Med students have it easier...?

[NonTradMed]

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I'm wondering if anyone else have been experiencing this phenonemon as a med student.

I had to struggle to get into med school. I'm not one of those "yikes-I-have-five-full-rides-to-med-school-which-one-should-I-choose" types. I had a hard time getting into med school (although probably no harder than many other med students). I had to retake the MCAT after it expired, and quit my job to study for it and take bio classes, and I had to apply to 20+ schools for the hope of a handful of interviews and maybe an acceptance or two. I don't think I had it rougher than any other premed, but I always thought it was a pretty rough application process. And once I got in, it's been a rough semester, mainly becaues I feel like I'm drowning in coursework and (I feel) I'm always in danger of failing.

But then, I feel like an idiot when people tell me that psychology and vet schools are harder to get into than medicine, that DPT and dental students have it rougher than med students because they have a heavier workload.

Yikes, does that mean that med school is the 'easier' choice then? Does anyone get this a lot? That people tell you, "Don't worry, you may think med school is hard, but tons of students have it much rougher than you". It makes me feel worse since I had a hard time getting in and (now) staying in.

So first semester of med school is almost over and I'm feeling like I've been run over by a big truck. There's no doubt in my mind that it's an intense few years for me.

However, am I just thinking in a very narrow realm here? Medicine has consumed my life these past year and a half. I dont' have time to talk with students from other professions and ask them how their programs compare, or how hard it was to get into the program/what sacrifices they had to make for it. I'm wondering what other people think their med school program as compared to other professional training....is it true that med school is pretty laid back as compared to other professions? Are we all a bunch of whiners (or maybe just me?)? 😀

 

[Bertelman]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I heard the same stuff when I was a Pre-Med. "You need a 4.0 to get into PA school." (insert Vet school, etc.) I don't know about that podiatry reference, though. I had a buddy get accepted to podiatry school after the realizatioon he wouldn't be accepted to med school.

Here's how I look at it. Where are these 4.0 marks for PA school comin gfrom? Top universities, good state schools or community colleges? Does it really matter now? You're in med school, and I can guarantee that for the first three years, few other students in the country will be working as hard as you. And few will have absorbed as much knowledge as an MD upon graduation. Then there's residency, of course.

This leads to my conclusion that, when all is said and done, 7-10 years from now, you will have completed one of the most difficult educations in the U.S. Does comparison to your peers matter?

 

[Law2Doc]

But then, I feel like an idiot when people tell me that psychology and vet schools are harder to get into than medicine,

Vet schools are are hard to get into because there are so negligibly few of them. Scarcity breeds competition.
And all the dental students I've known (none of whom failed out) seem to make it out drinking and to more parties than any med students I've ever come across, so I doubt the intensity is quite the same. (but admittedly this is anecdotal)
But best to keep your eyes on your own plate. If you are happy with your decision, then let them be happy with and brag about theirs.

 

[yellowcat322]

That's strange. I have the opposite experience. Every time people find out I'm in med school they usually exclaim something to the tune of "you poor thing, I can't imagine how you handle all the mind-boggling amount of work" and then give me such a sympathetic look that I immediately have to reassure them that it's not as terrible as they imagine it, just to stop their poor bleeding heart from breaking. I have never heard anyone comment that medical school is easier than ANYTHING and I think that people who claim it's an easy path are simply living in blissful ignorance and I really wouldn't let them get to you. Med school IS hard. I'm not saying that some other pathways aren't just as hard, but even the most capable and intelligent people in medical school have to give 100% and still get stressed. Medical training is very rigorous without a doubt and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is simply misinformed

 

[Dookter]

Medical school is generally harder to get into than the others you listed. Vet school might be an exception due to limited seats. As for the work load, it seems to me that medical school is harder. I am not sure since I have obviously not attended any other school, but from what I know and from the people I know in other schools, medical school is harder than all the others listed. This could, however, have to do with the fact that I go to a school that crams the preclinical work down into such a small space.

 

[Pemulis]

I've found med school to be a bit easier than pre-med for one simple reason:

"P = MD"

I still work my butt off and try to do as well as possible on every exam, but I don't fret it if come test time I feel like I only know enough to respectibly pass, instead of crushing the damn thing. Perhaps reminding yourself of that can take the edge off a bit?

It's also just common sense that some people are going to be better at science than others. Medicine is about a lot more than just science knowledge--common sense, good communication skills, teamwork, etc. will probably all factor in equally if not greater than science knowledge once we actually get to clinical practice. But the first two years of med school really don't test or reflect those elements--they're just straight up science, so they can be yet another hoop to jump through for some people.

