Medical School vs. Dental School

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Siubking

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I graduated with a BS in biochemistry in Fall 2005 and I am currently working as a research lab technician for half a year. I am in a dilemma right now because I am having second thoughts on if I really should do medicine. I've seen people graduated medical school but cannot get into a residency program and work as a lab tech with crappy pay. I've heard from my gf (a nurse) that interns and residents work close a 100 hrs a week. I've seen doctors working just for money and having no passion towards medicine (or patients). I've heard doctors saying they wouldn't want to do medicine if they have the chance to pick again. I don't know if it is worth it to devote so many years of life to become one of these people. I seriously do have a passion towards medicine and helping people, but I also want a life and have a family with decent pay. On the other hand, dentists seem to enjoy life more than doctors but make about the same, if not more, than what doctors make. Dentists also help people and also have a lot less pressure dealing with patients. Dentists seem to come out and make money sooner since their residency is only 1 year and I need to come out to help support my family because I am not from a wealthy family and I don't want to see my dad working in a job that gives him bad leg and back which he always complains about. PLEASE GIVE ME SOME INPUT!

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coming from a family where there are 2 dentists...and...alot more MDs (including surgery)... i can tell you that dentists' work is alot harder than most MD's..its alot more stressful and hence the compensation is usually higher if u know how to do business.... once u finished MD residency you have more to play with but yes. to make decent $ ur lookin at 5-6 years residency making 50k
 
MyNameIsAlex:
I have some questions for you regarding MD residency. My gf told me that you have to be an intern for some time before getting into a residency program after graduating med school, is that true? How long does internship take? I know residency is usually 2-7 years, depending on the specialty. Can you give me a list of specialty and the number of years of residency each one requires? I am interested in neurology, how long is that gonna take? Also, how much does an intern get paid? A resident? Are interns/residents required to pay their med school loans during those years of training? THANKS!
 
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Med school and dental school are 2 different things. Graduating from Med school will give one a lot more options than dental school. Now I dont know what people you know of that graduated from med school that cannot find a residency bc THERE IS NOT A US MEDICAL GRAD THAT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIND A RESIDENCY. The only time I could see that happenin is if one went to med school in the carribean. REsidents work 80hrs/week period! Neurology will run about 4 yrs after med school. Hope that helps.
ECU MED 07
 
phdmed07 said:
Med school and dental school are 2 different things. Graduating from Med school will give one a lot more options than dental school. Now I dont know what people you know of that graduated from med school that cannot find a residency bc THERE IS NOT A US MEDICAL GRAD THAT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIND A RESIDENCY. The only time I could see that happenin is if one went to med school in the carribean. REsidents work 80hrs/week period! Neurology will run about 4 yrs after med school. Hope that helps.
ECU MED 07

I have experience as a private practice dentist and resident. Some thoughts: Firstly, dental residencies range from 1 (general dental practice) to 3 (orthodontics, endodontics,etc) to 6 years (oral maxillofacial surgery with MD). One major advantage (which is what I did) is we can do private practice for a couple years then apply to specialty residencies. This is where the stress level is drastically different. I got 2 years to take vacations, get married, leave academia for a while, make really good money, then went back in to a residency refreshed. My med buddies were really struggling financially and emotionally at that point. Seems like the ones that matched at their top choices (optho, surgery, derm) were much, much happier than the ones who didn't (peds, ob/gyn, family practice). I think yes dentistry can be stressful, but it's less stressful than many medical specialties. Med is more stressful especially b/c of the HMO's, insurance crap that they have to go through. I didn't find general dentistry too stressful at all - i enjoyed it a lot in fact. In terms of options after graduation, sure medicine has more being a much bigger field, but dentistry has more than most ppl. think. I know many dentists doing all kinds of stuff, including: working for state public health depts, TMJ research, one of my profs quit teaching and is now working for a private company making artificial saliva for cancer patients. So there's a lot out there. One thing, dental school is much tougher than you may think. At my school, and many others (Columbia, UConn, Harvard, McGill), we took the first 16 months of the medical school curriculum together with the meds, and then in 2nd year dental clinic is very difficult in terms of long days working on manual dexterity (talking tenths of a millimeter here my friend). But in my mind, it's all worth it in the end b/c the lifestyle of the "average dent" is much better than the "average md's" lifestyle (derm, radio, anaesth, optho have it great in med, while oral surgeons don't in dentistry so it's not always true).
In any event, best of luck to you. I strongly recommend you visit some dent and med offices, and schools, and talk to as many ppl. as possible. I'm sure you'll make the right decision.
 
