Medical school rankings other than US News?

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immaxf

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Are there any alternatives to using US News and World Reports for getting an understanding of the various qualities of medical schools? This recent article supports my suspicions that US News offers an extremely narrow perspective of what makes a medical school good.

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All us allopathic medical schools are already the best of the best. A 5 pt score increase on the step1 is much more significant than the small difference between jhu med and no name med in my opinion.

But to answer your question, I believe forbes has a list as well.
 
Right, I agree, and I'd be interested in seeing rankings (or at least a list) of schools based on step 1 scores, among other things.
 
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Right, I agree, and I'd be interested in seeing rankings (or at least a list) of schools based on step 1 scores, among other things.

They don't reveal those numbers (at least not in a standardized form subject to confirmation and comparison from school to school) so there is not much we can help you with there. The good news is your step 1 score depends a lot more on you than the school you attend.
 
They don't reveal those numbers (at least not in a standardized form subject to confirmation and comparison from school to school) so there is not much we can help you with there. The good news is your step 1 score depends a lot more on you than the school you attend.

I agree that the individual plays a big role in determining a step 1 score, but I think that a school's pedagogy as well as the overall student body mentality will also play important roles.

Makes sense that step 1 scores are easily / publicly available. I suspect it's probably better that way so curricula aren't tailored entirely to board scores.
 
They don't reveal those numbers (at least not in a standardized form subject to confirmation and comparison from school to school) so there is not much we can help you with there. The good news is your step 1 score depends a lot more on you than the school you attend.

While self-reported by schools (though I might be wrong on this point), USNWR had Step 1 scores available in its subscription.
 
All us allopathic medical schools are already the best of the best. A 5 pt score increase on the step1 is much more significant than the small difference between jhu med and no name med in my opinion.

But to answer your question, I believe forbes has a list as well.

First a 5 point increase in step score is negligible. Second, as much as I hate to admit it, going to JHU versus, say, VCU is a big difference in terms of residency options..
 
It wouldn't be of much use to make a new rankings with step 1 scores anyways. Other than slight fluctuation at the top and more fluctuation at the bottom of the list, the top schools now in US News will probably be the top schools on this new ranking system.

It shouldn't be a surprise if top med schools contain high caliber students. The amount of students going to a specific med school for financial reasons and location reasons aren't going to overcome the huge amount of top students going to top med schools and so forth.

That's not to say that top scores = the best future doctors. I don't think there's a way to measure which schools will produce the best doctors.
 
usnews gives you a good idea of which schools are more prestigious. some schools are better than they seem like mayo but the general trends are there
program directors say that step 1 is a cutoff. they set it to whatever they want to cut down the number of applications they have to look at and then go from there.
 
Are there any alternatives to using US News and World Reports for getting an understanding of the various qualities of medical schools? This recent article supports my suspicions that US News offers an extremely narrow perspective of what makes a medical school good.

Medical school rankings only matter inasmuch as other people recognize the name and automatically think highly of its graduates. Suppose Eastern nowhere med school gets a one billion dollar grants and totally revamps everything and hires thousands of research faculty, etc, and USNWR ranks it number 1. Doesn't really matter if the guy that is giving you a job in residency or beyond doesn't recognize the name. Same for the other way around. Plenty of top schools recently put in new curriculums that are producing some questionable grads. Doesn't matter how much the school sucks now, the name lives on.

When reading rank lists, some amount of common sense is required. School X may be 19 and School Y may be 20, but due to name recognition, the gap may actually be much greater than 1 position in terms of it meaning anything to your career.
 
Medical school rankings only matter inasmuch as other people recognize the name and automatically think highly of its graduates. Suppose Eastern nowhere med school gets a one billion dollar grants and totally revamps everything and hires thousands of research faculty, etc, and USNWR ranks it number 1. Doesn't really matter if the guy that is giving you a job in residency or beyond doesn't recognize the name. Same for the other way around. Plenty of top schools recently put in new curriculums that are producing some questionable grads. Doesn't matter how much the school sucks now, the name lives on.

