Med school sucks

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Darwinism

Darwinism

When in Rome
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Jus sayin
 
♫Everybody hates medical school sometime♫
♫Something in the syllabus just told me, my sometime is now♫
 
heh
 
Well I will admit that all the mandatory group sessions are draining my life essence.
 
I agree. Although I'd much rather be doing this than stressing out about finding consistent work like half of my HS / college buddies.....
 
Brewmeister said:
I agree. Although I'd much rather be doing this than stressing out about finding consistent work like half of my HS / college buddies.....
Click to expand...

This deserves repeating. Med school > living on someone's couch delivering pizza with your bachelor's degree.
 
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Daedra22 said:
This deserves repeating. Med school > living on someone's couch delivering pizza with your bachelor's degree.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. But...


What about making $110,000/year with 2 assistants in a 30th floor high rise in coastal California. (Bachelor's degree in Economics)

Or what about his wife, who makes $40,000/year working at home writing young adult novels for Random House? (Bachelor's degree in Literature)

What about making $80,000/year working 40 hours a week working for a defense contractor (Master's degree in Electrical Engineering)

Or what about his wife, who makes $50,000/year working 40 hours/week as a social worker for the VA hospital system (Master's degree in Social Work)

What about making $80,000/year working 50 hour a week for an EMR company, and you are #2 in the company (Master's degree in Computer Science)

What about making $40,000/year working 50-60 hours/week as a postdoc, researching spinal cord regeneration (PhD in Electrical Engineering)

What about making $40,000/year+company shares working 50-60 hours/week as part of small start up company, working on Ghost in the Shell like prosthetic arms and legs with PhD candidates from JHU (PhD in Bioengeering)


These are a list of my closest friends from college. They're still employed in this economy, none of them work weekends, all have fantastic lives.
 
thepoopologist said:
Yes, I agree. But...


What about making $110,000/year with 2 assistants in a 30th floor high rise in coastal California. (Bachelor's degree in Economics)

Or what about his wife, who makes $40,000/year working at home writing young adult novels for Random House? (Bachelor's degree in Literature)

What about making $80,000/year working 40 hours a week working for a defense contractor (Master's degree in Electrical Engineering)

Or what about his wife, who makes $50,000/year working 40 hours/week as a social worker for the VA hospital system (Master's degree in Social Work)

What about making $80,000/year working 50 hour a week for an EMR company, and you are #2 in the company (Master's degree in Computer Science)

What about making $40,000/year working 50-60 hours/week as a postdoc, researching spinal cord regeneration (PhD in Electrical Engineering)

What about making $40,000/year+company shares working 50-60 hours/week as part of small start up company, working on Ghost in the Shell like prosthetic arms and legs with PhD candidates from JHU (PhD in Bioengeering)


These are a list of my closest friends from college. They're still employed in this economy, none of them work weekends, all have fantastic lives.
Click to expand...

Must admit, wasn't sure if you were giving "this sucks" examples or "this is pretty good" examples when I started your post.

I could pass medical school without working weekends if I wanted. And probably pass the boards. Wouldn't land the greatest specialty but there are huge gaps in effort input for the 90th and 10th percentile in medical school.

I enjoy my life as a medical student, although admitted I wish I had more free time. This is why I likely won't be doing surgery! 🙂
 
thepoopologist said:
Yes, I agree. But...


What about making $110,000/year with 2 assistants in a 30th floor high rise in coastal California. (Bachelor's degree in Economics)

Or what about his wife, who makes $40,000/year working at home writing young adult novels for Random House? (Bachelor's degree in Literature)

What about making $80,000/year working 40 hours a week working for a defense contractor (Master's degree in Electrical Engineering)

Or what about his wife, who makes $50,000/year working 40 hours/week as a social worker for the VA hospital system (Master's degree in Social Work)

What about making $80,000/year working 50 hour a week for an EMR company, and you are #2 in the company (Master's degree in Computer Science)

What about making $40,000/year working 50-60 hours/week as a postdoc, researching spinal cord regeneration (PhD in Electrical Engineering)

What about making $40,000/year+company shares working 50-60 hours/week as part of small start up company, working on Ghost in the Shell like prosthetic arms and legs with PhD candidates from JHU (PhD in Bioengeering)


These are a list of my closest friends from college. They're still employed in this economy, none of them work weekends, all have fantastic lives.
Click to expand...