 

[RxnMan]

People don't always choose their career because they like the field. They choose it because they think it's the most difficult and impressive thing they could do with their lives. And if you're not doing the same thing as they are, you're less than them, and you're wasting your life. For the sham to continue, you have to buy in to their opinions and their poor choices. Realize that everyone has their own idea of what's impressive, and that you're not becoming a doc to impress them - you're doing it for you.

 

[FenderHM]

ok I dunno what my point was in this post, so its no longer here

 

[dilated]

I don't know about the preceding post but there is allegedly one of the best dental schools in the country where I go and it's loaded with hot chicks and people that love to get trashed. Getting in an elevator with these people on Monday (or Friday) morning is like a flashback to freshman year. The idea that they're working harder than the nerdy med students who live in the library is hilarious.

No knock on them, I wish I was out partying too 😛

 

[Azawakh]

I have had the opportunity to compare medical school to veterinary school because I completed a master's degree in Anatomy and Neurobiology at Boston University School of Medicine before beginning veterinary school at Tufts University. The master's degree consisted in the first-year of the same courses with the medical students before diverging during the second year into research. So although I can't give a complete 4 year comparison here is some insight.

It is more difficult to gain acceptance in to schools of veterinary medicine verses medical schools because there aren't many schools like many have mentioned. Otherwise I've found my first year of veterinary school noticeably more rigorous than medical school for the following reasons.

1. Gross Anatomy is a year long course and you not only have to know the anatomy of one species but of 5 species minimally.

2. In many medical schools the first year is pass/fail. In veterinary school it is not and if you have any desire to do a residency you have to be doing well again because there aren't many residency spots.

3. At Boston University, Case Western, and Tufts Medical school you don't have to take Histology, Gross Anatomy, Physiology, and Developmental Anatomy which are all heavy courses all at the same time. At BU in particular we took Gross Anatomy and Histology together followed by Neuroscience in the winter. So the course load is heavier thus far in veterinary school.

4. However the most noticeable thing to me is that the information learned by veterinary students is the same as the material learned by medical students and quite frankly as mammals the aliments and due to animal research the treatments often times are very similar if not identical. It is more daunting to learn all this material for multiple species.

5. Finally, who cares. Graduate studies and in particular medical studies because you are responsible in many cases for saving and ameliorating the lives of your patients are extremely rigorous across the board. I am just happy to be doing something I love. I would be attending veterinary school if it was the easiest school to get into and the easiest material to learn.

 

[DoctorFunk]

"P = FP"

Fixed for you.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've found med school to be a bit easier than pre-med for one simple reason:

"P = MD"

I still work my butt off and try to do as well as possible on every exam, but I don't fret it if come test time I feel like I only know enough to respectibly pass, instead of crushing the damn thing. Perhaps reminding yourself of that can take the edge off a bit?

Yes and no. How you do in classes is often an indicator of how you will perform on Step 1, and is certainly relevent in terms of class rank, Honors, AOA, etc, all of which can help a little come residency choice time. And you never know when that remaining X% of course material you didn't stress about might actually have come in handy when working clinically, had you learned it. So while you certainly will become a doctor if you pass everything, you might not keep as many doors open and might not be striving to become the best doctor you can.
So I'm not a fan of the "knowing enough to respectably pass" approach. Grades, competition etc should be irrelevant at this graduate stage -- you should be striving to do your best (whatever that may be) out of motivation to be a good doctor, to learn anything and everything you can. Obviously balance it out with whatever else you have going on in life, but med school, and medicine generally is about hard work, lifelong learning, not work avoidance. Be interested, engaged. You presumably came to med school to learn medicine, and become a good practitioner, not squeak by with the least effort possible. (I hope).

 

[Reimat]

psychology and vet schools are harder to get into than medicine

While I can't speak for vet schools, I can say clinical psych programs are certainly more difficult to get into than medical school. They have a significantly lower acceptance rate than medical schools (~1%), and generally require outstanding stats. It is almost impossible to get into a program straight out of undergrad (you need multiple years of research experience / publications), and there is a general lack of spots open for people. I know a few individuals that chose medicine partially because it is less competitive than clinical psych.

Once you get there, not as hard as med school, but getting in the door is certainly more difficult.

 

[indo]

p=residency in the middle of nowhere j/k


I've heard that Vet school is obscenely difficult to get into because of the number of people applying.

 

[wiryMD]

Is anyone here a vet, MD and DDS/DMD? Probably not, so nobody can actually give an objective comparison. Good luck to anyone who thinks they are good enough to do the other ones job. A touch of humility wouldn't kill anybody.

