Medical School Admissions: How can I improve my chances?

[REL]

Thank you in advance...

I recently deceided to roll the ball and try to get into medical. I've always shied away due to the low admission percentages, but have finally deceided its worth a shot.

That being said, I would like advice on how to best increase my chances.

I have a 3.7 gpa good school
volunteered 2 years 20+ hours per week with aids victims
started hospital volunteering recently, year rotation
Ta'ed 2 chemistry courses
currently looking for shadowing experience
received 2 service awards in community

I have a year left of undergrad, what can I do in that year to distinguish myself as a competitive applicant?

I am taking a year off between med school and ugrad, how can i fill that time most effectively?

I am not interested in research, and therefore am not going to do it just to "impress adcomms". Is that a mistake?

Should i Join honors societies?
What other EC's do I need
Obviously a good MCAT score is needed, how good in my case?

Thank you for your inquiry. It looks like you are doing most of what is necessary to be completitive. Continue to show your motivation for medicine and others by your volunteerism and shadowing. Do something that will show that you are a team worker, but also some leadership qualities that can be used when needed. Research, not your thing, how do you know? I'd say somewhere between 60-80% of applicants have at least tried it. In a day where it is competitive to enter med school and where research experience is "normal" you might lose out on an interview to someone who has that extra edge. Look at your target schools and see what percentage of their matriculants have research experience and also look a the mission of the program, if the dont look at research you are golden. I wish you well.

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[REL]

Hello,

I applied to MD/PhD programs very late last year (November; 20 schools) and was rejected without a single interview. My home state is California. My stats are very low: undergrad AMCAS BCPM 2.75, total GPA 2.98. I also have several Ws on my undergrad transcripts. I had some personal problems and not enough focus at that time to pay attention to my studies. I completed my BS 7 years ago and have been doing research full time since then. At the time of my application I had a few publications. I should have a few more papers by the end of this year. I had also completed all of my course work for a master’s in biology at the time of my application but had not submitted my research thesis yet. My graduate AMCAS BCPM is 3.68, total 3.73. My MCAT score is 7V 8P 8B (23M). I work 60-80 hours a week so I didn’t spend enough time preparing and was a nervous wreck while taking the exam so I can probably do better if I take a formal course and study hard. As an undergrad I volunteered at a clinic where I had direct patient contact and mentored elementary school children but have not done any volunteer work since then. My work involves some clinical (speaking to patients) but mostly bench research. I want to do academic medicine, see patients and do research also, but I am not sure if this is possible anymore. Can you please comment on how I can improve my chances of getting into medical school? Thanks so much for your help!

Most combined MD/PhD programs are looking for very academic and very research oriented people that have a motivation for medicine and people. I am guessing your MS in Biology was full-time showing several super semesters of academics. Your MCAT must rise into the mid 30's to be competitive for most combined programs --- from what I know, they usually want MCAT/GPA numbers that are higher than the average entering medical class. The also hope to see med volunteering and community service, working to help others has become a huge focus for med admissions. I hope that this give you some insight as to where you stand. I think it is decision time, MD or PhD? It might be difficult for you to get into a combined program, but anything is possible. I wish you well.

 

[Doodledog]

I have a desire to serve rural populations as it has been conveyed in my PS, my own personal experiences and some volunteer experience. Now my LORs mention that I have a desire to work in rural/underserved populations, BUT they are all from either a doctor who I did research with or from a volunteer manager where I volunteered at a hospice. So basically my whole application conveys that I am interested in rural pops but no letter from such an experience.

How bad is this? Will it hurt me? (I mentioned earlier that I have rural volunteer experience, but just felt that I knew my other letter writers better).

Thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.

I wouldn't expect your LORs to be particularly related to your interest in rural medicine. This will come from your PS and the way you describe your experiences in this area. Most importantly, it will come from what you say in your interview and how you explain your past experiences and future interest. In other words, don't worry about not having your LORs comment on this.

 

[Doodledog]

Hi, I just finished my 2nd year of college and I currently have around a 3.1 science gpa and a 3.41 overall gpa. I know that it's low, and I'm determined to pull it up. But with the extra time I'm going to put into pulling up my gpa, I don't know if I'll have time to pursue extracurriculars.

The extracurriculars I currently have are:
- 1 year volunteering in a Hospital in high school (100+ hours, concierge)
- 1 year interning in the U.S. Senate in high school (100+ hours)
- 1 semester volunteering in high school at a multicultural high school, teaching children to read (50 hours)
- 1 semester interning in high school in a design showroom (50 hours)
- 1 semester volunteering in a Hospital Soph yr college (30 hours, patient transport)
- Currently volunteering for the summer at a Hospital (60 hours, ER and Cardiac Cath Lab)
- Secretary (first year college), Vice-President (second year college), and now President of my religious culture club
- Member of my campus' Multicultural Network

Problem is, most of my volunteering was in high school (school required it). I don't know if Med schools will even look at my high school volunteer experience. I want to do more extracurriculars, but I only have one more year until I apply. I don't really know how to find good doctors to shadow, or meaningful volunteer experiences (my hospital experiences haven't been amazing, mostly patient transport or desk work). I want to experience something while as a volunteer that will make me feel as if it is all worth it, not something I'm doing just to write down on my med school apps. Are there certain areas of the hospital that you would recommend volunteering in? Or maybe would you recommend clinics? Should I try and find private practice doctors to shadow? If so how?

I'm sorry, I'm just a bit overwhelmed. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!

I suggest you take 2 years to accomplish your goals, including doing well on the MCAT rather than try to apply next year. Your h.s. experiences will not be a significant factor in your application. Only you can decide what is a worthwhile volunteer experience, but remember that the experience is designed to give you an idea if the career is for you. What if you shadow/volunteer and decide not to apply to medicine after seeing what goes on? That would not be a "bad" experience necessarily.

Good luck

 

[REL]

Hi,

I recently finished my undergrad degree in California, and I am planning on applying to medical schools next year.

My question is about state of residency for medical schools. I grew up in a small farming community in rural South Dakota, but have been living in California for the past 4 years. Which state residency would help me more in the application process?

My hunch is that being a South Dakota resident could be advantageous, since many schools don't often see applications from South Dakota. On the other hand, I am planning on applying to a handful of schools in California, and I suspect that being a South Dakota resident would hurt my chances at California schools. Can you provide me any sort of advice on this?

Thank you for any advice you can offer, and I'd be happy to provide more information about myself if necessary!

Thank you for your inquiry. Each state has control over what is necessary to be considered a resident. In some cases, based on state rules, it is possible to be a resident of more than one state, likewise it is possible that one can be a resident of none for a spedified period of time. You should look into the residency requirements for each state as well as look to see if the schools you plan to apply to favor in/out state residents and what the cost factors are. In doing these things you should be able to come to some conclusion that is best for you.

 

[REL]

This forum is great! Thank you so much for your guidance in helping us reach our goals!

I have a questions about medical experience. I have an average GPA (3.5) with my sciences also being right around there (a drop my sophomore year due to an illness, leading to a major surgery and ultimately leading me to the medical field as a career choice). I have volunteered with a campus health advocate group for 3 years (1 year being a paid job as a student coordinator); I have started a chapter on campus dedicated to improving the mental health of students; 2 spring breaks spent building houses (one in Biloxi, MS after the hurricane, one in Tijuana, Mexico); 1 Christmas break spent volunteering in an orphanage and hospital in Tanzania; and only 40 hours of shadowing.

My worry is that there is not much experience in medicine/hospitals on this list. I am hoping to shadow another doctor next year, but worry about trying to take on too much and having my grades suffer as a result. Would you recommend I still try to find another medical location to volunteer at next year (I apply next summer).

Thank you!

Yes, more med clin vol would increase your competitiveness. You also need to increase your academics as much as possible and top it off with a low 30's MCAT. You can probably relax on the additional shadowin in lieu of the med vol at a free clinic, doctors office clinic, or hospital. It wouldnt hurt to get in some basic science lab research too if at all possible. I hope that these ideas help.

 

[REL]

To AdCom
I took the MCAT got a 30 (7 on VR), decided to retake it because of the verbal, but got a 27 (8 on VR). I know I probably should retake, and am in July 18th.
Now besides that, my GPA is a 3.54 sci and 3.53 cum.
I've done 4 months of clinical volunteering, but was exposed to some free clinic volunteering four times a year.
I have research experience for 2 years, and am an author on a paper soon to be published. (well maybe a few more, I'm listed behind the primary grad student, but in front of the PI).
What can I do to improve my chances for this year?
Thanks

You are probably on the fringe in most states so you really need to add a very solid MCAT. You clin vol is less than many and I dont see any community service volunteerism. Some physician shadowing would be an immediate positive hit. It might be that committees would wonder why medicine instead of research since your didnt put your time into medicine and doing humanitarian volunteering. It might seem that your main interest is research since that is where you chose to put your time.

 

[REL]

Hello,
I am going to be a junior next year (fall 2008) and am also in the honors college of my university. I am a Chemistry major with a minor in Psychology. I will break it down on how I have done so far.
Freshman year
1st semster GPA: 4
2nd semester GPA:3.9 ( a B+ in calc 2)

Sophomore
1st semester GPA 3.3 (a C+ in Vector Calculus and a B in Bio 2)
Organic 1: A Lab: B+
2nd semester GPA 3.74 (a B+ in cell Bio)
Organic 2: B+ Lab: A

I have a few ECs (leader in 3 of them) and am currently volunteering in the ER.
I also play in the intramural every year.
I have a semester of research experience and I will be assisting a professor at the Medical school of my state, south carolina (USCSOM) with research in Cancer Biology
I am also taking the MCATS next month (YIKES!!) which is early enough for me to take it again in June of next year if I don't do well.
I have a current GPA 3.74 but I will try my best to get it up to a 3.8 by the end of next year (junior year)

So my questions are:

1)Should I be worried about the C+ in vector and the B+ in organic?
I havent even thought about taking Vector again because it was a terrible year for me as I had the flu during my exams.

2)Do you think I have a shot at South Carolina med schools (ie MUSC and USCSOM)

3)What else should I do that would help me get into med school?

4) What other Med schools should I apply to if I have a decent MCAT score (32-34) with my GPA? ( I am not too concerned with getting into high tier schools)

Thank you for your Time

I am not an expert on SC schools, but if you work closely with your premed advising office and use the MSAR you should get a good feel for what your chances are there. One "C" grade will not kill you and your Organics are also survivable, maybe take biochem and do very well to put all of these to rest. I think I see a good basis of consistency in med vol ,, research, and leadership; add some physician shadowing, get moving on serving people in consistent comm svc vol. Keep the remaining semester in the upper tier so that the early sophomore semester is a simple blip. Bring a strong low 30 MCAT score. Focus.

 

[REL]

Hi everyone.