When reading rank lists, some amount of common sense is required. School X may be 19 and School Y may be 20, but due to name recognition, the gap may actually be much greater than 1 position in terms of it meaning anything to your career.

Agreed, a lot of it is name recognition, alumni, and reputation. USNews is likely not able to capture all of this, hence why Mayo is lower on the list than it's reputation would otherwise indicate. Its important to not get too wrapped up on the subtle differences between individual ranks of each school. The rank difference between #30 vs #35 should not be taken in consideration at all when looking at schools. What's important is if the school has the resources you can take advantage of, a curriculum that suits your way of learning, and overall fit, which may include factors like location/urbanness/student body. Top ranked schools are not respected because they won slot #2 on USNews or whatever, but because they have the reputation that people recognize as far as the residencies and the overall medical community goes.
 
I would like to see rankings of schools by their average step 1 score.
 
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This is a really trippy list. Southwestern is #8, MD Anderson is ranked despite not having a medical school, UT Houston is #32 and Baylor isn't top 50.

Oh, and MIT's medical school is #47 (????????????????????????)

Penn is #24. I'm not an expert or anything but this list looks pretty funky to me.

Wow... MIT has a medical school now?
Cool! :cool:
 
This is a really trippy list. Southwestern is #8, MD Anderson is ranked despite not having a medical school, UT Houston is #32 and Baylor isn't top 50.

Oh, and MIT's medical school is #47 (????????????????????????)

Penn is #24. I'm not an expert or anything but this list looks pretty funky to me.

I think it just ranks by research with respect to subjects related to medicine.
 
I would like to see rankings of schools by their average step 1 score.

top 20:
Baylor
Penn
Harvard
WashU
Columbia
Johns Hopkins
Yale
Dartmouth
UChicago
UCLA
Mt. Sinai
Northwestern
Cornell
Mayo
Duke
UVirginia
UMichigan
UT Southwestern
Stanford
Vanderbilt

source: USNWR premium compass; school-reported 2012 data
 
Not as good as Princeton's but still a solid option.

I'm going to be attending Hogwarts SOM and I was wondering if I will be able to get a residency in the US after I graduate? I heart that IMG's have a super hard time securing a spot. :(
 
Are there any alternatives to using US News and World Reports for getting an understanding of the various qualities of medical schools? This recent article supports my suspicions that US News offers an extremely narrow perspective of what makes a medical school good.

The problem with USNWR, and most school ranking systems for that matter, is that they attempt to be too broad. The criteria are too comprehensive. When you want to rank schools based on their faculty-student ratio, their MCAT average, their reputation with residency directors, you have to make an arbitrary decision about how much each of those factors will play into your ranking of which medical schools are "best."

If, however, you looked at the ratings for each individual criterion and evaluated them according to how important YOU think they are, then the data are somewhat valuable. Each criterion may not be able to encompass all that makes a med school "good", but an attempt to be so comprehensive will fail because the value judgments that go into factor weights are far from universal.

I beg everyone to stop looking at year-to-year variations in USNWR ranks. They happen largely either because of changes in methodology (arbitrary!) or changes in things you don't care about (maybe a bunch of NIH grants happened to expire together in one year -- it's cyclical and doesn't matter; why do you care what the acceptance rate of a school is -- there are too many ways to manipulate it). They want ranks to change a little from year to year in order to sell magazines and subscriptions.

What you should care about is the metrics that you say matter to you.

Many posters in this thread have alluded to the importance of reputation.
Medical school rankings only matter inasmuch as other people recognize the name and automatically think highly of its graduates.

So let's look at reputation in isolation. If you take 2011-2013 reputation data from peer schools (i.e. deans) and residency program directors, average them together, you get a clean split between the top 8 and everyone else:

  1. Harvard
  2. Johns Hopkins
  3. UCSF
  4. Stanford
  5. WashU
  6. Duke
  7. U Penn
  8. U Michigan

Really no surprises.