 

[Bertelman]

2. In many medical schools the first year is pass/fail. In veterinary school it is not and if you have any desire to do a residency you have to be doing well again because there aren't many residency spots.

Not in my medical school. Traditional grading system. And the illusion of P/F doesn't mean students slack off. It just means their basic grades cannnot be used to compare them to others. They still must learn the materials to pass USMLE Step1. And Step2 CK. Throw in Step 3 and your board exam for your specialty, that seems to be quite a bit more certification than Vets.

3. At Boston University, Case Western, and Tufts Medical school you don't have to take Histology, Gross Anatomy, Physiology, and Developmental Anatomy which are all heavy courses all at the same time. At BU in particular we took Gross Anatomy and Histology together followed by Neuroscience in the winter. So the course load is heavier thus far in veterinary school.

Once again, that's not universal. My school starts with Gross 2-3 days a week, Histo and Embryo. The latter two drop in the spring, Gross bumps up to 3 dissections a week for 6 weeks, and Physio gets thrown on top. On yeah, you forgot to mention Biochem, Micro/Immuno and Behavioral. Speaking of, do you take Pet Psychiatry during your second year? Point is, we can't compare classes because the material we have to learn is quite different.

4. However the most noticeable thing to me is that the information learned by veterinary students is the same as the material learned by medical students and quite frankly as mammals the aliments and due to animal research the treatments often times are very similar if not identical. It is more daunting to learn all this material for multiple species.

I don't buy it. I appreciate the differences between learning for one species versus several. But I figure somewhere in the mix vet students are actually learning far less details about individual species. On top of that, I have found it very difficult to actually find current research on animal treatments. It seems that treatments for animals tend to bebased on prior innovations in human medicine, or at least concurrent (considering Phase 1 trials are often animal models). So, it seems to me that most innovation is driven by the medical field. These are the same researchers that are teching our medical classes.

You certainly have an edge on experience having sat through the MS1 year. Unfortunately, although volume of knowledge during that year is significant, it tends to be more of a transitional experience. The load of MS2 is heavier, the info way more intense. Let's not even talk about MS3. I can't speak to your experiences in your masters course, but at our school "taking the same classes" doesn't always mean "taking the same classes". Our PA students sit through *most* of the same classes as us during MS2, but they have different exams, which obviously test different material. I feel bad that you had to sit through a semester of Microbiology to get a Masters in Anatomy.

5. Finally, who cares. Graduate studies and in particular medical studies because you are responsible in many cases for saving and ameliorating the lives of your patients are extremely rigorous across the board. I am just happy to be doing something I love. I would be attending veterinary school if it was the easiest school to get into and the easiest material to learn.

Absolutely agree. It doesn't matter in the end. Be happy with where you are, and work your hardest.

 

[Dookter]

While I can't speak for vet schools, I can say clinical psych programs are certainly more difficult to get into than medical school. They have a significantly lower acceptance rate than medical schools (~1%), and generally require outstanding stats. It is almost impossible to get into a program straight out of undergrad (you need multiple years of research experience / publications), and there is a general lack of spots open for people. I know a few individuals that chose medicine partially because it is less competitive than clinical psych.

Once you get there, not as hard as med school, but getting in the door is certainly more difficult.

I have heard this as well. But my fiance got into a clinical psych PhD program through a process that was a lot easier than my medical school process. Actually, most of my friends basically just walked right into graduate programs like it was a piece of cake. I have heard how hard graduate programs can be to get into [esp. clinical psych], but it just did not play out that way for the people I am friends with [or my fiance]. One of my best friends worked his BUTT off and was very accomplished. It not only landed him into grad school, but it landed him a spot in the best program in the coutry. Another one of my friends landed a PhD spot in one of the top engineering schools with nothing but a smile on his face, a decent GRE score, and a decent GPA. He also is fully funded [I think to the point of not having to TA or anything]. I realize engineering is not as hard as clinical psych to get into, but this guy had NO ECs, volunteering, etc. They did not care about any of that. So while I agree getting into these programs can be quite difficult, sometimes it's not all that hard.

I would also like to point out that sometimes getting into medical school is not all that hard. It depends on what state you're from, etc. My only real point of this post is to say that while clinical psych programs are hard to get into, people on here should not assume it is impossible.

 

[Dookter]

Is anyone here a vet, MD and DDS/DMD? Probably not, so nobody can actually give an objective comparison. Good luck to anyone who thinks they are good enough to do the other ones job. A touch of humility wouldn't kill anybody.

Ahh, the same old line used over and over on SND: If you haven't done something yourself, you know absolutely nothing about it.

