Medical Residency in CANADA,U.K.,AUS OR NZ for IMG?

[Nerdbomb99]

Hello everyone,
IMG from singapore here,i've learnt of the pathways needed to pursue medical residency in U.K.,AUS and NZ where i desire.Canada would need me to have a permanant residency,U.K. Would need me to work for 1-3 years on clearing PLAB,AUS and NZ would need me to 1st secure an internship spot,which i've read through forums is very hard to get.Keeping all this in mind,vital,course of life defining questions before i take a step to begin my journey to pursue medical residency in a country with english as the 1st language(other than the U.S.,it's already at the top of my list):WHICH amongst these 3 places is more accepting of IMGs to pursue further medical education in the current scenario?Which one of these places statistically has more spots for medical residency? Which one of these would be realistic to pursue with hopes to make it into residency?
Any responses will be greatly appreciated,
Thankyou .

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[Domperidone]

Lol. None of the above is "easiest". There is no easy. Each one has it's own unique challenges, that much I can say.

Just find what fits you. I mean, what sort of lifestyle you want, what do you want to do as a career, how long do you want your training to be. Figure this out for yourself then look at the countries accordingly. Then do more googling or online research on this.

Aside from that, have you ever lived or visited any of these countries? Any idea what their medical culture is like? ever shadowed any doctors from any of those countries? Or done electives?

It's not as easy as 'I'll go from being a medical student or resident from one country and waltz into a residency position with few issues' (I'm talking all other requirements or exams aside). that transition from student to resident is hard in and of itself. You have to consider how much you'll actually like working in whichever country you choose (based on what they're actually able to offer too). Also, whether you could thrive there with fewer issues transitioning. sometimes getting "there" is the easy part, surviving is much harder.

Aus and NZ both have exams too.
It's not just about getting an internship. To even get there, you have to pass their exams. then if you're lucky, you get an internship. Unless you're willing to work for free.
Medical Board of Australia - International medical graduates (IMGs).

Currently, depending on what you want to be when you grow up, many of the training colleges or "residency programs' in Australia would also require you to be a permanent resident first, much like Canada.

Statistics wise, it's easy to google.
If you're having trouble thinking of the right key words (for your own future searches later):
LMGTFY
Full summary's in the second link. Press Release: 2017 NRMP Main Residency Match the Largest Match on Record - The Match, National Resident Matching Program. Which is the second link.

Canada - LMGTFY. You can go through the R-1 Match results and see how IMGs do every year. According to what they apply to.

UK and Australian training systems are different to the US and Canada. It's hard to pull out "match" rates for IMGs for the UK foundation years and the Australian intern year.

For all Australian states, they go by priority groups. As in, all domestically trained students are placed for internship first (by state regulations, so by law). then finally any IMGs. Any spots left will likely be in rural hospitals (because nearly everyone wants the cities).

 

[Nerdbomb99]

What part of my text made you infer that i suggested anything was gonna be "easy"..or which is "easiest"..when you put something in quotes,you're actually quoting! the other person,that's common sense.What's should also be common sense to you that i've obviously looked into the details and pathways to practice medicine for imgs in those countries(which i mentioned) and have googled thoroughly about them.Also i didnot suggest at any point in my text that i can "waltz" into another country having a medical degree,which by the way was a cheap shot statement.I don't understand what made you assume what you did,or how you got to becoming a "bronze donor" talking in a ungentlemanly,provocative,ill-manner like that,and why the hell are you sending me a link to the nrmp match in the U.S.?,did you even read my post properly before dusche-ly responding?(it's a rhetorical questios,don't answer it,lol).You havn't helped one bit,only tried to make an uncalled,cheap mockery of my post.Do not please respond to any of my posts again "bronze donor".

 

[Domperidone]

oh boy...

bronze donor wasn't for a title.
it was a donation to a network I was actively using and wanted to contribute to the service it provides. Which I enjoy as a user. It has to survive on something, donations is one of them.

Apparently I don't know how to read

I work in Australia by the way.

I was genuinely trying to help you.
Or I wouldn't have written so much.
The links were there because you asked for statistics.

Anyway, your wish is my command.
I'm out.

Addit - you can just hit ignore user next to my name if you hate me that much.

Addit Addit - To use the phrase waltzing - um, I actually didn't intend for it to be a 'cheap shot' or to insult you. I actually meant it sincerely.

I got to final year as a med student (as did some of my classmates) feeling confident about working. The actual job is nothing like medical school. It was like hitting by a truck.