Well here's my situation. I am a chemistry major here in Indianapolis and I am going to finish undergrad either in December or next May (2009). Here's what I have to offer:

4+ years of volunteering (including at the medical-surgical unit of local hospital and other community service)
CPR certification
CNA (certified nursing assistant) certification, including working as a CNA for half a year
4+ years as a patient care tech at an acute care hospital
A semester of research experience
Extracurriculars including the Chemistry and Honors Club

Unfortunately, while I have the above to offer, my stats aren't too impressive. I have a 3.45 cumulative GPA (which I attribute to working 40 hours a week since I have to pay my own tuition) and I haven't taken the MCAT yet. I plan on taking the MCAT in September since I'm not ready to take the August one. What should I do until then (besides study hard) to increase my chances? My first choice of med school is Indiana University. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

As a non-traditional student you offer different things with your experience and often a more focused approach. You show strong med motivation, have done some research, you'll probably get credit for "shadowing" with your experiences as well as teamwork/leadership. I dont see non-med community service volunteerism --- feed homeless, hospice, food baskets, church outreach, habitat, etc. I am assuming your academics were full-time while working f/t, if so committees often factor that in and that can help your GPA a little. Strong later semester upward trend would also be beneficial if that is the case. Now the MCAT --- you got it, you need to do very, very well. You should also try to visit IU's COM adm ofc to let them know of your interest and see if they will offer an opinion on where you may need to improve to be competitive. Use the MSAR to scout IU and other schools that are acceptable to you, and that are non-trad friendly.

 

[REL]

Hello there,

I am a biology major/sociology minor, going into my third year and I am in an Early Assurance program with Drexel Med. I took physics I over the summer and received a C. I'm taking physics II during my spring semester. I haven't transfered the credits yet so without that grade I have a 3.649 GPA and a 3.675 in science. I've also been involved in several extracurriculars and last year I was secretary/treasurer of my class. This upcoming year I was elected Executive VP of Finance. And I'm also on the volleyball team. I've also done some volunteer work during the school year and the summer. And I'll be involved in Habitat for Humanity in the fall. Last summer I also interned in a state Nigerian hospital and I've shadowed a variety of physicians. This summer I've helped with two different research programs (one with anesthesiologist and another with a PhD in social work) and I'll have my name published in both. I'm taking my first MCAT in august.

In an attempt to save money I want to wrap up my school work this year (transfered college credits and AP exams helped). I'm hoping to apply for an EMT position and work there for the next year before hopefully matriculating into medical school. I've also been considering applying to a medical school closer to home, which has the benefit of being less expensive. The thing is I'm already meeting all of Drexel's requirements, which I know are quite minimal. And I also know that the MCATs are a big deciding factor, so I shouldn't make any big decisions yet. But if I wanted to apply to the other school (Hershey as it were) I know I would want to retake my physics class in hopes of scoring better and also improving my MCAT scores but then I would have to drop my soc class and lose my minor because this is essentially my last year. So I have a few questions:

1) Would it be more beneficial to have a minor which showcases my other interest and keep the C (and get a tutor so I could actually improve), or retake my physics and probably do better and forget the minor?

2) Besides the MCATs and grade improval do you think I would need to do more volunteer work in order to strengthen my application? Nothing that I've done has been over an extended period of time. I just have a variety of small things.

3) I read somewhere that med schools don't like younger applicants because they feel they would not be as prepared for its rigors. I'm not that much younger (18) but I was still wondering if that would play a factor at all if I decided to apply to Hershey.

Thank you for your time. I really appreciate any advice you could offer.

Thank you for your inquiry. Mostly med programs do not desire to see courses retaken and a single "C" will not prohibit you from being competitive. Do very well in physics II and then do well in biochem also and your initial grade will be forgiveable. Of course a 30 seems to be the competitive score on the MCAT so that will help with your strong academics to overcome that "C."

Most of the time minors have little to do with getting into medical school. We look for the actions in volunteerism and other things to determine your other interests.

Finally I dont think there is an age bias, but there probably is a maturity bias. Take time to live your life and enjoy. Once you get into med school and beyond your time to pursue other things will be more restricted for several years.

 

[REL]

I was hoping for some advice regarding class selection after receiving low, but unrepresentative grades on my medical prerequisite classes.

I am 24 years old and have been working as a research technician at Washington University School of Medicine since graduating in the summer of 2006.

However, my situation is somewhat unusual. My father works in the diplomatic corps and my family has lived overseas in Saudi Arabia since 1988. During the school year of 2002-2003, there were two suicide attack attempts on the consulate where my father works following the start of the Iraq war. I am afraid that I was under severe stress at the time, and performed poorly in almost all of my classes, earning a GPA of 2.6. Shortly afterward, I was placed on academic probation for poor performance and started attending counseling sessions with a school therapist. My grades improved markedly after that, with a GPA of 3.5 the following year and a 3.83 on my senior year.

Unfortunately, my weak year was the year that I took all of my medical prereqs. I have tried to demonstrate adequate preparation with subsequent upper level coursework (24 credits, average grade A-) and I achieved a strong score on the MCAT in 2004 (37Q, 10P 14V 13B). I also have a fair amount of leadership and clinical exposure, with participation in student government and two semester long clinical research internships at a level 1 trauma center emergency department. I have a BCPM of 3.07 and a cumulative GPA of 3.27.

In this past application cycle, I received 1 interview and was waitlisted, but was not selected for the entering class. I am quitting my job and taking 24 more credits of upper level science as a nondegree seeking student in the upcoming school year, but for the application "lag year," I am having trouble deciding between more undergraduate level classwork and an SMP.

Is there any advice you can provide regarding how to decide what to do during the lag year? Also, any suggestions as to how I can explain my situation regarding subpar performance would be helpful, as well as whether or not I should retake the prerequisite classes.

Thank you very much.

It seems like you are heading in the right direction. I would think that you should be in a 1 year MS in a full-time basic science discipline to show an organized approach. Save the SMP for the final gambit if necessary.

 

[REL]

First, thank you for your time. After reading through the threads (wow are they long) I have seen a lot of questions that kind of hit on what I can curious about but none that really get to the point. I apologize ahead of time with the length of my questions.

I am a non-trad applicant who graduated in 2004, but is now 5 years removed from my undergrad science classes. I am primarily a high school science teacher and have been for going on 5 years, but I also work second part time jobs.

I graduated with a 3.05 cum GPA and 2.75 science GPA and 168 credit hours, chemistry & education major w/ biology minor. I was young and enjoyed learning, loved being at college, just not so much the studying part.

Since graduating and finding some personal identity and motivation I have taken classes and raised my cum to a 3.1 and my BCPM to a 2.9 and now I have 179 credits(88 BCPM), my post-bacc GPA is 4.0 (all BCPM classes). I got a 33R on my MCAT (10vr, 12ps, 11bs) after completely reteaching myself all of the material. And I have nearly 300 hours of hardcore clinical experience working a major city ER.

On one of the previous "semi-solicited advice" threads someone asked "how much does a good MCAT offset a bad GPA?" and LizzyM suggested you could multiply your GPA*10+MCAT and compare your magic number to a schools magic number, (Average GPA*10+Average MCAT)-1, to get a rough idea of how competitive your numbers are.

I have a couple of questions:

1) Is there a cutoff for GPA below which even a good MCAT (LizzyM score) wouldn't help? If so approxamatly where is that cut off?

2) What weight is put on Post bacc grades compared to undergrad? Does that weight change as time goes on? Some schools will not consider (or give less weight to) pre-reqs >5 years old regardless of good grades, is the same true of courses with bad grades >5 years?

3) Is any extra consideration given to an applicant with more credit hours compared to one with less? (i.e. I would have to take years worth of classes with 4.0 to bring my BCPM GPA back up to a 3.5.) Is it to my advantage that I have 178 credits? Or is it actually so someone's advantage to take fewer BCPM classes undergrad? (i.e. don't take a class unless you either have to take or or you know you will get an A)

4) Is there any consideration given to applicants who work more than full time on top of their academics?

I appreciate your time and answers, thank you!

Thank you for your inquiry. Non-trad applicants are a different ballgame and your situation is not unusual. Do not try to raise your UG GPA's, programs will look at the post-bac UG work separately; grad work is separate too. Med programs understand non-trad applications and will look for the most recent work understanding that applicants mature and habits change. What they would like to see is an applicant that has academic viability and is motivated for medicine. It would be best to do 2-4 full-time semesters of academics to show a program that you are now much stronger academically, pair that with a strong MCAT and they will look at your application based on the numbers. Now for the motivation, working around medicine and patients is good, but they also like to see your "heart" for others. That is where volunteerism in a clinical environment AND community service are so important. Leadership, teamwork, shadowing, and basic science research are also important factors to have a well-rounded application.

Yes, programs do look to see what time you have based on life factors of work requirements, family requirements, etc., but they must see all of the above to convince them of your read aptitudes and desires. You have evidently done well in readdressing academics and acquiring a very competitive MCAT. Your academics could be discounted if they were not full-time if they dont see the other factors clearly. Maybe a full-time MS in a basic science discipline would be of assistance to you. Finally, try to contact the admissions office of your primary target programs and become a "known" to them. See what they want and how they might look at your application.

 

[Doodledog]

Hi there-

I have a question regarding LORs. I am a graduate student at a med school and I've found out that MANY of the people I interact with are actually on the admissions committee for the medical school. (Professors from my classes, docs I have shadowed, PIs in my department, etc.) So it turns out a lot of the people I was planning to ask for LORs are adcoms themselves. Can they write me letters, knowing that I am going to apply to that school (and others?) Is this allowed? Is it common? And (to make it relevant) does it improve my chances/ look good to have letters like this? I didn't plan it- most of these people, I had no idea they were on the committee until way after I met them!

Thanks a lot.

Adcom members can definitely write letters and do so all the time.. In fact, this is a preferred way for them to "speak" to the committee about a student that has worked with them. This way it is out in the open and can be evaluated like any other letter. It may or may not improve your chances depending on what they say. In general, a letter to a committee from a member on that committee is obviously going to be taken seriously, but on the whole, it won't have a big impact that they are on the committee.

 

[REL]

REL,

Question directly related to UCF's secondary. If u are someone like me or the person u responded to above, who has done a masters or postbac with a strong GPA but has a lot of below B grades from previously, how do you address that on the secondary?? Do they really expect us to have an explanation for each and every single grade or a more general explanation???
Someone sent me the prompts for UCF and I was confused how to address that.

Also if you submitted AMCAS and you are retaking the MCAT but meet the intial requirements with your current MCAT score, can you still get a secondary before the test scores come back for your most recent score? Or do they expect that you have your most recent score before they give the secondary?

Thanks.

Oh and if you can, can you send me your direct email address at UCF because I lost my old ID card and your business card was with it when it got lost. Thank you in advance.

In the cases where an applicant has had bad semester(s), a general description of what was going on would be better than describing each course.

A secondary will come your way once our tech group transitions your AMCAS ID into our secondary system. We'll send it to you via email as long as you meet the minimums. Soon all will get them whether verified nor not. Breaking in this new MS product and it hasnt been easy, but we're finally ready to open the throttle much wider.

 

[REL]

I'm currently a licensed clinical social worker and have spent the past 4 years working full-time in an outpatient mental health setting while doing on-call shifts in the ER, where I evaluated patients for psychiatric admission. I have also done a year of volunteering through Americorps (although it certainly wasn't clinical). My question is, will this be considered sufficient for both clinical experience and shadowing docs? I worked alongside both ER MDs and psychiatrists in these positions. Also, will volunteering at a local hospital benefit me at all?
Thanks!

Thank you for your inquiry. You have some good work experience and interactions with patients. Many schools look to see the "heart" of the applicant and volunteerism is a way to see it. Those who have a consistent history of medical and community service volunteerism to others helps a committee to see that you are willing to give without getting something in return. That helps when seeking to put a class of helpmeets and teamworks together for medicine and learning.