Having friends, family members, etc., that are in other fields certainly gives people an idea of how things work, how hard they are etc. For instance, I worked at a vet school for a semester as a side job during undergrad. Before that, I assumed vet school was pretty basic. Then I realized they basically go rounding in the morning, etc. They had an ICU and all the works. It was literally a hospital for animals and not what I pictured from my vet's office back home.

I think people on here certainly have decent ideas of what other schools are like. And I think people have an even better idea of what other professions are like through interactions with people in those professions.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

Statitically, there may be more people rejected to vet school, but that doesn't mean it is harder to get into them. It has more to do with what people want to do. Since there is a perception that MD's make more money, there are always going to be more people who want to become an MD. So if your undergrad school has 100 upperclassmen who want to become doctors and 200 who want to become veterinarians (easily applicable to my undergrad school, for instance), the statistical probability of admission will be greater for the wannabe docs than vets. However if you were to throw everybody into the same pool of wannabes (give everybody the same career goal) and THEN compare grades, courseloads, extra-curriculars, standardized test performance, it would be most likely true that more admits would come from the 100 original premeds than the 200 prevets.

There are a similar number of DO schools in the country as vet schools while podiatry and chiropractic schools are extremely scarce. To say that it is "harder" to get into them because there are fewer is a misrepresentation. If DPM's made more money than MD's and/or were seen as more prestigious, than premed's would all be targeting them first and MD schools second.

With respect to vet med specifically, I attended two universities that had vet schools before I came to med school, so I can comment on this a little bit. In Big 12 country, we have several states (Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa) that have public vet schools. I guess it makes sense because we have some heavily ag-tilted land grant schools in these parts. If you wanna be a vet, move to a red state. The reason I point it out is because since these places are state facilities, they are going to admit a greater percentage of locals. K-State holds some slots for Nebraskans and Oklahoma State has some kind of program with the east coast, but you are in a better position simply because of where you live. Most states have medical schools, but veterinary medicine is demand-driven and concentrated in the places where more people use vets. That's how Colorado State and Texas A&M get a prestigious reputation.

Clinical psych--just look how many undergrads get psych degrees. It's crazy. Perhaps the reason so many kids finish psych programs is because they don't have a strong weed-out step so they have to wait until the psych GRE to get weeded out.

 

[Azawakh]

I say veterinary school is harder to get into because medical school was my back-up plan along with most of my classmates.

As my physiology professor says who also teaches physiology at UMASS medical school it's in the details. Grossly most mammals are similiar so it's in the details that the clinically relevant information lies. For example taurine which is an essential amino acid in felines that they use for bile acid conjugation is not essential in canines. So what makes this year more difficult in my estimation than M1 at BU which is a great medical school is that you DO need to know all the details in regards to inter-species differences. Also if you look at the veterinary curriculum and the medical curriculum it's the same essentially in coursework and chronologically. Animals have neurological problems too. (2.5 pre-clinical years, 1.5 clinical years, 1 yr internship (optional), 3 yr (residency).

Yes a lot of veterinary treatments are adopted from human treatments that were developed on animals however to use these treatments we have to know how they will function in 5 different species (feline, canine, bovine, equine, and a small ruminant caprine)

The average GPA for schools of veterinary medicine is 3.6 and there are no lower-tier vet schools to try for. If you are an out of state applicant which is often the case when there are only 28 veterinary schools in the country your GPA has to be even higher.

In any event this thread is the product of too many type-A personalities myself included I suppose who are trying to validate themselves by their academic achievements and pursuits.

Hmmm my academic program is tougher than yours, wait I guess that means I'm smarter, more important than you are. I would like to think we are beyond that. A lot more significant things to think about. In the advent of Avian Influenza, Mad cow disease, Equine encephalitis and other zoonotic infections we should think about how similiar our courses of study are and working together.

 

[wiryMD]

Having friends, family members, etc., that are in other fields certainly gives people an idea of how things work, how hard they are etc. For instance, I worked at a vet school for a semester as a side job during undergrad. Before that, I assumed vet school was pretty basic. Then I realized they basically go rounding in the morning, etc. They had an ICU and all the works. It was literally a hospital for animals and not what I pictured from my vet's office back home.

I think people on here certainly have decent ideas of what other schools are like. And I think people have an even better idea of what other professions are like through interactions with people in those professions.

So you're telling me that the vet's literally have a hospital for animals? No, I won't believe it.

