Medical school matriculated applicant stats getting lower--How true is that?

[Temperature101]

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The other day there was a physician on CNN that said the Obamacare will produce lower 'caliber' physicians. He said that people are getting into medical schools with lower stats than years ago. He said that because there will be 30 million more patients, med schools will be forced to expand and take students with even lower stats. I understand the second part of his argument but i do not believe that 10-20 years ago the stats were higher than today. I have a doctor who told me that he wouldn't be able to get into med school now because of the competition.

 

[selttiks288]

Eh I don't really buy it either. There are a lot of qualified applicants that don't get in each year just because there isn't enough room at schools for all qualified applicants or they simply applied too late in the cycle

 

[tenndoc]

make no sense. esp with the spike in recent years. dude prob had a bias

 

[MedPR]

Made up.

 

[Zoopeda]

As doctors' salaries decrease, applicant competition will as well...

 

[HalfListic]

there are still wayyy to many applicants each year for any part of that to be true, fortunately

 

[oms2]

highly questionable claim. i think the quality and quantity of med school applicants have gone up. i've read that many of the old derms/rads/etc wouldn't be able to match with the stats they had - the competitive specialties were not competitive not long ago.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Medicine will always be competitive. Plenty of people dont get in with good stats as it is...just because of the vast amount of students applying with good numbers. Opening up more seats to accommodate a physician shortage would just increase the number of competitive applicants that get accepted.

 

[NurWollen]

I don't buy it either. You can look at stats from 10, 20 years ago. They were definitely much lower. There are still more qualified applicant than seats, not to mention there are a lot of people who squeeze into a med school seat somewhere with lower than average stats and then turn around and get top grades in med school and match into prestigious residencies in any field.

 

[oms2]

it's the old timer syndrome.
old timers love to complain that the newcomers are dumber and lazier.

 

[WorldChanger36]

it's the old timer syndrome.
old timers love to complain that the newcomers are dumber and lazier.

👍

 

[411309]

getting into DO was so much easier several years ago.

 

[rachelg]

it's the old timer syndrome.
old timers love to complain that the newcomers are dumber and lazier.

Agreed. Haters gonna hate. The information taught in medical schools is always advancing, piling on top of the last generations knowledge. Moreover, there would be no room for argument that MCAT scores are declining overtime because MCAT scores are standardized and normalized.

Maybe the journalists are getting lazier and stupider. Now that's a career that has a poor long-term outlook.

 

[Goro]

The medical term for this is "hogwash"

My own school's stats have been improving every year, and we're equal to or better than some MD schools.

The other day there was a physician on CNN that said the Obamacare will produce lower 'caliber' physicians. He said that people are getting into medical schools with lower stats than years ago. He said that because there will be 30 million more patients, med schools will be forced to expand and take students with even lower stats. I understand the second part of his argument but i do not believe that 10-20 years ago the stats were higher than today. I have a doctor who told me that he wouldn't be able to get into med school now because of the competition.

 

[DrMediterranean]

I remember seeing this interview too! All I was thinking when he said that was WTF!? All I remember about the guy was that he said he was an internist named Dr. Willbe (not sure if spelling of his name is correct)

 

[HalfListic]

The medical term for this is "hogwash"

My own school's stats have been improving every year, and we're equal to or better than some MD schools.

haha...I like the interpretation 👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

The other day there was a physician on CNN that said the Obamacare will produce lower 'caliber' physicians. He said that people are getting into medical schools with lower stats than years ago. He said that because there will be 30 million more patients, med schools will be forced to expand and take students with even lower stats. I understand the second part of his argument but i do not believe that 10-20 years ago the stats were higher than today. I have a doctor who told me that he wouldn't be able to get into med school now because of the competition.

they are not higher than they are today. Competitive when my dad applied and got accepted was 7-9s in all sections. Today US MD is 10s pretty regularly. I have no info on DO admissions, though but I suspect they are getting more selective as well.

 

[DrBowtie]

they are not higher than they are today. Competitive when my dad applied and got accepted was 7-9s in all sections. Today US MD is 10s pretty regularly. I have no info on DO admissions, though but I suspect they are getting more selective as well.

Different sections and scales.

Also grade inflation (Lots of universities), growing medical school class sizes, new schools. Also can't comment on the whole grade replacement number massaging.