Similarly, for IMGs. you combine the transition with moving to another country. It's hard. It's harder than what they thought, and for me, as someone locally trained, I can't imagine that experience. So here I am, on the other side of the fence, attempting to reach out. Ever watch your co-residents fail? And there's nothing you can do as much as you try. I haven't worked with many IMGs, it's not exactly flooded with IMGs where I am. But I've worked with a few, some are amazing. Others, i've had to watch struggle.

Lol..I don't why I keep responding and rambling.
when i'm clearly unwanted.

And lol, based on reading some of the other threads & responses posted by OP, now i feel like i just got trolled.

I should repeat my anyway gif. time to do something in real life like get coffee or take a walk. then head to shift.

 

[Nerdbomb99]

oh boy...

bronze donor wasn't for a title.
it was a donation to a network I was actively using and wanted to contribute to the service it provides. Which I enjoy as a user. It has to survive on something, donations is one of them.

Apparently I don't know how to read

I work in Australia by the way.

I was genuinely trying to help you.
Or I wouldn't have written so much.
The links were there because you asked for statistics.

Anyway, your wish is my command.
I'm out.

Addit - you can just hit ignore user next to my name if you hate me that much.

Addit Addit - To use the phrase waltzing - um, I actually didn't intend for it to be a 'cheap shot' or to insult you. I actually meant it sincerely.

I got to final year as a med student (as did some of my classmates) feeling confident about working. The actual job is nothing like medical school. It was like hitting by a truck.

Similarly, for IMGs. you combine the transition with moving to another country. It's hard. It's harder than what they thought, and for me, as someone locally trained, I can't imagine that experience. So here I am, on the other side of the fence, attempting to reach out. Ever watch your co-residents fail? And there's nothing you can do as much as you try. I haven't worked with many IMGs, it's not exactly flooded with IMGs where I am. But I've worked with a few, some are amazing. Others, i've had to watch struggle.

Lol..I don't why I keep responding and rambling.
when i'm clearly unwanted.

And lol, based on reading some of the other threads & responses posted by OP, now i feel like i just got trolled.

I should repeat my anyway gif. time to do something in real life like get coffee or take a walk. then head to shift.

Well,now i feel bad.Offcourse you were tryna help,i wish you wouldn't have begun your response with that blatant sarcasm.I also understand where you're coming from as there must be plenty of trolls out there who post their queries/concerns without having done their homework and looking up stuff on the net.For making you feel un-appreciated for the time and energy you spent in writing those responses,i'm sorry.
You see the pathways although clearly explained on the net,there isn't much feedback from IMGs who gave it a try in any of the countries in question,if there is,there are contradicting experiences.When it comes to the U.S. any and every topic on medical residency for IMGs has been discussed,explained,debated.Like you have colleagues who have failed in their pursuit,i have plenty who spent years pursuing medical residency in the U.S. to come out short and regret the time spent.I just want to settle in a developed country with english as the 1st language and need to know which ones with all their demanded credentials,work experience etc. Are comparitively more welcoming to imgs.I've known people to slog it out in the U.K. to eventually settle in some middle eastern country.I am adamant about practicing medicine in a country with english as the 1st language and Singapore just doesn't cut it for me.Physicians from India i've spoken to have tell me even after specialising and having years of experience practicing,they tried out in Australia and couldn't so much as find a job.I was hoping the state of affairs for imgs is better in NZ..but then i just don't know.Contradicting,confusing opinions out there.Thank you for your response though,really.It was the post night shift sore me responding to your initial sarcastic tone.You did render guidance.

 

[Domperidone]

Aw,
well, glad we're on the same page now.
I can relate to feeling not like myself after night shifts, especially after a few in a row. I'm on them this week too, so very possibly my posts are going to come off as douche-y from exhaustion.

Some responses you get from these forums, is more a reflection of the responder's environment and experience. It's not purely a response to your post. which i think you know now, but I figure it helps to hear me acknowledge it too.

For me, i wasn't 'laughing' or being sarcastic at you specifically, it was more of...if I don't laugh about it, I'll cry. Because it's not easy watching people struggle through residency, and for IMGs - i know some will spend two years getting through AMC exams in Australia for instance. Then they get lucky and get an internship or residency position, only to find out that the job itself is even harder than the whole process they went to through to get there.

You could even go through some of threads in the US resident/physician forums posted by IMGs that made it to residency in the US, only to be put on probation or fail. It's really, really depressing to read. If you haven't read them yet.

there's imgs a dime a dozen trying to find residency in all the western countries you've listed, and some are going to struggle and some will succeed. It's not always possible to determine who gets a chance or who doesn't. who deserves a chance and who doesn't. it's even harder in the current job climate, where there's oversaturation in the cities.

