Medical Emergency on an Airplane

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Kobebucsfan

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so I was on a plane last week and someone in the front row needed medical help. The flight was already in the air and the flight attendant made an announcement saying "Is there anyone on board that is a doctor,nurse or a vet, we need medical help"

that got me thinking, if i was a dentist, should i volunteer to help ?

this might be dumb question but whatever

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i actually asked this exact question to the dentist i was shadowing. There were 2 dentists working in that practice. One said he would be legally obligated to respond if there was not a physician or someone else more qualified to respond. The other dentist said she wouldn't respond. So my answer is : I dont know, but I would prob do what the first dentist recommended.
 
If you have active CPR/AED certification, you should at least attempt to help. In most states, there is a Good Samaritan law that will protect you in case something bad happens to the person, but you should chime in. Or live with guilty conscience knowing that you witnessed someone die in front of you, if you have a conscience that is.
 
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I can imagine my self saying "I can help i am a dentist" and then people on board look at me like... "dentist are not doctors" and to not say f... all i would remain seated and evade hearing the ignorance of people! there is so much a doctor can do regardless at 20,000 feet
 
I can imagine my self saying "I can help i am a dentist" and then people on board look at me like... "dentist are not doctors" and to not say f... all i would remain seated and evade hearing the ignorance of people! there is so much a doctor can do regardless at 20,000 feet

This reminds me of Lost when the air plane crashes and Jack is the doctor helping everyone, and then the dentist is just standing there..... lol
 
I think it depends on your level of training. Many dentists I've talked to are ACLS (advanced cardic life support) certified. This means that they're trained to use a defib or AED, manage an airway using simple and advanced airway techniques, utilize IV cardic meds, handle different breathing problems under the embrella of COPD. So I think you can offer some help if you were willing.

Having said that - if there is an ED physician let them do the work lol.
 
OP: Chances are you will be BLS certified, and are qualified to help with basic CPR, so yeah, I'd offer my help. As for ACLS, even if you were certified, unless you actually put those advanced skills into use somewhat often, you probably won't be too competent and/or confident with them.

In all honesty, if I were the person who needed assistance, and they called for a doctor, and no MD/DOs were available, I'd rather they call next for a paramedic, RN, RT, or PA rather than any other doctoral degree holders first (and if I were the dentist on board, I'd hope for the same), chances are good that at least one of these practitioners will also be on board.

If you have active CPR/AED certification, you should at least attempt to help. In most states, there is a Good Samaritan law that will protect you in case something bad happens to the person, but you should chime in. Or live with guilty conscience knowing that you witnessed someone die in front of you, if you have a conscience that is.

Personally I would not help based on Good Samaritan, ever, it just isn't bullet proof across the board. Being qualified to help and having a conscience is different, both of which I completely agree with; though again, I wouldn't assume I was legally protected.
 
My understanding of the Good Samaritan law is that it applied to lay people and not medical professionals.
 
I believe flight attendants have BLS training.
 
For me, it would be a no brainer. If I was the most qualified person to give emergency care, I would risk my license in a heartbeat to try to save a person in distress. I would not hesitate to place an airway, administer meds, do cpr, place an IV and if flight crew were in contact with ER staff at the hospital the patient would be transferred to, I would perform any level of treatment they were recommending under their guidance. I would not be able to live with myself if I did not do what I was able to do as a healthcare provider and a human being.
 
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For me, it would be a no brainer. If I was the most qualified person to give emergency care, I would risk my license in a heartbeat to try to save a person in distress. I would not hesitate to place an airway, administer meds, do cpr, place an IV and if flight crew were in contact with ER staff at the hospital the patient would be transferred to, I would perform any level of treatment they were recommending under their guidance. I would not be able to live with myself if I did not do what I was able to do as a healthcare provider and a human being.

2nd
 
Risking your license seems to be taking things a little overboard, no? Personally, in a situation like this, I wouldn't feel comfortable risking my license and putting my family's well-being at risk for a stranger. Ultimately, I guess it would come down to what is protected and what is not. I would do everything possible without putting my license in jeopardy, but nothing more. Call it inhumane, but my responsibility to my family supersedes all others.
 
