Med school in India or US

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cut him some slack lol, he hasn't started college to learn about credible sources... -_-
You're not asking me to research anything.. Just throwing out subjectives and saying "the best are in in Europe" is ridiculous..
There are men of great intelligence, and acclaimed researchers in their professions all over the world.
 
You're not asking me to research anything.. Just throwing out subjectives and saying "the best are in in Europe" is ridiculous..
There are men of great intelligence, and acclaimed researchers in their professions all over the world.
no one know what you are saying.

Anyway, I think op has gotten the information he/she needs by now.
 
You're not asking me to research anything.. Just throwing out subjectives and saying "the best are in in Europe" is ridiculous..
There are men of great intelligence, and acclaimed researchers in their professions all over the world.

Your claims are ridiculous when you try to generalize a country of 1 billion. My claim with the best scientists was specifically concerned with recent Nobel Laureates as well as industries migrating to Asia. I can't quite figure out whether you are a troll or not, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt: the more far-reaching your claims are, the better support with credible sources they will need; not an op-ed by The Guardian.
 
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It talks about studies done.. It also gives an unbiased view and points out the reason is duty the thought that high education is the only way to make it.. (which is not true in the U.S but is true in Asia)
But here in the US you really can't do much with a HS diploma or some sort of BS/BSE/BA degree. Recently, even engineers are finding that they need to specialize (usually through a masters) for more job options. So far I can mostly see computer science undergraduates that are still "safe" from this gradual progression toward higher education degrees for good job opportunities.
 
Your claims are ridiculous when you try to generalize a country of 1 billion. My claim with the best scientists was specifically concerned with recent Nobel Laureates as well as industries migrating to Asia. I can't quite figure out whether you are a troll or not, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt: the more far-reaching your claims are, the better support with credible sources they will need; not an op-ed by The Guardian.

Industries having to migrate to Asia has to do with cost.. That's common knowledge..
Also: 4 nobel prize winners from 2014 are American.. So... If 4 out of 13 nobel prize winners are American(2014), which country is achieving more??? Your claims are unfounded, and have been proven wrong.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lists/year/?year=2014
 
Let me just summarize this thread which was ridiculous to begin with:
  • If you are a US citizen, you are just about everything but smart if you don't come back to get US education at a time of so much healthcare change. To even think that you are good enough for a top institute of a developing country (India) is naive just like it is when a high schooler contemplates and even accepts the dream about attending harvard the following year before even applying. In my opinion you just about have gained every sort of attribute for your country of residence except for respect of its education and meritous integrity. Sure you can pay your way; in fact you can do that just about everywhere in this world (top or bottom ranked).
  • I am amazingly glad that I have been placed in the US because part of becoming any type of profession is loving what it is all about. Having the respect for it. Education will always come your way; to have it crammed like they do in Asia is in my opinion a terrible way of making the majority love what they do and accept talent. I don't care if your standard exams in India are made for the best to solve; currently few of that intelligence is coming to use for your country. Most of these IITs go to foreign countries only to never look back.
  • Also, sure you might overwhelm the stats here and say hopkins or duke were safeties for your friends and you perhaps but to be honest, just because you get into those schools does not equate success. It is what you do at that institute that merits an applause.
  • acceptance rates are higher in India because there is greater populous and then the application is not as expensive as it is for US universities. Did we all forget that it takes anywhere from $60-$120 to pay for an app here and that too comes with 60k/year price for privates? I think we all know which country's schools would be deemed more competitive if those barriers were replaced.
  • I am pretty loyal to what is true and I just can't help seeing that all of the commentators (except for OP) talking about the easiness of US school admission and education are here getting educated in the US instead of India. Apparently, I am sure that even if you were educated elsewhere, you would have still came to the US right?...wait that doesn't make sense
  • All that being said, Go US!
 
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But here in the US you really can't do much with a HS diploma or some sort of BS/BSE/BA degree. Recently, even engineers are finding that they need to specialize (usually through a masters) for more job options. So far I can mostly see computer science undergraduates that are still "safe" from this gradual progression toward higher education degrees for good job opportunities.
wat? do you even job? The market is great if you do your homework. If you are an international though, you will come across a LOT of roadblocks especially when you ask companies to sponsor you. Aside from that, jobs where it is hitting saturation will obviously experience tough times--that's just simple economics.
 
