Medical School Has Made Me Sick :(

[tennesseejed]

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I think "fif the great" and "type-b" are the same person.

 

[MSHell]

Our class gunner is developing anxiety symptoms, exam-related. He's been an arse to the whole class because he is "competing" with everyone when frankly we are all laid back. We are hoping to push him to cyclic vomiting syndrome.

I'm gonna go out on a huge limb and agree with most of what TypeB has said. (not ALL psychiatrists are weird)

Yes I know, primary care is not for me either. Patients don't seem to realize that a lot of their health depends directly on their actions or inactions.

 

[worriedwell]

and i agree that people have the right to do what they want... just as i would have to right to ask them to seek another physician. this is why i wouldn't make a good family doc. i would care too much and i know the truth of it is that most patients are non-compliant.

I don't equate you not being able to be a long term health care provider with caring too much. That is implying that others who are family practice doctors don't care as much as you do about people. I disagree and my gut tells me that they probably care more about people in general than you come across as doing. Especially because then you go on to say that Emergency medicine is just fine and dandy because you don't have to be emotionally invested in any of your patients and then who cares what ends up happening to them in the long run. This implies that you really don't care about anybody that you are treating...unless you develop a relationship with them over ten years...then you "care" because you want them to do what you say is right, or else you'd choose not to treat them. This makes the entire premise of why you want to be a doctor as a means to serve yourself (financially, emotionally, intellectually) rather than anybody else in the world.

I understand that we have to be happy as physicians with what we are doing, but I think this happens all to often that physicians end up being unhappy in general with their lives because they were looking at medicine in this sort of selfish way. Maybe surgery is a good option for those types of people, if they are willing to put up with the training...because chronically managing patients-including in the ER setting-is about small victories or the satisfaction of being a positive relationship for the patient. It is too self-important to think that you are going to drastically alter the lives of the majority of the patients that you see. Too grandiose, if you will. I've learned this over the 4 years of med school (and believe me, it was eye opening and frustrating at times as well). The reality of being a doctor is not as "hollywood" as I thought it would be. Its quite different as a matter of fact. Those heartwarming episodes of ER probably happen a handful of times in a career as opposed to every thursday night.

 

[typeB-md]

I don't equate you not being able to be a long term health care provider with caring too much. That is implying that others who are family practice doctors don't care as much as you do about people. I disagree and my gut tells me that they probably care more about people in general than you come across as doing. Especially because then you go on to say that Emergency medicine is just fine and dandy because you don't have to be emotionally invested in any of your patients and then who cares what ends up happening to them in the long run. This implies that you really don't care about anybody that you are treating...unless you develop a relationship with them over ten years...then you "care" because you want them to do what you say is right, or else you'd choose not to treat them. This makes the entire premise of why you want to be a doctor as a means to serve yourself (financially, emotionally, intellectually) rather than anybody else in the world.

I understand that we have to be happy as physicians with what we are doing, but I think this happens all to often that physicians end up being unhappy in general with their lives because they were looking at medicine in this sort of selfish way. Maybe surgery is a good option for those types of people, if they are willing to put up with the training...because chronically managing patients-including in the ER setting-is about small victories or the satisfaction of being a positive relationship for the patient. It is too self-important to think that you are going to drastically alter the lives of the majority of the patients that you see. Too grandiose, if you will. I've learned this over the 4 years of med school (and believe me, it was eye opening and frustrating at times as well). The reality of being a doctor is not as "hollywood" as I thought it would be. Its quite different as a matter of fact. Those heartwarming episodes of ER probably happen a handful of times in a career as opposed to every thursday night.

first i have to say that i think your first paragraph seems to say two entirely contradictory things... maybe it's just me.

but since i can't understand what you wrote, i'll just explain myself better. i wouldn't do FP because if emotionally invested and cared for someone and they don't follow my instructions, i will get frustrated. Now i can see that most fields of medicine deal with these issues of non-compliance. But fields like ER and Anesthesia and Radiology seem to de-emphasize the long-term bonding between patient and doctor; thus, i don't have to worry about emotional investments in my patients; thus, i don't have to get frustrated over non-compliance.

again, i don't know if you agreed with me or not because i couldn't understand what you wrote.

 

[worriedwell]

first i have to say that i think your first paragraph seems to say two entirely contradictory things... maybe it's just me.

but since i can't understand what you wrote, i'll just explain myself better. i wouldn't do FP because if emotionally invested and cared for someone and they don't follow my instructions, i will get frustrated. Now i can see that most fields of medicine deal with these issues of non-compliance. But fields like ER and Anesthesia and Radiology seem to de-emphasize the long-term bonding between patient and doctor; thus, i don't have to worry about emotional investments in my patients; thus, i don't have to get frustrated over non-compliance.

again, i don't know if you agreed with me or not because i couldn't understand what you wrote.

my point was...you saying "i care too much and therefore can't treat patients long term" is a falsehood. you don't care too much, in fact, you care less than the people who are willing to do the tough job of family practice/primary care. you prioritize your own self-serving needs of what makes you happy in medicine and if any of your "patient's" are threatening that happiness, then you (theoretically) will bail out on them and tell them to look elsewhere.

i guess you could argue that you already know this is your philosophy and are honest about it (let me reemphasize that i do not think it is a good quality to have as a doctor at all) and therefore are removing yourself from the pool of doctors who "take care" of patients. This is why I thought surgery might be a good option, because you didn't give the impression that you despise patient contact or clinical medicine per se and because you mentioned ER. Now that you bring anasthesia and radiology into the mix, I can see that medicine isn't neccessarily about "motivating people to change their lives" for you as you kinda implied in your original posts. My friends going into Rads or Anasthesia are very honest about their lack of interest in the well-being of their patients. Of course, they realize that their job done well contributes to helping people medically but they cite other motivations higher (I'm not saying they don't care about people in general, no flames from budding gas or rads people please).