Most of my friends from college are still working at restaurants or have dead-end jobs making less than $40k. They're looking for better, but it's not that easy to come across really good jobs. It may suck half the time, but I feel very lucky to be in medical school.
 
Rocher said:
Most of my friends from college are still working at restaurants or have dead-end jobs making less than $40k. They're looking for better, but it's not that easy to come across really good jobs. It may suck half the time, but I feel very lucky to be in medical school.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I suppose it boils down to a matter of perspective.
 
thepoopologist said:
Fair enough. I suppose it boils down to a matter of perspective.
Click to expand...

For sure. But in all fairness, after all of this ****, many of us are going to be pulling significantly more than the people you listed earlier -- definitely a matter of perspective as far as whether the time/effort "sacrifice" is worth it for the profession.
 
exi said:
For sure. But in all fairness, after all of this ****, many of us are going to be pulling significantly more than the people you listed earlier -- definitely a matter of perspective as far as whether the time/effort "sacrifice" is worth it for the profession.
Click to expand...

Basically,

Primary care is out of the question.
 
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Med school is better than residency. I miss med school. Can I go back now?

Sure I get paid, but not much more than I got in loans in med school. And I work more.

I wish I had appreciated how amazing it was to create my own schedule the MAJORITY of the time. How nice it was to be my own boss. How often the prospect of golden weekends came around (probably at least once a month between post-test weekends, weekends between rotations, and just true golden weekends during a rotation.) How medical school was my chance to make residency a little easier by really learning the material, and it was my opportunity to just learn for the sake of learning without losing sleep over fear of hurting patients.

Oh and that doesn't even count the glory that is 4th year. Where you hardly work at all, still learn for the sake of learning. When you get the exciting thrill of applying to residency, which is a very complimentary process (seriously, way better than applying for med school, programs really stroke your ego - even average applicants.) And of course, the awesomeness that was 2.5 months completely off at the end of 4th year.

Yeah....I'll trade you guys.
 
I think about it like this: you are learning about the smartest and probably the most complicated organism in the world; us.
Look at medical school as a higher power of learning and think about the respect you would get. During the times such as the Renaissance, it was a privilege because of money and how much you needed to go. Med school is still expensive, but now things are different and it's easier, it takes a crap load of time but you are helping yourself and others. That's my opinion and I hope you find that it's not all that bad. A couple years of suffering is better than a whole lifetime.
 
alwaysaangel said:
Med school is better than residency. I miss med school. Can I go back now?

Sure I get paid, but not much more than I got in loans in med school. And I work more.

I wish I had appreciated how amazing it was to create my own schedule the MAJORITY of the time. How nice it was to be my own boss. How often the prospect of golden weekends came around (probably at least once a month between post-test weekends, weekends between rotations, and just true golden weekends during a rotation.) How medical school was my chance to make residency a little easier by really learning the material, and it was my opportunity to just learn for the sake of learning without losing sleep over fear of hurting patients.

Oh and that doesn't even count the glory that is 4th year. Where you hardly work at all, still learn for the sake of learning. When you get the exciting thrill of applying to residency, which is a very complimentary process (seriously, way better than applying for med school, programs really stroke your ego - even average applicants.) And of course, the awesomeness that was 2.5 months completely off at the end of 4th year.

Yeah....I'll trade you guys.
Click to expand...

I have worked 100 hours weeks, id hands talk to people, do work, do procedures etc for 100 hours...than sit in a silent library for 60 hours memorizing minutia.

Haven't made it to 3rd/4th year, maybe that is better than residency, but the first 2 years suck, especially if you hate libraries, silence, and dry memorization.

Just sayin...
 
Why study in a library?

I study in my bedroom cause I can do it in my underwear.
 
Morsetlis said:
Why study in a library?

I study in my bedroom cause I can do it in my underwear.
Click to expand...

I am studying in my underwear at this very moment 😀 (in my bedroom in case it wasn't clear)
 
do what you have to do, until you can do what you want to do. 🙂
 
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thepoopologist said:
Yes, I agree. But...