Of course interaction with other people can give you an idea of what something is like, but it certainly does not give you enough information to make an objective judgement about it. Assuming that you can do so based on limited information breeds the kind of ridiculous discourse SND forums are littered with. For example, you've probably watched many physicians deliver news to a family regarding a patients death, so do you believe since you've been around, seen it done, etc... you know what it's like to deliver that kind of news? You, in fact proved this point in your last post, you made a judgment about vets based on your "vets office back home," but then later you had additional experience which gave you an expanded understanding. So how will you know if you speak with family/friends etc..., about something that you won't make the same mistake. Recognize the boundaries of indirect knowledge.

 

[G.O.A.T.]

the dental students out my school definitely have a harder first two years than the med students. that's not to say our first two years is easy, but their's is definitely harder.

 

[G.O.A.T.]

For example, you've probably watched many physicians deliver news to a family regarding a patients death, so do you believe since you've been around, seen it done, etc... you know what it's like to deliver that kind of news?

what a stupid example.

 

[Dookter]

So you're telling me that the vet's literally have a hospital for animals? No, I won't believe it.

Of course interaction with other people can give you an idea of what something is like, but it certainly does not give you enough information to make an objective judgement about it. Assuming that you can do so based on limited information breeds the kind of ridiculous discourse SND forums are littered with. For example, you've probably watched many physicians deliver news to a family regarding a patients death, so do you believe since you've been around, seen it done, etc... you know what it's like to deliver that kind of news? You, in fact proved this point in your last post, you made a judgment about vets based on your "vets office back home," but then later you had additional experience which gave you an expanded understanding. So how will you know if you speak with family/friends etc..., about something that you won't make the same mistake. Recognize the boundaries of indirect knowledge.

I agree with you almost completely. However, you're making the assumption that the people on this forum have no idea what they are talking about since they do not hold multiple degrees in these areas. And yes, a lot of misinformation and B.S. is spread around on these forums. But people clearly MIGHT have an idea of other fields. I was using my example of working at the vet school to show that I had an idea of how vet schools operate and how serious they actually are. I am not a vet student and do not have a degree that is even close to a DVM, but I do know something about it. And indirect knowledge has tons of boundaries. But it also contains a lot of truth.

Knowledge is not as good if it is not attained first-hand. However, it is still knowledge. I never took those "resource" math classes in grade school for struggling students. But I am 100% positive they were easier than my math classes that were ~two years ahead of the average student. So it is possible to know about things without having experienced them. You just don't know as much about them as someone who has.

And as for the vet school having a hospital for animals, it's true. I never said my vet's office has this. I said the vet school where I worked has this. It was literally a hospital [OR, cancer docs, X-rays, ICU, the whole deal]. I just never realized how advanced vet. medicine is before I worked there. Who knew people put their dogs on chemo? I sure didn't!

And as for me proving your point in my last post about having the wrong notions of vet school to start with: I never claimed to know anything about vet school before that. If I had actually known something about it from family members, friends, direct experience, then I would have known. I never claimed that people can have any knowledge of something when they have had absolutely no direct or indirect exposure to it.

 

[wiryMD]

what a stupid example.

Eloquent reply.

 

[soeagerun2or]

I'm wondering if anyone else have been experiencing this phenonemon as a med student.


But then, I feel like an idiot when people tell me that psychology and vet schools are harder to get into than medicine, that DPT and dental students have it rougher than med students because they have a heavier workload.

Yikes, does that mean that med school is the 'easier' choice then?

How many people have you heard about not getting into PT/OT, Dental, Pharm, etc. school so med school was the backup? Reverse that question and you'll have your answer as to which is harder and harder to get into.

 

[G.O.A.T.]

Eloquent reply.

i try. 😀

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Is anyone here a vet, MD and DDS/DMD? Probably not, so nobody can actually give an objective comparison. Good luck to anyone who thinks they are good enough to do the other ones job. A touch of humility wouldn't kill anybody.

Excellent point. 👍

 

[wiryMD]

Knowledge is not as good if it is not attained first-hand. However, it is still knowledge.

I agree with you, but the differences even within the medical, dental, veterinary professions is so broad that making any kind of generalization is impossible. Unfortunately the discussions in these forums tend to degenerate into "mine is tougher than yours," and as such the true first hand knowledge is tough to discern amongst the slew of worthless posts.

 

[G.O.A.T.]

I agree with you, but the differences even within the medical, dental, veterinary professions is so broad that making any kind of generalization is impossible. Unfortunately the discussions in these forums tend to degenerate into "mine is tougher than yours," and as such the true first hand knowledge is tough to discern amongst the slew of worthless posts.

vy is making the colts look like the trojans,wolverines, sooners, aggies.....i am a liar, for i am not the G.O.A.T. vy is truly the G.O.A.T.

