Med schools and Memorization

[tanny]

Do all med school expect students to memorize like 90% of the time? Or are there some med school that emphasize understanding than memorization. Then what schools if any?

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[ChubbyChaser]

Do all med school expect students to memorize like 90% of the time? Or are there some med school that emphasize understanding than memorization. Then what schools if any?

I would think it would be a mixture of understanding and memorization everywhere.

I know for me, I find it near impossible to memorize a random set of facts if I dont understand the underlying concepts first. What good are a bunch of facts if you dont understand how to use and apply them?

 

[mmmcdowe]

Do all med school expect students to memorize like 90% of the time? Or are there some med school that emphasize understanding than memorization. Then what schools if any?

An emphasis on memorization for the purpose of understanding. Rote memorization went out with the formation of John's Hopkins. Medical schools want you to be able to think of something using underlying facts, and then jump to the conclusions. Basically they give you as much knowledge that you need in order to be able to make the conclusions, and then focus as much on problem solving and analyisis. Some schools take this further than others, with problem based classes or even whole chunks of material usually taught in lectures converted into problem based or small group discussion based learning.

 

[tanny]

Which Schools?

 

[mmmcdowe]

The reason it takes four years is just because even the minimal data is an enormous amount!

Anyways, schools like Case Western, Pittsburgh, Cornell (or brown I forget), NYU, Harvard, U of M, etc etc. The "cutting edge" schools usually do, Duke is an exception and U of M is probably a bit slow. I haven't been to every school so I can't tell you. Its the high fashion of schools looking to be cutting edge, so you are more likely to find it in the top 20 programs.

 

[beachblonde]

An emphasis on memorization for the purpose of understanding. Rote memorization went out with the formation of John's Hopkins. Medical schools want you to be able to think of something using underlying facts, and then jump to the conclusions. Basically they give you as much knowledge that you need in order to be able to make the conclusions, and then focus as much on problem solving and analyisis. Some schools take this further than others, with problem based classes or even whole chunks of material usually taught in lectures converted into problem based or small group discussion based learning.

Ahh! His name was Johns! No apostrophe! If they see that they will reject you! That's a huge pet peeve of Hopkins students/alumni.

But OP, sorry to say, but there's a ton of memorization involved in med school. People can talk about "understanding" as much as they want, but the truth of the matter is that when it comes to some classes you have to memorize. Straight up memorize the differences between certain TCAs versus SSRIs and every other antidepressant, or where the beta adrenergic receptors are located and their actions. The first week they'll say "know the amino acids." And just have to sit down and memorize the R-groups. There's no getting around it.

 

[Lukkie]

everyone i talked to in med school already says its like 95% memorization

 

[tanny]

Ahh! His name was Johns! No apostrophe! If they see that they will reject you! That's a huge pet peeve of Hopkins students/alumni.

But OP, sorry to say, but there's a ton of memorization involved in med school. People can talk about "understanding" as much as they want, but the truth of the matter is that when it comes to some classes you have to memorize. Straight up memorize the differences between certain TCAs versus SSRIs and every other antidepressant, or where the beta adrenergic receptors are located and their actions. The first week they'll say "know the amino acids." And just have to sit down and memorize the R-groups. There's no getting around it.

I understand this but there has to be some schools that are worse than others.

 

[mmmcdowe]

There is no happy school in the sky where you don't have to memorize things, sorry. All schools have to teach all of the same things, in the end you will memeorize the same amount at any school. The only diff is some schools squeeze it into a shorter time, or some schools do non lecture type memorization like self study.

 

[MilkmanAl]

everyone i talked to in med school already says its like 95% memorization

I wouldn't say it's that much, but there's definitely a hell of a lot of rote memorization, especially in gross anatomy (which might creep up towards that 95% mark). Biochem and cell bio are lots easier if you understand what's going on in, say, a signaling pathway than if you just remember all the steps.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Ahh! His name was Johns! No apostrophe! If they see that they will reject you! That's a huge pet peeve of Hopkins students/alumni.

But OP, sorry to say, but there's a ton of memorization involved in med school. People can talk about "understanding" as much as they want, but the truth of the matter is that when it comes to some classes you have to memorize. Straight up memorize the differences between certain TCAs versus SSRIs and every other antidepressant, or where the beta adrenergic receptors are located and their actions. The first week they'll say "know the amino acids." And just have to sit down and memorize the R-groups. There's no getting around it.

Try first day, and the one-letter abbreviations, without even going through them in class. But you get used to it. Here's a tip that helped me, tryptophan is present in turkey, and the one letter abbreviation is W. So think, Wild Turkey!

But all the bitching about memorization is over-blown. Yeah there's a ton of memorization in anatomy, what else did you think it'd be? But to state that "med school is nothing but memorizing a bunch of useless facts" is ******ed. Maybe 1/4 of the exam questions are based on rote memorization, with the rest requiring application of the copious amounts of information that you spent the previous two weeks cramming into your skull.

