FORTLIVINGROOM

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$200 million since 2004 is only 50mil/yr.

That ain't much.




Why don't thye target things that actually decrease costs...like people who don't change their behavior.

Like the Medicaid pt who has Cystic Fibrosis and receives home infusions and is hospitalized...but continues to smoke and drink!!!:eek:

There is no reason my tax money should pay for this idiots health when they don't care enough about themselves to stop smoking.
 
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$200 million since 2004 is only 50mil/yr.

That ain't much.




Why don't thye target things that actually decrease costs...like people who don't change their behavior.

Like the Medicaid pt who has Cystic Fibrosis and receives home infusions and is hospitalized...but continues to smoke and drink!!!:eek:

There is no reason my tax money should pay for this idiots health when they don't care enough about themselves to stop smoking.

umm, it may not be much but i sure dont appreciate any waste of my taxpaying money. dont worry, you will soon understand...:xf:
 

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those people should go get jobs
my rules would be:
you can be on medicaid for 6 months, no more

id also make it a list of meds that it can pay for (mostly the older ones)
 

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You guys realize colchicine was grandfathered in, right? As well as ASA? I hate government waste as much as the next guy, but when we're talking about health-care we're talking about an annual budget on or around $1 trillion. $200 million over four years is incredibly small potatoes. Am I saying it's ok that Medicaid pays for carbofed? Not really, but we're not going to fix the system by starting at the bottom.

psu, you're just an ignorant *******. You realize Medicaid covers children, right? And the disabled? Yes, tell six year old Johnny he has to get a job by the time he's in third grade or we'll cut off his health-care. That makes sense. Or tell Jimbo to suck it up, he may have terminal cancer but goddammit, get a job. Right.
 

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I hate welfare.
An affluent college educated professional student hates poor people who are unwilling to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?! I'm shocked. I mean, you've had it tough, right? Why can't those damn poor people just get a job? Let's all hold hands and go read Atlas Shrugged now.
 

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An affluent college educated professional student hates poor people who are unwilling to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?! I'm shocked. I mean, you've had it tough, right? Why can't those damn poor people just get a job? Let's all hold hands and go read Atlas Shrugged now.

I'm fine with covering children, they shouldn't be made to suffer because their parents couldn't get it right. That's the only part of public policy I'll lean left with.

I mean, the things we could do with that money making our lives better. We can have fantastic transportation, better roads, airports, etc... Ok I sound like a tax and spend democrat now, but whatever.
 

meister

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I'm fine with covering children, they shouldn't be made to suffer because their parents couldn't get it right. That's the only part of public policy I'll lean left with.
So you do, in fact, have at least an ounce of compassion. That's good, you can work on that.

I mean, the things we could do with that money making our lives better. We can have fantastic transportation, better roads, airports, etc... Ok I sound like a tax and spend democrat now, but whatever.
Better than a no-tax and spend Republican, right? You're dreaming if you think cutting this $200 million is going to do anything to improve our infrastructure. You're also dreaming if you think we can gut any of the entitlement programs without serious problems. A better way to pay for the stuff you clearly want is to gut military spending. But no one wants to talk about that.
 

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So you do, in fact, have at least an ounce of compassion. That's good, you can work on that.

So what amount of surplus income am I allowed to keep to be considered compassionate? Is there an exact number or just however much of my paycheck the gov so generously lets me keep.

Try and guilt trip and name call all you want, I don't want the government digging deeper into my pocket book, call me cold hearted if you please. If I study hard, make good choices, take chances that increase my success I think I should be able to enjoy my financial rewards not be punished, God I am a cold hearted bastard.
 

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I should be able to enjoy my financial rewards not be punished, God I am a cold hearted bastard.

Haha, no...you're just not a socialist =)

I'm just against the general idea that my income goes to subsidize someone else's well being. Infrastructure everyone can enjoy. I'll make exceptions for catastrophic instances that are beyond your immediate control (ie you are between jobs, get hit by a car, and can no longer be a productive member of society), and obviously children.