Industries having to migrate to Asia has to do with cost.. That's common knowledge..
Also: 4 nobel prize winners from 2014 are American.. So... If 4 out of 13 nobel prize winners are American(2014), which country is achieving more??? Your claims are unfounded, and have been proven wrong.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lists/year/?year=2014
industries are actually moving away from asia to rural european countries. Cost is soaring in all these asian countries; eventually all of this will start looking more like developed nations. Read the news man.
 
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You would be surprised. Many of the schools lack the funds to actually run proper teaching hospitals, and there aren't exactly tons of decent hospitals clamoring to take in med students in India. You can have all the patients in the world, but without infrastructure and funding (insurance isn't something possessed by the vast majority of Indians, so even if they need care, there is no one to pay for it) those patients can't be seen.
buddy, insurance isn't needed in countries like India where if you fall down the stairs, the hospital/clinic is down the road and doesn't cost you your first born child lol. In terms of infrastructure; India is a land of diversity and extremes for some reason. You will come across some of the best hospitals and then you won't. It's the sad truth but in reality, it's regulation--they have the infrastructure for support.
 
buddy, insurance isn't needed in countries like India where if you fall down the stairs, the hospital/clinic is down the road and doesn't cost you your first born child lol. In terms of infrastructure; India is a land of diversity and extremes for some reason. You will come across some of the best hospitals and then you won't. It's the sad truth but in reality, it's regulation--they have the infrastructure for support.
The WHO begs to disagree with your assertation that the average Indian can afford health care services, but, you know, they're only, like, experts or something, so I'm sure they have no idea what they're talking about.
 
The WHO begs to disagree with your assertation that the average Indian can afford health care services, but, you know, they're only, like, experts or something, so I'm sure they have no idea what they're talking about.
have you gone to India and lived there to see how an average person gets medical treatment? WHO accumulates a lot of info from a variety of regions. As far as I know, the medical facilities in my region and beyond are adequate for an average wage earner.
 
have you gone to India and lived there to see how an average person gets medical treatment? WHO accumulates a lot of info from a variety of regions. As far as I know, the medical facilities in my region and beyond are adequate for an average wage earner.


No, he hasn't. That's why I said earlier that he's talking about things he doesn't understand.
 
wat? do you even job? The market is great if you do your homework. If you are an international though, you will come across a LOT of roadblocks especially when you ask companies to sponsor you. Aside from that, jobs where it is hitting saturation will obviously experience tough times--that's just simple economics.
What I said was for internationals (like most of the discussion before that) - mainly Indians either on student visas or H1Bs with a BS/BSE/etc equivalent.
 
Dear OP,

I think you should go for the UK route.

Think about it. Within 6 years, you will become a junior doctor. Heck, you will even have a shot at matching into US residencies (if you play your cards right).
There were so few US IMG's that attempted a US residency application from the UK that no data exists to support whether this is likely to be successful.
 
There were so few US IMG's that attempted a US residency application from the UK that no data exists to support whether this is likely to be successful.

Huh that's interesting…any idea why that is? Are they just happier with their own healthcare system?
 
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If you look at Chart 15 you will see that only 60 US IMG's who attended medical school in India matched. 139 did not. These stats would support the contention that attending medical school in the US is a far better option if working in the US is the desired outcome.
http://www.ecfmg.org/resources/NRMP...atch-International-Medical-Graduates-2014.pdf

Could you please explain this? I think I'm misunderstanding this…but are you saying only 199 applied total? That seems a bit weird because I thought the majority of residency apps were from India.
 
Huh that's interesting…any idea why that is? Are they just happier with their own healthcare system?
This was not reported.
All we know is that since fewer than 50 applied, the sample was too small to include as a separate point of analysis in Charting the Outcomes.
 