Let me just say though, that radiology and anasthesia are fields where you have a skill set that is very different than being a frontline face to face provider. I'm not saying one is better or worse, but all your talk has been about people and their will and wanting to treat people without drugs etc. I thought you were trying to take that philosophy to your clinical practice and assumed you were interested in patient care. That gung-ho macho talk is what had me worried. If you are not, then you were just on a rant, and that makes it less offensive to me.

Its much easier not to "care" about the people's lives if you are involved in more technical fields (like those you are thinking about), but please don't claim that you care more than any of the doctors who do take on the formidable task of long term patient care (for less pay and long hours and an endless amount of knowledge to learn). And also, if you are in one of those non-patient care fields, you have less license to complain about how patients are managed by Pfizer, instead of so and so, because you aren't involved in the day to day prescribing of the medicine or the health "advising". You are triaging the patient and then passing them off(ER), managing their physiology without caring about how they got to that point (Anesthesia), or reading their X-ray with one sentence describing their disease (radiology). Do what you want, but your issues with being frustrated with non-compliance strike me as issues that I felt when I was early on in med school, and it was more of a sign of immaturity and self-importance than it was about how deeply I cared.

 

[hidingOUT]

Hey Everyone,

I'm not sure if anyone's experienced anything like this, but I've developed a chronic anxiety/panic disorder while in med school. Usually before exams, I start vomiting uncontrollably and developing panic symptoms of heart palpitations, sweaty hands, etc.

Had med school made anyone else sick?

Hi. You stated in a previous post that you have tried exercise, etc. I am curious- to what extent and how regularly? Also, diet modification, etc? The reason I ask is that, although type-B-md may seen a little extreme in his language, I feel he has some valid points. So, not to seem judgemental, but more out of curiosity- how full blown was your effort to exercise?

I have found that one of the reasons lots of diet/exercise attempts fail to "cure" people is often related to their lack of chronically attempting it. This is generally related to the fact that they are not approaching it with the correct attitude. By "correct attitude", I mean- not as a way to punish yourself for being "sick, weak, over/underweight etc...", but as a way to reward yourself for all of your accomplishments, give yourself some of your "own time", etc. Also- there are TONS of ways to exercise, and many people don't try out enough techniques. Some may benefit more from a regular, brisk, walk with deep breathing than killing themselves on the staimaster. Some people need to swim, others need team sports. The key here is regular, dedicated application of time, patience, and practice. The same goes for diet modification.

The reason I ask is you seem sincere and although meds are often beneficial and necessary, I really feel that as future MD's, we have a responsibility to our patients that starts with ourselves. Don't get me wrong-you may need the meds- who am I to judge this from an online forum? I simply wonder if you have created the time and space in your life for a full-blown attempt at lifestyle modification? Making the effort in med school may seem overwhelming- but if not, now...welll....

 

[typeB-md]

Its much easier not to "care" about the people's lives if you are involved in more technical fields (like those you are thinking about), but please don't claim that you care more than any of the doctors who do take on the formidable task of long term patient care (for less pay and long hours and an endless amount of knowledge to learn). And also, if you are in one of those non-patient care fields, you have less license to complain about how patients are managed by Pfizer, instead of so and so, because you aren't involved in the day to day prescribing of the medicine or the health "advising". You are triaging the patient and then passing them off(ER), managing their physiology without caring about how they got to that point (Anesthesia), or reading their X-ray with one sentence describing their disease (radiology). Do what you want, but your issues with being frustrated with non-compliance strike me as issues that I felt when I was early on in med school, and it was more of a sign of immaturity and self-importance than it was about how deeply I cared.

i can definitely relate as i am in fact MS1. But with that said.. I KNOW that i don't like giving instructions and having them disregarded. I've worked many family practice shifts as a shadow (probably around 500 hours) and it is amazing how obese and overall lazy people are... even when someone (the doctor) is trying their best to get these individuals' lives on track.

and maybe it was a misunderstanding that you think i said i cared MORE than other individuals going into FP or the likes. It was never supposed to be relative to other physicians. I said that i care and do not deal well with issues of non-compliance. I think that is the big difference - some people have the energy (compassion?) to drive onward with these non-compliant patients. I, however, know that after two times they would no longer be in my clinic which makes for: 1. a bad physician 2. an unhappy patient

and as far as Pfizer is concerned, for the most part, people would rather take a drug than put in any effort. so again, i would be dealing with issues of frustration. Here is one scene that i witnessed one time

Doctor: "Well, i don't actually think you are clinically depressed so much as just not making time for yourself or finding time to do something enjoyable"

Patient: "Yea, that may be, but my mother's pyschiatrist prescribed her some Wellbutrin and [the mother] says that it is great and she feels so much better"

Doctor: "But ma'am, i really feel that something like a martial arts class or a yoga class would be a great way to relieve some of the stress you are feeling because like i said, i don't think you have a clinical disorder"

Patient: "OK, so does that mean i can get the Wellbutrin?"

i don't have to be an FP to know that there is something wrong with people today and their laziness.