So, sorry if the sarcasm offended you, but it wasn't intended to be mean. It was more, gawd, here's another poor soul that has no idea they're going to get eaten alive by the system one way or another on the journey. It's a lot of risk.

The opinions from other IMGs will be contradicting. It sucks yes, but it's the nature of it. Every experience is unique. Just as there is huge variability in doctors you meet - the good and the bad. Like any other job. There's simply no one story fits all or one successful route that everyone took.

Honestly, down the IMG path, a lot of it is based on luck too. that's part of what makes it so hard and so risky. It's not purely based on hard work and intelligence. Or even networks.

But, listen to the stories you hear. Continue to do that.
Just take it with a grain of salt.
India is a very different country to Singapore for instance.
I think you'd be much better off focussing on what other Singaporeans are doing, but don't discount the other stories you're hearing either.

Going back to what I was trying to say earlier.

I'm not saying, don't try.
If this is something you know you really want, and it sounds like you do.

Rather, if you already know that none of those countries are easy to gain registration in, then also consider which is the one worth fighting for. which will be the best fit for later too. Which one will make you happiest as a resident or doctor. You do the exam once, but you work in that system the rest of your life. If you realize you'll only be able to work in rural Australia if you go to Australia, and you can't imagine working outside of city. Well, there's not much point in going after Australia. Or, don't go to the US if you realize you're not going to like how many hours the residents there work.

Don't sign up for something that may make you miserable from the beginning, just because it looks like it has the easiest door to go through. Consider what the other side of the door will look like too, before you pour in all that energy and time to get through.

And then, visit one or two of those countries you've listed. Try if you can, to shadow a doctor there, even if for a week or a day. Maybe an IMG from Singapore who made it in the UK or wherever that is actively practicing. Ideally, if you were a student i would have said do electives and rotations as a visiting student in those countries first. Get immersed into the system and see if it's for you. build networks.

On a more practical level, there's not much more for me to add. You already know the roadblocks that the countries you've listed have with regards to PR status. Hence why the US is the top of your list - is what i'm assuming.

In terms of which country is most welcoming to IMGs.
I'd say all the countries you've mentioned are similar in this aspect. If it comes down to it, they're all kinda, IMG 'un-friendly' really, overall. All of them have IMGs that will spend years trying to get registration or job, and never get there. Because there's no doctor shortage across the board in any of them that requires them to hire outside of their own locally trained graduates.

There's maldistribution certainly. So within those countries, there will be iMG friendlier locations, usually ones that have no option but to hire them. Generally, rural places have a hard time attracting and retaining doctors, whereas the cities have too many doctors.

On the flip side, would you really want to work in a place that predominantly hires IMGs? It runs the risk of that particular place being so dysfunctional, it couldn't attract or retain anyone local. Not that its always the case, but it should nevertheless raise flags. At least think about it before you take up an offer at a location like that, for later.

Edited for grammar.

 

[Nerdbomb99]

I gotta say that was a very well composed, beautifully written post.It brought a good deal of clarity to my mind.I imagine a lot of medical students/grads from singapore are going to see this.Thanx! .

 

[Nerdbomb99]

Can anyone else weigh in on this? I'd still like to know which one of those nations have the most img intake into medical residency presently..I've gotten to know,evidently,the U.K. has a comparitively greater dearth of physicians and has made it easier for imgs to get into medical residency.To what extent is that info true?.I'm quite confused here,i'm going to be applying for the U.S. nrmp match,if i don't get in,i'm gonna be in quite a fix without any options to fall back on.I've been considering Sweden too(not Germany to be clear,Germany is the easiest option for imgs now,but i'm not considering it for personal reasons).

 

[Oxforbes]

Posting to keep in my history

 

[deleted390966]

Canada only accepts Canadian citizens or permanent residents for residency. First iteration - CaRMS

 

[LUNA25hawaii]

Can anyone else weigh in on this? I'd still like to know which one of those nations have the most img intake into medical residency presently..I've gotten to know,evidently,the U.K. has a comparitively greater dearth of physicians and has made it easier for imgs to get into medical residency.To what extent is that info true?.I'm quite confused here,i'm going to be applying for the U.S. nrmp match,if i don't get in,i'm gonna be in quite a fix without any options to fall back on.I've been considering Sweden too(not Germany to be clear,Germany is the easiest option for imgs now,but i'm not considering it for personal reasons).