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the career with the highest rate of suicide: dentistry
 
bluenebula83 said:
the career with the highest rate of suicide: dentistry

That's a dumb rumor. Completely untrue.
 
bluenebula83 said:
the career with the highest rate of suicide: dentistry

Urban legend. I can't believe any professional (or pre-professional) would spout off that comment as truth. :laugh:
 
Vitae said:
Urban legend. I can't believe any professional (or pre-professional) would spout off that comment as truth. :laugh:


Between the years 1995-2005, medical doctors had a higher rate of suicide than dentists. I'll try to locate the exact stats and post here. In either case, both occupations were relatively low compared to others.
 
haha geez guys, relax. don't get all defensive. it's just a joke. :D
 
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bluenebula83 said:
haha geez guys, relax. don't get all defensive. it's just a joke. :D

nice recovery. that was a joke too:)
 
The answer is quite simple. What do you WANT to do?

CrazyPremed
 
bluenebula83 said:
the career with the highest rate of suicide: dentistry

Anyone interested in medicine should know the first rule in science. Quote primary literature, it's best if the data source is your own research, but if not at least have a reference people can research.

Ronald Maris, PhD, director of the Center for the Study of Suicide and Life-Threatening Behavior at the University of South Carolina, "Occupation is not a major predictor of suicide and it does not explain much about why the person commits suicide."

Source : Monitor on Psychology, Volume 32, No. 1 January 2001
 
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16255463&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990."

Bureau of Economic Research and Statistics, "Mortality of Dentists, 1968 to 1972," Journal of the American Dental Association, January 1975, p. 195ff.


http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3004.htm


if you do a search you will find that suicide is high for dentists, physicians (mainly psychiatrists), pharmacists, and lawyers.
 
Talk to a dentist who is practicing for 10+ years. ALL the ones I spoke to were UNHAPPY - although when I see them outside of the practice, they do seem happier then the doctors I know. They seem more "disconnected" from their work when they are out. I don't think it should be that hard of a decision for you since dentistry and medicine do have a lot of differences.
 
One thing you need to realize is that dentistry and medicine are different animals. They are both healthcare providers and take similiar classes but dentistry is more small business centered than medicine. Many dentists own their own clinics. Physicians can as well, but many also work as salaried associates.

Also, dentistry focuses on the oral region and there's alot more manual work. Medicine focuses on the rest of the body (and oral region depending on what you do). Medicine won't require as much manual work as dentistry. You need to ask yourself which one is good for you.

The above poster is correct that the ONLY med student grads that DON'T get a residency are carribean/foreign grads. There are more residency spots available than US grads that graduate. Every year, these open residency spots are available to foreign physicians after the US grads match into them. The match rate for foreign grads are lower.

Now granted, there are US med grads that don't match into residency because the programs they listed they were interested in weren't interested in them. They have to scramble for their spots, but since there are always spots available, it just means being stuck somewhere undisireable doing something you don't like.

Surf this forum a bit and you will see that no one has problem getting into a residency as long as they aren't picky about which area of medicine/location of residency. I believe neurology is not one of the harder residencies to match into, but I could be wrong. You should go to the residency forums and ask.

If you go into med school, as long as you pass all your courses and boards, you WILL get a residency somewhere, in something. Once you graduate from med school and finish residency, you will have little trouble getting a job as long as you don't mind location, and physicians have starting salaries in the six figure range.

But you will also be deep in debt, about six figures is average debt for med student. You will also work your tail off (avg 80/hr week) during residency which can last from between 3-7 years. Dentistry does not require residency, but debt laod is similar. You will also be well paid as a dentist (six figures) so money is not a huge issue if you go either way.

In the end, what makes dentists/docs unhappy is largely the result of how little they enjoy what they are doing. ISure, there are problems in healthcare that can stress out either profession but in the end, if you truly have a passion for what you do, you will enjoy it.

I suggest you shadow you local dentists and physicians to see which would interest you more.
 
Siubking said:
I graduated with a BS in biochemistry in Fall 2005 and I am currently working as a research lab technician for half a year. I am in a dilemma right now because I am having second thoughts on if I really should do medicine. I've seen people graduated medical school but cannot get into a residency program and work as a lab tech with crappy pay. I've heard from my gf (a nurse) that interns and residents work close a 100 hrs a week. I've seen doctors working just for money and having no passion towards medicine (or patients). I've heard doctors saying they wouldn't want to do medicine if they have the chance to pick again. I don't know if it is worth it to devote so many years of life to become one of these people. I seriously do have a passion towards medicine and helping people, but I also want a life and have a family with decent pay. On the other hand, dentists seem to enjoy life more than doctors but make about the same, if not more, than what doctors make. Dentists also help people and also have a lot less pressure dealing with patients. Dentists seem to come out and make money sooner since their residency is only 1 year and I need to come out to help support my family because I am not from a wealthy family and I don't want to see my dad working in a job that gives him bad leg and back which he always complains about. PLEASE GIVE ME SOME INPUT!