 

[REL]

I have several challenges to overcome: my current AMCAS cGPA is around 2.6 and BCPM is 2.4 because I repeated a few courses. I have also taken over 100 units and almost all of them at a community college, including all the pre-requisites and beyond. I have no official research experience and very little volunteer work. This year I am finally transferring to a university (UC in CA) and have been volunteering at a hospital since summer. I am also going to begin research soon. My major is in physics and most of my low grades are in upper division math classes (have near perfect record in biology, physics, and liberal arts). After two years at the new university with a near perfect record, my cGPA will still be around 3.1. I used to be a valedictorian in high school, but I floundered (or even foundered) at college due to a family tragedy that besides the psychological effects had financial ramifications that took a couple of years to overcome. I know, of course, that it doesn't mean I do not bear the responsibility for what has happened to my academics. Given this information, I would like to hear some honest opinions about my situation. I already know the obvious in terms of stronger extracurriculars and academics and would like to know if there is anything more that I should know.

Now for the specifics:

1. Madame on this thread mentions that CCs are viewed negatively mainly when students from a "difficult" university choose to take "easier" courses there. Given that it was not the case with me, what is going to be the impact of a CC on my admissions given that I took all my pre-requisites there?
-----Based on what you say the CC's are in the past, dont return. Continue full-time, higher level course work in the sciences, and continue to do achieve very strong results.

2. I have received Cs in about two pre-requisite courses. Is it a good idea to repeat them at the university once I transfer? Since these courses are in Organic chemistry, there aren't really a lot of higher division courses I can take instead of them, unless it is in a different subject. They will also help me prepare for the MCAT since it has been a while since I took those courses.
-----Best not to repeat course work unless absolutely necessary to obtain a strong foundation of knowledge. It is better to take upper-level course work in the discipline to show mastery of the subject matter.

3. I really like research and one of my jobs involves research in the aerospace industry. Given that M.D./Ph.D. programs are more competitive, should I give up the notion of applying under those programs given my academic history?
----- You can try, but you might consider hitting MD programs and then working in a PhD from that program. Many will allow you to do some research during summers and maybe even take a Leave of Absence for 1-2 years during medical school to do research. This is more often allowed after the 2nd year of the MD program, before you begin year 3.

4. I have been out of school for about a year and I have been out of school full time for almost two years. If I am able to achieve a near flawless performance during these last two years (or maybe three) doing upper division coursework, is there a possibility for medical schools to put the main weight on my GPA from the last two years? I am hoping that I can avoid the expensive SMPs.
----- Most med programs will put more weight on the more recent academic course work and, presumably, degree. You might consider a full-time MS in a basic science discipline to show continued academic success.

5. Finally, even with a strong upward trend, will I be automatically screened out from the majority of medical schools given a GPA of around 3.1? What is the lowest GPA I must have to avoid the cutoff, especially at the top schools? Some people have told me that the cutoff is 3.0, but given the average of 3.7, I am not so sure whether that is true.
-----You cant do anything about the past. Most programs will take a brief look at the trends in your academics. Some who are really concerned about their numbers will have to be convinced. This may mean you approaching them with a visit to let them know of your interest. Your best bet will be the MS as mentioned above as it will show your are serious and will continue the strong academic trend in a noticable way.

6. Due to my future goals in life, one of them being politics, I know that a higher ranked school will have many benefits for me. Would you say that my chances at these schools, like Stanford, are almost null (assuming I take control of my research experience)?
----- Difficult for me to answer this. But now you make me wonder: medicine or politics? It's not good to make a medical school wonder this, they need to see your strong motivation to medicine. Dont raise this question.

I have planned to double major so that I can take extra units before finishing my undergraduate degree to raise my GPA. At least right now my only goal is a US MD school. I have several specific reasons why a DO degree would be disadvantageous for me personally, even though I embrace many of the osteopathic doctrines while strongly object to others, like cranial osteopathy.

I would appreciate if a different adviser reads a response to my post and has a completely different answer or advice for me that he or she responds to my questions as well. I know that sometimes the responses are more personal than general and that's why it would be important for an adviser with a different opinion to post as well.

I am grateful to SDN and the volunteering advisers for this opportunity. Thank you all.

I hope the above helps.

 

[REL]

Hi REL:

You mention above that a person could potentially be a resident of more than one state?? How can that happen on a med school app? Don't you have to declare a state of residence on the application and with the address you use? How is it possible to be considered a resident of 2 states or conversely of no state? That would obviously be something to avoid, but I can see how it could potentially happen if you were not careful with the paperwork

You can easily be legally considered a resident of more than one state at the same time since each state is responsible for setting their criteria. Some states will allow you to be considered a resident if you own property and they dont require drivers license changeover, etc. There are many variations. AMCAS only allows you to make a single state residency selection. Most medical schools will send you a state residency affidavit for that state at some point in the application or acceptance process. Your answers on that state affidavit dictates how you would be considered for tuition purposes.

 

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Hello,

I applied somewhat late this cycle and will be submitting my secondaries this week. I was wondering if there is any way to make up for applying late? My stats are 32Q, 3.7 GPA and 3.8 sGPA, major in physics and will be completing my masters in physics this year. I have significant research and EC. My main concern is for MCW and other schools that value how early you apply highly. Is there anything I can do or send to these types of schools to try to make up for this, or would they just be bothered if I made any attempt and not offer me a position because of my timing. Thank you for the help.

While I do not know every process. If you have good numbers, you should get a solid review by the program. If they see the type of student in the EC's that they like, you shouldnt be hindered too much. If the class is filled before you get an interview, no matter. Most programs take a large number of their starting class from the wait list once all is said and done. If you are in great duress, send a short letter to the program regarding your extreme interest in their program, also providing a credible reason for your later submission of the application.

 

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Hi,

First off thank you to all the mentors in this forum; I read through some of this thread and the sheer volume of advice y'all are providing is amazing. Kudos to you!

I posted my question in the "What are my chances?" but I was encouraged to post here. In brief, this is my situation;

-AL resident, recent graduate of a Top 10 school

-3.35 BCPM, 3.4 cGPA; MCAT - 34Q (15 VR, 9 PS, 10 BS)

-Currently working 60+ hrs/wk in Consulting (strategy and management; providing strategic advice to clients in biotech and pharma; work depends on deep scientific knowledge and ability to scale up quickly on unfamiliar, scientific material)

-Two years of research experience at 2 different labs in college

-Limited volunteer experience (b/c I work a lot, not an excuse just a reality that most opportunities don't really allow for 10pm - 2 am shifts)

-Limited shadowing / clinical experience (this is primarily because both parents are doctors and I have seen their practice directly, but I probably can't list this as 'shadowing')

--------------

I am planning to apply this year (about to submit in fact) and I am trying to decide if I should just apply to my state schools (since I am late in the cycle + my stats don't seem that competitive elsewhere).

I am also trying to figure out what I should do in this period to strengthen my app if I have to apply next year. I plan to work on volunteering, but do I need to shadow? Do I need to retake the MCAT to address the disparity in my score breakdown? Should I apply to SMPs accepting for the Spring? Any other advice on what I can do to strengthen my app?

Thank you very much, in advance!

Anything I left out in trying to be brief is in this thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7226012[/QUOTE


You need to be convincing regarding your motivation for medicine if you expect to be accepted to a program. As it sits your numbers are not convincing and you evidently have not made it a priority in your life. Let me break this down:
Academics: Great overall MCAT score, but a 9/10 in the science portions are simply common numbers in today's pool. While I dont have the date regarding the entering class averages of AL schools, I would have to guess that your GPA's are not at the average level of the entering classes.
Extra Curriculars: Research appears strong, and at many MD programs, research understanding is desired, but not always a requirement. Medical programs want to admit those who have demonstrated a motivation for medicine that also have strong traits of humanism. That generally means that candidates that have a continued history of medical clinical volunteerism, some physician shadowing, and a continued history of community volunteerism is a strong requirement. In addition you will need to demonstrate teamwork and leadership skills.

If medicine is your goal then please consider the following to increase your candidacy. Full-time academics, probably a 1 year MS in a basic science discipline to show strength of academics; get out there and give to others. A consistency of giving yourself to others will increase your stock and also give an insight as to what type of classmate you will be. Most programs are looking for team members in a classroom.

 

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Hi, I have a question about expressing your love/interest in a school. what is acceptable and what is over the top? Also, how would one reassert their interest in a thank oyu letter? Thanks !

You can visit a program once, and maybe send a letter updating your application and including your desire to be in that program when you have something significant to add. You can let them know that it is your most desired program. Do not send weekly/monthly updates, emails, calls etc. Remember that these programs have thousands of applicants. They will not admire those who consistently contact them with minor updates etc.

 

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Hi, I'm not applying until next spring 2009 for 2010 matriculation and I have a question about the current clinical experience that I have. What exactly counts as clinical experience? I've done a lot of shadowing during college and right now volunteer at two places...one in a big medical center working with kids and another at a free prenatal clinic where I work on our wellness program projects like making medical brochures for our patients, etc... Do those count?

My only other experience that I know should count is a 3-month volunteer trip abroad where I worked in an underserved clinic taking patient history, assisting in basic procedures, scheduling follow-ups and dispensing meds, etc... I went for 3 summers - right before college, after freshman year and after graduating. Does it matter that what I do right now is not really clinical and that most of my clinical experience is abroad? I'm really having a hard time looking for a clinic that would give me the same responsibilities as the one abroad.

Thanks in advance for your response.

Thank you for your inquiry. It's good to have a consistent history of medical volunteerism over time -- this shows your heart for others as you give your time to those in need. This also applies to community service. The act of consistent volunteerism tells a committee something about the person. As for med volunteering you should try to get something that has some patient interactions and be around where doctors are. Free clinics are good places to help, your experience abroad are ok since they get you some hands on, but you need to keep volunteering in the states. Keep working with the kids at the med center, and also at the prenatal clinic make some inroads with docs to get into the more clinical end of the operation. I didnt see much about teamwork/leadership or basic science lab research -- both of these are very helpful in an application these days.

 

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I'm a first-year college student. I'm sorry if this question seems obvious, but I'm at a community college with no pre-med advisor (and all the advisors I've asked are clueless).

1. What kinds of EC's do medical schools look for? I've done some volunteer work, but I'm not so sure it's relevant. I volunteered at local libraries for 3 summers in high school, organized and ran a weekend fundraiser for world hunger two years, and have been very involved in my church, including teaching a children's class, raising money for cancer research, helping with kid's camp and many other activites. I'm currently applying to work ~4 hours a week as a volunteer at either a local hospital or its associated pediatric rehab/medical daycare. I also work for the school district taking care of children before and after school (a labor of love, since we are understaffed and underpaid). I know I need more clinical experience, but is there anything else?

2. I'm currently a full-time student (13 credits) working 2 jobs. Do I need to quit one of my jobs to take more classes and have more time to volunteer, or will my current course-load combined with my jobs be enough? (I am currently taking one science with lab, but next semester and the following semesters I will be taking at least two).

It is good that you have a HS history of volunteerism. You can look at the web sites of many MD programs (www.aamc.org is a good place to start for school sites) to see what they are looking for. Most will want a consistent history of medical volunteerism in a clinical environment, some physician shadowing, a consistent history of community service volunteering, some teamwork and leadership, and basic science lab research experience. All of this should occur during your college years. Ensure that you take 2-3 challenging 12-15 credit hour semesters and also about 20 hours of BPCM courses during each of a couple of years. Try to get some time with a premed advisor at a 4 year school where you will probably transfer to so that you dont lose some valuable time. They should be receptive to meeting a future health professions student with the initiative to be on the right track.

