Medical School Rejection

[Pogchamp]

What are the reasons why students with super high MCAT (say, 524+?) and GPA get rejected from some medical schools? How could such students improve themselves, and what do medical schools wish were different about such individuals?

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[Goro]

Poor interview skills.

Bad letter of recommendation.

Bad essays

Applying late or to too few schools.

Lack of research for the Research Powerhouses

Bad behavior on Interview day.

How to improve?

Have a good school list, apply early, don't be arrogant.

 

[PotentiallyMDPHD]

Poor interview skills.

Bad letter of recommendation.

Bad essays

Applying late or to too few schools.

Lack of research for the Research Powerhouses

Bad behavior on Interview day.

How to improve?

Have a good school list, apply early, don't be arrogant, know how to talk to other human beings.

I'd add maybe a shortage of clinical or healthcare experience showing a dedication to medicine. OP never said post-interview rejection so maybe a shortage of experience or other EC's raised a red-flag.

 

[Isoval]

Poor interview skills.

Bad letter of recommendation.

Bad essays

Applying late or to too few schools.

Lack of research for the Research Powerhouses

Bad behavior on Interview day.

How to improve?

Have a good school list, apply early, don't be arrogant, know how to talk to other human beings.

Brb dying

 

[Goro]

I'd add maybe a shortage of clinical or healthcare experience showing a dedication to medicine. OP never said post-interview rejection so maybe a shortage of experience or other EC's raised a red-flag.

I forgot about that one! A common sin committed by hyperacheivers is that they spend tons of time in the lab and have minimal volunteering and./or patient contact experience.

 

[Lucca]

When is it considered "late" to apply?

Complete everywhere by Labor Day = average. Before that = early. After that = late. Roughly. Texas schools, for example, have their own cycle (about 1 month “faster” than national cycle).

 

[Phile98]

Bad letter of recommendation.

What do these look like? Do recommenders explicitly say bad things?

 

[Med Ed]

What do these look like? Do recommenders explicitly say bad things?

I have only seen that a handful to times. It is far more common to damn with faint praise.

 

[Goro]

What do these look like? Do recommenders explicitly say bad things?

I have only seen that a handful to times. It is far more common to damn with faint praise.

wow. I would have thought that the recommender would just say that they wouldn't write a letter instead of doing this. Isn't this a bit...malicious? Obviously, it must have not been a good decision for the student to ask, but still...

Agree with the wise Med Ed. Bad LORs are RARE. I see one maybe 1x/app cycle. They usually mention a single bad trait, like Jill had a habit of blaming her team members...

OR Jack was consistently late for lab and kept making the same mistakes, even following advice on how to avoid them...

OR Jane had some trust or control issues and so would do all the work of her lab partners

OR Jerry sometimes has trouble letting go; he will mull over a failed experiment and berate himself too much over it.

OR Jan talked a good talk, but couldn't walk the walk when she needed to perform at the level we expect.

These are real life examples. They weren't out and out Donald Trump-like flame attacks, they were letters of evaluation, assessing good and bad. This is actually what we want to see, but sadly, rarely get.

In my entire career, I've only written three bad LORs. These were for people who have no business being on a med school campus, even as cadavers. I normally will simply say "I can't write you a good one", and explain why (typically this is for poor academics.)

The best bad LOR was one I never got to write. When I was a post-doc, there was a PhD student in the lab who was not a nice person. How not nice? As vicious as a rattlesnake....would turn on you in a second. A Mexican post-doc in the lab and I used to call her "La Serpiente" (the Snake). She later left and took an MS instead. I heard from her about 1-2 years later, when she was thinking of going to grad school again, and she asked if "I could write her a LOR?"

I said "sure". She never followed up. That's one letter I sure would have loved to send!

See also this thread:
Do people actually write "Bad Letters"?!
Adcom members: How often do you get bad LoRs?

 

[AttemptingScholar]

What do these look like? Do recommenders explicitly say bad things?

Some might, or they may be pointedly faint with their praise ("candidate is better than average" vs "candidate isoutstandings"). Also too vauge/unspecific (why you want to avoid classes where you got an A but never talked 1-on-1 with the teacher). Ask people if they can write you a good letter of recommendation. Many will be honest with you about this.

 

[gyngyn]

What do these look like? Do recommenders explicitly say bad things?

They sometimes look like this: Poohbear was 55th in a class of 487. He attended all required activities in my rigorous class and received an A-.

 

[Goro]

They sometimes look like this: Poohbear was 55th in a class of 487. He attended all required activities in my rigorous class and received an A-.

Yup. Seen that too!