 

[Elysium]

i can definitely relate as i am in fact MS1. But with that said.. I KNOW that i don't like giving instructions and having them disregarded. I've worked many family practice shifts as a shadow (probably around 500 hours) and it is amazing how obese and overall lazy people are... even when someone (the doctor) is trying their best to get these individuals' lives on track.

and maybe it was a misunderstanding that you think i said i cared MORE than other individuals going into FP or the likes. It was never supposed to be relative to other physicians. I said that i care and do not deal well with issues of non-compliance. I think that is the big difference - some people have the energy (compassion?) to drive onward with these non-compliant patients. I, however, know that after two times they would no longer be in my clinic which makes for: 1. a bad physician 2. an unhappy patient

and as far as Pfizer is concerned, for the most part, people would rather take a drug than put in any effort. so again, i would be dealing with issues of frustration. Here is one scene that i witnessed one time

Doctor: "Well, i don't actually think you are clinically depressed so much as just not making time for yourself or finding time to do something enjoyable"

Patient: "Yea, that may be, but my mother's pyschiatrist prescribed her some Wellbutrin and [the mother] says that it is great and she feels so much better"

Doctor: "But ma'am, i really feel that something like a martial arts class or a yoga class would be a great way to relieve some of the stress you are feeling because like i said, i don't think you have a clinical disorder"

Patient: "OK, so does that mean i can get the Wellbutrin?"

i don't have to be an FP to know that there is something wrong with people today and their laziness.

Has it occured to you that you might be a teeny bit obsessed with working out? If you go back and read your posts, you'll see that you talk about working out ad nauseum. I used to be a personal trainer and I still work out 4-5 days a week, but get a life dude. Not everyone is going to be cured with taking a friggin' yoga class. I have clinical anxiety that is absolutely not controlled by working out alone. I need drugs in addition to physical exercise. And your laothing for people that don't work out is almost pathological. It's almost akin to a kind of racism. I admit, I'm not wild about non-compliant patients who refuse to take responsiblilty for their actions. It pisses me off too. But, the fact remains that you're going to see all kinds of people in your practice and I guarantee that 99% of them aren't going to care about benching 300. I would get the hell over yourself and maybe talk to a psychiatrist about your eating/working out OCD.

 

[typeB-md]

Has it occured to you that you might be a teeny bit obsessed with working out? If you go back and read your posts, you'll see that you talk about working out ad nauseum. I used to be a personal trainer and I still work out 4-5 days a week, but get a life dude. Not everyone is going to be cured with taking a friggin' yoga class. I have clinical anxiety that is absolutely not controlled by working out alone. I need drugs in addition to physical exercise. And your laothing for people that don't work out is almost pathological. It's almost akin to a kind of racism. I admit, I'm not wild about non-compliant patients who refuse to take responsiblilty for their actions. It pisses me off too. But, the fact remains that you're going to see all kinds of people in your practice and I guarantee that 99% of them aren't going to care about benching 300. I would get the hell over yourself and maybe talk to a psychiatrist about your eating/working out OCD.

wow, this is one fantastic post!

let me first point out that "racism" is a form of "prejudice" so if you were to say that "it's almost akin to a kind of prejudice" then that would be correct. But as it is your post, it could never be that "loathing for people that don't work out" would fit under any classification of racism as racism deals specifically with racially-based prejudice... but i digress...

i don't know why people keep focusing back on me... i am not the one with issues here. i (with the exception of yourself) have yet to see someone who is physically fit have all of these issues that you speak of. physical health breeds self confidence which breeds mental health... this is how it normally works. this is why i advocate first trying to fix problems using internal motivation and lifestyle changes. It does NOT always work, but it's like that old proverb. "If you give a man a fish, he has food for a night. If you teach this man to fish, he has food for a lifetime."

it seems that you are mad at me because i don't have any problems with myself. and let me reiterate, i don't really care what people think about me benching 300lbs or being able to run a mile under 5:00 or being under 9% bodyfat. what it comes down to is that i am content with myself and i don't need someone else (or some drug) to make me feel happy or less anxious or make me focus.

i am not content to accept that i need some form of external modification to my being. if you want to take drugs, go ahead and take drugs, it's not my body, it's yours. you act like i care if everyone around me is doped up and robotic... i do not. all i can do is advocate my stance on a subject which is that i believe the human body is capable of many great things and tapping the inner workings of the mind can sometimes yield far more rewarding benefits than anything Pfizer can make. Again, the proverb doesn't lie.

 

[typeB-md]

Hi. You stated in a previous post that you have tried exercise, etc. I am curious- to what extent and how regularly? Also, diet modification, etc? The reason I ask is that, although type-B-md may seen a little extreme in his language, I feel he has some valid points. So, not to seem judgemental, but more out of curiosity- how full blown was your effort to exercise?

I have found that one of the reasons lots of diet/exercise attempts fail to "cure" people is often related to their lack of chronically attempting it. This is generally related to the fact that they are not approaching it with the correct attitude. By "correct attitude", I mean- not as a way to punish yourself for being "sick, weak, over/underweight etc...", but as a way to reward yourself for all of your accomplishments, give yourself some of your "own time", etc. Also- there are TONS of ways to exercise, and many people don't try out enough techniques. Some may benefit more from a regular, brisk, walk with deep breathing than killing themselves on the staimaster. Some people need to swim, others need team sports. The key here is regular, dedicated application of time, patience, and practice. The same goes for diet modification.

