med students- why they look down upon us?

[PeterEP]

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Medical students AND doctors actually DO think they're smarter than pharmacits (as I am a 6th year PharmD student that just applied to dental school). They have a little more respect for dentists actually. But who cares what anyone thinks anyway..

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

On the flipside, nothing annoys me more than when certain dental students and dentists try to state they have the same clinical skills and understanding of basic sciences that I have "+ their dental skills." I don't think medicine is better than dentistry or vice versa. But I do think they are different fields that emphasize different skill sets. I know some schools like Columbia make dental and medical students share the same curriculum but the vast majority of dental schools don't do this. I know that many dental schools don't require anatomy training below the head and neck and those that do don't require lower limb anatomy as examples. You don't spend your 3rd and 4th years doing clinical rotations and then another 3 years reinforcing those clinicals skills in a hospital based residency. I know there are exceptions like the oral surgeons who get an M.D. degree but I count those people as physicians as much as I do dentists so I'm not addressing them.

Dentistry is not a subspeciality of medicine like radiology. You don't devote the same number of hours toward basic science classes since you spend a large portion of your hours learning dental skills. Dentistry prepares people for the opportunity to practice upon graduation which is why you spend a significant amount of time during dental school learning your trade. Medicine is not modeled in this fashion. We are expected to do a residency so we are not cramming clinical skills during our first two years like you guys do. That is why we spend more hours on pathology, microbiology etc.

Again, I don't think less of dentistry but it is a different fields that shares many things in common with medicine but they are not the same.

As a dentist, I would definitely agree with this, although there are always exceptions to the rule. What I mean is this, not every medical student comes out ahead of a dental student in the above areas. I do think medical students as a whole receive a more thorough presentation of material, but one only learns and retains what he/she wants to retain.

 

[daelroy]

As a dentist, I would definitely agree with this, although there are always exceptions to the rule. What I mean is this, not every medical student comes out ahead of a dental student in the above areas. I do think medical students as a whole receive a more thorough presentation of material, but one only learns and retains what he/she wants to retain.

Well said, I completely agree with what you are saying.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

ProZack, I like reading your posts. Even if I don't agree, you are organized and articulate with your opinions which allows for solid discussion. I especially liked your tutelage on "you're" and "your". People who haven't figured that out at this point in their education have a problem. Also irritating is not knowing how to use there/their/they're and too/to/two. Good work.

 

[WestCoast]

This isn't exactly true. My uncle teaches at UCSF and told me they provide different exams to the dental and medical students. They ask more difficult questions to the medical students because they have to take Step I at the end of second year which requires a higher depth of knowledge than the dental board in regards to basic sciences. I believe Columbia offers two separate exams as well despite students sharing the same lecture hall?

this is intesting because when i interviewed at columbia for omfs, one of the resident went there for dental school and stayed to do the 6 yr omfs. i asked if taking second year of med school again was the same as that of her dental school, since it is the same class, and she said that the tests were more diffcult than the dental school. i think the classes are more in depth and detailed than dental school. but, there is definitely more time to study. how much will i remember of everything? probably not much. i already forgot quite bit i learned a few months ago. 🙄

 

[Dr. Pedo]

ProZack, I like reading your posts. Even if I don't agree, you are organized and articulate with your opinions which allows for solid discussion. I especially liked your tutelage on "you're" and "your". People who haven't figured that out at this point in their education have a problem. Also irritating is not knowing how to use there/their/they're and too/to/two. Good work.

Don't forget the EVER ANNOYING----Definately vs. the correct spelling Definitely---- 😱

 

[toofache32]

...I especially liked your tutelage on "you're" and "your". People who haven't figured that out at this point in their education have a problem...

Some people would say your nitpicking here, but I agree. 😛

 

[Fascia Lata]

Don't forget the EVER ANNOYING----Definately vs. the correct spelling Definitely---- 😱

I believe all these spelling mistakes are made by forigners (including myself). I doubt if there's any American who has attended 4 years of college and has gone through English comprehension studies (plus being smart enough to enter the medical/dental field) can commit those spelling mistakes.

Prozack writes very nicely because he is a lawyer in the first place. He writes like lawyers.