Even in the first instance, you should've gotten disability insurance. Instead of doing that yourself, you make everyone else pay. Great!

and mesiter, i'm being a realist. compassion isn't free. get off your high horse thinking we should subsidize everyone's bad decisions in life.

maintaining poor peoples' health at minimal levels is a sunk cost, at least infrastructure, education, and research have tangible returns on investment. what better way to motivate people to be educated and productive by telling them they're on their own?
 

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1. Just beacuse you work hard does not mean you deserve anything.

2. For every un-deserving person, there is a family who is deserving.

3. I rather have that family get help so then they can become productive citizens (like many of us), rather than somebody who might be an undeservable and one day endanger my life trying to rob me for a few dollars so they can either feed their baby, or fuel their next addiction.

4. Without medicaid, without taxes, many of you guys wouldnt be able to make 6 figures to begin with so stop bitching. Who really would pay cash for their medications? Where would the demand of pharmacist and other health care professionals go?

5. There are more wastes than 200 mil over 4 years in the government. Lets start with military lunancy instead.
 
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confettiflyer

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3. I rather have that family get help so then they can become a productive citizens (like many of us), rather than somebody who might be an undeservable and one day endanger my life trying to rob me for a few dollars so they can either feed their baby, or fuel their next addiction.

Hence my wonderful free socialized health care plan for pre-natal to age 18...so we can throw you into the real working world healthy and productive.

Or we'll use the savings from cutting medicaid to help pay for college.

we'll call it "medicadonata" a quasi-portmanteau of medical + adolescent + pre-natal.

confettiflyer in 2012. i make barack obama look like orrin hatch. yes we can! i approve this message.
 

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You guys realize colchicine was grandfathered in, right? As well as ASA? I hate government waste as much as the next guy, but when we're talking about health-care we're talking about an annual budget on or around $1 trillion. $200 million over four years is incredibly small potatoes. Am I saying it's ok that Medicaid pays for carbofed? Not really, but we're not going to fix the system by starting at the bottom.

psu, you're just an ignorant *******. You realize Medicaid covers children, right? And the disabled? Yes, tell six year old Johnny he has to get a job by the time he's in third grade or we'll cut off his health-care. That makes sense. Or tell Jimbo to suck it up, he may have terminal cancer but goddammit, get a job. Right.

you want to know what confues me, how a family with 20 kids who just immigrated to this country can get on state medicaid. Oh yes, it happens, yep right here in florida. We're paying for our own citizens and other countries. Sooner or later, universal healthcare isnt going to mean for "US citizens", rather it will be global healthcare!!! Trust me, I am willing to help our citizens who need that little extra, but come on, fresh off the boat and they pull the gold card out, without a word of english??? Thats pushing it...
 

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I'm more concerned with the behavioral ignorance of pt's. Medicaid or not.

Uncle Bob, you gonna eat that bacon...you just had that "googol bypass" last month?

Ehh, I got me this Lipitor...I'm all set!

Just like the CF pt I saw a few days ago...people should not be provided healthcare funded by taxpayers if they are unwilling to change their habits and could care less about their own health.

You have CAD and eat McDonalds everyday? You die next MI.

You have CF and you smoke? You die next time you get pneumonia.

You have Diabetes and don't take your meds? You get gangrene and die...no amputations for you...too expensive.

I think it has alot to do with the inefficiencies of the US healthcare system. Pt's are not held responsible enough for their own healthcare.

2 cents.
 

confettiflyer

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I'm more concerned with the behavioral ignorance of pt's. Medicaid or not.



Just like the CF pt I saw a few days ago...people should not be provided healthcare funded by taxpayers if they are unwilling to change their habits and could care less about their own health.

You have CAD and eat McDonalds everyday? You die next MI.

You have CF and you smoke? You die next time you get pneumonia.

You have Diabetes and don't take your meds? You get gangrene and die...no amputations for you...too expensive.

I think it has alot to do with the inefficiencies of the US healthcare system. Pt's are not held responsible enough for their own healthcare.

2 cents.

Yup, totally agree. Then those crazy liberals would respond with, "You're blaming the victim!" Well...it's their fault! Eating well and exercising doesn't require insurance or physicians. Ugh.
 