 

[LizzyM]

What do these look like? Do recommenders explicitly say bad things?

I've seen LORs that state that the applicant was a grade grubber who went into the final with an A but appeared to slack off but not enough to earn less than an A for the course. That puts the A in context for sure!

 

[Phile98]

I love seeing all of you adcoms have discussions like this. It's a treasure (or shall I say honey) trove for all of us. Y'all are the real MVPs.

 

[Goro]

This is from my guide to interviews:
Here are some things that get people rejected immediately:

· Being unprofessional for any reason. An example is addressing a faculty member by their first name. Another is chewing gum during the interview. If you have a dry mouth, suck on a lozenge instead. BTW, the interview lasts all day. Acting unprofessionally during your tour, like yelling at a parking attendant, or trashing the school, or expecting the Admissions Office staff to hang up your coat or fetch you coffee is duly noted and affects your fate accordingly.

· Not taking the interview seriously, like showing up poorly dressed. This is suit and tie time (and nice dress/outfit/suit for the ladies). You're going into character. Yes, if the airline loses your luggage, we understand that.

· Do NOT be arrogant. People who think that they're God's gift to Medicine do not go into Medicine.

· Being too shy or nervous. Being quiet is OK; being monosyllabic or robotic is not.

· Not making eye contact is also a no-no (yes I'm aware that in some cultures, one does not look elders in the eye, but this is the USA and you need to look people in the eye here).

· Any hints of immaturity will be lethal for your chances. We expect you to be thoughtful and self-aware. Would you admit the gal who, when asked a hypothetical, "What would you do in this situation?" answers, "Oh, that wouldn't happen."

· Showing you're greedy.

· Showing any hint of entitlement. This includes the “I was accepted to XSOM, so what are you going to do for me?” The answer will be “Good luck and have fun at XSOM.”

· Being clueless as to why you're choosing Medicine as a career.

· Doing this because your mom/dad wants you to be a doctor (or don't think you can be doctor).

· Completely lacking people skills (4.0 automatons are a dime a dozen, really).

· Showing that you're more interested in research than Medicine. This might be OK at Stanford, but it won’t fly at most other schools.

· Still being the hyper-gunner...I rejected a 4.0 gal who wanted to answer the questions I asked of another person in the interview panel. I don't want to admit someone who will be in my office whining about how they got a 95 on an exam and deserved a 96.

· Having a flat affect. This might be due to medication, or a mental or personality disorder. You ever meet someone who could never crack a smile? I don't want someone like that touching patients.

· Copping an attitude. I asked a woman why she didn't have any volunteer experience. She replied that she was too busy working. Fair enough, some people have lives, but she copped an attitude while delivering this, and I just wrote down "reject".

· Coming in with scripted answers and being unable to deviate from said script.

· Being ill-prepared for fairly common interview questions (e.g. Why this school? Why Medicine?)

· Thinking that always circling back to your accomplishments and how great you are impresses us.

· Making excuses for misdeeds. We had rejected someone once who had some fairly benign misdemeanors, but blamed it on the policemen who gave him the tickets.

· Don’t do show and tell. I don’t want you pulling out a binder with your resume or portfolio. Let your application speak for you.

· Being a babbling idiot. These are those people who can't answer a question concisely. I've sure you've met people like this...why bother using one word when ten will do? I suspect that they’re thinking for an answer while they're speaking, so the mouth is going while the brain tries to come up with something.

· It’s OK to gather your thoughts, but it’s not OK to blank out. This group includes the people who do something like this (and I am NOT making this up!):

goro: So tell me about this trip to Honduras
Interviewee: Well, we went there for a mission trip and...what was the question?
goro: (thinking: reject!)

Or the guy who, when asked "How does your hobby relate to the practice of Medicine?", and can't even say "It doesn't", and definitely can't even BS an answer, but sits there in a coma?

EDIT: looking at your cell phone when the Dean is talking to you is not a good career enhancer either.

 

[FreeRadicals]

"Sits there in a coma" had me dying @Goro

 

[ciestar]

This is from my guide to interviews:
Here are some things that get people rejected immediately:

· Being unprofessional for any reason. An example is addressing a faculty member by their first name. Another is chewing gum during the interview. If you have a dry mouth, suck on a lozenge instead. BTW, the interview lasts all day. Acting unprofessionally during your tour, like yelling at a parking attendant, or trashing the school, or expecting the Admissions Office staff to hang up your coat or fetch you coffee is duly noted and affects your fate accordingly.

· Not taking the interview seriously, like showing up poorly dressed. This is suit and tie time (and nice dress/outfit/suit for the ladies). You're going into character. Yes, if the airline loses your luggage, we understand that.