 

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Hi,

My story is complicated, so I'll start at the beginning. Starting college I was a pharmacy student, mostly honestly due to apathy. Prior to college, I had wanted to become a doctor, but I was a subpar high school student (academically), and didn't have any kind of confidence in myself to do so. My choice to pursue pharmacy was mostly due to a wish of my parents and an apathy on my part. My parents are consultant pharmacists and the business is based out of my household. I have worked for them a great deal throughout my life(>2000 hours).

In my first year at college, I realized that I really could achieve the kind of grades necessary to get into medical school (3.97 gpa first semester of college as compared to a 2.7 overall in high school). After that semester, I really became dedicated to pursuing medicine and the more I got into medicine, the more I was excited. In my sophmore year of college, I decided to double major in biology and pharmacy, thus being able to apply to medical school 2 years sooner(pharmacy being a 6 year program and biology a 4 year). Long story short, I have a 29P and 3.82 gpa, am a senior in college, and am applying this cycle.

My questions are:

1. In the two interviews I have had, I have been asked "why medicine and not pharmacy?" For me, it came down to 2 main things. Patient contact and being able to see the whole picture of a medical issue. This is how I respond to the question. Anyway, I was curious if my answer seems adequete and also whether any of the above story is pertinent to answering the question posed. For instance, part of me wants to give the interviewer the entire story, but I stop myself because my lack of confidence in high school is something that will probably be frowned upon.

2. Is the consultant pharmacy assistant position for the family business (which is on my amcas) seen as clinical experience?

Thanks. I appreciate any help.

Thank you for your inquiry. It would seem that your answers regarding why med vs pharm are adequate. You could also discuss that your parents are pharmacists, you see their life, and would rather have more to do with helping others in a more meaningful and significant way. The pharm consultant position is not clinical volunteerism. Clinical volunteerism should be in an environment where patients and docs are involved as much as possible. You should also shadow a doc for a few days to make sure that their profession is for you.

 

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I have only wanted to become a doctor for 3 years now, I took 4 years of undergrad study in Psychology with very poor advising only to find out that what I wanted to do would probably be better suited as an MD because Psychologists didn't work with patients in that manner. My problem is that I started a Med School persuit way behind and without any help. I picked up all the pre-reqs, volunteered only 40 hours in the NICU, have a 3.69 GPA and had no other background. I took them MCAT without studying (because I figured I had already had all the classes) and I did very badly...21N. Then I took a year off to earn some money, and I just recently took the MCAT again but this time I studied as well as I could with haven't a 50 hour job at the same time. Again I did badly, but improved...I got a 24Q.

I don't think I can get in anywhere with this score...however I am in Florida and we did open 2 new Med Schools (UCF and FIU) that are accepting applicants with 3.0 GPA and 25 MCAT. I didn't make a 25 but I'm close, will that work? Right now I need to know what to do because I am stuck. I don't want to work another year and delay getting into Med School but I'm faced with 2 choices (IMO): Take the GRE and go to grad school for Biology to imporve my Med School Resume, or sign up for another MCAT in Jan or Feb, try to improve my score again and reapply.

What should I do? or what should I be working towards?

Thank you for your inquiry. It is a short post and I do not know much about you, but from the above I dont see any motivation or compassion toward people or medicine. IMO if you were truly working toward medicine and have a zest for people you would have sought out the advice and would have been on the right track. My first thought is for you to evaluate why you desire to become a doctor, and if doctoring is it you will go headlong into making yourself competitive for an interview.

How to prepare a strong candidacy is no real mystery, but being willing to fully dedicate yourself to that pursuit is very difficult. What you have listed above seems simply to be to satisfy a checklist. I provide the following suggestions for you. Since I expect that your academics were not as strongly basic science based, and while you have done well, there may be an opportunity for you to obtain a second BS in a basic science discipline (60 +/- hours). This should only be done by not repeating any coursework that you have previously taken --- ergo you should work with an advisor to determine if this is possible. If it is not possible, then you do go for a MS in basic science area. Either degree should be full-time. Doing well should help a committee understand you academics and motivations, as well as give you a stronger foundation for the MCAT. Along the way you need to build a consistency of medical clinical volunteerism, ditto for community service volunteering, do some physician shadowing, and now days most applicants in the pool will also have some basic science lab research experience. There are no guarantees, but if you do these things you will definitely increase your candidacy. I hope that this helps.

 

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Hello to all. I'm glad to say that I have reconsidered my future as a physician and the possibility of medical school, but wanted to ask about my qualifications as they stand. I have a bachelor's degree in nursing from university of Arkansas for Medical sciences, with overall gpa for the program being 3.1. I worked part time at a hospital in health and fitness at this time, as well as maintained a long distance relationship with my now wife. Prior to I had a pre-med degree with an overall gpa 3.4 science gpa of closer to 3.2
I have been a nurse now for two years, worked in an intermediate care/stepdown unit in a medium sized hospital in north dallas, and post anesthesia recovery in a larger dallas hospital. I have yet to take my MCAt and realize that is a big piece. Initially I wasn't sure I was 100% on being a physician and changed to nursing, have since realized I am 100% having a lot to do with positive feedback from father-in-law and grandfather-in-law who are both radiologist, as well as my work experience.
What are the best steps two improving currently.(MCATs aside, I'll cross that bridge once I get there, I've started with study books ie. gold standard and will take in 4-5 months). Does my work experience count at all or should I focus on building my science classes back up? I have found all previous posts on this forum to be extremely helpful and want everyone to know that this site and its members are invaluable.

Christopher

Thank you for your inquiry. I cannot speak for every program but from what I have seen there are several health professionals that try to move from nursing/PA into MD and have a very difficult time with meeting the minimum academic credentials -- yes, especially the MCAT. Med schools are seeing applicants with very strong GPA's and ~30 MCAT scores and have larger pools as of late. Your experiences will be helpful, but you must convince them that you can get through the first to heavy academic years. Committees need to be right because it is very costly to everyone to make a selection on one that will not survive the classroom. If at all possible you would enhance your candidacy with some full time academics in the basic science areas to show the committee that this is a strength. Your previous GPA's are barely competitive. The additional coursework may also help you to score better on the MCAT. Programs will also want to see that you are a good citizen and will be a team mate in the classroom. This is most often shown by clinical and community service volunteerism. Finally most are coming to the table with some basic science research experience -- this is more critical at some programs. Do your research on what programs require of applicants. Visit a health professions office at an undergrad institution and spend some time with the AAMC/MSAR book -- or purchase your own copy at www.aamc.org. I hope that this helps.

 

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Hello,

Any advise would be greatly appreciated....
I graduated college 3 years ago and have been working for a large biotech company. Specifically, I have worked in the Quality Immunochemistry and Microbiology labs testing the quality of medicines before they are sent out to hospitals or clincal trials. Outside of work I am getting my Masters of Science in Biotechnology, and have had plenty of leadership and community volunteer experience throughout the last 8 years. Most importantly, this past year I have decided that I want to be a phyciatrist.

My concern is within my GPA for when I apply to Med School. My undergrad GPA was 3.05 and my science GPA was a 2.9. Also, over the 5 1/2 years of my undergrad career there was a steady decline in my GPA.

Since I decided that I wanted to be a doctor, I have taken 3 undergrad science courses and received an A, A+ & A+. In graduate school I currently have a 3.95 GPA (19 credits so far).

I am taking the MCAT in the spring.

Here are my questions:

What MCAT score would help balance out my GPA history?

I have heard that some schools (like USC) will weed out your application through a computer system if your scores don't meet minimum requirements. Typically what are the minimum GPA cut offs and how will my post-bachelorette and MS GPAs be accounted for? Will the computer take just my undergrad GPA or will it count my entire GPA (undergrad, postgrad and MS) before trying to weed me out? In other words, when it comes to receiving secondary applications, will my post-bachelorrette and MS GPA help me out?

Will my MS work help shadow my undergrad GPA?

What schools do you recommend I apply to that will be more accepting of my GPA history?

What are my chances of acceptance? Slim to none, 50/50, good chance???

Also....

I only have one day open in my schedule to volunteer this coming year. Should I spend more time volunteering at the local hospital or shadowing a psychiatrist? I will try to do both but is one more important? I have never volunteered at either.

I would appreciate any advice.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for your inquiry. I am not optimistic that you will be successful in your attempt for medical school this year for two reasons academics and medical motivation. You do have research experience, leadership/teamwork, and community service.

What to do? Academics are very important, especially at a time when there are so many applicants. To be competitive you need to show an admissions committee very solid academics in the basic sciences on a full-time basis for at least 3 semesters. This should also help you to be more successful on the MCAT. Now why medicine? You only have 1 day available in your schedule? Evidently medicine isnt a priority. You need to demonstrate your desire for medicine and dedication to serving others in a clinical environment on a consistent basis over time, and you need to do some physician shadowing also. Doing these things at a high level will help you to become competitive but there are no guarantees. Without showing the motivations and solid academics (including MCAT) you dont have much of a chance in this competitive time.

 

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This forum is very informative - thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions.

I will be applying to one year master's and special master's programs within the next three months and I am trying to decide between different programs. Are there any differences between how osteopathic vs allopathic SMPs are perceived by admissions committees? Specifically, how applicable will success in an osteopathic SMP be in addressing subpar GPA issues in an application to an allopathic medical school?

Thank you for your inquiry. The first question is why SMP? (My definition of a SMP is where you are taking a 1 year MS that places you along side of first year med students.) My opinion is that a SMP should only be attempted if you have a solid understanding of the basic sciences. If this is not the case, my recommendation would be to take a 1 year f/t basic science MS to strengthen your academics and maybe also for an MCAT retake. The SMP is a gamble and often a "last chance" option -- you must have a very solid basic science understanding to do well in a SMP. If you do not out-perform about 2/3 of the Med I class, you may very well have crippled your chance for an MD program.

Back to your question. I do not think that it matters too much. You want to get into a rigorous basic science, full-time degree, and do very well to increase your chances. You might want to check with the program to see if they will provide you with a final analysis of where graduates of that program have been accepted. Then contact those accepting schools and see what their opinion is of those students and the program that they came from.

 

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Hi, I am student currently attending my local community college and am preparing to transfer to UCLA with as a psychology major. My current GPA is a 4.0 and I have one more year to complete before transferring. Do you recommend that I complete my bachelors in psychology then go into a post bac program or take pre med reqs while at UCLA completeing my upper division psychology courses? Although I have a 4.0, I understand that academics will be much more rigorous at UCLA (or any University). I would like to maintain my GPA so what is the best route for me?

Best move is to spend your Jr/Sr years at UCLA completing your psych degree and taking all of your premed prereqs. This will show academic rigor that will be important to medical program decisions. Ensure that you also tend to all of the medical motivations, community service, research, humanism, factors that programs also weigh heavily.

 

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First off, very helpful thread. Hopefully I can get some guidance on the rut I seem to be in...although people continue to say "don't start freaking out until mid-January", I only received my first interview invitation today from a school I applied to last year. I am trying to plan ahead and figure out should I not get in, what to do next year. I've got a lot of questions, really.