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psu, you're just an ignorant *******. You realize Medicaid covers children, right? And the disabled? Yes, tell six year old Johnny he has to get a job by the time he's in third grade or we'll cut off his health-care. That makes sense. Or tell Jimbo to suck it up, he may have terminal cancer but goddammit, get a job. Right.

dont call me names, u dont know me

medicaid should cover up to 18 and tats it (but if mentally disabled, etc, can be on it forever), but other than tat , a person can only be on it for 6 months and no more....when i see a Rx billed thru Access yet the person rolls in a 30 grand SUV, the math there doesnt add up, when i see Access people telling me they dont have $$ for the copay yet have 10 packs of cigs in their car, the math doesnt add up, and i go on

Im all for medicaid, but with restrictions, its hard for me to post them all in one post, but i just thought of another one:

non-complaince, if u miss md appoints and dont care for your condition, any consequence will not be covered by the rest of us...its not my fault a person with a diabetic wound doesnt take care of it and misses clinic appointments and gets hospitalized every 3 months for wound treatment...same with smokers, if u smoke, u cant get govt help
 

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medicaid should cover up to 18 and tats it (but if mentally disabled, etc, can be on it forever), but other than tat , a person can only be on it for 6 months and no more....when i see a Rx billed thru Access yet the person rolls in a 30 grand SUV, the math there doesnt add up, when i see Access people telling me they dont have $$ for the copay yet have 10 packs of cigs in their car, the math doesnt add up, and i go on
Medicaid fraud is real and is terrible, I agree with you there.

Im all for medicaid, but with restrictions, its hard for me to post them all in one post, but i just thought of another one:

non-complaince, if u miss md appoints and dont care for your condition, any consequence will not be covered by the rest of us...its not my fault a person with a diabetic wound doesnt take care of it and misses clinic appointments and gets hospitalized every 3 months for wound treatment...same with smokers, if u smoke, u cant get govt help
See, now you're sort of getting off the reservation. You realize everyone does stupid crap like you're listing, right? I mean, should we not treat people if they break their arm skiing, I mean they knew the risks right? You make it sound so simple when it really is anything but. There are better ways of eliminating waste.
 

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Yup, totally agree. Then those crazy liberals would respond with, "You're blaming the victim!" Well...it's their fault! Eating well and exercising doesn't require insurance or physicians. Ugh.

As a crazy liberal, you agree with me!!! ahhh hahaha:banana:

You're getting us liberals (regular Democrats) confused with the ultra left hippe liberals of the LEFT COAST...like Pelosi and Waxman.

I support the right to carry, a large defense budget, and basic healthcare for all...these are common sense type of things.
 

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I used to be on the dole....Medicaid, too. I'd probably be dead if it weren't for it. Sure, my daddy worked...but you don't make much as a grocery store clerk. If it weren't for the minimum wage, I believe they may have tried to make him pay them to work. You always read about the ******* that exploits the system, but you never read the story about the kid whose life threatening meningitis got cured and went on to eventually get a doctorate. Hell, if all you do is read the news in your cozy ass suburban neighborhood or focus on only your worst customers, I don't blame anyone for hating medicaid, either.

I'm biased though. Rich kids make me want to vomit at how much they whine. And I define a rich kid as anyone whose parents made more than like $35k a year. So, yes, most of you probably make me want to vomit. I carry Anzemet with me at all times. It's mostly the "recession" looming on the horizon though. That **** has had me annoyed for months now. Oh, woah is me. The rest of you have to live like Appalachians have had to live their entire lives for a few months. Poor bitchy little babies. And some people are committing suicide over it. WTF. Oh no, a recession. I can't take a ****ing trip to Europe next Spring. Seriously. **** you. I swear to God, the next 18 year old I see driving around in an '08 Explorer their parents bought for them that complains about gas prices I may very well stab. Though gas prices have gone down, so perhaps all of the young silver spooners will be spared my hoopie-style wrath....

What the hell were we talking about again?
 
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confettiflyer

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As a crazy liberal, you agree with me!!! ahhh hahaha:banana:

You're getting us liberals (regular Democrats) confused with the ultra left hippe liberals of the LEFT COAST...like Pelosi and Waxman.