What about making $110,000/year with 2 assistants in a 30th floor high rise in coastal California. (Bachelor's degree in Economics)

Or what about his wife, who makes $40,000/year working at home writing young adult novels for Random House? (Bachelor's degree in Literature)

What about making $80,000/year working 40 hours a week working for a defense contractor (Master's degree in Electrical Engineering)

Or what about his wife, who makes $50,000/year working 40 hours/week as a social worker for the VA hospital system (Master's degree in Social Work)

What about making $80,000/year working 50 hour a week for an EMR company, and you are #2 in the company (Master's degree in Computer Science)

What about making $40,000/year working 50-60 hours/week as a postdoc, researching spinal cord regeneration (PhD in Electrical Engineering)

What about making $40,000/year+company shares working 50-60 hours/week as part of small start up company, working on Ghost in the Shell like prosthetic arms and legs with PhD candidates from JHU (PhD in Bioengeering)


These are a list of my closest friends from college. They're still employed in this economy, none of them work weekends, all have fantastic lives.
Click to expand...

Yea, and I'm a surgical intern who works most weekends and earns closer to the lower end of the numbers you mention, and I wouldn't trade with any of the above. Mind you, I only get to operate a few times a month, and the work I do is still a better alternative (for me anyways).

Plus, regarding the economy comment, any one of these people can lose their job, and for those couples you mentioned, many of them will probably have a mortgage and other routine expenses that get jacked up when that happens (ie when a person gets laid off). That's the uncertainty of most of these jobs you list.
 
alwaysaangel said:
Med school is better than residency. I miss med school. Can I go back now?

Sure I get paid, but not much more than I got in loans in med school. And I work more.

I wish I had appreciated how amazing it was to create my own schedule the MAJORITY of the time. How nice it was to be my own boss. How often the prospect of golden weekends came around (probably at least once a month between post-test weekends, weekends between rotations, and just true golden weekends during a rotation.) How medical school was my chance to make residency a little easier by really learning the material, and it was my opportunity to just learn for the sake of learning without losing sleep over fear of hurting patients.

Oh and that doesn't even count the glory that is 4th year. Where you hardly work at all, still learn for the sake of learning. When you get the exciting thrill of applying to residency, which is a very complimentary process (seriously, way better than applying for med school, programs really stroke your ego - even average applicants.) And of course, the awesomeness that was 2.5 months completely off at the end of 4th year.

Yeah....I'll trade you guys.
Click to expand...

Wow... interesting. While I didn't hate med school and actually enjoyed everything you list above, I'm very glad to be done. My longer hours at the hospital are much more enjoyable than my shorter hours as a student. All of a sudden I am a true part of the team, and I get to deliver healthcare. Sure it's more responsibility, but I don't feel like I waste much time.
 
I'm sure residency is harder but for some of us extroverts, it may be more enjoyable.

I don't think my workload will change too significantly (other than losing the independence of schedule creation). ~60 hrs a week is possible in lots of specialties (not surgery!).

With that said, I do realize I get TONS of breaks during medical school to go workout, watch some TV show or do whatever, although the workload is constant.
 
lazymed said:
Wow... interesting. While I didn't hate med school and actually enjoyed everything you list above, I'm very glad to be done. My longer hours at the hospital are much more enjoyable than my shorter hours as a student. All of a sudden I am a true part of the team, and I get to deliver healthcare. Sure it's more responsibility, but I don't feel like I waste much time.
Click to expand...

It was more for emphasis. I mean some days I wouldn't mind going back, but then I'd just have to do residency again 😛

I was mostly just trying to point out somethings they probably don't really think about. Sure sitting around studying all day sucks sometimes, but the freedom you have 1st and 2nd year is something you'll never have again in life unless you work part-time or per diem. It would be so easy to really work on yourself, get into shape, teach yourself better study skills/focus to have more free time, learn a new hobby...basically you can do almost anything first and second year. Its just easier to see some of the positives now that I'm on the other side, so I was trying to point them out.
 