 

[SteveUTexas]

Does it really matter who has it easier? That is such a stupid pissing contesting to get into. If you want to argue about something then argue about which profession has the most utility to society. Hands down that would be clinical medicine. Clinical psychologist and their pseudoscience can't actually do something for your bipolar patient but a doc that can prescribe some lithium can sure make him more functional in society. Vets are an entirely different realm but in the end they are treating animals.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Does it really matter who has it easier? That is such a stupid pissing contesting to get into. If you want to argue about something then argue about which profession has the most utility to society. Hands down that would be clinical medicine. Clinical psychologist and their pseudoscience can't actually do something for your bipolar patient but a doc that can prescribe some lithium can sure make him more functional in society. Vets are an entirely different realm but in the end they are treating animals.

But you're going into another stupid pissing contest. Why do you have to be more important than vets, dentists or psychologists? Who cares? I don't have to have the most important job to justify my existence. Personally, I'm glad we have dentists, and my cats need their vets. I chose medicine because I like it more, not just to gratify my ego.

 

[cfdavid]

I'm wondering if anyone else have been experiencing this phenonemon as a med student.

I had to struggle to get into med school. I'm not one of those "yikes-I-have-five-full-rides-to-med-school-which-one-should-I-choose" types. I had a hard time getting into med school (although probably no harder than many other med students). I had to retake the MCAT after it expired, and quit my job to study for it and take bio classes, and I had to apply to 20+ schools for the hope of a handful of interviews and maybe an acceptance or two. I don't think I had it rougher than any other premed, but I always thought it was a pretty rough application process. And once I got in, it's been a rough semester, mainly becaues I feel like I'm drowning in coursework and (I feel) I'm always in danger of failing.

But then, I feel like an idiot when people tell me that psychology and vet schools are harder to get into than medicine, that DPT and dental students have it rougher than med students because they have a heavier workload.

Yikes, does that mean that med school is the 'easier' choice then? Does anyone get this a lot? That people tell you, "Don't worry, you may think med school is hard, but tons of students have it much rougher than you". It makes me feel worse since I had a hard time getting in and (now) staying in.

So first semester of med school is almost over and I'm feeling like I've been run over by a big truck. There's no doubt in my mind that it's an intense few years for me.

However, am I just thinking in a very narrow realm here? Medicine has consumed my life these past year and a half. I dont' have time to talk with students from other professions and ask them how their programs compare, or how hard it was to get into the program/what sacrifices they had to make for it. I'm wondering what other people think their med school program as compared to other professional training....is it true that med school is pretty laid back as compared to other professions? Are we all a bunch of whiners (or maybe just me?)? 😀

I think yes, to some extent, there IS a lot of whining on these boards. I can't tell you how many times I'll be studying at a cofee shop, and a teacher will be in there on a Sunday, grading papers for 4 hours straight. It's not as transparent as it is with medicine, but so many other professions have at least as many hurdles, challenges, and time requirements. It's just not as "formal" as the training that doctors go through.

I'm not comparing the training, and expense of gaining a teaching certificate to that required to practice medicine. I'm simply making the point that today's economy requires a ton from it's workforce. The examples are too many to get into. But, it should be somewhat of a relief for pre-meds or med students to recognize that the alternatives often require very similar sacrifices in terms of hours/week working (including out of office time), stress/pressure, and the length of time it takes to achieve some level of success and financial security. It's just not as obvious from the outside.

 

[45408]

So you're telling me that the vet's literally have a hospital for animals? No, I won't believe it.

Are you joking? It's true. They're not the same size as a human hospital, but they certainly have animal hospitals. I read about one once in the Smithsonian magazine, and they use machines like CT scanners that hospitals don't need once they upgrade to the latest technology.

try this one out for size: http://www.vet.upenn.edu/ryan/

 

[G0S2]

Are you joking? It's true. They're not the same size as a human hospital, but they certainly have animal hospitals. I read about one once in the Smithsonian magazine, and they use machines like CT scanners that hospitals don't need once they upgrade to the latest technology.

try this one out for size: http://www.vet.upenn.edu/ryan/

It’s absolutely true. My cat threw an acute saddle thrombosis to his aortic bifurcation at his iliacs and lost leg function. My vet got me an emergency referral to this cat/dog hospital with a vascular specialist. This place was huge and cleaner than any hospital I have been in. 24 hours and $2,000 later I had a sonogram showing exactly where the clot was and an echo to show that he had a hypertrophic heart, which was developing mural thrombi. Following Tx with heparin and some rehab (diltiazem & aspirin), the little bugger is the fastest three legged cat I have ever witnessed!! Never got the use of the other one.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

med students have it the hardest. no other profession requires >= 7 years of training.
tell that to them next time.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I got sick of the rumor and hearsay around how few vet school spots there are so I decided to take a look at the actual numbers.