I really think its what makes you happy that counts. In dentistry we do a lot with our hands. We are surgeons of the dentition. Its not only prescribing meds its cutting teeth and then rebuilding them, it is an art and a science. If you like working with your hands, look closely at dentistry.

As far as the residency, it is not required, since you come out of 4 years of D school knowing all your procedures and passing the boards pt II. However, you can choose to do a GPR (hospital based) or an AGED (D school based) residency for advanced training. The other choices with a DDS are specialties in the 9 ADA recognized specialties some of which include, ortho, pedo, endo, oral pathology and oral and maxillofacial surgery and public health just to name a few.

That's just a view of dentistry. Both are good professions. Good luck.
 
This thread is very helpful. Good thing this is not a "my profession is better than yours" type of forum. I've seen much worse in the residency forums. Whatever profession you end up choosing should be one that will make you happy. Good luck!
 
I honestly think dentistry is a much sweeter gig than many specialties in medicine...and I'm in medical school. A friend of mine once told me that if you don't expect to be in the top end of your class so that you can match in one of the lifestyle specialties, you should go dental. I think the only reason medicine still attracts the best students, in spite of the awesome lifestlye/pay enjoyed by dentists, is the prestige factor. Unfortunately, some still regard dentists as "med school rejects" or "fake doctors." Apparently, some type-As just aren't willing to walk around with that designation...even if it means giving up 200k at <40hrs/week (yes, dentistry is that good)! I know that when I was considering a career, dentistry was never an option. Sadly, I bought into the "med school reject" theory and never took the time to see what an awesome career it really is. In the end, I think your best bet is to volunteer in each field and get as much exposure as possible. It might be easier to make up your mind when you've had some real world experience.
 
Siubking said:
I've seen doctors working just for money and having no passion towards medicine (or patients). I've heard doctors saying they wouldn't want to do medicine if they have the chance to pick again.

There are also those types of people in dentistry. It is easy to be excited about a career when you are young and looking from the outside in, but after 10 years anything can become just a job. I promise you that there are days when Tiger Woods wakes up and says "Crap!!! Golf again?!!!"

Dentistry -especially general dentistry- offers great opportunity to spice things up when your job starts getting stale. Many dentists enjoy the challenge of growing a small business and really start to focus on that. Others expand their clinical skills through continuing education -- learning to do orthodontics, keeping more complex surgeries in your office instead of referring, etc...

The big sticking point though is that you have to know you like dentistry when you start school. When you graduate you are going to be working with teeth. End of story. Medicine is different because it is so broad. You can go to med school wanting to be a psychiatrist because you like working with people and after four years decide to do path because you realized you actually can't stand seeing patients.

No matter how much the four years of medical school changes you, when you graduate there is bound to be an area that suits you well.

Dentists also help people and also have a lot less pressure dealing with patients.

All is not what it seems. Dealing with patients can be even more of a hassle for the dentist because he is the head honcho. He isn't just worried about explaining and providing treatment; he is ultimately responible for everything from billing questions, to insurance, to how the staff treats the patient. There is a LOT of stress there. And don't forget that you are in customer service so you have to do all this with a smile -- this Dr. House nonsense just doesn't work for dentists.

Dentists seem to come out and make money sooner since their residency is only 1 year

As another poster pointed out residency ranges from 1-6 years. The money can be good for dentists -- VERY, VERY GOOD. But it can also be pretty average. There is a lot more variability than there is with medicine. As a general dentist you may be taking home anywhere from $70,000 to $400,000+

I don't want to see my dad working in a job that gives him bad leg and back which he always complains about.

Despite what it may seem dentistry is very physically demanding. Nearly all dentists will develop chronic lowerback pain. It is just an accepted drawback of the profession. You can prolong the onset by taking care of yourself but few completely escape it. Chronic neck and hand pain are also very common. You may just be setting yourself up to inherit his same problems.


I think both medicine and dentistry are great professions. both have their drawbacks and both have some great advantages. In the end you just have to pick the one that fits you best.
 
Oh, one more thing about dental residencies. Remember that while medical residents may be poorly paid, dental residents are often unpaid and/or CHARGED TUITION!!!! Just one more thing to think about. :laugh:
 
Either way you go you're going to make a good living and be in the top 2-3% of wage earners in the US. Most figures I've seen have the average dentist and family practice docs making $120,000-150,000/year with surgical specialists making in the 200-300,000 range commonly. There will be some dentists that you hear of making closer to a half million a year, and you will also hear of some physicians topping out at over a million a year for things like plastics, opthalmology, and a couple other specialties with high levels of purely elective procedures. Don't count on either one though, because setups like those are few and far between. Look at the averages and you'll get an idea where you'll most likely be.

All that being said, you've gotta do what you think you'll be more passionate about. If you're going into dentistry or medicine for the money then you'll be sorely disappointed. No amount of money can replace being miserable while you are on the job.
 