My stats are as follows: 3.85 cum/3.73 sci undergraduate GPA from a run-of-the-mill state university, retook the MCAT after an initial score of 25 to get a 31R (10PS, 12VR, 9BS). I was president of my school's chapter of Tri-Beta, volunteered at a cardiac rehab facility, and helped organize school blood drives. I have been volunteering in a local ER for over 2 years because the clinicians actively make me a part of their work with patients and let me observe procedures and I enjoy it immensely. I work part-time as a medical technician in a group home for developmentally disabled patients, and work full-time as a health educator and social worker in a drug addictions treatment program for deaf patients. But I have no research experience, which I won't try to make an excuse for...it just didn't happen.

Schools I applied to:
- Rochester, BU, Georgetown (all of which rejected me)
- Interview in January for University of Maryland (my IS school)
- Nothing from: Wake Forest, Drexel, GW, Jefferson, Pitt, VCU, NYMC

I took the MCAT in August '08, which really delayed my application compared to most applicants this cycle (completed mid Sept-Oct)...so I believe that is why I haven't heard much as of yet. But I'm looking into what my Plan B should be because I want to add some research experience to my application, or possibly go to grad school (1 or 2 years) since next cycle will be my third and final attempt at applying to medical school (and I will be including DO next time...)

My questions are:
1) Should I be optimistic this cycle considering how "late" my applications were?
2) Is a 9 in BS going to hurt my chances substantially?
3) What about not having research if I have a significant amount of clinical experience?
4) Should I get a job doing research or go to graduate school next year if I'm not accepted?
5) My GPA is solid, but should I consider taking the MCAT a third time?
6) How do admissions committees view military health programs? I am currently considering the option so I don't graduate medical school with a substantial amount of debt (should I get in).

Thanks for sorting through the mess and helping me out in advance.

Generally you should be fine and your later completion should not hurt too much after all is said and done. Lack of research could be a minor problem for all programs, and major for those who require research. Strong, consistent GPA in the basic sciences is a strength as your other activities. You should acquire several interview opportunities. You might consider sending an update letter for your file that might include fall grades and any other information that would be helpful. In this letter you could have a short paragraph specific to your commitment to medicine and why that program/you fit one-another. Basically show some added interest.

 

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Hi -
Your insight would be much appreciated.

Brief background
I'm a non traditional student
Went to ivy league undergrad institution, graduated with a cum GPA of 3.83
During undergrad, had a lot of public health related volunteer work, working with children with chronic illnesses...included many leadership roles
Started putting my applications together for post-bac programs late summer and just sent them all in
Worked for four and a half years in the finance industry
Also just got "let go" from my job because my co decided to downside my group considerably, something I am happy about because I was planning a career switch anyway

I am not going to look for another paid job before I start studying in the summer. My plan is to get as much clinical exposure as I can over the next 6 months. I'm hoping this will take some burden off trying to get "clinical" work done during a 1 year post-bac program.

My question is - what do you think of my profile/background? I was talking to a doctor for advice the other day and he was really really skeptical of my finance career...basically he was questioning my "humanitarian" side.. It was really frustrating because I have a really long history of service, in high school and in college.. While I was working my 100+ hours/wk in finance, while I coudln't volunteer so much because of time limitations I led a lot of fundraising events, often raising over 10,000 dollars for health organizations.

I know I shouldn't feel so discouraged but I can't help feeling that way. Do you think med schools will look upon my past career poorly? I personally thought it wouldn't be counted against me, especially because of the rigor of the work coupled with my history of service.

Do you think it's a good idea to try to get in touch with some Admissions Directors and ask them what they think?

thanks a lot

The physician has good points that you must address. Med schools looks for solid academics and those with medical and humanist motivations. You must all of those in a strong manner to get an interview. Med programs will look at what you did with your time available. Your plan to max out on med and humanism while you can and still keep that fire lit to some degree during your post-bac period. Many programs are also looking for some basic science research experience in their applicant pool. A strong full-time post-bac experience followed by a stronger 30+ MCAT will be helpful in your quest. I would suggest acquiring a copy of the Medical School Admissions Requirement (MSAR) book that is published annually by the AAMC (www.aamc.org) to look at what each program requires and also to see how non-trad friendly that program is. The MSAR should also be available at med admissions and undergrad health advising offices. Trying to contact admissions offices is fine, maybe in person if possible.

 

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Please disregard my first post. I was reading all the other posts and decided to give more information about myself. Sorry!

Well, I am 24 years old. I completed UG in UCR in december 2006. I moved here from Asia right before UG, and that transition was very difficult for me. My high school record was very strong so even though I came from another country, I got accepted here. But, I am the first one in my family to enter college here in the US. So basically, I was very very lost in undergrad. I took classes just because my friends were taking them and did very poorly in them. At the same time, I was also very angry because I had not intended to move here but was basically tricked into coming. Needless to say, my grades suffered. The last year and a half, I was finally able to wrap my head around things and recovered somehow and even Dean's listed. Regardless, my gpa did not really improve despite retaking a few courses, and my entire UG gpa suffered with my BCPM was a 2.0, AO was 3.0 => total GPA at 2.6. (OUCH!)

Somehow, I got accepted to an MPH program in a very good school here still in California. My current gpa now is a 3.5. I also took my mcat in september but did not do very well (19Q) which is about what I expected since my UG science background was not very strong.

I have also volunteered in a county hospital while an undergrad, working in the ICU, Recovery Unit and the ER. All throughout UG and now in grad school, I have been working part time because my family can't really afford my studies. So I am working to support myself and to support them. Many times I wanted to quit so I can focus more on my studies, but that would mean a loss for my family. I have also been previously employed in a Research Lab (straight out of UG and for the first couple of months of grad school). Right now, I am also finishing my research in epidemiology as my master's thesis to complete my program.

I understand that my road of getting into medical school is very steep and almost impossible. My UG record really put a dent in my applications. But being a physician is really what I would like to do. I have tried to consider other career choices but my love is really in a clinical setting working personally with patients. I really feel that this is my calling. I believe that I will succeed in medical school despite the stringent training because I feel that all these things I have enountered in my life gave me that strength I needed. My enormous obstacle though is to get in to medical school. I understand that I would have to retake my mcat, although preparing for it will be very difficult for me since I would have to re-study basically everything taught in undergrad. Would going into a post-bac program help me?? Is there anything that would help me AT ALL?? I feel that I just hit a brick wall and I am at a dead end with nowhere to go. Can someone please shed a light to my situation. I would really appreciate it.

Thank you so much!!

All is not lost, and you seem to have some insight as to what needs to be done. Your early years of chaos here can be understood, you have had some obstacles and you have overcome, but now it is time to begin your ascent to being a strong applicant. I am not a huge fan of an MPH in your situation for entry to medical school, although an MPH is a very good complementary degree for a medical career. You should probably complete your MPH, taking as much basic science as possible, to show strength in science academics. I would then sugguest following with a full-time basic science MS to builid your science foundation to show admissions committees that you can do the science as well as increasing your chances on the MCAT.
If you think that you might have to retake some of the earlier basic science course work to do well in the MS, then do it. Finally, if your initial BS was not in a basic science discipline, there may be a chance for you to take a 2nd BS (another BS degree, but only the Jr/Sr year - 60hrs) instead of the MS. Work with a prehealth office advisor to determine what is available for you. Also keep the volunteering fires lit as you continue your education.

 

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Thank you in advance for your help.
Stats:
40 y/o F
Total GPA: 3.19
BCMP GPA: 3.66
MCAT: 27 L
14 year volunteer paramedic
worked as medical assistant/tech in ED/med. office for 4 years
last 7 years worked for family's business (not medically related)

My dilemma: I have 91 credits of low GPA (mostly from art school). Once I found science and returned to school, I earned an additional 100 credits of 3.67 GPA (explains the gap between the two GPAs). Graduated 12/2005, took me 16 years to complete BS. Some of my prereqs are 15 years old, however I have upper level science classes with in the last 5 years. Currently taking a 400 level immunology class. Can't afford special masters to make up for my low total GPA (can't afford masters program on top of med school). Applied late, have received only rejections, no interviews (no chance to explain my non-traditional background, other strengths, experience, etc.).

My question: If I retake the MCAT, I know I can do much better, and apply early, will that make my chances better?
From what I have read, taking a special masters program, to "prove" I can handle the crush of medical school classes, would be the most ideal solution, but that is just not possible for me. Am I just out of luck because my grades are too old? or do I have a chance with a better MCAT?

I am not absolutely sure about your situation so I will provide some of the basics that I think may apply to you. Medical programs want to be sure that each one from their usually large and qualified pool of applications are going to be able to complete the program. The first thing that they want to know is academics. You have past academics and newer course work, they will pay the most attention to the most recent work, but ---- you need to show that work in 2-3 solid, full-time semesters of basic science work at the BS or MS levels coupled with at least an average (30+) MCAT. With this academics the programs want to see you being motivated for medicine and others. This is most often demonstrated by a consistency of medical clinical volunteerism and some physician shadowing, consistency of community service volunteerism, teamwork/leadership skills, and moreso these days some experience in basic lab research skills. You should reference the most recent MSAR from the AAMC (buy one at www.aamc.org or visit a premed advisor or med school admissions office) to view the requirements of each candidate program for you, paying particular attention to those who seem to accept a goodly amount of non-traditional students. You may even visit some of the most likely schools to ensure that you understand what they want and that they can understand what you can contribute. I do not believe that retaking the MCAT only will significantly improve your chances, but you never know --- a mid-30's score might garner the attention of a school that pays more attention to numbers than to individual applicant qualities.

 

[NPEMTIV]

By the end of sophomore year:
-3.8-3.9 overall & BCPM GPA (completed all prereqs)
-honors program x2 (chemistry and humanities)
-150-200h clinical volunteering in major tertiary care hospital (consistent 3h/week for 18 mo.)
-150-200h summer of non-clinical volunteering
-1 summer + soph. spring semester of chemistry research (summer done on support from fellowship)
-2 semesters of biology research + poster at undergrad research symposium
-no pubs
-1 week shadowing
-RA 1 yr + on campus work (non-clinical) 1 semester

I am interested in research and academic medicine which tends to lend itself towards more competitive programs (Duke, Yale for example, both of which have integrated research/thesis programs)

Other info: studying abroad all of junior year (England)

Questions:
1) I assume that shadowing abroad would be less than desirable in comparison to shadowing in the US, is this the case? I plan to focus on more medical volunteering while abroad anyway, but should I wait on shadowing. The only thing is, I don't know when I'll have much time to do more shadowing before interviewing.

I don't think shadowing abroad (England anyhow) would be considered any less than in the U.S. Medical volunteering would be perfectly suitable while overseas. The reason for shadowing and/or volunteering is to make sure know what you're getting into so I think either would be good.

2) As far as the programs that I am interested in are concerned, no one particular section of my application is anything to write home about, although I don't think there are any really glaring deficiencies either, what could I do to come across as more interesting (in a medical sort of way, I have a couple of ECs for "well-roundedness") without being gimmicky, which is how I feel like people percieve some foreign medical service trips?

The best way to be more interesting is to do something novel. Pursuing some form of medical volunteering or heading up a medical project while overseas would be a great start.