 

[daelroy]

this is intesting because when i interviewed at columbia for omfs, one of the resident went there for dental school and stayed to do the 6 yr omfs. i asked if taking second year of med school again was the same as that of her dental school, since it is the same class, and she said that the tests were more diffcult than the dental school. i think the classes are more in depth and detailed than dental school. but, there is definitely more time to study. how much will i remember of everything? probably not much. i already forgot quite bit i learned a few months ago. 🙄

I never made any claim as to which program was more difficult. I just said in regards to the basic sciences, medical school, in general, is more comprehensive and difficult. However, if one wanted to argue dental school is more difficult than medical school in general, they certainly have a case. I wouldn't want to cut teeth or prepare molds after being in class all day.

 

[toofache32]

I never made any claim as to which program was more difficult. I just said in regards to the basic sciences, medical school, in general, is more comprehensive and difficult. However, if one wanted to argue dental school is more difficult than medical school in general, they certainly have a case. I wouldn't want to cut teeth or prepare molds after being in class all day.

I agree. My medical school went into a little more detail with basic sciences (but not that much), but they only took 2-3 of those courses at a time. But on the whole, Dental school requires students to digest a much larger total volume of information. Most med students are shocked to learn that dental students study nephrotic syndrome, cervical cancer, and a bunch of other useless disorders.

 

[duh?]

This 'argument' could go on forever. I'm learning a lot guys. Great job! *Now y'all can get back to educating me* 😀

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

I believe all these spelling mistakes are made by forigners (including myself).

Foreigners have an excuse, definitely. They are not, however, the only ones making the mistakes. When I was reading personal statements before our interviews, I picked up all kinds of grammar and spelling errors that Microsoft Word's grammar- and spell-check must have missed. The majority were not foreigners. There was one sentence in particular that carried on for six lines. By the time I got to the end of the sentence, I had forgotton how it began.

 

[OzDDS]

Yes, an MD and an MBBS are functional equivalents. I understand that concept. .

I dont know.. do you?

That was my whole point, genius. Yes, it's semantics, but nonetheless, to go around calling yourself "doctor" when you do not have one is pure puffery. How do you avoid this? Stop using the antiquated and ridiculous British nomenclature..

by that token I also find it "puffery" for you to go around claiming you have a "doctorate" when it is really an ENTRY LEVEL Undergraduate degree. This goes for all American entry level professional degrees. DDS, MD, JD, AUD, DPT, DOT, etc. that have been "puffed up" to be doctorates when they are in fact not true doctorate level degrees.

An AuD is now the degree for audiologists, but it's a puffed and bloated MA/MS in audiology. The ONLY reason why audiologists went to the AuD is because they want increased respect and hope to expand their scope of practice to become more like optometrists (who do the same thing for the eyes as the audios do for the ears). Is this degree inflation or expansion of practice? .

Now this I agree with.. now were on the same track. You have to understand that people in the US want to claim they have a "doctorate level" degree. So they name change. but everyone still knows they are the same thing. They are LEGAL equivilents to each other.

If you have an MBBS, you are NOT a doctor by degree, but only by courtesy title. It's that simple. A US JD is more of a doctor than a Brit MBBS. That's not to say that an MBBS cannot be an excellent physician..

You have GOT to be kidding me! If you have either a US- MD or a UK- MBBS.. then you are called "doctor" because you are a physican.. not because of the degree. They are the SAME degree!! (both entry level equivilant first degrees in Medicine) a JD .. regardless if it is calld a "doctorate". IS NOT A DOCTORATE. it is the legal equivilent of a UK- LLB. In BOTH contries you apply for an LLM AFTER you obtain an entry level law degree (either a US-JD or UK-LLB).

 

[OzDDS]

I would call an anesthesiologist "Dr.", yes. If I was addressing a surgeon, however, I'd refer to him/her as Mr./Mrs./Ms. as appropriate, and there's nothing disrespectful or idiotic about it.

From someone who's learned the hard way a couple times, you might want to make sure you've done your own homework before you start calling people names. 😉

I apologise aphisitis. 🙂 I retract my idiot comment.

 

[OzDDS]

An MD bestows the title doctor by virtue of the degree, not by the occupation.