The reason I ask is you seem sincere and although meds are often beneficial and necessary, I really feel that as future MD's, we have a responsibility to our patients that starts with ourselves. Don't get me wrong-you may need the meds- who am I to judge this from an online forum? I simply wonder if you have created the time and space in your life for a full-blown attempt at lifestyle modification? Making the effort in med school may seem overwhelming- but if not, now...welll....

This is an excellent post and really gets at what i've trying to say all along. It's not that lifestyle modification may be the panacea, but why not give it a shot first?

Things do not come easily and getting past the first few months of a new routine is very difficult, much more difficult than taking a drug. I wish people would stop being so offended by my posts and realize that i'm just trying to advocate a slightly different solution to current problems.

 

[Elysium]

wow, this is one fantastic post!

let me first point out that "racism" is a form of "prejudice" so if you were to say that "it's almost akin to a kind of prejudice" then that would be correct. But as it is your post, it could never be that "loathing for people that don't work out" would fit under any classification of racism as racism deals specifically with racially-based prejudice... but i digress...

i don't know why people keep focusing back on me... i am not the one with issues here. i (with the exception of yourself) have yet to see someone who is physically fit have all of these issues that you speak of. physical health breeds self confidence which breeds mental health... this is how it normally works. this is why i advocate first trying to fix problems using internal motivation and lifestyle changes. It does NOT always work, but it's like that old proverb. "If you give a man a fish, he has food for a night. If you teach this man to fish, he has food for a lifetime."

it seems that you are mad at me because i don't have any problems with myself. and let me reiterate, i don't really care what people think about me benching 300lbs or being able to run a mile under 5:00 or being under 9% bodyfat. what it comes down to is that i am content with myself and i don't need someone else (or some drug) to make me feel happy or less anxious or make me focus.

i am not content to accept that i need some form of external modification to my being. if you want to take drugs, go ahead and take drugs, it's not my body, it's yours. you act like i care if everyone around me is doped up and robotic... i do not. all i can do is advocate my stance on a subject which is that i believe the human body is capable of many great things and tapping the inner workings of the mind can sometimes yield far more rewarding benefits than anything Pfizer can make. Again, the proverb doesn't lie.

Are you actually trying to tell me that you honestly don't believe that people have organic mental illness of varying severity that can't be ameloriated with running on a treadmill? Are you f-ing serious? I was actually a semi-competitive kickboxer (and I'm a chick) and I was (prepared to be amazed!) still anxious! Holy sh1t! Yes, folks, I work out and have GAD. Maybe this is because it's genetic, maybe I'm just unlucky, I dunno. Has it also not occured to you that people that obsessively workout suffer from anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorhpia disorder, etc. etc? You honestly think that everyone in the gym is the paragon of mental stability? Are you for real? Like no gym rats have anger management issues? Don't have mental illness of any kind? As a scientist and future physician you can't intelluctually believe that. And, contrary to your malignant view of psychiatric pharmacology (which I assume you haven't had yet), most SSRI's, etc. don't put you in any kind of dazed state. There is no discernable cognitive difference, it's much more subtle than that. Here's kinda how it works: I wasn't on meds and felt like sh1t all the time (but I could still bench 120! And leg press 320! WooHOOOOO! I'm a superstar). I got on the right meds (not an SSRI, a newer antidepressant that works on norepi, seratonin, and dopamine and also buspirone) and suddenly I don't felt like sh1t anymore! I stopped crying all the time! I stopped wanting to jump off a bridge! All while still working out. Magic!

So, please, get a grip, dude. You have so much to learn (as do I), so much empathy you need to cultivate, and some badly needed humility lessons. I've decided to reveal this much about my personal life on SDN to prove that you're just a collasal prick who's also 100% incorrect.

Tata.

 

[typeB-md]

Are you actually trying to tell me that you honestly don't believe that people have organic mental illness of varying severity that can't be ameloriated with running on a treadmill? Are you f-ing serious? I was actually a semi-competitive kickboxer (and I'm a chick) and I was (prepared to be amazed!) still anxious! Holy sh1t! Yes, folks, I work out and have GAD. Maybe this is because it's genetic, maybe I'm just unlucky, I dunno. Has it also not occured to you that people that obsessively workout suffer from anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorhpia disorder, etc. etc? You honestly think that everyone in the gym is the paragon of mental stability? Are you for real? Like no gym rats have anger management issues? Don't have mental illness of any kind? As a scientist and future physician you can't intelluctually believe that. And, contrary to your malignant view of psychiatric pharmacology (which I assume you haven't had yet), most SSRI's, etc. don't put you in any kind of dazed state. There is no discernable cognitive difference, it's much more subtle than that. Here's kinda how it works: I wasn't on meds and felt like sh1t all the time (but I could still bench 120! And leg press 320! WooHOOOOO! I'm a superstar). I got on the right meds (not an SSRI, a newer antidepressant that works on norepi, seratonin, and dopamine and also buspirone) and suddenly I don't felt like sh1t anymore! I stopped crying all the time! I stopped wanting to jump off a bridge! All while still working out. Magic!

So, please, get a grip, dude. You have so much to learn (as do I), so much empathy you need to cultivate, and some badly needed humility lessons. I've decided to reveal this much about my personal life on SDN to prove that you're just a collasal prick who's also 100% incorrect.

Tata.

Elysium, i just spent the last 45 minutes reading through some of your old posts, and i had quite long reply already typed out, but i can't bring myself to post it. Let's just leave it at the fact that we are two very different individuals from quite opposite backgrounds. You seem to be very outspoken, and it seems to be your trend to post things similar to what is posted above. In my defense, i was just trying to advocate that i would like to see more physicans give a first look at lifestyle modification before moving to drugs or other such treatments - i don't believe i ever suggested that mental illness does not exist.

please leave it at this between us.