Jack is Back said:
I don't think my workload will change too significantly (other than losing the independence of schedule creation). ~60 hrs a week is possible in lots of specialties (not surgery!).
Click to expand...
After residency sure, but not in residency. I didn't say working as a doctor sucked.

Most people will do 6 days per week, 12-14 hours a day at least some (if not most) of their residency. Then you're still expected to go home and read and learn something, its not like the sitting around studying trying to memorize stuff stops. You will forever be expected to be reading and learning in medicine.

With that said, I do realize I get TONS of breaks during medical school to go workout, watch some TV show or do whatever, although the workload is constant.
Click to expand...
I think by definition that means the workload isn't constant....
 
There are so many things that suck much more than med school.

I don't really mind chilling in my room all day watching lectures and studying material that is pretty interesting for the most part.

If I weren't in med school, I'd probably be unemployed or working some crappy job for near minimum wage like some of my friends with college degrees.

Consider yourself very lucky OP.
 
thepoopologist said:
Yes, I agree. But...


What about making $110,000/year with 2 assistants in a 30th floor high rise in coastal California. (Bachelor's degree in Economics)

Or what about his wife, who makes $40,000/year working at home writing young adult novels for Random House? (Bachelor's degree in Literature)

What about making $80,000/year working 40 hours a week working for a defense contractor (Master's degree in Electrical Engineering)

Or what about his wife, who makes $50,000/year working 40 hours/week as a social worker for the VA hospital system (Master's degree in Social Work)

What about making $80,000/year working 50 hour a week for an EMR company, and you are #2 in the company (Master's degree in Computer Science)

What about making $40,000/year working 50-60 hours/week as a postdoc, researching spinal cord regeneration (PhD in Electrical Engineering)

What about making $40,000/year+company shares working 50-60 hours/week as part of small start up company, working on Ghost in the Shell like prosthetic arms and legs with PhD candidates from JHU (PhD in Bioengeering)


These are a list of my closest friends from college. They're still employed in this economy, none of them work weekends, all have fantastic lives.
Click to expand...


I don't understand this. These are all examples of people who make similar money to residents (minus the 100k and 80k examples) and have zero job security....
 
alwaysaangel said:
After residency sure, but not in residency. I didn't say working as a doctor sucked.

Most people will do 6 days per week, 12-14 hours a day at least some (if not most) of their residency. Then you're still expected to go home and read and learn something, its not like the sitting around studying trying to memorize stuff stops. You will forever be expected to be reading and learning in medicine.


I think by definition that means the workload isn't constant....
Click to expand...

I didn't mean that I work non-stop, just that I'm never done with work. So if I work a bit more then my grades may go up 3-5% and if I work a bit less, they may go down 3-5%. Yes there are breaks but there is always more to do. I've had demanding jobs before medical school, so I undetstand what strings of challenging 12 hr days are like with little free time.
 
Basically, the conclusion is that medical students have it pretty good compared to most but definitely not all professions.
 
alwaysaangel said:
Med school is better than residency. I miss med school. Can I go back now?

Sure I get paid, but not much more than I got in loans in med school. And I work more.

I wish I had appreciated how amazing it was to create my own schedule the MAJORITY of the time. How nice it was to be my own boss. How often the prospect of golden weekends came around (probably at least once a month between post-test weekends, weekends between rotations, and just true golden weekends during a rotation.) How medical school was my chance to make residency a little easier by really learning the material, and it was my opportunity to just learn for the sake of learning without losing sleep over fear of hurting patients.

Oh and that doesn't even count the glory that is 4th year. Where you hardly work at all, still learn for the sake of learning. When you get the exciting thrill of applying to residency, which is a very complimentary process (seriously, way better than applying for med school, programs really stroke your ego - even average applicants.) And of course, the awesomeness that was 2.5 months completely off at the end of 4th year.

Yeah....I'll trade you guys.
Click to expand...

What specialty?
 
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exi said:
What specialty?
Click to expand...

EM. My residency really isn't that bad. But I can appreciate a lot of the things I had in med school that I no longer have.
 
alwaysaangel said:
EM. My residency really isn't that bad. But I can appreciate a lot of the things I had in med school that I no longer have.
Click to expand...