· Do NOT be arrogant. People who think that they're God's gift to Medicine do not go into Medicine.

· Being too shy or nervous. Being quiet is OK; being monosyllabic or robotic is not.

· Not making eye contact is also a no-no (yes I'm aware that in some cultures, one does not look elders in the eye, but this is the USA and you need to look people in the eye here).

· Any hints of immaturity will be lethal for your chances. We expect you to be thoughtful and self-aware. Would you admit the gal who, when asked a hypothetical, "What would you do in this situation?" answers, "Oh, that wouldn't happen."

· Showing you're greedy.

· Showing any hint of entitlement. This includes the “I was accepted to XSOM, so what are you going to do for me?” The answer will be “Good luck and have fun at XSOM.”

· Being clueless as to why you're choosing Medicine as a career.

· Doing this because your mom/dad wants you to be a doctor (or don't think you can be doctor).

· Completely lacking people skills (4.0 automatons are a dime a dozen, really).

· Showing that you're more interested in research than Medicine. This might be OK at Stanford, but it won’t fly at most other schools.

· Still being the hyper-gunner...I rejected a 4.0 gal who wanted to answer the questions I asked of another person in the interview panel. I don't want to admit someone who will be in my office whining about how they got a 95 on an exam and deserved a 96.

· Having a flat affect. This might be due to medication, or a mental or personality disorder. You ever meet someone who could never crack a smile? I don't want someone like that touching patients.

· Copping an attitude. I asked a woman why she didn't have any volunteer experience. She replied that she was too busy working. Fair enough, some people have lives, but she copped an attitude while delivering this, and I just wrote down "reject".

· Coming in with scripted answers and being unable to deviate from said script.

· Being ill-prepared for fairly common interview questions (e.g. Why this school? Why Medicine?)

· Thinking that always circling back to your accomplishments and how great you are impresses us.

· Making excuses for misdeeds. We had rejected someone once who had some fairly benign misdemeanors, but blamed it on the policemen who gave him the tickets.

· Don’t do show and tell. I don’t want you pulling out a binder with your resume or portfolio. Let your application speak for you.

· Being a babbling idiot. These are those people who can't answer a question concisely. I've sure you've met people like this...why bother using one word when ten will do? I suspect that they’re thinking for an answer while they're speaking, so the mouth is going while the brain tries to come up with something.

· It’s OK to gather your thoughts, but it’s not OK to blank out. This group includes the people who do something like this (and I am NOT making this up!):

goro: So tell me about this trip to Honduras
Interviewee: Well, we went there for a mission trip and...what was the question?
goro: (thinking: reject!)

Or the guy who, when asked "How does your hobby relate to the practice of Medicine?", and can't even say "It doesn't", and definitely can't even BS an answer, but sits there in a coma?

CELL PHONE USE.

 

[Goro]

CELL PHONE USE.

Luckily, this hasn't happened yet at our school.

 

[ciestar]

Luckily, this hasn't happened yet at our school.

I saw it once on a tour. Another person in my class said an applicant was on their phone the entire time at lunch. If you insist, excuse yourself to the bathroom and just do it there.

 

[Phile98]

Another person in my class said an applicant was on their phone the entire time at lunch

They watch you while eating????

 

[ciestar]

They watch you while eating????

At my school, it is a casual lunch interview with a student. So, yes. If you’re eating lunch with current students..you probably shouldn’t be on your phone.

 

[Phile98]

At my school, it is a casual lunch interview with a student. So, yes. If you’re eating lunch with current students..you probably shouldn’t be on your phone.

Ohhh...I was imagining a casual lunch break where people would be secretly spying on you from afar. Sorta like this:

 

[LizzyM]

They watch you while eating????

and you had better use the correct fork!

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

· Being a babbling idiot. These are those people who can't answer a question concisely. I've sure you've met people like this...why bother using one word when ten will do? I suspect that they’re thinking for an answer while they're speaking, so the mouth is going while the brain tries to come up with something.

Being a babbling idiot comes in many shapes and forms. For example, I met a person at one interview who (rather loudly) was talking about their wild night at the bar the night before the interview and kept asking fellow interviewees to celebrate our interview that night at another bar.

At least wait until the day is over until you hit everyone with the undergrad party culture dude.

 

[Robin-jay]

Not taking the interview seriously, like showing up poorly dressed. This is suit and tie time (and nice dress/outfit/suit for the ladies). You're going into character. Yes, if the airline loses your luggage, we understand that.

What are some of the most poorly dressed applicants you've seen? I've never seen anything but suits/dresses at my interviews.