 

[bigfrank]

Elysium, i just spent the last 45 minutes reading through some of your old posts, and i had quite long reply already typed out, but i can't bring myself to post it.

Impressive.......................45 minutes, huh?

😴

 

[typeB-md]

Impressive.......................45 minutes, huh?

😴

way to be.

 

[fun8stuff]

i have no problem being in medical school. i have a problem with the vast majority of medical students feeling that they "deserve" to do well and need to be spoon fed material.

And whining is about small petty things, not health or social issues. People aren't "whining" about terry schiavo are they?

The OP does have an obvious problem, and yes it may be 'amenable' to pharmacological treatment, but what the hell ever happened to working through your problems? I can bench press twice my weight as a result of hard work and motivation, yet i know that muscles are 'amenable' to pharmacological treatment. The only reason growth hormone is illegal is because it confers and advantage. Not to mention that once you stop taking the supplement, you go back to having less muscle. You don't think that once the OP stops taking his meds he'll go right back to feeling the same way?

and it's funny you should mention depression b/c i was involved in a depression counseling group during my undergrad. my role was a personal fitness advisor. these students were "tired, lonely, not wanting to do their usual fun things, etc" and i talked with many of these students and asked what they did for physical fitness and most of them said they did not do much. i also asked them about their self image and most of them replied they are uncomfortable with how they feel about themselves. I then gave them a 6month exercise plan. For those students that followed the plan, just over 80% of them said they "had more energy and felt better about themselves" and were no longer "depressed." So when people tell me that drugs work, i don't doubt it. But a longer term plan needs to be in the form of self resolution, not Pfizer.


yes, there is a reason psychiatry exist, it's because they needed a place to stick all of the nutjob medical students who couldn't interact with other normal people. psychiatrists are weird and the stuff they come up with is even more weird. I'm not denying that neurolgical problems exist because of course they do. I'm simply saying that i think overall they are quacks who take advantage of the needy. I'll stop at that because i could write a thesis on how weird these folks are.

he may sound harsh, but i think typeB has some good points in this post.

 

[sacrament]

This thread is absolutely hilarious. I can't wait until TypeB does his psych rotation and he tries to prescribe good, hearty exercise for all the decompensated schizophrenics, bipolars, and folks that the cops just scraped off a window ledge. "YOU'RE NOT INSANE, YOU'RE JUST LAZY!" screams TypeB in his best motivational-video-rah-rah-rah voice. I think it just might be possible that you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

 

[rugirlie]

This thread is absolutely hilarious. I can't wait until TypeB does his psych rotation and he tries to prescribe good, hearty exercise for all the decompensated schizophrenics, bipolars, and folks that the cops just scraped off a window ledge. "YOU'RE NOT INSANE, YOU'RE JUST LAZY!" screams TypeB in his best motivational-video-rah-rah-rah voice. I think it just might be possible that you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

(You should seriously take yourself on the road... although maybe I'm an easy audience)

Thanks for a good laugh, Edwards (hahaha I will continue to call you this until you show me a pic that proves otherwise...)

 

[typeB-md]

This thread is absolutely hilarious. I can't wait until TypeB does his psych rotation and he tries to prescribe good, hearty exercise for all the decompensated schizophrenics, bipolars, and folks that the cops just scraped off a window ledge. "YOU'RE NOT INSANE, YOU'RE JUST LAZY!" screams TypeB in his best motivational-video-rah-rah-rah voice. I think it just might be possible that you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

first, i would expect this from you as you and elysium are an "item." you are good matches for one another... how old is she now, 45 or something and without children or a ring on her finger? Either way, you both have reading comprehension problems.

obviously you would use your judgement in each different scenario. i believe the scenario described above is quite different than the 30 y.o. sears employee who is 20lbs overweight and still single.

but you're more of an attention ***** than anything else.

 

[typeB-md]

he may sound harsh, but i think typeB has some good points in this post.

you better watch out, you're gonna get flamed for agreeing with something i said.

you won't be give any evidence that you are wrong, however, you'll just be flamed by SDN's attention ******.

 

[sacrament]

but you're more of an attention ***** than anything else.

haha... I am? Tell us again how much you can bench, typeb!!! Oh wow you're buff and strong! You've got all the answers powerful Sensei!

You're a ****ing dork. I bet you're the biggest attention ***** in the whole 24-Hour Fitness.

 

[sacrament]

Elysium, i just spent the last 45 minutes reading through some of your old posts

That was time that could have been spent working out, you lazy douche. You'll probably get a panic disorder now.

 

[sacrament]

Take a look at what I'm wearing, people. You think anybody wants a roundhouse kick to the face while I'm wearing these bad boys? Forget about it. Last off, my students will learn about self respect. You think anybody thinks I'm a failure because I go home to Starla at night? Forget about it!

 

[worriedwell]

yes, there is a reason psychiatry exist, it's because they needed a place to stick all of the nutjob medical students who couldn't interact with other normal people. psychiatrists are weird and the stuff they come up with is even more weird. I'm not denying that neurolgical problems exist because of course they do. I'm simply saying that i think overall they are quacks who take advantage of the needy. I'll stop at that because i could write a thesis on how weird these folks are.