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Risking your license seems to be taking things a little overboard, no? Personally, in a situation like this, I wouldn't feel comfortable risking my license and putting my family's well-being at risk for a stranger. Ultimately, I guess it would come down to what is protected and what is not. I would do everything possible without putting my license in jeopardy, but nothing more. Call it inhumane, but my responsibility to my family supersedes all others.

To each is his own. I guess that is probably why you will never serve in our military as well. You probably wouldn't risk your life for another if placed in that situation - would you? I would.
 
I really don't see how someone can really deal with a person dying before his/her eyes and feel completely okay about it and walk away.
 
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Most dentists- I assume- are trained in basic emergency services. What to look for and what not to look for. How to take BP, heartrate, cpr etc. If there was a physician on board, I would let him do the job as he/she knows more, but if I were the only one, I would take my basic skills and try to make sure the person was ok.

We can't do much, but then again neither can a physician. We can check vitals, and see whether the person is in grave danger or not. Physicians do the same. After all- there isn't an operating table on the Plane with surgical tools on the plane. So yes! help!
 
Most dentists- I assume- are trained in basic emergency services. What to look for and what not to look for. How to take BP, heartrate, cpr etc. If there was a physician on board, I would let him do the job as he/she knows more, but if I were the only one, I would take my basic skills and try to make sure the person was ok.

We can't do much, but then again neither can a physician. We can check vitals, and see whether the person is in grave danger or not. Physicians do the same. After all- there isn't an operating table on the Plane with surgical tools on the plane. So yes! help!

On a plane, they will have basic emergency supplies. They will have IVs, supplies to establish an airway, basic emergency meds, AED, etc. You can do a lot more than just take vitals with the supplies on hand. An no, they don't have an operating table, but if push came to shove, the floor of the airplane would be the table.
 
I feel like you should only help if your qualified. Performing complex medical procedures on someone when you have no previous experience will probably make the situation worse. For example, I wouldn't recommend doing something like surgery to save someone's life on a plane as dentist. This isn't a movie. Your not going to magically somehow perform the surgery correctly without practice.
 
What if a woman were having a baby RIGHT NOW? What would you do?
 
What if a woman were having a baby RIGHT NOW? What would you do?

I'm assuming your talking about she's having it on the plane. I would tell her to lie down and push if she's having it naturally. Now, if your saying she's having complications and needs a C-section, I would not perform it if I don't know how. Like I said before, you will cause more harm than good if you decide to perform a procedure like that with no experience.
 
I feel like you should only help if your qualified. Performing complex medical procedures on someone when you have no previous experience will probably make the situation worse. For example, I wouldn't recommend doing something like surgery to save someone's life on a plane as dentist. This isn't a movie. Your not going to magically somehow perform the surgery correctly without practice.

That is not what is being suggested. Most likely, not even a surgeon would perform surgery on a plane. But, there are plenty of medical complications that a dentist should be trained to do that they may very well face in their practice. What if a patient has a heart attack? What if a patient is a diabetic and becomes unconscious? What if a person is allergic to something and goes into anaphyalctic shock? What if a person's airway completely shuts and you are unable to establish an airway? What are you going to do? Do you not think you won't be held liable if these patients die because you felt you were a dentist and weren't trained to handle these situations because it is the job of a physician? If you truly believe that, just open up your checkbook right now and give the family of the patient a blank check because you will lose a lot of money if something like these emergiencies arise and you do not treat them and they die because of it. In dental school, you are taught how to handle these situations since you might face them. You are taught which meds treat certain conditions. Now, IV's and establishing airways aren't necessarily taught, but any dentist in their right mind would want to get certified in ACLS just in case. I know I will. Therefore, you should be able to place an IV and establish an proper airway. If unable to establish a proper airway in the event the airway has swollen, I would have no problems doing a cricothyrotomy if absolutely necessary. I have never performed one, but on multiple instances in various courses how to do one was mentioned and shown. I know my anatomy well enough I would do one in a last ditch effort to save their life.
 