From VMCAS
http://www.aavmc.org/students_admissions/documents/enrollment.pdf
Class of 2008 enrollment in US veterinary schools: 2576.
Applicants for class of 2008: 4581
http://www.aavmc.org/students_admissions/AAVMCStudentsAdmissionsStatisticsVMCASStatistics2005.htm
Percentage of VET applicants enrolled class of 2008: 56.2%

From AMCAS
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2006summary.htm
Class of 2008 enrollment in medical schools: 16,648
Applicants for class of 2008: 35,735
Percentage of MED applicants enrolled class of 2008: 46.6%

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I say veterinary school is harder to get into because medical school was my back-up plan along with most of my classmates.

That would be a terrible idea. Your big and small animal extracurric's dont translate into the preclinical experience looked for by med schools. Also if im interviewing an applicant whose applied to vet school before I am going grill him/her on why.

 

[bonesawz]

It’s absolutely true. My cat threw an acute saddle thrombosis to his aortic bifurcation at his iliacs and lost leg function. My vet got me an emergency referral to this cat/dog hospital with a vascular specialist. This place was huge and cleaner than any hospital I have been in. 24 hours and $2,000 later I had a sonogram showing exactly where the clot was and an echo to show that he had a hypertrophic heart, which was developing mural thrombi. Following Tx with heparin and some rehab (diltiazem & aspirin), the little bugger is the fastest three legged cat I have ever witnessed!! Never got the use of the other one.

The only way any cat is worth $2,000 is if it makes me breakfast and does the dishes. You were kidding, right?

 

[SteveUTexas]

It’s absolutely true. My cat threw an acute saddle thrombosis to his aortic bifurcation at his iliacs and lost leg function. My vet got me an emergency referral to this cat/dog hospital with a vascular specialist. This place was huge and cleaner than any hospital I have been in. 24 hours and $2,000 later I had a sonogram showing exactly where the clot was and an echo to show that he had a hypertrophic heart, which was developing mural thrombi. Following Tx with heparin and some rehab (diltiazem & aspirin), the little bugger is the fastest three legged cat I have ever witnessed!! Never got the use of the other one.

[sarcasm]It is great that pets in America have such great access to tertiary care centers. Hey if you can afford it then why not?[/sarcasm] I saw a patient a couple of weeks ago that lost his leg because he could not afford his DM meds. He can no longer work as a roofer because he can't climb a later. I love the American way.

 

[Azawakh]

That would be a terrible idea. Your big and small animal extracurric's dont translate into the preclinical experience looked for by med schools. Also if im interviewing an applicant whose applied to vet school before I am going grill him/her on why.

VMCAS Web Application Data

(VMCAS Applicant Pool for Class of 2008)

Please note that the following statistics refer only to applicants of VMCAS participating schools and does not represent the entire applicant pool.

In terms of medical school. It would not be a terrible idea. I would settle for medical school because I am passionate about science, research, and medicine secondarily to my passion for animals.

My medical experiences span both fields including working as a research technician at Harvard Medical School for two years in the Clinical Pathology laboratory. Including working for two years at Boston University School of Medicine in a neurobiology laboratory studying Autism. I also presented at a number of Neuroscience conferences. In fact a number of my professors at Boston University School of Medicine including the head of the Anatomy and Neurobiology department tried and failed to get into veterinary school.

In all honesty.I have the utmost respect for physicians. The training is academically challenging and very rigorous. It is exceeding difficult to get accepted to a lot of graduate programs for varying reasons.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

VMCAS Web Application Data

(VMCAS Applicant Pool for Class of 2008)

Please note that the following statistics refer only to applicants of VMCAS participating schools and does not represent the entire applicant pool.

http://www.aavmc.org/vmcas/college_requirement.htm
http://www.aavmc.org/students_admissions/documents/enrollment.pdf
We remove 272 to correct for Tufts, Texas A M and TUS
2304/4581 =50.3%, still higher than 46.6%
4581 may include the non US schools, in which case the reality would be that there are fewer applicants in the US than 4581 and the accept rate rate would be higher than 50.3%. Since you are the vet student, I'd like too see the numbers you have.
From what I can see, there's no evidence to suggest that Vet is significantly harder to get into that Med. If anyone has any real evidence (i.e. NOT ANECDOTES) I'd like to hear it.