3) Would it look bad not to do research while abroad? I kind of just want to enjoy that time but wouldn't mind being in a lab either and would definitely do it if it would make a significant impact

The problem I could see here is that If you are serious about research then taking a year off won't look good when you go into Duke, etc...and proclaim how much you desire to do it. On the flip side if you do some nice research while overseas (and maybe get a publication?? never know) then it would really strengthen what you say. The medical schools will be much more impressed with what you've actually done rather than what you say you want to do.
[/QUOTE]

4) I have a resident that I would like to shadow and think that it would give me a good perspective on what is maybe the hardest part of medicine i.e. residency, do I also need to shadow an attending? How long should one shadow before requesting a LOR, and can that letter come from a resident (not related to me at all, I only know this person in a professional capacity)?

I see nothing wrong with shadowing a resident, but I would stear away from obtaining an LOR from one. I would recommend your LORs come only from fellows or attendings.

 

[NPEMTIV]

I applied this cycle with 3.54 BCPM, 3.64AO and 3.58cum. I scored a 31P (10,10,11) on my MCAT. Here is a brief rundown of my EC's

President of a biology club (4 year member, 2 on E-board)
3 months vol. in ER (4hrs/week)
3 months in surgical ward (4 hrs/wk)
1 year in HIV research lab (footnoted for help in 2 papers)
radiology research with award for presentation
research award from my department
1.5 years independent research (no pubs or posters, sadly)
volunteer for breast cancer recovery program
UG chem and bio tutor
shadowed surgeon- 60 hours

*snip*

I have had 1 interview/WL at my state school, and nothing else. I am applying to a few SMP's (good idea for me) and looking at a few other venues. What weaknesses do you see in my app? Am i just too average? Any good ideas for improvement before (if i dont get off WL) I reapply this june? Thanks for the help!!

I think your stats and MCAT are fine. You have some great research under your belt, but what I don't see is a solid commitment to clinical medicine (i.e..volunteering, shadowing). You have about 100 hours total which isn't the worst I've seen, but I think it would be more meaningful to ADCOMS if they could see a bigger showing. With so many applying to medical school these days ADCOMS are going to try their best to pick people who can demonstrate that they understand the ups/downs/etc of being a physician.

Also, according to your MDApp several of your Secondaries haven't been completed yet. The timing of your application may be part of it.

Finally, if you are curious about a particular program I'd recommend calling and speaking with someone. Most ADCOMS I dealt with were very friendly in helping someone understand their thoughts regarding an application.

Best of luck.

 

[QofQuimica]

I plan on applying this upcoming June, and I am enrolled in an EMT class offered by my university this spring. I was wondering if taking the class is considered "clinical exposure" and whether it demonstrates interest in medicine. or would it only be of interest if I actually applied the skills as a certified EMT? I do want to volunteer as an EMT in the summer after I get the cerification, but it takes a couple months of training and I dont know if I have much time after school begins in august.

I would want to see you have some clinical experience where you interact with patients and preferably with physicians as well. If your clinical interaction consists of sitting in a classroom, that's not very helpful in terms of proving to me that you understand what it's like to work with patients or live a doctor's life.

Also, I have a 3.95 GPA from a big ten university, but an unbalanced mcat score (34; 8 in verbal). I have decent EC's and research, so I was wondering if I have a shot at the top 20 med schools, or whether I just shouldnt bother applying to them due to the low verbal score (I hear they screen out applicants with anything lower than a 9) I like to believe this is a myth, but I really have no idea.

34 is a competitive MCAT score. You should apply wherever you think you might want to go. Unless a school explicitly states that they will screen you out with an 8 in VR, you have no way of knowing what their cutoffs are, if they even have any.

I was also wondering as to how much a masters degree (pharmacology) could enhance my application.

You can basically think of it like a nice EC. It won't make up for poor UG performance or give you a huge edge just to have an MS. It's fairly common to see applicants who have MS degrees, so you won't really stand out as being unique just because you have an MS. But if you have published some papers, that can only help you, especially if you want to apply to research-oriented med schools.

Best of luck with your apps.

 

[REL]

Hello,

I was wondering if I should alert the adcoms at the school I want to get into that I have attention deficit disorder. The reason I ask is because my ADHD seems to affect me most during timed standardized tests...which is why the verbal section on my MCAT stands out like a sore thumb. I have a 3.74 cgpa, 3.7 sgpa and my MCAT scores are Bio:10 PS:10 V:7 W:Q So my verbal is low, but I earned A's in all my English classes and literacy-based courses.

Because the adcoms are probably wondering what happened, I was wondering if I should bring this ADHD to their attention as a possible explaination (but not go so far as to blame my ADHD for the low score). However, I am also worried that the adcoms may think less of me and worry about admitting me if they know I have ADHD. I would really appreciate some advice for this situation. Thank you!

You walk a fine line here with a very difficult question to answer. With larger applicant pools, programs have many options with the bottom line being whether they believe each applicant will be able to complete the program. Since there are a large number of standardized exams in most programs you may be hurting yourself by divulging your problem prior to acceptance. You will be given a chance to request special accommodation after acceptance, but before you start classes. You should know that the LCME does not give extra time on exams easily. I have seen students that had excellent documentation that were declined extra time. Sadly the result was that they could not pass STEP I and were dismissed from the program. It seems you have to have had this problem diagnosed many years ago for the LCME to even consider it.

Your GPA is average to strong (depending upon your undergraduate program) and if the rest of your med motivations, humanism, teamwork, bench research factors are strong you can overcome the 7 VR score, especially since many applicants seem to struggle in this section. You should contact your candidate schools to let them know of your interest and even send an update letter to keep your name in the field of vision. If this year doesnt work out, you know where to start --- dont know, but maybe some speed reading/comprehension might also be of assistance to you also.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thanks so much for your input. Background: I have strong GPA, 31 on the MCAT, lots of research experience, worked throughout college, etc. I applied last year and only got two interviews, with no acceptance.

Question #1: I'm interested in global health and helping the underserved. I have a LOT of experience in this field. Right now, I'm working at an isolated African hospital and helping an NGO bring docs from overseas. When I interviewed last time, my interviewer saw this as a definite negative: "You don't want to help the rich, too? You are placing judgment on the rich." How is the best way to bring up wanting to serve the poor without sounding judgmental?

It sounds like maybe this interviewer was trying to test how you'd react when challenged. Whenever you get asked a question that seems confrontational, always stay cool, calm, and collected. What you believe doesn't matter nearly as much as your explanation for your choices and the maturity and professionalism you display while you explain yourself. Don't get defensive with the interviewer or display any sign of being upset or rattled. Acknowledge the validity of their point, and then calmly explain why you want to work with poor. For example: "Of course the rich deserve optimal health care as well. I think we can agree that everyone deserves good medical care, regardless of their socioeconomic status. However, I'm especially interested in helping the poor because...."

Question #2: I'm a math and chemistry major. Because both require a lot of credits that don't overlap, I took very few non-science/math classes. How poorly will this reflect on me? Is this a major issue?

It depends. Most schools require a year of English, and some require other non-science classes such as psychology or other humanities. Make sure that you only apply to schools where your credentials meet their requirements. If you didn't take any English, you probably should, as this will severely limit where you'd be eligible to apply.

Question #3: Last time around, the interviewer seemed positive that I really wanted to go into math, despite my reassurances that I'm set on being a doctor. She criticized me for having my "eyes light up" when talking about math. Is this a fluke, or will the math major continue to hurt me? Should I downplay it?

The interviewer wants to test the depth of your commitment to medicine. You need to make it clear to her how your background in math will enrich you as a future physician. Think about what skills you learned as a math major that you believe could be transferable to working as a physician.

Based on your questions, it sounds to me like you are inexperienced at interviewing. Interviewing well is a learned skill like any other. As such, you may want to consider participating in some mock interviews so that you can practice explaining your interest in medicine and dealing with difficult questions you may be asked. Check with the career center at your college or your premed advisor to see if they offer mock interviews for students.

Best of luck to you.

 

[QofQuimica]

Hello I am in deep need of advice.

Here is my current situation: I am going to XXX University, and I have just completed my first semester. I got a 3.94 total GPA for the Fall semester. I am waiting for the next semester to start in a few weeks. I should also mention that my school is strong in the science department.

My question is: Should I try to transfer to a better school with better academic rankings, or should i stay at XXX ? How do medical schools look at these kinds of things? What if I could end up in a school ranked [higher]? The reason for my dilemma is that colleges reset your GPA once you transfer, meaning if i transfered to a better school my first year grades would not count in the new over all GPA at the second school.

So in a sense, if i did transfer, i would end up in a new unfamiliar school with a brand new GPA. Id also be doing the second year which means ill have to take Organic Chemistry and Physics. Now my fear is that in case i do not ace these courses, i will not have any previous semesters to balance out my over all GPA, and will no longer be considered a competitive candidate for Medical Schools.

Please let me know what You would do in this situation!

My personal philosophy is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You're doing tremendously well academically at your current school. Unless you have some compelling non-academic reason to transfer that you didn't mention, I'd recommend staying put. A 3.94 GPA will look good coming from any accredited four-year school, especially coupled with good ECs and MCAT. Congrats on your success so far, and keep up the good work!

 

[QofQuimica]

Hello Mentors. I am really greatful for you all and the advice in this thread. It has helped clear the fog for a lot of my questions.

My situation is that I have been out of school since 1999. I graduated with a BS in chemistry from a four year university, and completed all the premed courses required. My cumulative GPA was 3.49 and my science/math GPA was 3.76. My father was diagnosed with cancer my senior in college and passed away. My last semester in college was emotionally difficult, and that is the reason why my GPA fell below 3.5.

I've been working in non-related health field and odd jobs to help my mothers and younger siblings. Experiencing work life and just maturing has rekindled my desire to turn my life around. Also, I was recently diagnosed with ADD, mild depression and didn't even know I had it all these years. Anyways I am feeling much better and its like a fog that has been lifted.

My ECs in college: Accepted and completed competative Summer preceptorship and research programs at University of XXX school of Medicine and XXX school of Medicine. Volunteering for salvation army and big brothers and big sisters throughout college.

Do I have a chance of getting into any medschool? I would be happy with getting into a 4th tier school. Should I take any upper level science courses or post-bach courses? I don't really have the finances to pay for a full-time load classes but could probably afford a couple biochem and gross anatomy on the graduate level offered at XXX medicalschool. I'd rather focus all my energy and finances on studying for the MCAT full time and spending on review courses and books.

Your advice is really appreciated and I thank you so much.

What can I do to strengthen my application? I know a 30+ MCAT is a must.

First, I am very sorry about the loss of your father. The good news is that you are starting from a much stronger position than many nontrads do. Here are my thoughts about how you can improve your chances to get into medical school:

1) *Do* take some upper level science coursework. This should be classes taken at the UG level, *not* the grad level. The purpose of doing this is to have a string of recent, excellent grades to show adcoms that you are academically ready for medical school. It will also get you back into the school mindset and give you a chance to review some relevant science material. Your GPA won't go up much, but you are starting at a high enough GPA level that this is not your main goal anyway. Biochemistry is a good choice, as are statistics, psychology, medical ethics, physiology, pathology, anatomy, microbiology, and pharmacology. You should try to maintain an excellent GPA (3.8+) in this post-bac work. In addition, it is not necessary for you to enter a formal post-bac program. Just sign up for one or two UG-level science classes per semester at your local university, and you can go on from there.

2) Take the time and get the review materials you need to do well on the MCAT. Ideally, you will want to score a 30+ as you suggested. Make sure that you take multiple practice tests (available from the AAMC) under timed conditions. Don't take the real test until you are scoring in the range that you want on the practice tests. IMO, a review course is helpful for students who are not motivated to stay on a study schedule of their own, but they're not absolutely necessary. Many people do very well on the MCAT with self-study. Check out the MCAT forum for further tips and advice.