That is not what is being suggested. Most likely, not even a surgeon would perform surgery on a plane. But, there are plenty of medical complications that a dentist should be trained to do that they may very well face in their practice. What if a patient has a heart attack? What if a patient is a diabetic and becomes unconscious? What if a person is allergic to something and goes into anaphyalctic shock? What if a person's airway completely shuts and you are unable to establish an airway? What are you going to do? Do you not think you won't be held liable if these patients die because you felt you were a dentist and weren't trained to handle these situations because it is the job of a physician? If you truly believe that, just open up your checkbook right now and give the family of the patient a blank check because you will lose a lot of money if something like these emergiencies arise and you do not treat them and they die because of it. In dental school, you are taught how to handle these situations since you might face them. You are taught which meds treat certain conditions. Now, IV's and establishing airways aren't necessarily taught, but any dentist in their right mind would want to get certified in ACLS just in case. I know I will. Therefore, you should be able to place an IV and establish an proper airway. If unable to establish a proper airway in the event the airway has swollen, I would have no problems doing a cricothyrotomy if absolutely necessary. I have never performed one, but on multiple instances in various courses how to do one was mentioned and shown. I know my anatomy well enough I would do one in a last ditch effort to save their life.


The issue here is not whether I would be held liable or if I would lose my license. That doesn't matter to me. I am more concerned about if I would be capable doing certain procedures without training. The things you said about providing meds for certain emergencies is completely reasonable. However, performing a cricothyrotomy without ever doing it is pushing it IMO. Anyways, like you said, to each his own.
 
The issue here is not whether I would be held liable or if I would lose my license. That doesn't matter to me. I am more concerned about if I would be capable doing certain procedures without training. The things you said about providing meds for certain emergencies is completely reasonable. However, performing a cricothyrotomy without ever doing it is pushing it IMO. Anyways, like you said, to each his own.

If you know your anatomy, which I had gross anatomy in undergrad. Then taught the lab for 2 years. And had gross anatomy in dental school. I know I know how to locate the cricothyroid membrane. Like I said before, if it was a life or death situation, I wouldn't hesitate. There wouldn't be a need for it otherwise. Let's see - death or circothyrotomy when you know what you are supposed to do. I think the patient would rather live than die because you weren't willing to do a relatively simple procedure you felt you couldn't do because it wasn't in your scope of training. AGAIN, in an emergent situation where you are the most qualified healthcare provider.
 
Do you not think you won't be held liable if these patients die because you felt you were a dentist and weren't trained to handle these situations because it is the job of a physician? If you truly believe that, just open up your checkbook right now and give the family of the patient a blank check because you will lose a lot of money if something like these emergiencies arise and you do not treat them and they die because of it.

Not true. You cannot be sued for not treating someone if you do not have an duty to treat them - i.e., an established doctor-patient relationship. It's one of four criteria to prove malpractice:

1. A duty was owed: a legal duty exists whenever a hospital or health care provider undertakes care or treatment of a patient.

2. A duty was breached: the provider failed to conform to the relevant standard care.

3. The breach caused an injury: The breach of duty was a proximate cause of the injury.

4. Damages: Without damages (losses which may be pecuniary or emotional), there is no basis for a claim, regardless of whether the medical provider was negligent. Likewise, damages can occur without negligence, for example, when someone dies from a fatal disease.

Simply being on a plane with another person who has a medical emergency does not establish duty to act.

If you decide to treat that person, you are covered under the Good Samaritin laws that very from state to state, but are rather broad in their protection of people - layperson or professional, so long as you do not expect compensation for rendering care, and do not act beyond your scope of training.

Perfectly safe to help people without fear of being sued. Perfectly safe to ignore a request for help if you do not have legal duty to act.
 
To each is his own. I guess that is probably why you will never serve in our military as well. You probably wouldn't risk your life for another if placed in that situation - would you? I would.

It's funny you say that, because I am applying for the military as we speak. I have a desire to serve my country and serve as a dentist those who protect me and my family, but you better believe I'm going to make sure I'm trained on whatever it is I'm asked to do, otherwise I'm just a risk.

Now, if it's a life or death situation for myself (or a family member for that matter), then I'll do whatever necessary; if I'm dead, being stripped of my license has no affect on me or my family. But, I'm not going to put my entire career on the line by going beyond the boundaries of my knowledge or legally allowable participation, just because it's that romantic movie scene where someone just has to save this poor person on the plane--that's all I'm saying.

To reiterate, I would do everything I felt capable of and confident in (at this point, I don't know to what extent that will be, once having graduated dental school). But, I believe there is a point where you can go too far.

As you say, though, to each his own.
 
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