Having both entry level med and law degrees yourself I would think you would understand this concept.


If the US states that they are "legal equivilents" of each other. Which it does! ie.
MD = MBBS

That means one of two things:

1) Says that another countries bachelor degree is to the level of a doctorate in the US.

or

2) Says that a Doctorate in the US is no greater level than a bachelors.




I'd have to say that the better definition would be #2.
.. for one because this is the first degree in that field that is offered. ie. an MD does not build on prior Medical knowledge and training (a previous bachelors in bio does not count as this is technically a different field)


Just because you complete a prior degree before entering medicine.. even if it is required.. that does not make it a doctorate in that field of study.

Actually ask some of the medical students from the Australia or the UK. There are many medical schools that 'require' a previous degree before you can begin the program. (Graduate entry programs) But the degree you recieve is still a "bachelor of medicine" (MBBS).

There are also 6-year med programs for students right out of high school in the US too!

The British system (upon which the US education system is founded btw) still keeps to the true definition and tradition of education. and apperantly has chosen (rightfully so) to keep it's honor and history rather than succumbing to money and has successfully kept it's political pressure groups from misinterperting and changing it's foundation.

 

[ProZackMI]

This is a good idea. Unless you have an inferiority complex you should have no objection on the above suggestion. Well said Prozack.

Okay u have convinced me to an extent. At least in the USA, where the 1ry medical diploma is a doctorate degree by name, one should clearly address himself by one's profession and only write the letters of his diploma after his name and not the ones that he thinks are equivalent. This is in order not to deceive the public. However, I still se nothing wrong in calling a physician or a dantist "doctor" in a country where the 1ry professional degree is a bachelors degree (such as UK, Egypt,..etc)and the term dcotor is broadly understood to be equivalent to the term physician.

Okay, no problem, but I think I should be able to call my girlfriend who has a master's degree in social work, "doctor", and my friend with a BSN degree "doctor". I mean, they are healers of sorts, even even though they don't have an earned professional or academic doctorate, why not give them a courtesy title like they do in Egypt or the UK?

 

[ProZackMI]

ProZack, I like reading your posts. Even if I don't agree, you are organized and articulate with your opinions which allows for solid discussion. I especially liked your tutelage on "you're" and "your". People who haven't figured that out at this point in their education have a problem. Also irritating is not knowing how to use there/their/they're and too/to/two. Good work.

Thank you, sir! 🙂

 

[jcstylee]

I think we should all look up to chemists, molecular biologists, geneticists, physicists, and biochemists because they are the real scientists who do the complex research (Dr. Shulgin rules). Medical students should re-evaluate their motives of wanting to become a health care provider if they think they are the top dogs. If they think they are so brilliant than maybe they should have taken a less paying/ research driven job in which they can utilize their superior intelligence towards winning a nobel prize.

-Jim

 

[rocknightmare]

I am kind of afraid to enter this argument because of the high level of intellect that is going on here. But here is a little opinion on the argument. The reason that in order to enter a MD/DDS you need to get a bachelors degree of some sort in the United States is because some courses are not taught in high school as they are taught overseas. In other countries general chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, higher level biology are taught at a high level in high school and therefore is not required to be taken as a requirement in a system of B.S. /B.A.

Now back to the question of basic science training in MD vs. DDS. I have always had the curiosity if in MD you get to learn at a harder level than in DDS. I have spoken with some professors that teach the basic sciences. They all have mentioned that the questions that are asked on exams are usually on the same level of toughness. Yet in medical school you usually have more questions because more material is covered in some subjects that are more relevant to being a physician. Therefore, when I finish all my basic science training, I would say I have the same basic science training in some courses that have relevance to dentistry, while on the other hand other courses that do not have relevance I would have less training.

 

[prechilill]

Dentist= 4 years of school.
Everything above dentists on this list > 7 years...hence why he said while they (Drs) ride their bikes to work (residency).

Also, i dont know about you, but I imagine the 170K average dental salary reproted by the ADA is more accurate than this miracle list.