First of all, congratulations for narrowing down your choices to medicine or dentistry. Both are excellent career choices. I too was torn between medicine and dentistry especially since I applied to school later in life after having worked for several years. In general, dentistry offers a better lifestyle. You have the option of practicing upon graduation. You will have little to no call. It's easier to plan vacations and take time off in dentistry. And the income potential is huge in dentistry. I know many dentists who earn more than physicians and still maintain a great lifestyle (4 days).

Medicine has a bad reputation regarding lifestyle and unfortunately most of it is hype. Yes, dentistry still offers a better lifestyle than medicine in general but many fields of medicine can offer an 8-5, 5 days per week lifestyle. There are several careers in medicine in which you can have a life, and no, I'm not just talking about dermatology. Family medicine, Internal medicine, Psychiatry, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Pediatrics, Emergency Medicine, Radiology, Opthalmology, Urology, Allergy/Immunology etc. The only fields of medicine that absolutely demand a tough lifestyle are the surgical ones like neurosurgery, trauma surgery, and general surgery. In medicine, lifestyle is what you make of it. You can choose to work less hours and take less call for less money. And by less money, I'm still talking about a very competitive salary. A lot of lifestyle fields have tough residencies but great post-residency lifestyles like ENT or even orthopedic surgery. A lot of doctors who complain about their lifestyle could easily choose to work less hours but they want to earn the highest income possible. For example, cardiologists can work 4 days per week and easily earn 200K but when the potential to earn 400K-1M exists especially after spending so many years in training, it's hard to suppress your lifestyle for less money.

And residency isn't that bad. Your intern year after medical school is pretty harsh but your second year gets consideraly better and your third year is normal with the exception of 2-3 tough months. The surgical residencies are tough and require a lot of work but no one is forcing you to do surgery.

Income-wise, both fields have their positives and negatives. With medicine, you will have to wait at least 3 years before you earn a 6 figure salary. The advantage of medicine is that you can join a large group upon completion of your residency and earn a large paycheck without worrying about purchasing or starting a practice like dentists are eventually forced to doing if they want to earn more than they can as an Associate (60-100K). In dentistry, I feel you have no choice but to run a business if you want to earn a high salary. Physicians can escape the responsibilities of running a practice by joining a large group or working on salary in a hospital. Most dental patients paying cash. There is less threat from litigation in dentistry. You will have to pay far less in malpractice insurance. Dentistry, in general, requires more procedures so most of your patients will require a procedure. Most of the time in medicine, you will be seeing a patient for a consult which doesn't pay well per patient. The procedure heavy fields of medicine are surgical fields and internal medicine subspecialty fields like cardiology.

So the bottom line is you should choose what you can see yourself being happy with. Both careers have advantages and neither one is better than the other. I have some good friends who are dentists and physicians and both parties love what they do. Ultimately, I chose medicine because I enjoy talking and spending a considerable amount of time consulting with patients. I'm leaning toward a primary care field. At this point, I'm not really that crazy about doing a lot of procedures and working with my hands. Dentistry feels more like a surgical subspecialty so it wasn't for me.
 
Hey..... WHAT ABOUT CARPENTARY.....Just kidding.
I think you will do very well with anyone of those careers.
GOOD-LUCk
 
What happened to the OP?

Anyways, people aren't happy all the time even if they are pursuing their passion. There will always be "down" times. But the most important thing is to do what you love. Try volunteering or shadowing a doc. See how you'll like the lifestyle. Then do the same with a dentist, and decide for yourself.
 
Aside from personal issues like quality of life, pay, etc there's one issue that I haven't seen anyone mention. That is the impact that a doc vs. dentist can make on their communities. For most of us 20-somethings it's not much of a consideration. However my main reason for choosing medicine was the potential for making real and significant differences in people's lives. Sure fixing a cavity or performing a root canal can improve someone's dental health (and pay very well) but it really doesn't compare to doing something like performing life-saving heart surgery on a premature newborn. Granted not all docs do that sort of work, but doing things as simple as treating hypertension and diabetes can be radically life-prolonging.
 
Granted not all docs do that sort of work, but doing things as simple as treating hypertension and diabetes can be radically life-prolonging.[/QUOTE]

yeah but the quality of that prolonged life would the pretty bad if the patient had to live with a bad bite, teeth rot (esp. in babies who drink from a bottle), gum infections, missing teeth, painful caries, etc...
any health career, and many others outside of health too, are necessary and beneficial to society. Yes, even if youre not a life-saving surgeon...

All you need is compassion... dont believe me? watch a dentist donate his/her time to give treatment to children and adults who have never been to a dentist because of low income. I have. The patients leave smiling. Its INCREDIBLY rewarding... and I was only watching.
 