I actually agree that you have a legitimate argument about lifestyle change and trying to solve something more permanently rather than by putting a bandaid on it. However, the above quote, combined with a lot of real life people who have crippling mental illness that are helped by medicine, are reasons why people are attacking you and questioning how open-minded you are being. You were the one who started on the attack, not everybody else. You seem to think you have some dissenting philosophy on achieving happiness that no one else realizes. That is very arrogant. You sound like a deranged scientologist and you probably are not giving enough credit to this audience.

Good doctors realize that lifestyle modification is fundamental to proper health (be it mental or physical), and psychiatrists often use a 1 year trial of meds to organically alter one's ability to motivate with the hopes that they can then get on the right track to start altering their lives. Then they can be in a place where they can try to wean off the medications. For many, the medications are needed chronically for them to function and that is an option as well. I'm not just talking about full blown schizphrenia, but milder things like anxiety or depression etc. I don't pretend to know how to manage these things with a combination of meds and therapy but I do believe that the best approach is being "open" to a combination of both. If a good doctor can conclude a patient is safe and able to function without too much anguish, they won't just prescribe a medicine. Rather they should try to incorporate therapy or lifestyle change to help the individual, and if that doesn't work, then medicine can be considered. But that is the skill required by a psychiatrist, and it is admittedly a difficult task with ethical and philosophical considerations.

Either way, medicine has proven that an organic predisposition exists and that the most effective therapy for mental illness is a combination of therapy and medicine. Don't let your prejudice for some of the psychiatrists you've met cloud your judgement on what is a real and important branch of medicine that is rapidly growing and improving. I admit that I have a bias of promoting the field of psychiatry and that is evident in my posts, but you shouldn't be surprised at people attacking you because you are not posting as though you are willing to think through things reasonably.

 

[typeB-md]

Yes, you needed to use three posts for that. Let's look at some of the past contributions you and elysium have made to this forum:

Sacrament's recent worthile contribution to the doctor community...

"Reviews of 15-Second Porn Clips I Downloaded "

"LOTR Drinking Game "

"I will tell you if you're ugly"

"Create Your Own Neocon Signature "

"Britney Spears Shouldn't Be Allowed to Exist"

Elysium's equally worthwhile contributions

Dude, who pissed in your cheerios? I said it was my opinion. Personally, I don't like the look or smell of uncut dicks.

So hard to rate which classes I hate the least. I basically hate them all.

Not to worry, darling, I plan on doing some high velocity on your low ilium as a special "surprise" for your birthday.

Women do have biological urges and crave sex, no doubt about it. And god knows I'm not saying that women shouldn't go out and tag as many dudes as they want

but I think a lot of black guys are totally hot. Not sure what this is about - though their reported "big in the pants" reputation could have something to do with it.

This is totally goddamned ridiculous! Which one of you toolbox moderators did this crap? You *****! At least tell us why you're banning him, f-ing gestapo!

look at all this crap that you guys talk about... i would be ashamed to post the ******ed things you say. bring your goofball posts to some other place and put your e-PDAs elsewhere as well. you two are a real sweet match and you'll eventually have some equally obnoxious children... some that you can be really proud of.

 

[typeB-md]

I actually agree that you have a legitimate argument about lifestyle change and trying to solve something more permanently rather than by putting a bandaid on it. However, the above quote, combined with a lot of real life people who have crippling mental illness that are helped by medicine, are reasons why people are attacking you and questioning how open-minded you are being. You were the one who started on the attack, not everybody else. You seem to think you have some dissenting philosophy on achieving happiness that no one else realizes. That is very arrogant. You sound like a deranged scientologist and you probably are not giving enough credit to this audience.

Good doctors realize that lifestyle modification is fundamental to proper health (be it mental or physical), and psychiatrists often use a 1 year trial of meds to organically alter one's ability to motivate with the hopes that they can then get on the right track to start altering their lives. Then they can be in a place where they can try to wean off the medications. For many, the medications are needed chronically for them to function and that is an option as well. I'm not just talking about full blown schizphrenia, but milder things like anxiety or depression etc. I don't pretend to know how to manage these things with a combination of meds and therapy but I do believe that the best approach is being "open" to a combination of both. If a good doctor can conclude a patient is safe and able to function without too much anguish, they won't just prescribe a medicine. Rather they should try to incorporate therapy or lifestyle change to help the individual, and if that doesn't work, then medicine can be considered. But that is the skill required by a psychiatrist, and it is admittedly a difficult task with ethical and philosophical considerations.

Either way, medicine has proven that an organic predisposition exists and that the most effective therapy for mental illness is a combination of therapy and medicine. Don't let your prejudice for some of the psychiatrists you've met cloud your judgement on what is a real and important branch of medicine that is rapidly growing and improving. I admit that I have a bias of promoting the field of psychiatry and that is evident in my posts, but you shouldn't be surprised at people attacking you because you are not posting as though you are willing to think through things reasonably.

you make some good points about keeping an open mind. but everything i have said can be backed with first hand accounts. so let me ask you this... when a woman has her husband die, and one week later she is seeing a psychiatrist, is it really necessary to start her on an SSRI when here only symptoms are that she is depressed and cries alot?

also, have you ever met the children of psychiatrists? these folks are the most psychologically damaged children i have ever seen. every motive of theirs is questioned an they turn into lunatics. i'm sorry, but if a doctor can't even raise their child properly, i don't know that i'm gonna trust them as a patient.

psychiatrists on the majority are very odd individuals. i have probably come into contact with more than a hundred or so, and most (not all) of them are really odd. they always feel the need to interject themselves into conversation, they always feel the need to give unwanted advice, they always dress like poets from the 18th century, and they always make seemingly commen sense observations but change the words around to make it seem like they have made a novel discovery.

but we need psychiatrists, because one nut can related to another nut better than the average not-so-nutty physician. and i think 125-150/hr is a resonable price to charge someone who's already in an vulnerable state and exploit their weakness even more.