As far as the airline pilot pay, I can tell you that figure is at least three years dated. Now, the average is considerably lower for pilots so the other salary figures posted could be suspect too. Some could be close to reality, but consider what the arm forces just did to dental retention bonuses for dental specialists: OMFS = $50k per year, Endo/ CompDental/ Prost = $40k per year, Perio/ Ortho/ Pedo = $35k. The general surgeon gets around $35k in annual retention bonuses and the highest a physician can get is about the OMFS level. Of course, these figures are strictly dicated by the needs of the Armed Forces and not representative of actual skill level/ training. If anything, though, these numbers highlight where dentistry has come in the past fifteen years. Back then, dental students couldn't even get military scholarships for school.

Regarding the MD/ DDS debate, I have seen ***** MD's (pediatricians mostly) and ***** general dentists. It can go both ways and depends on the character of the individual and not the profession as a whole.

 

[toofache32]

...Regarding the MD/ DDS debate, I have seen ***** MD's (pediatricians mostly) and ***** general dentists. It can go both ways and depends on the character of the individual and not the profession as a whole.

This has been my observation in both medical and dental school. Both had their share of brilliant people....and also their share of bottom-feeders.

 

[daelroy]

I agree. My medical school went into a little more detail with basic sciences (but not that much), but they only took 2-3 of those courses at a time. But on the whole, Dental school requires students to digest a much larger total volume of information. Most med students are shocked to learn that dental students study nephrotic syndrome, cervical cancer, and a bunch of other useless disorders.

What medical school was this? No disrespect but I have never heard of a medical school that offerred such a pansy schedule. I would be really interested to know the name of this medical school because that it's difficult to believe they only took 2-3 difficult courses at a time.

I could undertstand how dental school is more difficult than medical school in general due to the manual skills you must learn and the limited amount of time that you have to master these while learning basic sciences. Keep in mind that most physicians or medical students wouldn't admit this so I'm trying to be as unbiased and fair as possible. But it's patently false to state that dental students have to know a larger volume of information than medical students. Nothing could be further from the truth and most dental students would agree since diagnosing patients is the major responsiblity of physicians so we have to know differentials and every possible outcome that dentists are not responsible for. I know dental students study a wide variety of disorders like the ones you mentioned but they don't go into the same level of detail and that is the point I'm making. Most importantly, you are not tested on knowing that type of detail so even if a dental student learns about cervical cancer, there is not going to a 3rd order question regarding cervical cancer on his board exam.

 

[UConn_SDM]

I have a medical degree and I have no idea how to tell WPW from anything else on a EKG. Or urinary physiology. In the MD world it's analagous to what the orthodontists teach us in dental school..."refer it out!"

I'm just a general dentist and I can diagnose WPW, right/left bundle branch blocks, and Torsades de Pontes. Have no idea what I would do after that other than yell help......but....

There are also differences between schools. Dental students who go to schools that take classes with the medical student the first 2 years have obviously covered everything the med students have......we're probably really out of practice by graduation....You don't use it you lose it!

 

[toofache32]

What medical school was this? No disrespect but I have never heard of a medical school that offerred such a pansy schedule.

UT Southwestern http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu The real med students there are pretty proud of it, but I don't really have anything to compare with.

...But it's patently false to state that dental students have to know a larger volume of information than medical students. Nothing could be further from the truth and most dental students would agree since diagnosing patients is the major responsiblity of physicians so we have to know differentials and every possible outcome that dentists are not responsible for....

I agree that physicians as a whole diagnose a larger number of systemic problems, but not every physician can diagnose every problem...thus we have specialties. Medical school is only a generic introductory education into medicine....that's why you have to do a residency. Residencies exist to focus on one area of diagnosis, treatment, etc. You're kidding yourself if you think a freshly graduated medical student has any special powers to actually diagnose the problems and "every possible outcome" of each bodily system and specialty. Ask an orthopod how to treat uterine bleeding...ask a pediatrician about prostate cancer, etc.

Dentist don't learn a smaller volume of material because the just "do teeth." Similarly, med students don't learn more just because they "do the whole body." Does anyone believe that 1 month on Psychiatry makes you a Psychiatrist? In the end med students learn their specialty.... internal medicine or anesthesia or surgery, etc., while dental students learn their specialty... dentistry. The only people who can make valid comparisons are those who have done both medical and dental school. And the vast majority agree, regardless of med school. But it doesn't really matter anyway. I've got your medical degree, so I feel like I know where you're coming from. Again, don't get me wrong....med school isn't easy, but it's definately not the worst thing out there, despite what med students like to believe.