3) Get some new clinical experience. It doesn't have to be a significant weekly time commitment, but adcoms will want to see that you have recent clinical experience, and ideally volunteering as well. Volunteering may not be possible because of your financial situation, and in that case, focus on getting some clinical experience in terms of priority.

4) Start working on your personal statement early, around this time of year. Get several other people to read your PS before you submit your AMCAS. Submit your AMCAS early, ideally in June or July. Early applicants have more opportunities to get interview invites. At my school, we sometimes have late applicants who would have gotten interviews if only they had applied earlier before we ran out of slots.

5) Make sure you have stabilized any outstanding medical issues before you start applying to medical school. Medical school is physically and mentally stressful, and in particular, you do not want to have to deal with uncontrolled depression once you get here.

6) Apply broadly when the time comes. This means all of your state schools and any other schools that give preference to residents of your state. You should also consider applying to DO schools. Make sure that you get a copy of the MSAR and research each school thoroughly before applying. My personal opinion is that applicants who are willing and able to move should consider applying to schools in the Midwest and South. There are many excellent schools in these regions that get far fewer apps compared to schools in more desirable locations on the coasts. In addition, you may qualify to apply as economically disadvantaged based upon what you said about having to work to support your family. This will let adcoms know that you had outstanding hardships that may have affected your ability to participate in ECs.

7) Arm yourself with information. Applying as a nontrad can be more difficult because you don't have a premed advisor to guide you like most trads do. Take advantage of any advising services offered by the school where you do your post-bac, and make use of SDN too. There is a nontrad forum full of people who, like you and me, decided to go to medical school in their 30s or beyond.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you.

 

[QofQuimica]

Clinical Experience: how much is enough?

Majors: B.S. Biology and a B.A. in the Polish Language
Minor in Chemistry

BCPM: 3.74
CUM: 3.77

I am going in an upward trend. My worst semester was my freshman year where I took 17 hours total 14 of science and got a 3.57, all A's since then.

EC's

Habitat For Humanity - I do weeklong trips down to Bogalusa LA to build homes and am starting a chapter at my school for this organization.
60 hours ER shadowing in a City Hospital (Made a big impact on my decision)
Minority Association of Pre-med Students - Executive Board Position. I am not URM, but I am an equal rights advocate. We are nationally recognized and we are big on campus here.
Ecological research - I have been doing lake water quality research for 6 months now. I will get a small publication out of it.
Band Photographer - I manage/photograph a college band that my friends are in.

I have not taken the MCAT yet, but I test well and I plan on studying my butt off, a score above 30 is within my reach.


Clinical experience is how you show adcoms you are serious about medicine and you know how difficult it is. My desire to become a physician is rock solid, yet I am worried that because I do not have a ton of clinical experience like other applicants. Does this put me at a significant disadvantage? Both of my parents are foreign educated physicians and this has influenced my decision to go into medicine and has given me over the course of my life a lot of "non-traditional" clinical experience. Does it help me stand out that my parents are both immigrants and I am a first generation American?

This summer I will be continuing my research, interning for habitat, and I plan on volunteering at a local clinic. I will also get some clinical volunteering this semester through a group that cares for people who need permanent assisted living.

I always try my hardest and I hope that this is enough. So far - am I going on the right path? I will take a year off, and apply ten years in a row if it is necessary.

Yes, I think you are definitely on the right path. Your grades show a rising trend and you are now making straight As. You have a little research experience and maybe a pub. You already spent 60 hours shadowing, and you said you plan to do more clinical volunteering over the next six months. You have a very nice history of volunteering. Other adcoms may disagree, but your grades and ECs look pretty good to me.

 

[REL]

Hi, I'm actually new to using the SDN forum but I was wondering if you could help me out in assessing my chances of getting admitted into at least a mid-tier medical school this year.
Major: Public Health
Overall GPA: 3.8
BCPM GPA: 3.78
However, I have one C in the first half of organic chemistry which I took my freshman year but was able to pull an A- in the lab and A in the second half of organic chemistry during my sophomore year.
I just took my MCATs and I received a score of 34S (10V, 11PS, 13BS)

Some of my ECs include:
-1 year of research at a Children's Hospital
-1 summer of clinical research
-Started doing research for the trauma department at a county hospital last fall - possible publication in the summer, will start some shadowing in the trauma department
-Worked abroad in Africa one month doing health-related volunteer work
-Worked abroad for a paramedic company in Costa Rica for a few weeks
-Health Educator for 1 Semester for American Lung Association
-Established an organization at our university with a group of students, mainly for children with family members with cancer-held an executive board position
-2 Semesters as an undergraduate student instructor for general biology labs
-2 years teaching for a children's program, working on my 3rd year now
-1 year religious education leader (member for 4 years)

Graduated Cum Laude, Member of Phi Beta Kappa

I appreciate all the help, thank you in advance!

Thank you for your inquiry. Your numbers are competitive enough and you evidently have an interest in research. You appear to have an average amount to leadership and about the same for community service. So now, why medicine? Unless I dont understand, I dont see any clinical volunteerism in a medical facility where docs are around (I dont count the month in Africa); no shadowing either. You should have a consistent history of medical volunteerism in a clinical environment and some shadowing. I see this as a big weakness that may cause you some problem with MD admissions committees.

 

[QofQuimica]

Hello

I'm want to get into the medical field, I'm going to apply to mcmaster university for undergraduate soon. now....

I've been told that chemistry , biology and physics are important. I'm assuming it will come down to my *knowledge* and *experience in the medical facilities* that will contribute to passing my mcat test.

biochemistry , health sciences, and health studies are other courses that maybe be related to this field. Would a course like health sciences be a better choice?Are the courses mentioned above the right choice?

thank you.

It's great that you're starting to think about career options now. If you haven't checked it out already, SDN has a high school forum (hSDN) that you may find helpful.

To answer your question, the MCAT tests you somewhat on your science knowledge, but it mostly tests you on your reasoning and critical thinking skills. The only courses required to prepare for the MCAT are a year each of physics, gen chem, organic chem, and biology. Any other courses like biochem may be somewhat helpful, but they aren't necessary.

There is no component of the MCAT that tests your experience in medical facilities. However, your exposure to medicine and clinical experience will be considered by adcoms when you apply to medical school, so you do need to arrange to get some kind of shadowing or volunteer experience in a clinical setting.

For more information on preparing for the MCAT, please visit the SDN MCAT forum. For more information on preparing for medical school as a college student, please visit the SDN Pre-Allopathic and/or Pre-Osteopathic forums. There are several excellent and informative stickied threads in each of these forums that will answer many of your questions about being a premed. Best of luck to you.

 

[QofQuimica]

Hello, first time one these forums, but I'm learning a lot already.

I'm a second year Physiological Sciences student with about a 3.6 overall GPA. Decent, but my problem is that I haven't done ANY extracurriculars over the past two years in college, and this worries me. I never expected this moment to come by so quickly, so I always felt like I had more time than I actually did. But now Im getting involved ASAP, and one area Im trying to focus on is clinical experience.

Option 1 is become an EMT. I would take very rigorous courses over the summer so that I could enter the EMT program at my school during my third year. It's very time consuming, but it would give me steady and practical clinical experience for at least a year. Cost=$1000 (for classes)

Option 2 is go to Nicaragua. My school has this great program in which students fly over there and provide medical services to rural areas without these kinds of services. We'd be working alongside licensed professionals, getting a feel for medical equipment and procedures, and helping out kids in need. It lasts 12 days, and from what I can imagine it should be a life changing experience. Cost=$1700 all expenses paid.

Money is a big issue for me, and if I did manage to get money, I could definitely only do one of the two. Being an EMT is time consuming, but it's cheaper and provides long term clinical experience. Nicaragua on the other hand would give me valuable perspective on the medical profession, but is VERY pricey and only provides 12 days of clinical experience.

My question is: If I'm going to be investing this much time and money, what would be the best option? Which do you think would be more personally gratifying? And of course, what would med schools think or want to see more?

I'd appreciate any input, thanks!

It's great that you recognize the importance of ECs, particularly clinical ECs, in medical school admissions. Here is my take on your options:

1) Becoming an EMT is a worthy way of gaining clinical experience, *if* you truly want to commit to working as an EMT. In other words, if you plan to complete the summer training for a few months but then never work as an EMT, it doesn't make much sense to go through the program. So, I would only do this training if you plan to work as an EMT long-term during and/or after you finish college.

2) The trip to Nicaragua sounds exciting, and I'm sure it would be a fun and interesting vacation for you. But in terms of providing you with a way to show your commitment to a clinical career, it won't be very useful.

In general, adcoms like to see applicants who show *commitment* and *passion* for their ECs. It is fine if you have only one or two ECs, and you devote a lot of time to them. But seeing an applicant jump from here to there, never really devoting him/herself to anything, doesn't exactly reassure me that you're going to contribute to your community as a medical student and beyond. Does that make sense?

I assume (and hope!) when you say "personally gratifying" that what you really mean is "most meaningful in the long term." I can't answer that question for you. I would humbly suggest, however, that this is the wrong question to ask. You find meaning from what you put into an activity, not from what you take out of it. Again, finding an EC that you love and committing yourself to participating in it over the long term is what will make it meaningful for you. The EC you pick should be something that makes your eyes light up when I ask you about it at your interview.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you.

 

[scoutnj19]

Hey!

I've posted a few times, but now that I'm getting closer to my actual application I thought I would ask some more pointed questions.

I am 24. I have a BA in Print Communications and decided in the summer before my senior year to become a physician. I finished my degree and the next fall began pursuing post-bacc courses to meet pre-reqs and prepare for the MCAT. I had a cGPA of 3.64 (3.85 in my degree) and will end up with a bcpmGPA of around 3.65-3.70. I completed the post-bacc at two different schools (my wife and I moved to Kansas in between).

During my undergrad, I volunteered for four years as a tutor for ESL kids in an inner-city community. I also spent four years working for the school newspaper and eventually becoming an editor. Following this, I worked for 10 months for a Massachusetts health insurance initiative assisting the public, business leaders and brokers alike get a grasp of new legislation that required citizens to have health insurance.

Following this, I enrolled in my first year of post-bacc. During this time, I volunteered with the American Diabetes Association, assisting in the planning and function of many of their fundraising and informational events. I also volunteered for four months at a local hospital in the ER tending to patient needs and the like.

Since moving to Kansas, I have completed my second year of post-bacc at KU. I have shadowed a local surgeon during his in-clinic visits since October, and have also observed numerous surgeries during that time. Additionally, I have volunteered in a social services role for a local free health clinic assisting patients find permanent physician care, etc.

All throughout the time of completing my post-bacc I have worked part-time (and sometimes full-time) for a locum tenens firm as a marketing officer. This has been at least a 20 hour commitment each week.

All of this is provide some background to help you better answer my questions...

First... I know this has been asked countless times in numerous different ways, but I'm curious as to how many different ECs and how much clinical experience is enough? Is what I have enough? I was also involved in Rec-IM and numerous communications-based clubs during my undergrad.

Additionally, will the fact that I've been working during my post-bacc be considered when looking at my bcpmGPA?

Second... I'm taking the MCAT this Friday. I plan on applying early decision this cycle to KU Med. Should I wait to submit my app until I get my scores back? If I unfortunately don't do well enough, would I still have time to retake it and submit an app during this cycle?