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Could you please explain this? I think I'm misunderstanding this…but are you saying only 199 applied total? That seems a bit weird because I thought the majority of residency apps were from India.
NRMP distinguishes between US IMG's and non-US IMG's.
From India there were 60/199 successful US IMG's.
There were 754/1961 successful non-US Indian IMG's.
 
buddy, insurance isn't needed in countries like India where if you fall down the stairs, the hospital/clinic is down the road and doesn't cost you your first born child lol. In terms of infrastructure; India is a land of diversity and extremes for some reason. You will come across some of the best hospitals and then you won't. It's the sad truth but in reality, it's regulation--they have the infrastructure for support.

ya, you just might end up with crippling sepsis instead.

There's probably 5 hospitals in all of India that would meet JCAHO certification in the US. The rest of them are terrible ****holes where you get fleeced and then dumped because you can do that in India.
 
There were so few US IMG's that attempted a US residency application from the UK that no data exists to support whether this is likely to be successful.

I wonder why.

May be this stat speaks for itself. May be few US nationals study medicine in the UK, and even fewer decide to come back. Just speculation at this point.
 
ya, you just might end up with crippling sepsis instead.

There's probably 5 hospitals in all of India that would meet JCAHO certification in the US. The rest of them are terrible ****holes where you get fleeced and then dumped because you can do that in India.
And therein lies the major issue that I initially was trying to address with quality of training- only the best state schools provide a decent education, because they are the only places that have the facilities with which to provide it. You can't have good health education without a functional health care system, and (despite what some have stated in this thread) the Indian health care system is widely regarded as highly dysfunctional, both with regard to access and affordability for those that are not members of the middle or upper class. Your training is largely limited by the system within which you train, which is why Indian graduates from the majority of schools face an uphill battle when compared with European and Israeli graduates, where the hospitals and health systems are generally of far higher quality. Here's the evidence for issues of medical training, and of poor health care quality and access, written by experts that live in the country and saw everything on the ground-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730274/#R28
http://www.imshealth.com/deployedfi.../Understanding_Healthcare_Access_in_India.pdf
http://www.iipa.org.in/New Folder/11-Kumar.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746298/
http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/in-rotten-health/

You don't need to visit to know that policy experts both in-country and abroad generally consider access to be terrible and services to be both inadequate and unaffordable by half the population, and that medical education in the country is a mess at all but the top schools. That is reason alone to avoid studying there, even if all things were considered equal. But, and this goes out to OP, things are not equal, not by a long shot. You're getting a lower quality education in a system that is completely different from the United States, which puts you at a massive disadvantage when it comes time to try and match in the US. Yeah, certain schools will carry some cachet with some PDs, but generally whether or not you are an IMG is a primary filter, specifically because training overseas is so variable. So go to school in the US if you want to practice here, or India if you want to practice there, but don't go there if you want to practice here because it'll hurt you a good deal in the long run.
 
ya, you just might end up with crippling sepsis instead.

There's probably 5 hospitals in all of India that would meet JCAHO certification in the US. The rest of them are terrible ****holes where you get fleeced and then dumped because you can do that in India.
wow...way to undermine a growing countries potential. Just for your information, I have had a family member die from this and the times have changed. As I said, there are extremes in terms of conditions available. But overall, for primary care issues and other simple surgeries, you really don't need insurance. It is doable without. There are 2 types of hospitals there: privates and government. The government ones can be terrible. The privates house really good conditions.
 
wow...way to undermine a growing countries potential. Just for your information, I have had a family member die from this and the times have changed. As I said, there are extremes in terms of conditions available. But overall, for primary care issues and other simple surgeries, you really don't need insurance. It is doable without. There are 2 types of hospitals there: privates and government. The government ones can be terrible. The privates house really good conditions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/o...-your-breath-in-india.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

Choice quote:

When we arrived, doctors infused him with steroids (and refused to provide further treatment until a $1,000 charge on my credit card went through).

You can't pull that **** off in a real country. The entire country is a joke and that article solidifies it.
 