 

[Rezdawg]

What medical school was this? No disrespect but I have never heard of a medical school that offerred such a pansy schedule. I would be really interested to know the name of this medical school because that it's difficult to believe they only took 2-3 difficult courses at a time.

The BU med schedule I posted on page 4 looks pretty pansy-ish to me.

 

[jcstylee]

UT Southwestern http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu The real med students there are pretty proud of it, but I don't really have anything to compare with.

I agree that physicians as a whole diagnose a larger number of systemic problems, but not every physician can diagnose every problem...thus we have specialties. Medical school is only a generic introductory education into medicine....that's why you have to do a residency. Residencies exist to focus on one area of diagnosis, treatment, etc. You're kidding yourself if you think a freshly graduated medical student has any special powers to actually diagnose the problems of every bodily system and specialty. Ask an orthopod how to treat uterine bleeding...ask a pediatrician about prostate cancer, etc.

Dentist don't learn a smaller volume of material because the just "do teeth." Similarly, med students don't learn more just because they "do the whole body." You think that 1 month on Psychiatry makes you a Psychiatrist? In the end med students learn their specialty.... internal medicine or anesthesia or surgery, etc., while dental students learn their specialty... dentistry.

Toofache32,

You hit the bullseye during your description of your differentiation-esque analysis of specialist with-in the health care industries. Most people don't realize their oral health inately relates to implications of their overall health (i.e., inflamatory responses of gingivitis/ periodontitis produce histamines which pose serious threats towards heart disease and oral manifestations act as serious signs of the HIV-infected patient). This being said, health care professionals may be categorically individualized, however they should always uphold their area of expertise (CE, moral obligation, etc..)

Great point 👍 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Jim

 

[ProZackMI]

I'm just a general dentist and I can diagnose WPW, right/left bundle branch blocks, and Torsades de Pontes. Have no idea what I would do after that other than yell help......but....

There are also differences between schools. Dental students who go to schools that take classes with the medical student the first 2 years have obviously covered everything the med students have......we're probably really out of practice by graduation....You don't use it you lose it!

If you're a general dentist and you're diagnosing WPW, R/LBBB, and other non dental conditions, you'll find yourself in a world of legal trouble. I'm not sure what diagnostic instruments you would be using to diagnose cardiac impairments like RBBB, and I'm not sure why you'd want to, but even if you possessed the knowledge to do so, why the hell would you? I simply can't imagine why you'd even be given the knowledge to diagnose such things. I guess maybe in pharmacology?

 

[toofache32]

If you're a general dentist and you're diagnosing WPW, R/LBBB, and other non dental conditions, you'll find yourself in a world of legal trouble. I'm not sure what diagnostic instruments you would be using to diagnose cardiac impairments like RBBB, and I'm not sure why you'd want to, but even if you possessed the knowledge to do so, why the hell would you? I simply can't imagine why you'd even be given the knowledge to diagnose such things. I guess maybe in pharmacology?

These are pretty standard in ACLS.

 

[ProZackMI]

These are pretty standard in ACLS.

Cool. I never knew that you learned that stuff in dental school. I honestly don't know much about a basic dental curriculum, but like I've said on numerous occasions, I really believe dentists possess a comparable education to physicians. One could argue that one of the reasons why dental school may be more rigourous is that there is generally no residency to acquire on-the-job skills. Med school is basically 3 years of basic sciences and clinical sciences with one year of clerkships with the newly-minted MD/DO having to learn his/her true clinical skills in residency. Not true with dentists. The newly minted DMD/DDS seems to have strong clinical skills immediately after graduation and licensure. Maybe that, in itself, indicates that dental school is superior to medical school? Of course, I really shouldn't say inferior/superior since MDs and DDSs are highly skilled health care professionals. I for one respect dentists and think it's a very skilled, ethical, and demanding job. I also have a profound respect for dental education.