I just wanted to discuss the physical demands of dentistry and essentially all surgical specialties. I know 3 dentists and 2 surgeons, either as family friends or friends of friends who all developed serious hand problems. A few got tremors in their hands and a few got severe arthritis, all around the age of 40-50. Thus, they were forced into early retirement. Some of them love golfing everyday, but some of them are completely miserable. After this, though, I knew that whatever field I went into in medicine wouldn't be based on using my hands to make extremely precise movements.

I'm just curious for you aspiring or current dentists and surgeons, does this kind of thing scare you? I also know docs who have fine hands later in life, but I feel like this is a pretty common trend...
 
Nahh it shouldnt scare anyone I dont think.... after all, if that were to happen, you could always make your clinic BIGGER (include in it an ortho, a pedo, a oral surgery section and cosmetic too...) and hire more specialists and dentists to work in it... there are PLENTY of dentists who would love to work without having to manage the clinic itself. So if you are 4--50+ you are most likely an experienced dentist, and you could keep yourself busy and challenged running that multi-specialty practice--- while still have time to meet the patients, advertise the clinic, do hobbies, etc.

This could also be done in a medical practice... my mom works for this health center and the owner doesnt treat the patients himself, but he is very proactive in the clinic and enjoys the business aspect too.

There is sooooo much to do if you use your mind and optimism.
 
TiVoglioBene! said:
Granted not all docs do that sort of work, but doing things as simple as treating hypertension and diabetes can be radically life-prolonging.
yeah but the quality of that prolonged life would the pretty bad if the patient had to live with a bad bite, teeth rot (esp. in babies who drink from a bottle), gum infections, missing teeth, painful caries, etc...
any health career, and many others outside of health too, are necessary and beneficial to society. Yes, even if youre not a life-saving surgeon...

All you need is compassion... dont believe me? watch a dentist donate his/her time to give treatment to children and adults who have never been to a dentist because of low income. I have. The patients leave smiling. Its INCREDIBLY rewarding... and I was only watching.

Don't get me wrong: I was not suggesting that dentists don't help people. I've had my fair share of dental work done and there's no doubt that it has enhanced my quality of life. My point was that dentists lack the potential to make the sort of profound life-altering differences that docs do.
 
size_tens said:
Don't get me wrong: I was not suggesting that dentists don't help people. I've had my fair share of dental work done and there's no doubt that it has enhanced my quality of life. My point was that dentists lack the potential to make the sort of profound life-altering differences that docs do.

True, the dentist doesnt expect anyone to be in a life-or-death situation in their dental chair... and they do work less hours... i think the average was 32 hours/week. But anyway, it all depends on what life-altering means to you.

I just happen to think that you dont have to perform an open-heart surgery, or even surgery at all--- or for that matter, become an m.d. or dentist to make a life-altering difference.

****And Im NOT saying this to contradict you, actually an Admissions Officer at a very competitive Ivy school told me that SOOO many applicants say in the interview that they apply to medical school to make "profound life-altering differences" in peoples lives.... And as soon as the admission officers inform them that there are MANY ways to "help people" and that medicine is just one of many, they go blank. And in some cases, when the students (who are nervous anyway from the interview) defend their answer to say medicine is better than the "other" ones, it backfires bc it makes them sound condescending--- and the last thing admissions officers want are condescending colleagues...
 
TiVoglioBene! said:
True, the dentist doesnt expect anyone to be in a life-or-death situation in their dental chair... and they do work less hours... i think the average was 32 hours/week. But anyway, it all depends on what life-altering means to you.

I just happen to think that you dont have to perform an open-heart surgery, or even surgery at all--- or for that matter, become an m.d. or dentist to make a life-altering difference.

****And Im NOT saying this to contradict you, actually an Admissions Officer at a very competitive Ivy school told me that SOOO many applicants say in the interview that they apply to medical school to make "profound life-altering differences" in peoples lives.... And as soon as the admission officers inform them that there are MANY ways to "help people" and that medicine is just one of many, they go blank. And in some cases, when the students (who are nervous anyway from the interview) defend their answer to say medicine is better than the "other" ones, it backfires bc it makes them sound condescending--- and the last thing admissions officers want are condescending colleagues...

My feelings exactly. Life-altering is all relative to a person's point of view.

To the OP: I'm not trying to be mean or anything but since you don't know that you want to be a doc or a dentist--maybe you shouldn't go into medicine. I don't know much about dentistry, but medicine will challenge all aspects of your life. It is very demanding and takes a lot of passion and dedication. If you aren't that sure, especially when comparing "apples to oranges" so to speak, then you shouldn't--at least not at this point. Maybe you could do some or more shadowing/volunteering to gain more insight.
 