I spoke with an EM resident recently who told me that her time spent on other services outside the ED, especially during intern year, made her appreciate her career choice that much more -- averaging ~60 hours weekly, etc. Has that been your experience at all?

EM is on my list, so I'm curious. I'm an M3.
 
thepoopologist said:
Basically,

Primary care is out of the question.
Click to expand...

I'm a 3rd year FM resident looking for jobs. Even being in primary care, being offered a salary similar to that poster's friends (~ $80K/year) is really really really low.

Being offered anything less than $120K/year, in any field that takes care of adults, is, as one of my attendings called it, "insulting." The typical job offers for adult primary care that I've seen have been in the $130-140K range, with bonuses, loan repayment, etc. on top of that.

Just to put it all in perspective.
 
Compared to a real world job, med school (at least first year) is vacation for me. It's basically part-time work, at home, whenever you want. Lots of free time, low stress, and flexibility, and that is compared to only a 40-hour consulting job. Appreciate what you have.
 
smq123 said:
I'm a 3rd year FM resident looking for jobs. Even being in primary care, being offered a salary similar to that poster's friends (~ $80K/year) is really really really low.

Being offered anything less than $120K/year, in any field that takes care of adults, is, as one of my attendings called it, "insulting." The typical job offers for adult primary care that I've seen have been in the $130-140K range, with bonuses, loan repayment, etc. on top of that.

Just to put it all in perspective.
Click to expand...

That poster would be me. My friends are making that money debt free, and when they graduated college 7 years ago, those salaries (aside from my PhD friends) were all $55-65,000. There's a lot of catching up to do at $130,000/year with $300,000 of debt.

For the most part I don't mind medicine and given the circumstances I'm fairly satisfied but MAN!
 
thepoopologist said:
That poster would be me. My friends are making that money debt free, and when they graduated college 7 years ago, those salaries (aside from my PhD friends) were all $55-65,000. There's a lot of catching up to do at $130,000/year with $300,000 of debt.

For the most part I don't mind medicine and given the circumstances I'm fairly satisfied but MAN!
Click to expand...

Many primary care places will offer you that salary ($130K is pretty typical across the country) ON TOP of loan repayment assistance. There are a lot of ways to get your loans paid if you're primary care, and still make a very decent salary.

My point is, don't write off primary care THAT easily. If you do FM/IM, you should expect to get paid in the 6 figures. (Peds primary care is a different story, but you probably already knew that.) Plus the flexibility is pretty nice. If you want to do wound care, with no call and no weekends, you can. If you want to be a hospitalist, with every other week off, you can. If you want to do urgent care only, you can.

I hear what you're saying about your friends making a lot of money out of the gate while you feel like your life is stagnating. I definitely hear what you're saying, and had a lot of the same feelings a few years ago. That being said, I do enjoy medicine. The mix of actually taking care of people at their worst moments, plus the intellectual stimulation of caring for patients, appeals to me. Much more than writing young adult novels or writing EMR software.

(That being said, my friends and I have batted around the idea of marketing our own EMR software. Most EMR software is written by programmers, not by physicians or nurses, but it SHOULD be. You ever try explaining to tech support why their list of medications is incomplete and out of date?)
 
Morsetlis said:
Why study in a library?

I study in my bedroom cause I can do it in my underwear.
Click to expand...

dude, you should totally just study in your underwear in the library. And see how people react.
 
Compared to a combat deployment to Iraq during the surge, medical school is ridiculously awesome. Pop quizzes, extensive readings and exams don't quite match up to having a truck blown out from underneath you, pulling buddies out of burning vehicles, or waking up to the sound of mortars landing meters from your rack. Or being told you're not going home when you planned, that you're staying an extra 90 days during the most violent part of the war.

Just sayin...
 
Wolverines83 said:
Compared to a combat deployment to Iraq during the surge, medical school is ridiculously awesome. Pop quizzes, extensive readings and exams don't quite match up to having a truck blown out from underneath you, pulling buddies out of burning vehicles, or waking up to the sound of mortars landing meters from your rack. Or being told you're not going home when you planned, that you're staying an extra 90 days during the most violent part of the war.

Just sayin...
Click to expand...
Dude, I think everything else in the world is ridiculously awesome compared to that.
 
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