I support the right to carry, a large defense budget, and basic healthcare for all...these are common sense type of things.

Hey now, what's wrong the the left coast? Hmm...maybe that explains it. I lean right, so that automatically places me in the "right wing nut job" category by virtue of me being in CA. Granted, I did live behind the Orange Curtain, so leaning right = I'm practically a bleeding heart liberal.

Anyhoo...I think they key is BASIC healthcare. However, I've come to realize government can't change behavior. If people want to be racist, government can't change that; if people don't want to eat right/exercise, gov't can't force people to do either. What it CAN do is encourage people through incentives, and what greater incentive than telling people they're on their own?

Gov't should be helping people get educated, help them become productive, but like a good parent, should learn when to let go and not let them live at home rent free at age 27 fully dependent on them.

I just think that even partial self-sufficiency is a lost cause in this country.

Obviously, there are plenty of considerations to be made (disabled, children, etc...). WVU-- a kid with meningitis would be covered under the confettiflyer/Ft. Living Room plan. I don't advocate throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I'm just saying the system needs revamping with a machete.
 

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Good for you. Medicaid exists precisely because of situations such as your own. The government should not be in the business of kicking people when they're down, but trying to turn everyone into a productive member of society and to help everyone reach their potential.

raaarrr let me backpedal like mad from my original short statement of "I hate welfare."
Not sure a machete would be appropriate, but I don't really disagree with anything you said. Although, as I'm sure you're aware, Medicaid fraud is quite rampant in Orange County, CA. (I should know, I worked in a retail pharmacy there for five years and saw more CalOptima patients with Mercedes Benz keychains than I'd care to remember.) Be sure to remember this when you condemn wide swaths of society as being a drag on us all.
 

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Good for you. Medicaid exists precisely because of situations such as your own. The government should not be in the business of kicking people when they're down, but trying to turn everyone into a productive member of society and to help everyone reach their potential.

Not sure a machete would be appropriate, but I don't really disagree with anything you said. Although, as I'm sure you're aware, Medicaid fraud is quite rampant in Orange County, CA. (I should know, I worked in a retail pharmacy there for five years and saw more CalOptima patients with Mercedes Benz keychains than I'd care to remember.) Be sure to remember this when you condemn wide swaths of society as being a drag on us all.

This is SDN, not CNN. If i wanted to be PC and tip toe around everyone like a little *****, I would be on the latter. So, thus, I stand by "I hate welfare and want to go through it with a machete."

Emergencies and legit causes (children) covered by government isn't welfare, it's good policy. And yes, I saw the "Benzes and Benzos" in South OC as well. There were so many patients I wanted to slap upside the head. So many. Ugh.
 

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My pharmacy is heavy medicaid and a good number of those cases are BS.

Ive got one guy on the caid that rolls up in an S500 and another woman in a new vette drop top. Ever notice how the book of scrips that comes through your pharmacy is always from that dirt ball medicaid patient? The same one that doesnt do a damn thing all day but watch TV and slam beers while the rest of the country works their ass off to allow them to live such a lifestyle and keep them alive.

Ill agree that some cases are legit- like the single mother of children who works her ass off to put food on the table should be given assistance, but for people who have no children, are physically and mentally able to work should be made to work.

Sink or swim.
 

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See, now you're sort of getting off the reservation. You realize everyone does stupid crap like you're listing, right? I mean, should we not treat people if they break their arm skiing, I mean they knew the risks right? You make it sound so simple when it really is anything but. There are better ways of eliminating waste.

nope, unless a patient goes sking everyday, that analogy is flawed and cannot be made...accidents like those cannot be compared to a deliberate habit which has been repeatedly shown to negatively affect every organ of the human body
 

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Oh ok you're just talking in hyperbole and not really meaning what you say, got it.

as long as i vote/donate to conservatives, that's all that matters.


and loo -- hahahahah, nice link. gotta put those on those oil tankers getting hijacked.
 

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My pharmacy is heavy medicaid and a good number of those cases are BS.