 

[Elysium]

Elysium, i just spent the last 45 minutes reading through some of your old posts, and i had quite long reply already typed out, but i can't bring myself to post it. Let's just leave it at the fact that we are two very different individuals from quite opposite backgrounds. You seem to be very outspoken, and it seems to be your trend to post things similar to what is posted above. In my defense, i was just trying to advocate that i would like to see more physicans give a first look at lifestyle modification before moving to drugs or other such treatments - i don't believe i ever suggested that mental illness does not exist.

please leave it at this between us.

If you spent 45 minutes looking at my posts, you probably already know that I'm not going to let a boring sterotype like you get the last word. Let's see, in addition to fat people, lazy people, crazy people, the entire world of psychiatry and everyone and everything that's involved with it, every product that Pfeizer makes (I wonder if you'll even need to use meds, though, when you can just write for "downward dog i qd x infinity"), unmarried women over 30 (interestingly, I'm not quite 42, closer to, say, 31), depressed people, anxious people, people who don't work out, people that contradict your entire world view (chick who works out that has 13% body fat - and still needs something besides doing squats? Impossible!), people that are attention ******, people that complain sometimes just to blow off steam like the OP, people that care about med school (a mortal sin in your opinion), people that worry about doing well in med school, people that suffer from anxiety secondary to the stress of med school, hmm. What else? Since I spent a grand total of 0 minutes looking up all your old posts this is all I can come up with (and just from this thread!). What I do know is that dudes that are obsessed with working out, and bragging about how much they bench, and all that other boring crap are generally compensating for something. I wonder what it is?

Anyways, you've found us out, sac and I are indeed an item, my muscular little detective/stalker. And while we've both gained a modicum of amusment making fun of your sad little world, we do have other things to do.

Oh, and BTW, the "reading comprehension" line is the most boring, lame, typical thing people on here say when they really have nothing else to defend their view. Go to the Everyone forum and check it out. 😴

Well, that's all for now. Until next time, slugger.

EDIT: Unreal. You've now gotten so obsessed with this stupid internet flame war that you actually went back through the last 3 years and cut and pasted my posts? That's is awesome. I would suggest that your compulsivity disorder could be regulated by working out, but I guess not.

🙁

But wait, this is especially scandalous:

well first we all line up in a circle... then we pull down our pants. the guy packing teh most man-meat gets the most respect and so on, until the end.

for women we use breast size instead.

You should be ashamed to be using such foul imagery on a message board. 100 more push-ups for you!

 

[sacrament]

Yes, you needed to use three posts for that. Let's look at some of the past contributions you and elysium have made to this forum:

Sacrament's recent worthile contribution to the doctor community...

You could at least have provided the links for people, in case they felt like reading something amusing instead of listening to Mr. Fit ramble on in a steroid-induced psychosis.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=164226
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=155914
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=131592
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=169278
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=168284

 

[sacrament]

you make some good points about keeping an open mind. but everything i have said can be backed with first hand accounts.

"Everything I've said can be backed with purely anecdotal evidence!"

Well I've also got a observation I'd like to make. Turns out, every dude who works out a lot likes to go down on other men. This can be backed with first hand accounts.

i have probably come into contact with more than a hundred or so

Oh yeah, a hundred?! Well I've come into contact with, like, a million!

, and most (not all) of them are really odd. they always feel the need to interject themselves into conversation, they always feel the need to give unwanted advice, they always dress like poets from the 18th century, and they always make seemingly commen sense observations but change the words around to make it seem like they have made a novel discovery.

Why do I get the feeling that you've met approximately one psychiatrist?

also, have you ever met the children of psychiatrists? these folks are the most psychologically damaged children i have ever seen. every motive of theirs is questioned an they turn into lunatics.

And why do I think that one psychiatrist was your father?

 

[closertofine]

i (with the exception of yourself) have yet to see someone who is physically fit have all of these issues that you speak of.

I know I'm behind in this thread...but seriously, you know of only one person who is physically fit and yet still has "issues"?! You do know that psychiatric problems aren't branded onto a person's forehead...that even some of your acquaintances could have problems but not feel comfortable talking to you about them (hmm, wonder why?).

I can personally vouch for the existence of people who are physically fit but still have difficulties. Hard to imagine that a person can still be severely depressed even after a regular schedule of aerobics and yoga, jogging, and weights...but true. I'm not sure how this fits within your theory of the world, but it happens, unfortunate as it may be.

 

[Elysium]

I know I'm behind in this thread...but seriously, you know of only one person who is physically fit and yet still has "issues"?! You do know that psychiatric problems aren't branded onto a person's forehead...that even some of your acquaintances could have problems but not feel comfortable talking to you about them (hmm, wonder why?).

I can personally vouch for the existence of people who are physically fit but still have difficulties. Hard to imagine that a person can still be severely depressed even after a regular schedule of aerobics and yoga, jogging, and weights...but true. I'm not sure how this fits within your theory of the world, but it happens, unfortunate as it may be.

Girl, don't even bother with this loser. He's got some major issues.

 

[typeB-md]

this thread gets better everytime i open it...

sacrament and elysium, it's obvious that you two have more e-popularity than i do.

there's something to be said about a bitter, over-the-hill pill popper who gave up on men until she found the love of her life on the internet. and sacrament, you are one cool dude to have landed yourself a fine, bottle-blonde like elysium. i mean, you are a studly man, with your giant, bald head and luciously thick eyebrows... who wouldn't want to date the acromegalic version of Powder.