 

[Robin-jay]

Being a babbling idiot comes in many shapes and forms. For example, I met a person at one interview who (rather loudly) was talking about their wild night at the bar the night before the interview and kept asking fellow interviewees to celebrate our interview that night at another bar.

At least wait until the day is over until you hit everyone with the undergrad party culture dude.

There are times to party and there are times to not.

There are times to brag about partying, and there are times to not.

 

[gyngyn]

What are some of the most poorly dressed applicants you've seen? I've never seen anything but suits/dresses at my interviews.

Scuba dress, animal prints, Lucite heels, V neck to the waist, nasal septum nose ring, visible umbilical piercing, 12 cm gothic script of former love interest along longitudinal axis of inner thigh, spandex cat suit, ragged jeans, Louis Vuitton bag and dust bag...

 

[ciestar]

Don't get me started.

Oh, but please?

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

I know a guy with a 522 MCAT and just under a 4.0 who didn’t get accepted this past cycle. He applied to 20 schools and most were top 20 schools. Didn’t have any clinical volunteering. Shadowed 1 doctor and for 30 hours. No nonclinical volunteering. Wasn’t involved in any clubs on campus. No leadership positions. He had 3 years of research and poster presentations. He wanted MD/PhD. He is one of those people that shows no desire for medicine and patients. Just wants in for research. I asked him why not get a PhD and do research with that. He said nah he wants to go to med school. Doesn’t make any since. Since then he’s gotten some volunteering and shadowed another doctor so we will see how next cycle goes I guess.

 

[gyngyn]

Oh, but please?

I'll continue later...

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

What are some of the most poorly dressed applicants you've seen? I've never seen anything but suits/dresses at my interviews.

I always notice when males are poorly dressed because it's really easy to not mess up a suit/tie. The spiked hair + pink tie + wing tip collar + pinstripe suit combination was my personal favorite. I'm sure the adcomms have seen much worse, though.

 

[Goro]

Scuba dress, animal prints, Lucite heels, V neck to the waist, nasal septum nose ring, visible umbilical piercing, spandex cat suit, ragged jeans, Louis Vuitton bag and dust bag...

You forgot the ice skater

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

This is from my guide to interviews:
Here are some things that get people rejected immediately:

· Being unprofessional for any reason. An example is addressing a faculty member by their first name. Another is chewing gum during the interview. If you have a dry mouth, suck on a lozenge instead. BTW, the interview lasts all day. Acting unprofessionally during your tour, like yelling at a parking attendant, or trashing the school, or expecting the Admissions Office staff to hang up your coat or fetch you coffee is duly noted and affects your fate accordingly.

· Not taking the interview seriously, like showing up poorly dressed. This is suit and tie time (and nice dress/outfit/suit for the ladies). You're going into character. Yes, if the airline loses your luggage, we understand that.

· Do NOT be arrogant. People who think that they're God's gift to Medicine do not go into Medicine.

· Being too shy or nervous. Being quiet is OK; being monosyllabic or robotic is not.

· Not making eye contact is also a no-no (yes I'm aware that in some cultures, one does not look elders in the eye, but this is the USA and you need to look people in the eye here).

· Any hints of immaturity will be lethal for your chances. We expect you to be thoughtful and self-aware. Would you admit the gal who, when asked a hypothetical, "What would you do in this situation?" answers, "Oh, that wouldn't happen."

· Showing you're greedy.

· Showing any hint of entitlement. This includes the “I was accepted to XSOM, so what are you going to do for me?” The answer will be “Good luck and have fun at XSOM.”

· Being clueless as to why you're choosing Medicine as a career.

· Doing this because your mom/dad wants you to be a doctor (or don't think you can be doctor).

· Completely lacking people skills (4.0 automatons are a dime a dozen, really).

· Showing that you're more interested in research than Medicine. This might be OK at Stanford, but it won’t fly at most other schools.

· Still being the hyper-gunner...I rejected a 4.0 gal who wanted to answer the questions I asked of another person in the interview panel. I don't want to admit someone who will be in my office whining about how they got a 95 on an exam and deserved a 96.

· Having a flat affect. This might be due to medication, or a mental or personality disorder. You ever meet someone who could never crack a smile? I don't want someone like that touching patients.

· Copping an attitude. I asked a woman why she didn't have any volunteer experience. She replied that she was too busy working. Fair enough, some people have lives, but she copped an attitude while delivering this, and I just wrote down "reject".

· Coming in with scripted answers and being unable to deviate from said script.

· Being ill-prepared for fairly common interview questions (e.g. Why this school? Why Medicine?)