Med school and dental school are 2 different things. Graduating from Med school will give one a lot more options than dental school. Now I dont know what people you know of that graduated from med school that cannot find a residency bc THERE IS NOT A US MEDICAL GRAD THAT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIND A RESIDENCY. The only time I could see that happenin is if one went to med school in the carribean. REsidents work 80hrs/week period! Neurology will run about 4 yrs after med school. Hope that helps.
ECU MED 07
I beg to differ with you. It's very possible to graduate from a US medical school and not get a residency! If an attending asks a medical student to give him a b--- j-- and the student refuses, the attending can blacklist that student, and no residency program in the country will so much as acknowledge the student's application--I've seen similar situations happen more than once! And don't talk to me about sexual harassment policy--most of the time it's the student's word against a senior faculty member. At most med schools, an attending would have to shoot the Pope in front of at least five witnesses to get so much as a slap on the wrist!
 
I beg to differ with you. It's very possible to graduate from a US medical school and not get a residency! If an attending asks a medical student to give him a b--- j-- and the student refuses, the attending can blacklist that student, and no residency program in the country will so much as acknowledge the student's application--I've seen similar situations happen more than once! And don't talk to me about sexual harassment policy--most of the time it's the student's word against a senior faculty member. At most med schools, an attending would have to shoot the Pope in front of at least five witnesses to get so much as a slap on the wrist!

First of all.... jesus could you salvage an older thread...

Second...Riiiiiight I am sure this happens a lot. At least at my school, there is such a knee-jerk reaction when someone so much as whispers the word sexual harrassment that this could and would never happen.

Very, very few US allo grads dont get placed. For example, in the almost 200 years my school has been around, we have never had someone not placed after the scramble.
 
First of all.... jesus could you salvage an older thread...

Second...Riiiiiight I am sure this happens a lot. At least at my school, there is such a knee-jerk reaction when someone so much as whispers the word sexual harrassment that this could and would never happen.

Very, very few US allo grads dont get placed. For example, in the almost 200 years my school has been around, we have never had someone not placed after the scramble.

Agree here.

The stats bear out that US MD grads have match rate into the mid-90% after scrambling. Short of experiencing infamy ala OJ Simpson, there is no way a person can be blacklisted from ALL residency programs in the country. And why would a med school go out of their way to make sure a qualified student DON'T match? It reflects very badly on them.
 
And I would doubt that a single attending would have that much power, even if they wanted to.
 
Hi all...I am a dentist and I can say that I still (after 4 years of practice as an Army dentist) still enjoy what I do - and I work for the Army, LOL!!! In high school and throughout my undergrad I wanted to be a physician, did LOTS of hours in hospitals, did reasearch, etc, etc. I was pretty disillusioned by what I heard though. LOTS of physicians were not happy with medicine, and it had a lot to do with insurance and how some lame brain, non medical person, could make medical decisions, therefore over riding the doc's medical opinion for the bottom line.

Then I went to dinner with a friend whose dad was a dentist for over 20 years, and get this, he still LOVED what he did. He wasn't on call (except for the occasional time when his patients would get hurt), he only worked 4 days a week, and he only took a few insurances so he did not have to answer to an insurance person on why he put this or that into a treatment plan. I volunteered for a dentist, and then decided to go for dental school and here I am today.

Are there days that I hate what I do? Heck yeah, I am human and any person that says that they LOVE their job every single minute, IMHO, is lying. When I have this person sitting there, with very few teeth, and the ones they do have are rotting out of their head and they ask me about bleaching, I want to rip my eyes out, but it happens. Dentistry is very physically demanding. My work is work. It doesnt happen by me thinking about it, I have to do it. Does that make sense? If you want to sit around chatting and thinking about what the best thing to do or course of treatment is, dentistry is not for you. You will work hard. It is stressful. Patients can be demanding (and I am one of the lucky ones, my patients are actually incredibly grateful for the service I provide them...I have just as much admiration for them and the job that they do). I love helping a person smile again, and watching them say "wow, I have a wedding and now I can smile in my pictures."

You do not have to do a residency to make good money, but you can. I went to work for the Army (for almost 4 years now) and now will get out, with very little debt (who can live on the stipened they give you anyways) and am applying to pediatric dental residency. Yes, the ones I am applying to have tuition (about $30,000/year) but still I will graduate and make in the $200,000 bracket...not too bad to be doing something I love.

Basically, if you like to work with your hands, dentistry is for you. If you hate the mouth and spit, choose something else. Currently my husband wants to go to med school. There is absolutely nothing I could do to change his mind. He thinks mouths are NASTY. There are good and bads about both.

You just need to look at it and pick what is right for you. To ME, I wanted to enjoy my life, and be there to watch my children grow up (I am so not knocking MD's or DO's...dh wants to be one). This is just me and why I choose dentistry.
 
DDS/DMD VS MD/DO = apples vs oranges.

I have done plenty of shadowing with my sister (DDS) for about 9 months, I was really enjoying it and I decided to be pre-dental

One day, I called up our family doctor (Internal medicine) and asked if I can shadow him for 1 day per week...... After the 2nd visit I switched to pre-med and haven't looked back..... Does this tell you anything?