If you wanted to see the overlap with, say, the top 10 by step 1 score, you would find these schools remain: Harvard, Hopkins, WashU, Penn.
 
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The problem with USNWR, and most school ranking systems for that matter, is that they attempt to be too broad. The criteria are too comprehensive. When you want to rank schools based on their faculty-student ratio, their MCAT average, their reputation with residency directors, you have to make an arbitrary decision about how much each of those factors will play into your ranking of which medical schools are "best."

If, however, you looked at the ratings for each individual criterion and evaluated them according to how important YOU think they are, then the data are somewhat valuable. Each criterion may not be able to encompass all that makes a med school "good", but an attempt to be so comprehensive will fail because the value judgments that go into factor weights are far from universal.

I beg everyone to stop looking at year-to-year variations in USNWR ranks. They happen largely either because of changes in methodology (arbitrary!) or changes in things you don't care about (maybe a bunch of NIH grants happened to expire together in one year -- it's cyclical and doesn't matter; why do you care what the acceptance rate of a school is -- there are too many ways to manipulate it). They want ranks to change a little from year to year in order to sell magazines and subscriptions.

What you should care about is the metrics that you say matter to you.

Many posters in this thread have alluded to the importance of reputation.


So let's look at reputation in isolation. If you take 2011-2013 reputation data from peer schools (i.e. deans) and residency program directors, average them together, you get a clean split between the top 8 and everyone else:

  1. Harvard
  2. Johns Hopkins
  3. UCSF
  4. Stanford
  5. WashU
  6. Duke
  7. U Penn
  8. U Michigan

Really no surprises.

If you wanted to see the overlap with, say, the top 10 by step 1 score, you would find these schools remain: Harvard, Hopkins, WashU, Penn.

I remember you had an amazing series of write ups on school rankings on your blog, people should definitely give it a read.
 
All us allopathic medical schools are already the best of the best. A 5 pt score increase on the step1 is much more significant than the small difference between jhu med and no name med in my opinion.

But to answer your question, I believe forbes has a list as well.

Tell me how you feel about that when you're applying to residencies.
 
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Are there any alternatives to using US News and World Reports for getting an understanding of the various qualities of medical schools? This recent article supports my suspicions that US News offers an extremely narrow perspective of what makes a medical school good.

Cost of attendance. The cheapest school you get into is the best.
 
I would like to see rankings of schools by their average step 1 score.

Every school at which I interviewed tried to wow me with their above average Step 1 score. Maybe they were just "abive average" schools, but I doubt it.

Actual above average Step scores for a school are probably more due to selection bias than anything else. The students with high MCAT scores and GPAs (i.e. those that due a bit better on tests) attend the "top" medical schools, so those schools have higher USMLE score averages. The "top" schools aren't teaching anything special. In fact, the curriculum is relatively standardized and designed to produce a similar product, regardless of the presence or absence of a gourmet cafeteria on campus or NIH $ overloaded non-clinical faculty.

Go to the cheapest school you can. If you study hard and are good at tests, you will do fine on exams.
 
top 20:
Baylor
Penn
Harvard
WashU
Columbia
Johns Hopkins
Yale
Dartmouth
UChicago
UCLA
Mt. Sinai
Northwestern
Cornell
Mayo
Duke
UVirginia
UMichigan
UT Southwestern
Stanford
Vanderbilt

source: USNWR premium compass; school-reported 2012 data

Virginia Tech Carilion would actually be tied for second (with a 240), although they didn't report to USNews. Source: interview day
 
Virginia Tech Carilion would actually be tied for second (with a 240), although they didn't report to USNews. Source: interview day

This is actually old data, the current numbers for Step 1's are a bit higher now, as it tends to do year by year.
 
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