You two are the internet equivalent of the head cheerleader and quarterback. Maybe that psychiatrist thing isn't so bad after all, was it Erikson who vocalized the social consequences of not progressing past a certain stage in life? Maybe you weren't really with the "in" crowd in high school and now you're making up for it with an inapporiately outspoken internet relationship. You guys have opened my eyes to the magic of psychiatry.

Arguing on the internet is about as awesome as online dating and while i appreciate the entertainment, you guys really missed the boat in terms of appropriate social behavior. Is it a coincidence that neither of you could land RL (= "real life) significant others? I don't think so. So get your last word in, but realize that you are both close to 30 years old and still act like insecure high-schoolers.

and nice try on the 13% BF...

-typeB

 

[b&ierstiefel]

 

[sacrament]

*weird sh1t*

What's really creepy about you is that not only did you seem to spend a crazy amount of time searching their our old posts, but somehow you also scraped up a picture of me somewhere. Apparently you approach internet stalking with the same single-minded determination as you approach sucking co... I mean, working out. You're a ****ing weirdo. Sorry to burst your ****ing weirdo bubble, but "Elysium" and I see one another in "real life" probably far more frequently that we interact with one another on the internet. I guess since you based your FBI profile on an extensive review of internet forum posts, it lends a certain color to things. Sort of like how your recent posting colors you a delightful bizarre obsessive stalker hue.

I've been with women that I'm guessing you can only dream of. And guess what? I never work out. Ever. Have fun with your benching!

 

[Elysium]

this thread gets better everytime i open it...

sacrament and elysium, it's obvious that you two have more e-popularity than i do.

there's something to be said about a bitter, over-the-hill pill popper who gave up on men until she found the love of her life on the internet. and sacrament, you are one cool dude to have landed yourself a fine, bottle-blonde like elysium. i mean, you are a studly man, with your giant, bald head and luciously thick eyebrows... who wouldn't want to date the acromegalic version of Powder.

You two are the internet equivalent of the head cheerleader and quarterback. Maybe that psychiatrist thing isn't so bad after all, was it Erikson who vocalized the social consequences of not progressing past a certain stage in life? Maybe you weren't really with the "in" crowd in high school and now you're making up for it with an inapporiately outspoken internet relationship. You guys have opened my eyes to the magic of psychiatry.

Arguing on the internet is about as awesome as online dating and while i appreciate the entertainment, you guys really missed the boat in terms of appropriate social behavior. Is it a coincidence that neither of you could land RL (= "real life) significant others? I don't think so. So get your last word in, but realize that you are both close to 30 years old and still act like insecure high-schoolers.

and nice try on the 13% BF...

-typeB

You are one creepy, creepy guy. Dude, how can you be going to school and have so much free time to search through our 7000+ collective posts? Wow, I think maybe you need to increase your bench by like another 100 pounds to get over this anger.

Bottle blonde? I'm scandalized! Also, I totally adore the description of me as an over the hill pill popper. I might put that one in my sig!

😍

 

[typeB-md]

I've been with women that I'm guessing you can only dream of. And guess what? I never work out. Ever. Have fun with your benching!

haha, did you really just throw out e-game?? i already told you, you are my e-hero, no need to try and win me over even more.. of course the quarterback gets all the chicks. that's why i want to be like you, i want to be able to some day get the girls of my dreams.. and if i follow your lead, i can only progress.

Ooooh, and you never work out... you totally dissed me with that one!

this thread is a riot... good show, good show!!

 

[Megalofyia]

haha, did you really just throw out e-game?? i already told you, you are my e-hero, no need to try and win me over even more.. of course the quarterback gets all the chicks. that's why i want to be like you, i want to be able to some day get the girls of my dreams.. and if i follow your lead, i can only progress.

To me it sounds like you want to be with sacrament rather than be him.. and that's ok. I believe that there is some e-man loving that has gone on in the past in the lounge.

 

[sacrament]

haha, did you really just throw out e-game?? i already told you, you are my e-hero, no need to try and win me over even more.. of course the quarterback gets all the chicks. that's why i want to be like you, i want to be able to some day get the girls of my dreams.. and if i follow your lead, i can only progress.

Ooooh, and you never work out... you totally dissed me with that one!

Who said anything about e-game? While you're at the gym checking out other sweaty dudes, some of us have been out there picking up the slack. But you get to listen to lots of crappy 80s rock music, so I guess it evens out.

 

[Elysium]

To me it sounds like you want to be with sacrament rather than be him.. and that's ok. I believe that there is some e-man loving that has gone on in the past in the lounge.

Oh, look who finally decides to show her fat face in this thread? Talk about someone who doesn't work out! Mega is a total fat ass! She hates working out so much she actually sits outside of the gym and follows people back to their cars and then sits on them! Even though she's on every product that Pfizer makes (including, but not limited to, Zoloft, Relpax, Zyrtec, Visine, Viagra, Desitin, e.p.t, rolaids, sudafed, and aricept) she still can't control her loathing for *****s who think that going to the gym is the cure for mental illness! So, slowly but surely, she's going to every Gold's Gym and 24 Hour Fitness across the country (starting in Omaha, of course) to eliminate these lunatics from our midst. She could only aspire to be the head cheerleader of the internet. Maybe she could be a water girl. Maybe.

 

[tkim]

Can't we all get along?