What has changed is the extra hoops. If you were smart and wanted to go, you applied. Now you need all the fluffy extracurriculars just because adcoms can.

 

[SpecterGT260]

as of roughly 20 years ago (actually he applied about 27 years ago....) it was still a 1-15 scale normalized against the population that took it. It was reported as a single 1-15 as opposed to our 3-45, but considering it was still calculated based on the population performance I consider it to be largely applicable.

 

[illegallysmooth]

I have more of an issue with the fact this ***** thinks that people with slightly lower GPA and MCATs would necessarily be poorer caliber physicians.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I have more of an issue with the fact this ***** thinks that people with slightly lower GPA and MCATs would necessarily be poorer caliber physicians.

as long as the qualifications for residency and licensing are held constant it really wont matter what we do at the med admissions level.

 

[user3]

MSUCOM's class that matriculated in 1988 had an average mcat of 6.9 (is this the equivalent of 20.7 today?) and a science GPA of 3.12

http://www.com.msu.edu/communique/archives/1989CommuniqueFebruary.pdf

Page 8

 

[DrBowtie]

as of roughly 20 years ago (actually he applied about 27 years ago....) it was still a 1-15 scale normalized against the population that took it. It was reported as a single 1-15 as opposed to our 3-45, but considering it was still calculated based on the population performance I consider it to be largely applicable.

Not sure when this changed so it may have been before his time, but there was a general knowledge/current events section according to one of our attendings.

Also without the mean for the scale its hard to compare.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Not sure when this changed so it may have been before his time, but there was a general knowledge/current events section according to one of our attendings.

Also without the mean for the scale its hard to compare.

Difficult but not altogether impossible. Sure they could have arbitrarily set the mean at a different level but we are talking about 2 tests with roughly the same grading scale. The content is irrelevant because the means are adjusted based on percentile.

 

[poopyhead]

1. Keep in mind when the MCAT was still in paper-form, there weren't many chances to take it throughout the year. So, while the score was standardized, there were less "absolute" MCATs being taken, leading to less people with higher scores.

2. Bad economy => more bio majors than "good-paying" bio jobs available at both the BS and graduate levels =>

....just saying

 

[SpecterGT260]

1. Keep in mind when the MCAT was still in paper-form, there weren't many chances to take it throughout the year. So, while the score was standardized, there were less "absolute" MCATs being taken, leading to less people with higher scores.

2. Bad economy => more bio majors than "good-paying" bio jobs available at both the BS and graduate levels =>

....just saying

If we assume that average ability has stayed static relative to the mean over the years and that med schools skew towards higher selectivity when possible.... just the increase in # of applicants for same seats will result in higher scores for matriculation. Supply and demand

 

[notbobtrustme]

20 years ago you just needed a decent GPA and a decent MCAT score. Nowadays, you need a good-great GPA, a good MCAT along with a multitude of extracurriculars. Physicians a generation ago wouldn't even get an interview invite with the stats/ECs they matriculated with.

 

[VBGLL]

Yes its true. The reason 20 years ago it was a lot easier to get into medical school compared to now is because you used to be able to make a ****load of money, doctors were the only people that knew how anything medical, and society praised doctors.

However, in today's world, things are different:

1- Medical reimburstment rates are declining and malpractice insurance rates are skyrocketing. One doctor I shadowed said he paid 13k for out of state when he was in school. He graduated with only about 20 thousand in debt! And he went through the time period often referred to as the "hayday" of medicine where doctors made the most. Needless to say this is no longer the case. and why would you want to invest 7+ years of your life working your ass off and end up worrying about finances?


2- The emergence of mid-level providers is stealing many potential med students. Why? Only ~2 years, a fraction of the debt, and you make what a ped or primary care physician would make (where most DO's will end up). 2 years, low debt vs. 7+ years, 200k+ debt. Not to mention they have less headache to worry about due to less responsibility. If they **** up, its the physicians fault.


3- Doctors don't have the same glory as they did in previous years. Society today doesnt place anymore value on being a doctor vs. a PA, NP, CRNA, who can do the same things. So those pre-medders who are doing this because they want to impress people, girls, their families, etc. Well, you're gonna be very dissapointed after you spent a decade of your life busting your ass. Work on a hit song instead.

These reasons will drag down the overall matriculation stats.

 

[VBGLL]

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