Oh.. it is nice to see this thread, two members finally settle .. I was shocked at first, when you misunderstood "bronze donor" , because It is clear in his reply, he was trying to help, I am so happy to reply you Nerdbomb99, because genuinely made it up. well enough of this, forgive me. Actually I endorse what he is telling about Australia. But IF you are a Singaporean grad , I think you have a pathway to apply for AMC registration, please email AMC and the Australian medical broad or you can call them. There are other pathways other than AMC for graduates in Certain countries. In my personal experience, a lot of people where I graduate (Sri Lanka) choose Australia. Most of them become GPs in rural areas. But after you do some speciality training it becomes much easier than entering as an intern. They enter specialty training programs which collaborate with our health ministry( like the ministry of health directly requests to take our trainees, like that) I personally keep Australia for my second option even though my family lives there because I believe following USA residencies, there are numerous opportunities than any other country in the world. Statistically, it is very hard. But worth trying if you are willing. It is true, it is difficult to find statics in Australia and New Zealand. Well, you can check data bases in immigration departments, how many got PR though physician jobs etc.. these are my suggestion based on my personal experience. Stay strong... I mean decide where you want to be the most and fight for that, try to achieve that as soon as possible, most countries like fresh grads. But as I have heard NZ, and AUS like more experienced doctors. In numbers, USA takes the most IMGs. thing is most IMGs also apply there!
GOOD LUCK

 

[Medstart108]

Hello everyone,
IMG from singapore here,i've learnt of the pathways needed to pursue medical residency in U.K.,AUS and NZ where i desire.Canada would need me to have a permanant residency,U.K. Would need me to work for 1-3 years on clearing PLAB,AUS and NZ would need me to 1st secure an internship spot,which i've read through forums is very hard to get.Keeping all this in mind,vital,course of life defining questions before i take a step to begin my journey to pursue medical residency in a country with english as the 1st language(other than the U.S.,it's already at the top of my list):WHICH amongst these 3 places is more accepting of IMGs to pursue further medical education in the current scenario?Which one of these places statistically has more spots for medical residency? Which one of these would be realistic to pursue with hopes to make it into residency?
Any responses will be greatly appreciated,
Thankyou .

Why don't you stay in Singapore? Medical school in Singapore is already very hard to get into i'm sure you are excellent and would match well in the states, but Singapore is a great place to live and work. Canada is a closed door unless you have Canadian PR. UK is in effect a closed door since you are non-EU citizen and med school, dunno about Aus or NZ, US is always open as you know. Canada is open for fellowships however. Many foreigners come to Canada for a fellowship, mainly from UK, Aus, NZ, SA, India, sometimes from US but usually only for a select few world leading fellowships (Liver Transplant at Toronto e.g.)

 

[Nerdbomb99]

Hello people,
Those who have been following this thread,i'd like those in need of guidance and options to know that i very reluctantly,but wisely have chosen to pursue my medical residency(or Post graduation what it is reffered to as in to be mentioned country) in India.The bright side about medical residency in India is,one can specialise in ANY field depending upon scores obtained in a single 3 hour multiple choice question test.After residency,one can write the MRCP/MRCS/MRPSYCH/MRCOG etc. Royal college exams to practice in the U.K,AUS and NZ and other common wealth nations.Sadly,i've given up on my dream to do medical residency in the U.S. after the feedbacks i've gotten from people about the time it takes for Non-U.S. grads to ACE the USMLEs and the acceptance rate for non-U.S. grads..A dream crushed before i even quite began the pursuit(other than the clerkship i did) ,but,i guess one has to settle for something else not so bad in life.Those who are in a similar situation as mine,can p.m. me to understand why India.Good luck to everyone .

 

[Pepper04]

I’ve heard UK is accepting imgs after the Brexit. Atleast all the imgs have equal opportunities than before, now that they’d done away with the EU quota.
Then again, I haven’t researched any of this, all of it is word of mouth.

 

[deleted390966]

I’ve heard UK is accepting imgs after the Brexit. Atleast all the imgs have equal opportunities than before, now that they’d done away with the EU quota.
Then again, I haven’t researched any of this, all of it is word of mouth.

No, the UK is still having an agreement to prioritize EU citizens first.

 

[Somethingtothinkabout]

I realise that people already commented somewhat on this, but is it at all possible to get a research residency (neurology, pathology, immunology, etc) in Australia as an IMG, even if you have to work in rural areas, or are the only available spots in residencies ones for GPs? Does the PR requirement for residency apply to Australia also?