 

[Perrotfish]

Do all med school expect students to memorize like 90% of the time? Or are there some med school that emphasize understanding than memorization. Then what schools if any

1) It's about 95% rote memorization at pretty much any school. Sorry

2) There aren't signifcant difference between schools, or at least there shouldn't be. The thing that you need to understand about medical school is that the first two years (the years where your sitting in classrooms taking tests) is basically a 2 year prep course for a big standardized exam called the USMLE Step I, that you take at the end of your second year. The emphasis on this test makes the actual grades you recieve in your first two years almost worthless in terms of your residency applications (which is why some schools have stopped giving out grades for those years all together).

The test's emphasis on memorized factoids gives your school almost no freedom to do something like emphasizing concepts over memorization. Actually most schools even use a standardized exam (known as a Shelf exam) as their final exam for their individual classes, just to make sure they're sufficiently teaching to the test. So, yeah, lots of memorization. Sorry.

 

[pianola]

I understand this but there has to be some schools that are worse than others.

Not really. This isn't like choosing a major.

By and large, all med students have to know the same stuff (for Step 1, for example.) And there are a lot of details to know.

One way or another you will have to memorize the details. It's pretty much up to you to figure out how you learn best.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Let me give you a common example of what you get out of medical school. So your with a patient, and you notice that the patient has high glucose levels in the blood, and also has high phospate levels, but is not diabetic. What you would infer from this is there is something wrong with the enzymes responsible with regulating glucose into glucose 6 phosphate, which keeps it within the cells. You might not need to remember the exact names of the phosphorylases and kinases involved in glucose conversion to pyruvate, but you had better know the trends and relations, which requires you to memorize the details.

 

[MrBurns10]

The "cutting edge" schools usually do, Duke is an exception and U of M is probably a bit slow.

What do you mean by that? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it seems to be the opposite...Duke actually cuts out some of the stuff that's more rote memorization than necessary since the students do 18 months of info in about 12.

 

[MossPoh]

Try first day, and the one-letter abbreviations, without even going through them in class. But you get used to it. Here's a tip that helped me, tryptophan is present in turkey, and the one letter abbreviation is W. So think, Wild Turkey!

.

That is my current biochem class in undergrad. So far, doesn't seem too bad. We had to be able to draw them all out and just not recognize them as well.

 

[DrJD]

I think that while understanding is important, I think that there is a certain amount of memorization that allows you to understand these concepts. Then, there is a little bit more memorization that will help you to do well on the tests!

 

[tanny]

Not really. This isn't like choosing a major.

By and large, all med students have to know the same stuff (for Step 1, for example.) And there are a lot of details to know.

One way or another you will have to memorize the details. It's pretty much up to you to figure out how you learn best.

Some schools actually try to decrease the amount of lectures and have more discussions and use the class time to solve problems in a real clinical situation.This month I attended an osteopathic school and one of the member of the admission committee said this. However, I want to attend an allopathic school so that why I am asking this question. I want a balance not just memorization.

 

[AlanAlanine]

Some schools actually try to decrease the amount of lectures and have more discussions and use the class time to solve problems in a real clinical situation.This month I attended an osteopathic school and one of the member of the admission committee said this. However, I want to attend an allopathic school so that why I am asking this question. I want a balance not just memorization.

this is coming from the person who thought it was possible to get a 46 on the MCAT

 

[scotties123]

take it from someone IN med school. You have to memorize everything. EVERYTHING. and understanding of the concept is also required. For example, for biochem, we had to MEMORIZE all of the enzymes involved in TCA, glycolysis, Gluconeogenesis, etc etc and what their main role is. Then, we had to be able to use what we memorized to UNDERSTAND that a defect in enzyme A will lead to pathways Q, R, S, T being defective. Understanding comes after memorization.

 

[tanny]

take it from someone IN med school. You have to memorize everything. EVERYTHING. and understanding of the concept is also required. For example, for biochem, we had to MEMORIZE all of the enzymes involved in TCA, glycolysis, Gluconeogenesis, etc etc and what their main role is. Then, we had to be able to use what we memorized to UNDERSTAND that a defect in enzyme A will lead to pathways Q, R, S, T being defective. Understanding comes after memorization.

As long as memorization leads to understanding.

 

[Depakote]

Are you responsible for retaining most details? yes.

Are there better ways to do this than rote memorization? yes.

most schools will present you with the information and leave the learning to you. Personally, I find structured small group activities and PBL a horribly inefficient way to study given the volume of material covered in med school. Not to say this doesn't work for many people.

Rather than sitting down with a list of things and just trying to memorize it, I prefer to review the material in context a few times (and from multiple sources). By the time I've done this, I've found that the key points and important details have stuck. Now in anatomy, this doesn't work as well, but you can still go through and test yourself by reviewing innervations, blood vessles, etc for structures. By reviewing the structures in context you'll get a better understanding of where they are and what they do. Since this is how they test, I found it to be what worked for me.

 

[tanny]

Are you responsible for retaining most details? yes.