I'm an MD and I find it very offensive that many people believe dentists are failed physicians. Remember that Seinfeld episode with Robert Wagner? The one where Jerry said dentists are people who couldn't get into med school and are envious of "real doctors"? I have encountered people like that and, interestingly, many of them have, at best, a BA/BS. Only someone who truly ignorant would make such a statement.

I think you guys (DDS/DMDs) have a lot to be proud of and should never feel inferior to a physician. Never. Also, trying to compare dental school to medical school is not necessarily the most productive debate here. Both programs are rigourous four year programs, but they are also two different programs with a different emphasis. Don't worry about which program is harder. Be proud of who you are and do the best job you can.

 

[OwnageMobile]

i've always wondered.. there's this guy i went to school with who's now a med student and goes to my uni so i ocassionally bump into him.. back at school i was waaaaaaaaay more smart than he is.. now he thinks i am a life-form of inferior intelligence simply because i am gonna be a dentist....! 😱
what's with the superiority complex? and who put us in comparision together in the first place?.. 😕 after all i don't see them constantly trying to prove they are way better than mechanical engineers of pharmacists....!
so why us?

Where do you expect to get with such a question OP? "med students- why they look down upon us?" I am frankly surprised that this hasn't turned into a flame-war with that bait. Making such assumptions is silly and will not help anyone. I do think people will say that it is more difficult to get into medical school, but by no means should people "look down upon" others. Those who treat you like a lesser being don't deserve your attention. I would like to believe that people in general are more professional than that; maybe your friend will grow up to appreciate everybody on an equal level.

I have to go back to work in 5 minutes, where some doctors treat me, a nurse's aid, like a peon. I have little respect for that condesention, and have learned to avoid treating people in that manner.

 

[toofache32]

...Both programs are rigourous four year programs, but they are also two different programs with a different emphasis. Don't worry about which program is harder....

I agree. Like I said before, I'm not sure why it matters because the 2 professions don't overlap much and so there is really no competition. I'm just someone who's quick to correct med students who believe dental students "just do teeth." After 4 years of dental school and hearing med students make these kinds of comments, I somehow ended up in med school. Then I was surprised I could do just as well in med school with half the effort I had to make in dental school, so I never have figured out what the big deal is about med school and where the med student attitudes come from.

 

[ProZackMI]

I agree. Like I said before, I'm not sure why it matters because the 2 professions don't overlap much and so there is really no competition. I'm just someone who's quick to correct med students who believe dental students "just do teeth." After 4 years of dental school and hearing med students make these kinds of comments, I somehow ended up in med school. Then I was surprised I could do just as well in med school with half the effort I had to make in dental school, so I never have figured out what the big deal is about med school and where the med student attitudes come from.

I found a similar situation with law school after med school. I was not a biology major. I was a political science and government major in college and never wanted to be a doctor. I had to do a post bac MS in biomed science in order to get into medical school. However, once I was in medical school, I never found it that much more difficult than the undergraduate/graduate bioscience classes. The clinical classes were much more advanced, but the basic sciences were no more difficult than undergrad. It was funny, however, that while in med school and also in residency, there were tons of lawyer jokes made. I can't tell you how many times I heard "What do you call a lawyer with an IQ over 50? Your honour! Hahaha!" Most physicians either hate, fear, or feel superior to lawyers.

Yet, and this is something that was shared by a few other physicians who went to law school with me, I found law school to be much more demanding and intellectually challenging than med school. Why? Well, for the most part in medical school, it was memorization and regurgitation. Suck it up and then puke it back up with minimal digestion. No analysis or reflection. Pure memorization and regurgitation without much analysis. In law school, you learn a new language, a new thinking process, and an analytical way of approaching problems and issues.

So, in terms of having to do critical thinking, in law school, you have to do it all the time, whereas in medical school, you don't do critical thinking until clerkships or residency, not while you're actually in medical school. I'm not saying med school isn't hard or rigourous, but it certainly wasn't as hard as many physicians make it out to be. I found that most of the critical thinking done in my medical education was done in my residency program, not in school, whereas, in contrast, you beging engaging in critical thinking your first day of law school! Most of the MDs, DOs, DDSs, and PharmDs who were in law school with me agreed that the JD demanded much more critical thinking skills than the MD or DDS. So, now, I have a greater respect for attorneys than I did before law school. As with most things, it's a matter of perspective.