Ive got one guy on the caid that rolls up in an S500 and another woman in a new vette drop top. Ever notice how the book of scrips that comes through your pharmacy is always from that dirt ball medicaid patient? The same one that doesnt do a damn thing all day but watch TV and slam beers while the rest of the country works their ass off to allow them to live such a lifestyle and keep them alive.

Ill agree that some cases are legit- like the single mother of children who works her ass off to put food on the table should be given assistance, but for people who have no children, are physically and mentally able to work should be made to work.

Sink or swim.

xactly, single working mothers can have it, the elderly woman can have it, kids up to 18, im ok with tat
 

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nope, unless a patient goes sking everyday, that analogy is flawed and cannot be made...accidents like those cannot be compared to a deliberate habit which has been repeatedly shown to negatively affect every organ of the human body
You mean like eating fast food? Drinking alcohol? Smoking? Where do you limit it? What is the threshold of "we will treat you for your MI" vs. "sorry duder you smoked a couple weeks ago time to writhe around on the floor in extreme pain"?

There's definitely a way we can better factor in prevention in our health-care system, I won't disagree with that. But it is much, much more complicated than taking someone's Medicaid away because they like to have a few beers every now and then. Or smoke a cigar every few weeks. FORTLIVINGROOM's point is that Medicine doesn't hold patients accountable for their bad choices, and my point is that there really is no way to do that other than if you're a complete sociopath. But we definitely need to do a better job at preventing things than we currently are.

For everyone else whining that patients are stupid and abuse their bodies: yeah, it's ****ing annoying and terrible at the same time. But people in general are stupid, ourselves included. What could we possibly do to change that? There really isn't a whole lot. But not going into health-care would have been a good idea if patient stupidity gets to you so much.
 
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xactly, single working mothers can have it, the elderly woman can have it, kids up to 18, im ok with tat

What about people over 18 that go to college? I didn't have health insurance for 7 years. I wasn't some loser that did nothing...I worked hella hard. 21 credit hours of school plus 32 hours of work each week during undergrad...no health insurance. Yet other kids that came out of some other vagina got health insurance through their parents until age 23 and only worked because they needed the intern hours. That **** is ****ed up.

I'd be cool with doing away with all socialistic endeavors...if only it means people can't share resources with other people, including their own children. I have no problem with rich people...they earned it...it's the people who luck into financial security that piss me off. I know people I graduated with that whine about how much their mortgage is after their parents paid for all of their college while I'm 6-figs in debt living in a trailer park. I understand...life isn't fair, everyone can't be born rich, blah, blah, blah. And that's fine...but seriously...some people need to STFU. God damn children in Somalia carrying assault rifles at age 8 for some war lord and people in the US are bitching about a program designed to increase another human's quality of life.

Actually, how about this...you are only allowed to whine about **** if it applies to you. So unless you are or ever were on medicaid, you aren't allowed to whine about it. I'd just be cool with that, too. Nothing disgusts me more than whitebred *******s who've gotten all the breaks in life complaining about the "lazy" poor. If your IQ is 75 and the only job you can hold down is a as janitor...man, if you go to work every day and contribute to society, **** it, you deserve at least a decent life.

But, you know, I'm biased. I actually know the hard working people that work 50 hours a week and still need medicaid to survive. They work a hell of a lot harder than I do. I just went to a cushy school for 7 years, then took a cushy job where I have technical staff do all my busy work.

But **** 'em, right? They should have worked harder to get ahead in life when they were young and their alcoholic fathers beat them every night. Perhaps we should just go one step further and euthanize the poor. That'll fix medicaid...

Did I mention I hate rich kids? I thought I'd throw that in there again...but that's my rambling catalog of paragraphs for the night...
 
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It seems that there is a lot of opinions on medicaid. So i will put in my 2 cents:

sickness knows no age, it doesnt discriminate based on age, race etc. Medicaid is there for a reason and should be used for people who need that extra help. It is there for students, mothers, children, disabled patients who truly need it. I dont mind that aspect whatsoever. I treat all patients the same whether its medicaid or whatever private ins. Now to the area i dont like and dont enjoy. I dont like people who breed and keep on breeding and let the state pick up the tab. I see it everyday so dont anyone tell me im ignorant. I dont understand how we can allow a mother who cant feed herself procreate with 3 different mates and have 6 kids and expect the taxpayers to pick up the tab. Yes, it does happen. Im not saying lets deny the kids aid, but jesus just stop procreating. Abuse of the system will never stop; medicaid is needed and isnt going away, but even 200 million dollars wasted is still money taken from the working american. Any waste is bad, so 200 million out of "1 trillion" is still waste and it will add up...
 