If you look at Chart 15 you will see that only 60 US IMG's who attended medical school in India matched. 139 did not. These stats would support the contention that attending medical school in the US is a far better option if working in the US is the desired outcome.
http://www.ecfmg.org/resources/NRMP...atch-International-Medical-Graduates-2014.pdf

The graph only shows matching into first choice specialty. However, when you compare that to the US MD & DO who mostly match into their first choice, going to an Indian school is still far worse.

http://www.ecfmg.org/resources/NRMP...atch-International-Medical-Graduates-2014.pdf

(pg. iii)

"For purposes of this report, match success is defined as a match to the specialty of the applicant’s first-ranked program because that is assumed to be the specialty of choice. Because preliminary programs provide only one or two years of prerequisite training for entry into advanced specialty training, applicants who ranked a preliminary program first are considered not to have a preferred specialty. Lack of match success includes matching to another specialty as well as failure to match at all. No distinction was made based on whether applicants matched to their first, second, third, or lower program choice. Applicants who obtained positions in the Match Week Supplemental Offer and Acceptance Program® (SOAP®) were not included in the analyses."
 
The graph only shows matching into first choice specialty. However, when you compare that to the US MD & DO who mostly match into their first choice, going to an Indian school is still far worse.

http://www.ecfmg.org/resources/NRMP...atch-International-Medical-Graduates-2014.pdf

(pg. iii)

"For purposes of this report, match success is defined as a match to the specialty of the applicant’s first-ranked program because that is assumed to be the specialty of choice. Because preliminary programs provide only one or two years of prerequisite training for entry into advanced specialty training, applicants who ranked a preliminary program first are considered not to have a preferred specialty. Lack of match success includes matching to another specialty as well as failure to match at all. No distinction was made based on whether applicants matched to their first, second, third, or lower program choice. Applicants who obtained positions in the Match Week Supplemental Offer and Acceptance Program® (SOAP®) were not included in the analyses."
Yes...
 
You can't pull that **** off in a real country. The entire country is a joke and that article solidifies it.

Of course, but REAL countries have the government and insurance to pay the doctors and prevent hospitals from going bankrupt, they don't...

When you have corruption at every level in the government, you can't hope to have a decent healthcare system.
 
You can't pull that **** off in a real country. The entire country is a joke and that article solidifies it.

Because no other country in the world ever had to deal with corruption and infrastructure problems right? Yep, India, a country with history spanning thousands of years, is deemed a joke based on issues it's only recently been facing 🙄.
 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/o...-your-breath-in-india.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

Choice quote:



You can't pull that **** off in a real country. The entire country is a joke and that article solidifies it.
Of course, but REAL countries have the government and insurance to pay the doctors and prevent hospitals from going bankrupt, they don't...

When you have corruption at every level in the government, you can't hope to have a decent healthcare system.
Hopefully you will both keep your feelings of superiority and entitlement in check when dealing with patients and staff members who are not from "real countries"
 
The arrogance (or maybe ignorance?) displayed regarding foreign countries in pre-allo is a hoot. Yes America is great in many ways, but that doesn't mean every other country out there is a ****hole, be it third world or not.

Also I would like to see the list of real and fake countries some of you are using.
 
The arrogance (or maybe ignorance?) displayed regarding foreign countries in pre-allo is a hoot. Yes America is great in many ways, but that doesn't mean every other country out there is a ****hole, be it third world or not.

Also I would like to see the list of real and fake countries some of you are using.
Broseph, if your country isn't bombing weddings from the comfort of home, then it's not a real country.
 
Of course, but REAL countries have the government and insurance to pay the doctors and prevent hospitals from going bankrupt, they don't...

When you have corruption at every level in the government, you can't hope to have a decent healthcare system.


You do realize that by your definition, a large majority of the world is comprised of FAKE countries, right?
 
Hopefully you will both keep your feelings of superiority and entitlement in check when dealing with patients and staff members who are not from "real countries"

You do realize that by your definition, a large majority of the world is comprised of FAKE countries, right?

You do realize the REAL was sarcasm. Plus I'm Indian as well, I'd be insulting myself. And yes there is corruption and it should be fixed so the people can get the care they need.
 

your article should be sent to the EPA version of India dude. How is insurance going to help??? Obviously, they didn't even mention the cost of high dose drugs for that guy who got asthma. I don't even know why I am arguing at this point with someone who clearly likes to cite the new york times; next time you should quote a gallup poll and that one also comprised of 10 people 😉.