Alright, Medicine is 4 years into med school and the shortest residency is (I think) 3 years (something like internal medicine), that adds up to about 7 years. You'll need to be an attending physician for ATLEAST 1-3more years to start making more money than a resident (I think they make 100k... not sure), THEN when you save up enough dough... you can open your own practice.

Dentistry on the other hand.... Im not too sure about residency, but the dentists I talked to all graduated after 4 years of dent schools and did NOT need to do any sort of residency... they worked for private practices for a few years then they open thier own offices (example, my sister opened her office 2 years after she graduated)

So Dentistry is "shorter", makes a pretty good living (similar to internal medicine / family practice / peds / etc), and don't work more than 40 hrs per week... but in my opinion, the job isn't as interesting as an MD

Doctors on the other hand... total opposite, longer time, they still make a hell of a living, but they work WAYY more than 40 hrs per week (even after they finish residency), and (my opinion of course) have a more interesting job..

So you have to search deep down starting right now about where you want to go.....
 
Alright, Medicine is 4 years into med school and the shortest residency is (I think) 3 years (something like internal medicine), that adds up to about 7 years. You'll need to be an attending physician for ATLEAST 1-3more years to start making more money than a resident (I think they make 100k... not sure), THEN when you save up enough dough... you can open your own practice.

If you start practicing as an attending right after residency (e.g. after a 3-year Internal Medicine residency), your salary will immediately go from something like $45k to $90-150k, depending on location, of course.
 
I have shadowed both DDSs and MDs. I have heard from the MDs that they wouldn't have their children go into it. I have heard from dentists that they have bad backs. I have heard from MDs that it is rewarding but stressful. I have heard the same from dentists. One thing dentists generally win out in is schedule and lifestyle because many MDs , even when they specialize have to spend a day in the hospital as well and many are on call. I don't think anyone can debate this fact. Maybe dermatologists have as good of a schedule from what I have heard, but not many others.

While they are different, they are also similar. Both have the same classes the first 2 years. For both you have to know what different drugs do (ie interactions, patients with high blood pressure, allergies, anti-clotting drugs etc) and how to handle patients with compromised health. There is a lot of overlap, but they are also different. If you like manual work, dentistry or surgery may be better for you. There is a LOT of manual work even in your first semester of dental school. Or you can decide to try for the best of both worlds... Oral Surgery (DDS/MD) or a lighter route which I find attractive would be the GPR where you do medical and dental rotations in internal medicine, emergency medicine, anesthesiology, endoscopy with an opportunity to do additional rotations. You can gain a LOT of medical knowledge from these.

In addition, if research attracts you, oral cancer is a huge issue in dentistry, as is the new thought that chronic low grade inflammation in the mouth can cause hardening of the arteries, spreading infections and a whole slew of other conditions never thought to be linked before.

Good luck in your decision. I used to think medicine would be cool and it still interests me, but I figured out long ago that dentistry was the better field for the kind of life I wanted... one with patients, research AND family!
 
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I believe that both medical and dental schools are tough to get into and both professions can be rewarding. However, each do have their pros and cons. One of the cons of dentistry that most of you have forgotten are:

Dentists are in a high risk of infectious diseases like Hepatitis and even AIDS. Wearing masks and gloves all day everyday to protect themselves is a daily routine. And same for surgery.
 
I beg to differ with you. It's very possible to graduate from a US medical school and not get a residency! If an attending asks a medical student to give him a b--- j-- and the student refuses, the attending can blacklist that student, and no residency program in the country will so much as acknowledge the student's application--I've seen similar situations happen more than once! And don't talk to me about sexual harassment policy--most of the time it's the student's word against a senior faculty member. At most med schools, an attending would have to shoot the Pope in front of at least five witnesses to get so much as a slap on the wrist!


My dude, this is America. Of course, things like that can happen, but still I don't think any med student would be refused residency because they refused to do something they didnt want to do, especially in this case here.
 
Edit - M&%%F#@**^ didn't see how old it was.
 
I graduated with a BS in biochemistry in Fall 2005 and I am currently working as a research lab technician for half a year. I am in a dilemma right now because I am having second thoughts on if I really should do medicine. I've seen people graduated medical school but cannot get into a residency program and work as a lab tech with crappy pay. I've heard from my gf (a nurse) that interns and residents work close a 100 hrs a week. I've seen doctors working just for money and having no passion towards medicine (or patients). I've heard doctors saying they wouldn't want to do medicine if they have the chance to pick again. I don't know if it is worth it to devote so many years of life to become one of these people. I seriously do have a passion towards medicine and helping people, but I also want a life and have a family with decent pay. On the other hand, dentists seem to enjoy life more than doctors but make about the same, if not more, than what doctors make. Dentists also help people and also have a lot less pressure dealing with patients. Dentists seem to come out and make money sooner since their residency is only 1 year and I need to come out to help support my family because I am not from a wealthy family and I don't want to see my dad working in a job that gives him bad leg and back which he always complains about. PLEASE GIVE ME SOME INPUT!