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Here in Canada, we've got a much broader social safety net--single payer health care, free drugs for welfare, disability, and folks over 65--and we have many of the same debates. Truth is, you got ANY social program, you're going to have scammers, and to a certain extent, you have to accept that (though of course taking steps to minimize them).

Sure, it burns my backside when a guy on welfare comes in to pick up his script, and when he goes to pay for some OTCs I see his wallet stuffed with fifties and hundreds. If these folks aren't a tiny minority, we have to get on the ball and fix that, but they are a tiny minority, with most people on social assistance (at least in this country), people who have, through misfortune, or illness, fallen off the bottom of the economy.

As far as punishing people who have become ill through their own bad habits, how do you do that, logistically, and how far do you take it?

I mean, if a non-compliant t. II diabetic ends up a blind double-amputee on dialysis, what else are you going to do to him to make sure he "gets" it?
 

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What about people over 18 that go to college? I didn't have health insurance for 7 years. I wasn't some loser that did nothing...I worked hella hard. 21 credit hours of school plus 32 hours of work each week during undergrad...no health insurance. Yet other kids that came out of some other vagina got health insurance through their parents until age 23 and only worked because they needed the intern hours. That **** is ****ed up.

i thought colleges mandated kids to have health insurance? but yea if u r in school working hard to become a productive member of society, im ok with letting the govt pay for ur healthcare
 

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yeah both my undergrad and pharm school mandated students have health insurance...they required proof of private insurance or else they just added it to your tuition bill. how common is this outside of the east/west coast? i always thought this was standard practice.
 

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5. There are more wastes than 200 mil over 4 years in the government. Lets start with military lunacy instead.

Excuse me!? Lunacy????? I sorry you think the military is crazy, or the fact that I don't deserve the pay I get for protecting you. Leave America if you don't like it, the true scum of society are people that don't understand what the brave men and women do for them everyday. Next time you have a though..let it go...
 

njac

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yeah both my undergrad and pharm school mandated students have health insurance...they required proof of private insurance or else they just added it to your tuition bill. how common is this outside of the east/west coast? i always thought this was standard practice.

I went to the University of New Mexico and the University of Arizona and neither mandated student health insurance.
 

Combatbarbie

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The way I see it is, that's life...the government shouldn't have to pay your way. (However I feel its OK for children and ******ed people.) I don't see medical care as a right.
 

genesis09

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Illinois requires all full-time college students have health insurance.
 

killerleaf

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I think some of you guys need to come live with me for a little while.

Then you could actually see what LIFE is about for MOST of the people in the US.

Believe it or not, there are a ton of people who work like dogs, day in, day out. They have a car, a roof over their head, and food on the table. They take care of their bills. But, they are on the edge. A catastrophic incident can mean the difference between life and death. Literally. Medicaid is a godsend for those people.

For that matter, as I consider my mother, who is in a nursing home, I consider Medicare/Medicaid a godsend. There is no way I could pay over $4000 monthly for her care. She has a long term disability policy, thank goodness. But, it will run out soon. So, we will be going "on the dole" for her care.

Sure, I could take care of Mom at home. Except, then I would not have a home. I would have to quit working to take care of her, as she requires 24/7 care. (She has had a stroke, and Alzheimer's)

There are tons of people living on the edge of poverty. If one person loses their job, it just doesn't mean cutting back on a few things. It can mean the difference between a roof and a car roof between you and the rain.

Stop and think about it for a while....
 

loo

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Eureka!

Thank you, DoctorM and Combatbarbie...Here's my new slogan:


Stop Procreating! OK for Children and ******s.

Killerleaf has it right...thanks for the perspective...
 
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