 

[toofache32]

I love Fred Sanford. And Andy Griffith. It's getting hard to find the old re-runs now.

 

[superchris147]

It was funny, however, that while in med school and also in residency, there were tons of lawyer jokes made. I can't tell you how many times I heard "What do you call a lawyer with an IQ over 50? Your honour! Hahaha!" Most physicians either hate, fear, or feel superior to lawyers.

well, that hatred is only going to get worse for the physicians, because i feel like in this day and age if you are a practicing physician and you never get sued your entire career then you are pretty lucky.

personally, i feel that the hatred physicians have for lawyers is much more justified 👍 than one healthcare provider hating on another healthcare provider.

it would be like if the guy in office space got sued for not putting his cover sheet on his tps reports, he'd probably hate lawyers too

i'm not trying to open up another off-topic debate, i just think that the comparison you made was pretty weak

 

[ItsGavinC]

I love Fred Sanford. And Andy Griffith. It's getting hard to find the old re-runs now.

Yes, Nick at Nite, TBS, TNT, Lifetime, etc. are making it difficult to find those old reruns.
😀

 

[UConn_SDM]

If you're a general dentist and you're diagnosing WPW, R/LBBB, and other non dental conditions, you'll find yourself in a world of legal trouble. I'm not sure what diagnostic instruments you would be using to diagnose cardiac impairments like RBBB, and I'm not sure why you'd want to, but even if you possessed the knowledge to do so, why the hell would you? I simply can't imagine why you'd even be given the knowledge to diagnose such things. I guess maybe in pharmacology?

I didn't say I "DO" diagnose people with cardiac pathology.....I simply said I "CAN". At UConn we were in the exact same lectures as the med students and took the exact same tests. There is essentially no difference between a D1/2 and an M1/2 at UConn for the first 2 years. We did full body dissection - I can name the external rotators of the hip, tell you all the muscles in the back, diagnose someone with an anion gap acidosis, tell you about Tetraology of Fallow, I know what labs I want to order with a kid who has ALL, polycythemia, etc, etc, etc.

Would I feel comfortable treating any of these.....of course I wouldn't. I've never been asked to or trained to but I still know a whole lot about 'um.

Warning - Diatribe time - Are all dentist trained this way? No. So far I have never asked a physician permission to do anything. I simply ask if he/she has the lab data I want and if not I order it myself. I know lots of dentists who will ask permission to extract a tooth if the patient is on coumadin - all I want to know is when the last INR was, if the dosage has changed since then and if they don't have it I order it myself. The one that bites my ass if the patient reports a murmur and the dentist calls the physician and asks do they want ABX prophylaxis when they should only be asking for the diagnosis and a copy of the echo. Will I eventually ask a physician their opinion about a patient? Absolutely, but I'm a firm believer in the dentist being responsible for everything he/she does to the patient and asking someone else doesn't excuse them if something goes wrong.

 

[toofache32]

...I know lots of dentists who will ask permission to extract a tooth if the patient is on coumadin - all I want to know is when the last INR was, if the dosage has changed since then and if they don't have it I order it myself. The one that bites my ass if the patient reports a murmur and the dentist calls the physician and asks do they want ABX prophylaxis when they should only be asking for the diagnosis and a copy of the echo. Will I eventually ask a physician their opinion about a patient? Absolutely, but I'm a firm believer in the dentist being responsible for everything he/she does to the patient and asking someone else doesn't excuse them if something goes wrong.

Amen. Preach it, brotha!!

 

[Bitters]

tell you about Tetraology of Fallow 😱


Good lord, that ruins an otherwise excellent post

 

[UConn_SDM]

tell you about Tetraology of Fallow 😱


Good lord, that ruins an otherwise excellent post

FALLOT....I'm 5 beers into Monday night football trying to pay attention to this and watch Philadelphia take an ass beating......give me a little break 🙂

I only claim to know some things about medicine - I still suck at spelling 😉

I hang my head in shame having lost all credibility 🙁