Tangential to that... Would my situation as a non-trad (and work situation) allow for a somewhat lower MCAT score? I'm not saying like 24-26 low, but 27-30ish. I've heard that adcoms see part-time work during full-time studentship and other ECs at the same time and try to keep everything in perspective...

I am sorry for making this so incredibly long... But I appreciate any help you could provide!

 

[premed bedhead]

Hello! I'm a CA resident and hoping to go to either UCLA or UCSD because they are great in primary care and research, and of course, much cheaper than private schools! Just wondering if you could assess my stats/chances, especially given my lower MCAT score.

Attended a top 15 university
Major: Public Health
Overall GPA: 3.68
BCPM GPA: 3.63
MCAT: 31Q (9V, 11PS, 11BS)

Some of my ECs include:
-Internship at World Health Organization, 1 paper submitted for publication
-President of on-campus public health organization (1 year)
-Director of college's admit weekend for accepted students (2 years)
-Resident Advisor (1 year)
-Health advocate and interviewer for inmates in local jail (1 summer)
-Health educator in developing country (3 weeks)
-Health educator in inner-city (1 semester)
-Wet-lab neuroscience research (9 months)
-Shadowed physicians in ER, pediatric oncology units, and operating rooms (3 years)
-Member of college orchestra
-Competed at national and state level in athletics during high school

Taking a year off while applying to med school to become fluent in Spanish and Chinese.

• Are my stats good enough to be considered by a top-tier school or UCLA/UCSF as-is?
• If they aren't, I may retake my MCAT on July 17, which I have been studying for to keep my options open. If this happens, would the later release of my scores disadvantage me?

I desperately need advice right now, since I'm on the fence about retaking the MCAT! On practice tests, I score around 32-34, but I have a history of panicking during exams. I don't want to run the risk of jeopardizing my current score, and neither do I want to delay my application in this cycle too long.

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!

 

[dor940]

Okay, so I was wondering how I can improve my application if I decide on going to medical school.

I just recently graduated with a B.S. in biology, but with only a GPA of 2.6ish. I had a very rough first two years of college and my study habits were not all that good, was put on probation. I had a little more C's then I should have gotten. But now that I have graduated, I got all A's in my labs, A's and B's in OChem and Physics, and A,B,C's in my main science classes (like Bio I,II, Micro, Physio. and Anatomy and so on), more C's then A's and B's. I volunteered a couple of times and was also in a Service Fraternity. I have taken the MCAT once with a score of 22Q and I know I will have to retake that again.

After graduating I took Anatomy I and OChem II and got A's in them because I put everything aside and study hard for these two classes. So, I know that I can handle the course work, I just have to keep my study habits at top notch, which will help me in the long run. I was thinking about taking some of my prereqs over again (the classes that I received a C in but I don't know if that would do any good). Would retaking some of these classes help at all?

I recently got accepted into a Masters program for Biology, so will be doing that this fall. But should I just be a part-time student or should I be at full-time status, what do you think about this. If I can manage to get A's in my classes, will this improve my application? Or will my undergrad still over shadow my graduate grades?

Also, my parents believe that I should take on a research job, like a research assistant at the health science center in our city, but I just don't know if I'll like it even though I have never tried it before. I know that it would be a good experience for me though or be at least a part-time employee.

So, pretty much looking for any answers you can give me to improve my application or something. EC's, shadowing, research, GPA, etc...

Also, I now that M.D. is not my only option, I could go the O.D. path as well.

Thanks.

 

[REL]

Hi,

I had a question regarding my grades and how this would be viewed. My freshman year I took Ochem I and received a C but an A- in the lab. For Ochem II, I received an I because I wasn't feeling well and my professor allowed me to just take the final later and I ended up getting an A in both the lecture and lab. Will this be very detrimental to my chances? I have a 3.7 science gpa and 3.8 cum. gpa, and scored a 34 on the mcat.

Thank you for all your help!

No problem here. You have covered your early course work with higher level work and a much better grade. Overall numbers support that the earlier gaffe is not indicative of your knowledge base. You should not be hindered at all.

 

[REL]

Hello,

Outstanding forum -- thanks much!

I have read a great number of posts, but I have yet to see a situation quite like mine.

I have a bacc degree that is roughly a decade old -- GPA 3.05.
I have returned to school to get pre-med credentials and have earned a GPA of ~3.8 for 3 full time semesters. I have a minor in math and my math/science GPA is around 3.8 (old and new).

I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but I sat down this evening and took a real sample test (blind without studying at all) and scored 32. I'm confident that with some preparation, I can boost it toward 40ish.

I have done lots of calculations with my old transcripts to see what I might do to boost my GPA and none of it really makes sense -- I have old Cs in a history course and a sociology course e.g.. I would like to believe that admissions would be much more interested my As in Organic Chem I/II, Biochem and Pathology than my Cs in history / sociology...? Would it benefit me to retake these unrelated courses?

In short, with mediocre old academic performance, competitive recent academic achievement and potentially phenomenal MCAT performance, what are my odds?

I recall reading a post about schools that take a more "holistic" approach to admissions. Can you point me to a list or cite examples? This is the first I've heard of it.

Thank you SO much!

~egregious

Thank you for the inquiry. So much time has passed and your UG GPA will be slow to rise, even with ur 3 FT semesters.....lucky for you AMCAS will show post-bac work separate from the original UG work in a spreadsheet to med schools. Those programs who actually look will be happy to see your later academic work being indicative of who you are now, coupled with a 32+ MCAT score programs will not see you as an academic risk. Your chore here is to ensure that the programs dont do a simple "total GPA" review and actually look at the trends. You can try to visit your best fit programs so that they know who you are and will be on the lookout for your app, if you cant get there, see if you can speak via telephone. Finally if all else fails send a letter of interest talking about your recent academics and how your talents fit their desires.

Many come with strong numbers and if they dont come with the medical motivation (aka med volunteering and shadowing), humanism (comm svc vol), teamwork/leadership, and probably some basic science lab research knowledge, then they may fall lower on "should we interview" ladder. If you have access to a prehealth office, take a look at the AAMC Med School Adm Reqs (MSAR) and read info for each school of interest --- how they do business is often also on their web site for the review process and preferred applicant characteristics. I hope that this helps.

 

[REL]

Just want to go ahead and thank the Adcom's for their time and dedication.

I am a 24 yo white (Persian) non-traditional student. Im going to sum this up as best I can. In HS I was a straight A student, graduated with a 4.02 and skipped a year. I moved out at 17 mostly because my mom had to leave the state for her job, and I had a full ride at school. The first year or so I worked full time and did POORLY (also was in an abusive relationship). 3F's in sciences, 2W's, retook and made C's
**first 60 credits cGPA~2.0 sGPA~1.6). I later moved back to my home state.

**Next 60-90 credits (still UG working towards pharmD pre-req) ~3.5-3.6 both science and non science classes

I didnt get into my first year applying to pharmD school so I pursued a BA in psych ~3.5

I got into pharmD school in 2007 without the need to finish my BA, but now I will be since Im only 4 classes away and the UG school will take my PharmD credits as upper level electives.

In pharm school I make A's and B's(mostly B's at first, now mostly A's). Im going into my 3rd year (out of 4 year program) with a c and sGPA of 3.1, if I make straight A's (i can)
GPA after 3rd year (when I plan on applying)-~3.2
end of 4th year (right before entering MD school hopefully) ~3.3

Assuming I make at least a 30 on MCAT (taking in Jan, studied over summer), what else should I do to help my application.

-Im working with a professor on publishing a pharmaceutical paper on rheology, did one year of mental health association "listen to children" volunteering, started a MTM (medication therapy management) program at my pharmacy that Ive worked at for 5 years

-My fiance lives in Chicago, I love chicago and my dream school is U of Chicago, but sadly out of reach (I still plan on applying to it though).

-From what Ive seen with responses to RN's, will having a pharmD be beneficial seeing my extensive medication knowledge, I wanted to goto MD before pharmD, but I didnt for various reasons, lack of confidence, etc. I have been told that like RN's, adcoms are reluctant to pull a Pharmacist from the field with a shortage.

So to sum up the academics: PharmD in 2009 (hoping 3.3), also completing 4 classes to close out the Psych BA (3.5), working on publication, 1 yr comm svc vol, and some leadership. First, work with your school's prehealth/premed office to see AAMC/MSAR to research MD program requirements and desires. For an MD program you are on the fringe with your academics and would need a strong MCAT (32+?) to get some interest based on most pools that I have seen. In addition you will be up against a group that has probably displayed a consistency (over 2-3 yrs?) of med clin volunteerism, ditto for comm svc vol, some physician shadowing, and it seems tho not required, about 2/3 of those claiming an MD seat seems to have some knowledge of basic science lab research. Med programs will look at your positive progression in academics, but it may not be strong enuf as it is now. If coupled with strong med motivation/volunteering and a strong MCAT, your chances are better. Consider also that your application package (mainly secondary) will address the lesser early academics, other hurdles of life, and chances for you to explain your apparent lack of medical motivation.

In many cases you would have a good chance at most of the DO programs in the nation. Consider applying to both MD and DO programs. It would be in your best interest to visit some of your programs of interest to let them know of your interest and how well your goals and their missions correlate. If you cant get a person-to-person visit, send a short letter addressing this information. I wish you well.

 

[REL]

Hello. I am new to this so hopefully im posting in the correct place .

I have a bit of concern, I currently work full time for "Kaiser Permanente" and those of you that are not familiar with that company its basically a non-profit company for health care. My concern is this, I work full-time and I can maintain as of now a 3.2 ish GPA and thats mainly because of the community colleges weighing 10% of your grade due to attendance, so I know I have more potential but besides that my point is my concern is that everytime I look at applicants and their GPA's, they are far beyond mine. I get extremely down on myself but I am wondering how much me being employed full time and having constant interaction with patients and patient care 40+ hours a week will benefit me? Will this be taken into consideration for my "lower" gpa compared to all of the other applicants. I keep reading that below a 3.2 is bad juju so im on the borderline I suppose. I have taken some of my Bio and Chem courses and received A's in them. But my main question I guess is, should i be stressing about my GPA as much as I am saying that it stays at a 3.2 or a bit higher once I transfer next semester, and that I work full time and have constant interaction with patients (trying to justify myself )

Thanks
Frank

Thank you for your inquiry. Based solely on the information you have provided, GPA and job, I would have to say you have a chore ahead of you. For most programs there are not many applicants who matriculate with a 3.2 GPA. Those that are accepted with a lower GPA will have offer great strength in other areas of their application --- medical motivation, passion, humanism, research, etc. While work in the medical profession gives you a closer look than volunteering, but volunteering really helps a program to look at your "heart" for medicine and people. Many programs want to ensure that those they put in the classroom are going to be good classmates as well as successful academically. While many programs do look at all of your application before making a decision to interview, hours available --- what was done with that time --- I would have to say you are on the fringe as you note. I recommend really focusing on your full-time academics, giving an admissions committee 2-3 great semesters of sciences, followed by a strong 30+ MCAT. Of course also beging to build the consistency of medical motivation (clinical vol & some shadowing), comm svc (humanism), teamwork/leadership, and yes some basic science research experience is also helpful to increase your chances. Med school is very much academics and time-management with 60-80 hp/wk being the average for all four years. Programs must be confident in an applicants ability to manage both before making that final offer. I hope that this helps.