got shot in the back, and then they didn't give him any medical attention for several minutes, which would be despicable. I'll have to read more about the nuances of it

I mentioned the history to show he has a track record of crimes and might therefore be more motivated to not be apprehended (corroborated by the video showing him very calm until they tried to cuff him) and that he was altered which means cops can’t assume he’ll make rational and safe decisions if he gets away and could be a risk to others as he escapes felony assault on a cop.

he was pointing a weapon at the cops (while running) when he got shot. I don’thave the full timeline of how long it took to give medical care but it’s important to note that securing the scene and weapons are the first priority and must be accomplished first, one of the officers was later diagnosed with a concussion, and the adrenaline surge of a situation like that can induce a shock like state. Care is not going to be Immediate. Once they have secured the weapons and checked on the officers, if they refused care to the suspect they absolutely should be charged criminally for that, I haven’t seen enough information to make that accusation yet. Have you?

 

[Mochi2020]

Responsibility for what? She didn’t say anything inappropriate in the quotes I saw

refusing to parrot anything a blm affiliated person says is not inappropriate, one can do that and still appropriately want cops held accountable. (That is a district where activists are asking for american flags to be replaced with blm Flags and for american flag themed items to not be handed out at events)

I know there is a petition started by some black students to change this year step 1 to P/F because of what happened, the stress, and the time that was taken away from them to protest...I agree with you, the extreme some of these people took regarding this matter is mind blowing...How is this fair to those who work their butt off to do well on step 1 or few themselves experienced DIRECT personal loss before step 1 and scored poorly...they did not petition...

 

[deleted480308]

I know there is a petition started by some black students to change this year step 1 to P/F because of what happened, the stress, and the time that was taken away from them to protest...I agree with you, the extreme some of these people took regarding this matter is mind blowing...How is this fair to those who work their butt off to do well on step 1 or few themselves experienced DIRECT personal loss before step 1 and scored poorly...they did not petition...?

No one took any med student’s time for this, everyone made adult choices. If someone doesn’t study, that’s on them. I’m pissed off about floyd too, he was straight up murdered. I also have patients that need care. I can be mad at work

 

[Mochi2020]

I mentioned the history to show he has a track record of crimes and might therefore be more motivated to not be apprehended (corroborated by the video showing him very calm until they tried to cuff him) and that he was altered which means cops can’t assume he’ll make rational and safe decisions if he gets away and could be a risk to others as he escapes felony assault on a cop.

he was pointing a weapon at the cops (while running) when he got shot. I don’thave the full timeline of how long it took to give medical care but it’s important to note that securing the scene and weapons are the first priority and must be accomplished first, one of the officers was later diagnosed with a concussion, and the adrenaline surge of a situation like that can induce a shock like state. Care is not going to be Immediate. Once they have secured the weapons and checked on the officers, if they refused care to the suspect they absolutely should be charged criminally for that, I haven’t seen enough information to make that accusation yet. Have you?

Same as you IDK the whole story and time line...but I want to add another perspective: How many times do police actually fire their guns in their career and put in situation like this to be able to respond immediately after the event. Maybe just me, but how many medical students or new interns/residents immediately know what to do in that split moment what to do when a patient codes? Idk about you all, but few times when I experienced situation like that, I froze...The more you experience the faster your response time obviously...but my point is: put yourself into that police's situation, perspective, and procedures...

 

[Espressso]

Same as you IDK the whole story and time line...but I want to add another perspective: How many times do police actually fire their guns in their career and put in situation like this to be able to respond immediately after the event. Maybe just me, but how many medical students or new interns/residents immediately know what to do in that split moment what to do when a patient codes? Idk about you all, but few times when I experienced situation like that, I froze...The more you experience the faster your response time obviously...but my point is: put yourself into that police's situation, perspective, and procedures...

Oh spare me. These are cops. They're held to a higher standard, the same way docs are held to a higher standard. And if that's your argument then these cops need WAY more training. Absolutely crazy to think otherwise. Compare a cops training to that of a resident.

As for the Atlanta case. These cops should never have been called to the scene. It's a drunk guy sleeping. No need to have armed officers called. Not to mention, he was shot in the back. Lol. In. The. Back. Total threat you must be, to threaten someone as you're running away. Let's be real here. He's being charged for murder because he shot the guy. In the back.

The defund the police movement is a misnomer in many aspects. Don't defund them, but move the money around. We're asking cops to do way too much. They don't need to be called for fake money being used, they don't need to be called for a passed out drunk guy, they don't need to be called for homeless people, drug addicts, etc etc. And the cops that remain, should be trained much better.

 

[deleted480308]

Oh spare me. These are cops. They're held to a higher standard, the same way docs are held to a higher standard. And if that's your argument then these cops need WAY more training. Absolutely crazy to think otherwise. Compare a cops training to that of a resident.