Are there better ways to do this than rote memorization? yes.

most schools will present you with the information and leave the learning to you. Personally, I find structured small group activities and PBL a horribly inefficient way to study given the volume of material covered in med school. Not to say this doesn't work for many people.

Rather than sitting down with a list of things and just trying to memorize it, I prefer to review the material in context a few times (and from multiple sources). By the time I've done this, I've found that the key points and important details have stuck. Now in anatomy, this doesn't work as well, but you can still go through and test yourself by reviewing innervations, blood vessles, etc for structures. By reviewing the structures in context you'll get a better understanding of where they are and what they do. Since this is how they test, I found it to be what worked for me.

To me, class group discussion is only effective when you really know the material before it is discussed.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Good luck doing that in med school.

 

[newtonsfriend]

I went to a Medical school admissions board convention over the summer and this topic was brought up. The board members told the audience that the majority of southern schools including Arkansas to Florida and states in between have primarily in the past focused a lot on memorization and a little application. They told us these medical schools plan to make it 70% applying and 30% pure memorization. I don't know if there is going to happen now or what.

 

[NTF]

I think memorization is unfortunately the task that you'll have to make peace with. Every doctor I've spoken with never complained about M1 and M2 being difficult in terms of process or application. They complained about the difficulty of managing the sheer volumes of information that you have to consume.

The best analogy I was given was this:

"Imagine trying to drink from a fire hose."

 

[TMP-SMX]

If I would have known last year that BRS was so great I wouldn't have done so horribly in Biochem or Anatomy. I never used textbooks until this year. Let's just say the results are very different. Though I did pretty well last year without textbooks in all classes but those two. So it's a problem when the class notes aren't that great and it's a tougher subject.

 

[MilkmanAl]

"Imagine trying to drink from a fire hose."

You'll hear this analogy so many times during orientation that you'll want to actually try doing it.

If I would have known last year that BRS was so great I wouldn't have done so horribly in Biochem or Anatomy. I never used textbooks until this year.

Don't confuse textbooks with review books. Textbooks are crap and a huge waste of your time. Review books are the shizzle.

 

[Jolie South]

You'll hear this analogy so many times during orientation that you'll want to actually try doing it.

Don't confuse textbooks with review books. Textbooks are crap and a huge waste of your time. Review books are the shizzle.

I actually like textbooks. I don't use them to memorize though. Just to put things in context and gain a deeper understanding. Review books (the ones I've seen) don't have enough detail for my taste.

 

[Jolie South]

Rather than sitting down with a list of things and just trying to memorize it, I prefer to review the material in context a few times (and from multiple sources). By the time I've done this, I've found that the key points and important details have stuck. Now in anatomy, this doesn't work as well, but you can still go through and test yourself by reviewing innervations, blood vessles, etc for structures. By reviewing the structures in context you'll get a better understanding of where they are and what they do. Since this is how they test, I found it to be what worked for me.

I use the same method. The more sources I have for hearing the material the better. I also make computerized flashcards to pound the important stuff in and then go back to the texts to learn more in detail.

I agree about anatomy. I do my homework to learn innervations, functions, and high yield clinical correlations, but really do most of my learning in the lab. You won't be tested on the pretty Netter's/Gray's cartoons, so you might as well go and spend some quality time with your cadaver.

 

[Perrotfish]

Originally Posted by tanny
Some schools actually try to decrease the amount of lectures and have more discussions and use the class time to solve problems in a real clinical situation.This month I attended an osteopathic school and one of the member of the admission committee said this. However, I want to attend an allopathic school so that why I am asking this question. I want a balance not just memorization

If that Osteopathic school said that there are two possibilities

1) they're lying.

Happens a lot. Everyone wants to make their school look better than it really is.

2) You should avoid that school like the plague.

Like I said, the first half of medical school is basically a 2 year prep course for an 8 hour standardized exam. That exam is basically a parade of memorized factoids. If your school actually 'emphasizes group discussions' what that means is that they've dumped a significant amount of trendy, mandatory attendance, PBLish BS on top of the coursework you actually need to get through to pass the exam. I could describe it for you but why would I when someone else has already done it so well. My school has a very small amount of this sort of thing (once a month, maybe, to break up the monotony) and I promise you that that's more than enough.

 

[Textuality]

It differs a lot from instructor to instructor too. Although I'd say all in all I'm pretty happy with UPenn. We didn't have to memorize all the enzymes for biochemistry, rather, we got a big "cheat sheet" with all the relevant pathways and our exam was mostly clinical questions that required us to predict what would happen if certain enzyme went bonkers, lol. A majority of our classes (and exams) do emphasize concepts and clinical correlates, BUT you still have a lot of memorizing to do because you do have to learn the jargon and proper names for things! For example, the anatomy practicals.

 

[goldenwest]

Imagine understanding the grammar, alphabet, and punctuation of a foreign language but not knowing what the words mean. Why would anyone want a medical school that will teach you the information you'll need for the rest of your career like that?