Because you heard "some" doctors say they were unhappy with their profession doesn't mean being a dentist is a better choice. If you heard dentists complain about how they wished they would've pursued an MD, then you'd be here arguing in favor of the doctors. Also, since the length of time is shorter in dentistry, you feel it's a good option. You my friend are a business/finance/economics kind of guy - not a health practicioner. Medicine/Dentistry fields require those individuals who aspire to be either/or...based on their passion.

If your girlfriend trains at the rate of 100hrs/week, then she will be sued in the future for gross negligence. She'll burn herself out eventually...then the quality of health care diminishes...but that's another story.
 
It seems people thinking about this issue need to gain more experience in medicine and/or dental in order to make a confident decision.
I don't think it is passion these people are lacking, it could just be fear and anxiety about making the biggest decision you've ever had to make in your life. It's scary to think you will work really hard just to possibly end up in a specialty you do not want and in tons of debt. It's natural to wonder if you'd be "happier" in another profession, doing something similar, but wondering if it would be as interesting and satisfying. I myself have been struggling with the same issue. If you have the passion and drive and interest in medicine to get this far, but wonder how effective you will be at helping people (your ultimate goal) if you can't handle the lifestyle and become unhappy.

I just don't think you can write that off as lack of passion.
 
You're probably right Tulane07.
 
Hey guys,

any input would be extremely helpful =)

I'm a pre-med senior at a top tier US college right now, and I'm applying to medical schools with a 3.12 GPA (3.0 BCMP) and a 31P MCAT.

needless to say, so far I haven't gotten any interviews =(

I got a job as a medical receptionist for a famous doctor in NYC for the next year or two. My original plan was to work this job for the first year, and then do a SMP the second year to boost my GPA and retake the MCAT. But after viewing this thread... I'm seriously considering dental school instead.

I think i would be equally happy in both careers. My concerns are:

- assuming I can get a decent DAT score, will my GPA be too low to get into Dental school?
- I only have premed related clinical experiences. Will dental schools frown upon that? Should I start shadowing Dentists?

Thanks for your help!
 
katie - unfortunately, a lot of the posters in this forum (as well as myself,) have experience with the pre-MD/DO side of things. There's not many predents to help you here. You can wait to see if anyone replies, and in the meantime, take a look at the pre-dent forums that are further down the main page. Like anything, I would suggest getting more experience in the prespective field (here dentristry) before making a decision. Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
Hey guys,

any input would be extremely helpful =)

I'm a pre-med senior at a top tier US college right now, and I'm applying to medical schools with a 3.12 GPA (3.0 BCMP) and a 31P MCAT.

needless to say, so far I haven't gotten any interviews =(

I got a job as a medical receptionist for a famous doctor in NYC for the next year or two. My original plan was to work this job for the first year, and then do a SMP the second year to boost my GPA and retake the MCAT. But after viewing this thread... I'm seriously considering dental school instead.

I think i would be equally happy in both careers. My concerns are:

- assuming I can get a decent DAT score, will my GPA be too low to get into Dental school?
- I only have premed related clinical experiences. Will dental schools frown upon that? Should I start shadowing Dentists?

Thanks for your help!

Well there are a lot of factors when trying to get into a dental school. Currently, getting into dental school is becoming extremely difficult. It is not uncommon for kids with 3.5+ GPAs to be re-applying 2 or even 3 times. The main problem right now is that there are rediculous applicant numbers being seen at most dental school, and so many students are qualified. Dental schools are routinely seeing anywhere from 2,000 up to 7,000 applicants for classes of 50 to 140 seats. This presents a problem for most students who have even amazing stats.

You must get as much volunteer/community service, research, dental shadowing as possible in your application to suppliment your GPA. You have to almost go over the top to be competetive in dental now. Unfortunately there is just this wave of applicants that has been increasing exponentially ever since the early 2000s.

To hit another point about dentistry. My father has been in solo private practice now for 25 years and loves his job. He has never worked more than 4 days a week (35 hours a week), and enjoys the freedom of his practice. It's really a booming profession right now, and it is projected to grow in demand. Dental school is very difficult not only didactically as well as clinically, but there are certainly stresses that are absent usually found in other med specialties (insurance, work hours).
 
it's funny, all the doc's around me are so jaded by the insurance problems, they tell me go dentistry.

My good friend from post bacc is in dental school now. his dad owns a practice, and basically when he's done dental school, he's handed a $500k practice and works 3 days a week.

you can specialize as a dentist as well. your rotations are with surgery students.
 
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