As for the Atlanta case. These cops should never have been called to the scene. It's a drunk guy sleeping. No need to have armed officers called. Not to mention, he was shot in the back. Lol. In. The. Back. Total threat you must be, to threaten someone as you're running away. Let's be real here. He's being charged for murder because he shot the guy. In the back.

The defund the police movement is a misnomer in many aspects. Don't defund them, but move the money around. We're asking cops to do way too much. They don't need to be called for fake money being used, they don't need to be called for a passed out drunk guy, they don't need to be called for homeless people, drug addicts, etc etc. And the cops that remain, should be trained much better.

It wasn’t a guy sleeping off fatigue at a rest stop, it was a guy so altered he parked his car in the driving lane and customers had to drive around him. It’s absolutely a great time to call cops.

they also treated him very nicely for a thorough sobriety check and got attacked when they tried to cuff him. He won a 2v1 fight and stole a taser which he was pointing at them when hewas shot. This is not as simple as “shot in the back =murder”.

counterfeiting is also absolutely a reason to call cops

 

[deleted1005514]

Oh spare me. These are cops. They're held to a higher standard, the same way docs are held to a higher standard. And if that's your argument then these cops need WAY more training. Absolutely crazy to think otherwise. Compare a cops training to that of a resident.

As for the Atlanta case. These cops should never have been called to the scene. It's a drunk guy sleeping. No need to have armed officers called. Not to mention, he was shot in the back. Lol. In. The. Back. Total threat you must be, to threaten someone as you're running away. Let's be real here. He's being charged for murder because he shot the guy. In the back.

The defund the police movement is a misnomer in many aspects. Don't defund them, but move the money around. We're asking cops to do way too much. They don't need to be called for fake money being used, they don't need to be called for a passed out drunk guy, they don't need to be called for homeless people, drug addicts, etc etc. And the cops that remain, should be trained much better.

Average training time for police is 13-19 weeks, some of the better trained forces do 6 months but that’s the exception. They definitely need better training, both in dealing with life & death situations as well as issues like psychiatric disorders, Alzheimer’s, etc.

Police/fire/EMS is who people call when they don’t know what to do. If a situation would be handled better by a psychologist or social worker, then 911 dispatch needs to be able to contact them and send them where they’re needed.

 

[Mochi2020]

Oh spare me. These are cops. They're held to a higher standard, the same way docs are held to a higher standard. And if that's your argument then these cops need WAY more training. Absolutely crazy to think otherwise. Compare a cops training to that of a resident.

As for the Atlanta case. These cops should never have been called to the scene. It's a drunk guy sleeping. No need to have armed officers called. Not to mention, he was shot in the back. Lol. In. The. Back. Total threat you must be, to threaten someone as you're running away. Let's be real here. He's being charged for murder because he shot the guy. In the back.

The defund the police movement is a misnomer in many aspects. Don't defund them, but move the money around. We're asking cops to do way too much. They don't need to be called for fake money being used, they don't need to be called for a passed out drunk guy, they don't need to be called for homeless people, drug addicts, etc etc. And the cops that remain, should be trained much better.

I am not comparing the training. I am comparing the reaction time between someone who is exposed to the situation prior or multiple times vs someone who is rarely exposed to it. Obviously the more you are exposed to XYZ, the faster you know to handle it.

How do you know the police should have never been called to the scene or should not be called due to the homeless people, drug addicts, etc????? Again I don't know the whole story, but he may be causing noise? it may be about his safety? You think it is safe for a person to live on the street at night? Drug addict may overdose? homeless person may be doing drugs? I even have patients found out unresponsive by police who otherwise would have die? You obviously in no position to decide whether or not that should respond to those...most of the times may be useless but there are few where their response will be useful..and I don't know if there is a way to really justify that...

You also forgot the part where the guy turned around and taz the police lmao...I disagree with the part where shooting at the back too...obviously it would have been better if he shot the leg...but again that split second...is it his first time shooting someone? not every is born as a sniper you know...

 

[NITRAS]

Oh spare me. These are cops. They're held to a higher standard, the same way docs are held to a higher standard. And if that's your argument then these cops need WAY more training. Absolutely crazy to think otherwise. Compare a cops training to that of a resident.

As for the Atlanta case. These cops should never have been called to the scene. It's a drunk guy sleeping. No need to have armed officers called. Not to mention, he was shot in the back. Lol. In. The. Back. Total threat you must be, to threaten someone as you're running away. Let's be real here. He's being charged for murder because he shot the guy. In the back.

The defund the police movement is a misnomer in many aspects. Don't defund them, but move the money around. We're asking cops to do way too much. They don't need to be called for fake money being used, they don't need to be called for a passed out drunk guy, they don't need to be called for homeless people, drug addicts, etc etc. And the cops that remain, should be trained much better.

A drunk falls asleep in my driveway, I call the cops. I tell him to go, he either doesn't go or he gets in his car a drives drunk away. Both bad outcomes.