 

[wiryMD]

Are you joking? It's true. They're not the same size as a human hospital, but they certainly have animal hospitals. I read about one once in the Smithsonian magazine, and they use machines like CT scanners that hospitals don't need once they upgrade to the latest technology.

try this one out for size: http://www.vet.upenn.edu/ryan/

For the love of god, is sarcasm completely lost here?

 

[wiryMD]

VMCAS Web Application Data

(VMCAS Applicant Pool for Class of 2008)

Please note that the following statistics refer only to applicants of VMCAS participating schools and does not represent the entire applicant pool.

In terms of medical school. It would not be a terrible idea. I would settle for medical school because I am passionate about science, research, and medicine secondarily to my passion for animals.

My medical experiences span both fields including working as a research technician at Harvard Medical School for two years in the Clinical Pathology laboratory. Including working for two years at Boston University School of Medicine in a neurobiology laboratory studying Autism. I also presented at a number of Neuroscience conferences. In fact a number of my professors at Boston University School of Medicine including the head of the Anatomy and Neurobiology department tried and failed to get into veterinary school.

In all honesty.I have the utmost respect for physicians. The training is academically challenging and very rigorous. It is exceeding difficult to get accepted to a lot of graduate programs for varying reasons.

So you're telling me that "most" of the students in your class at BU wanted to be vets. I find that exceedingly hard to believe. That of course is not a knock on vets at all, i just struggle with the concept that >50% of your class would prefer to be vets and used medicine as a back up plan. And could you please attach your entire CV with your next post, I can't take you seriously without the list of credentials.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

The only way any cat is worth $2,000 is if it makes me breakfast and does the dishes. You were kidding, right?

I'd pay $2k for my cats, and I know I'm not alone on this one.

 

[Azawakh]

No silly. About 25% of my current veterinary school class at Tufts were told to consider and in fact considered medical school as a back-up plan if they were not admitted to veterinary school.

Here is me in a nutshell.

I graduate from Middlebury College in 2002. Biology major (pre-med)/minors in French/Psychology. 3.2 GPA

I then worked in Boston full-time at Boston University School of Medicine as a research technician in an immunohistochemistry laboratory in the department of anatomy and neurobiology studying the effects of Autism on the gabaergic interneurons in the hippocampal formation. I presented this research at IMFAR 2005, 2006 and Neuroscience 2005.

I also worked part-time at Harvard Medical School in a clinical pathology laboratory working mainly with patients blood samples who had non-myeloablative bone marrow transplants and we had to monitor their blood chimerism.

Then I did a 2 yr. master's degree at BU School of Medicine in Anatomy and Neurobiology. 3.85 GPA, > 90 percentile GRE before getting accepted to Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine and there you have it.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

While I can't speak for vet schools, I can say clinical psych programs are certainly more difficult to get into than medical school. They have a significantly lower acceptance rate than medical schools (~1%), and generally require outstanding stats. It is almost impossible to get into a program straight out of undergrad (you need multiple years of research experience / publications), and there is a general lack of spots open for people. I know a few individuals that chose medicine partially because it is less competitive than clinical psych.

Once you get there, not as hard as med school, but getting in the door is certainly more difficult.

Link?

 

[Dookter]

The only way any cat is worth $2,000 is if it makes me breakfast and does the dishes. You were kidding, right?

Where I worked, I saw the bills. You would not believe what people spend on their pets!!!

 

[Pinkertinkle]

No silly. About 25% of my current veterinary school class at Tufts were told to consider and in fact considered medical school as a back-up plan if they were not admitted to veterinary school.

Here is me in a nutshell.

I graduate from Middlebury College in 2002. Biology major (pre-med)/minors in French/Psychology. 3.2 GPA

I then worked in Boston full-time at Boston University School of Medicine as a research technician in an immunohistochemistry laboratory in the department of anatomy and neurobiology studying the effects of Autism on the gabaergic interneurons in the hippocampal formation. I presented this research at IMFAR 2005, 2006 and Neuroscience 2005.

I also worked part-time at Harvard Medical School in a clinical pathology laboratory working mainly with patients blood samples who had non-myeloablative bone marrow transplants and we had to monitor their blood chimerism.

Then I did a 2 yr. master's degree at BU School of Medicine in Anatomy and Neurobiology. 3.85 GPA, > 90 percentile GRE before getting accepted to Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine and there you have it.

I think the sarcasm was lost on this one as well.

 

[deleted77919]

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic when he asked for your CV.

I don't feel that any threads like this have gone anywhere productive. I'm happy with that I'm doing, wouldn't want to be doing anything else as much. I'm glad others have different goals, desires, ambitions. What's the point in arguing about who has things easier or harder? Worry about yourself.