· Thinking that always circling back to your accomplishments and how great you are impresses us.

· Making excuses for misdeeds. We had rejected someone once who had some fairly benign misdemeanors, but blamed it on the policemen who gave him the tickets.

· Don’t do show and tell. I don’t want you pulling out a binder with your resume or portfolio. Let your application speak for you.

· Being a babbling idiot. These are those people who can't answer a question concisely. I've sure you've met people like this...why bother using one word when ten will do? I suspect that they’re thinking for an answer while they're speaking, so the mouth is going while the brain tries to come up with something.

· It’s OK to gather your thoughts, but it’s not OK to blank out. This group includes the people who do something like this (and I am NOT making this up!):

goro: So tell me about this trip to Honduras
Interviewee: Well, we went there for a mission trip and...what was the question?
goro: (thinking: reject!)

Or the guy who, when asked "How does your hobby relate to the practice of Medicine?", and can't even say "It doesn't", and definitely can't even BS an answer, but sits there in a coma?

I had an interviewee call me "fam". It made me feel very old.

 

[gyngyn]

You forgot the ice skater

White spandex catsuit with V neck (mesh) to pubis.

 

[B4y 4RE4 N4Tiv3]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 These posts!

 

[DokterMom]

They watch you while eating????

I once lost a great job because I foolishly ordered seafood (in the shell) at lunch... And refused to hire someone who was very qualified because he chewed with his mouth open, talked with his mouth full, and waved his fork and roll around while talking. (He's gone onto surprisingly high places, but I was just grossed out -- and I'm not that picky.)

Scuba dress, animal prints, Lucite heels, V neck to the waist, nasal septum nose ring, visible umbilical piercing, 12 cm gothic script of former love interest along longitudinal axis of inner thigh, spandex cat suit, ragged jeans, LV bag and dust bag...

And the dust bag?! Like dust bag over the LV?

White spandex catsuit with V neck (mesh) to pubis.

Please tell me skating costume applicant was not a well-known former Olympian who has fallen on hard times...

 

[gyngyn]

And the dust bag?! Like dust bag over the LV?

Please tell me skating costume applicant was not a well-known former Olympian who has fallen on hard times...

The dust bag that goes with the purse was used as an auxiliary bag!
Yes, I'm afraid that you have probably identified the same skater. It was a while back, but I can't quite get the image out of my mind's eye. So strange.

 

[Chocolate Sundae]

Poor interview skills.

Bad letter of recommendation.

Bad essays

Applying late or to too few schools.

Lack of research for the Research Powerhouses

Bad behavior on Interview day.

How to improve?

Have a good school list, apply early, don't be arrogant, know how to talk to other human beings.

D people ever yawn during an interview? When I’m tired I yawn nonstop. What about someone with a runny nose who keeps pulling out Kleenex?

 

[DokterMom]

Oh my...
Oh my my my my my...

The mind boggles

 

[Goro]

D people ever yawn during an interview? When I’m tired I yawn nonstop. What about someone with a runny nose who keeps pulling out Kleenex?

I don't recall yawning. One or twice I've had a cold and had to keep using tissues during an interview!

 

[OchemOficionado]

Scuba dress, animal prints, Lucite heels, V neck to the waist, nasal septum nose ring, visible umbilical piercing, 12 cm gothic script of former love interest along longitudinal axis of inner thigh, spandex cat suit, ragged jeans, Louis Vubag and dust bag...

You know your women’s fashion! I had to google most of this, haha!

 

[Med Ed]

Scuba dress, animal prints, Lucite heels, V neck to the waist, nasal septum nose ring, visible umbilical piercing, 12 cm gothic script of former love interest along longitudinal axis of inner thigh, spandex cat suit, ragged jeans, Louis Vuitton bag and dust bag...

Conformist.

 

[theKingLT]

and you had better use the correct fork!

 

[LizzyM]

View attachment 237482

Trick question... 11 would be correct if the first course is a fish cocktail. Otherwise, it would not be on the table and you' start with the fork furthest from the plate which would be #2.

 

[insaiyan-premed]

Because they're apart of the dark side and only a Sith deals in absolute.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

I gather that if you are a stellar enough applicant - an Olympic medalist with a 3.9/525 - you can get away with a lot! I wonder whether a Nobel Peace Prize winner would be able to get away with an even more outlandish costume.

 

[Goro]

I have seen more than one superstar with 520+/3.9+, 3000 hours of research, 500 hours of shadowing academic specialties, and little to non clinical or community service, and some of the biggest, arrogant, overconfident egos in the world

You too? We reject people like that as soon as we leave the interview room. That actually takes some work to do!