Medical schools with least lecture time

[Dr. Bob Doe]

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Which medical schools have the least amount of classroom lecture time? Which have the most? I am a self-directed learner and I can't really focus too long in mandatory 3 hour lectures 5 days a week. I learn better and quicker on my own with hooks and online notes and PowerPoint and out of classroom activities. Is attending lectures in medical school a requirement? I am looking at med schools in NY like Cornell, stony brook, Sinai, Einstein and the SUNY's

 

[EMDO2018]

LECOM-B

 

[SunsFun]

The schools that don't focus on lectures are often the ones that require a lot of CBL. I don't think as a self-directed learner you will like it any more than lectures.

What you should be asking is if the lecture attendance is mandatory and/or if the lectures are recorded.

 

[Dr. Bob Doe]

The schools that don't focus on lectures are often the ones that require a lot of CBL. I don't think as a self-directed learner you will like it any more than lectures.

What you should be asking is if the lecture attendance is mandatory and/or if the lectures are recorded.

"Is attending lectures in medical school a requirement? I am looking at med schools in NY like Cornell, stony brook, Sinai, Einstein and the SUNY's"

 

[Dr. Bob Doe]

Where can I find this information is it listed on the schools website or should I call up each school I'm interested in

 

[Oso]

Where can I find this information is it listed on the schools website or should I call up each school I'm interested in

msar (sometimes), school website (most of the time), INTERVIEWS

 

[pDeluxe]

i know its not in NY (or anywhere close to there for that matter), but iirc, UCLA has ~2 hours of lecture per day and theyre not mandatory, which is the lowest among any med school (according to the tour guide)

 

[WaterIsGood]

Hofstra.

 

[Dr. Bob Doe]

i know its not in NY (or anywhere close to there for that matter), but iirc, UCLA has ~2 hours of lecture per day and theyre not mandatory, which is the lowest among any med school (according to the tour guide)

I've also heard this looks like I'm going to UCLA

 

[Chipster.]

I've also heard this looks like I'm going to UCLA

🤣

 

[Oso]

I've also heard this looks like I'm going to UCLA

 

[Pose]

I think BU is under 2hrs per day, and optional. Same with University of Kentucky.

 

[Dr. Bob Doe]

View attachment 178216

So I've heard

 

[Dr. Bob Doe]

🤣

 

[sinombre]

For what it's worth, I think schools lie when they tell you how many lecture hours per week they have. I remember being told we would have around 10 hours of lecture per week (on top of all of the other doctoring/clinical skills/pbl/anatomy stuff). I'm guessing we average closer to 15-17 hours of lecture each week. Fortunately they're all podcasted.

 

[JBOB]

UCSF-UCB joint medical program basically has no lectures, all PBL.

 

[darklabel]

I believe Yale has a very self directed approach (or one of the Ivy's).

But most schools will have a mixture of required and non-required classes. I'm more worried about going to a true P/F school based on what I've heard from my friends. Even heard how one guy went on vacation before a test on his first year thanks to P/F.

 

[sbEMT33]

Hofstra.

 

[BillrothI]

But most schools will have a mixture of required and non-required classes. I'm more worried about going to a true P/F school based on what I've heard from my friends. Even heard how one guy went on vacation before a test on his first year thanks to P/F.

I'm a little bit confused about how the match works with respect to the different grading systems.

For example, take two students attending two top notch medical schools. One attends a school that uses H/HP/P/F grading and the other goes to a school that is on the P/F system. Both are great students, but they will have completely different transcripts.

Is there any advantage to going to one school over the other? It seems like the grading system should be universal, but clearly that's not the case.

-Bill

 

[darklabel]

I'm a little bit confused about how the match works with respect to the different grading systems.

For example, take two students attending two top notch medical schools. One attends a school that uses H/HP/P/F grading and the other goes to a school that is on the P/F system. Both are great students, but they will have completely different transcripts.

Is there any advantage to going to one school over the other? It seems like the grading system should be universal, but clearly that's not the case.

-Bill

I believe 3rd year is weighed more heavily (at least at his school). For instance, they don't even give AOA until the end of 3rd year.

As for grades vs. P/F for the match, I can't answer that. Though I have read that board scores matter more than pre-clinical grades. Hopefully med student or resident can confirm.

 

[tantacles]

I believe 3rd year is weighed more heavily (at least at his school). For instance, they don't even give AOA until the end of 3rd year.

As for grades vs. P/F for the match, I can't answer that. Though I have read that board scores matter more than pre-clinical grades. Hopefully med student or resident can confirm.

Board Scores/3rd year grades > Everything else.

 

[BillrothI]

Though I have read that board scores matter more than pre-clinical grades. Hopefully med student or resident can confirm.

Yes - board scores absolutely matter more than pre-clinical grades. I'm just wondering how program directors might compare someone from a top tier school with a 260 and a slew of "Passes" to someone from a different top tier school and all "Honors." Does it not even matter in the slightest? If not, then I would think that there would be a big psychological advantage to attending a P/F school (less stress and a more collaborative environment).

Not a terribly important question for most of us. Just kind of curious.

-Bill

 

[tantacles]

Yes - board scores absolutely matter more than pre-clinical grades. I'm just wondering how program directors might compare someone from a top tier school with a 260 and a slew of "Passes" to someone from a different top tier school and all "Honors." Does it not even matter in the slightest? If not, then I would think that there would be a big psychological advantage to attending a P/F school (less stress and a more collaborative environment).

Not a terribly important question for most of us. Just kind of curious.

-Bill

They'd use the interview in that case. Most program directors look at year 1/2 grades minimally, if at all.

 

[Dr. Bob Doe]

For what it's worth, I think schools lie when they tell you how many lecture hours per week they have. I remember being told we would have around 10 hours of lecture per week (on top of all of the other doctoring/clinical skills/pbl/anatomy stuff). I'm guessing we average closer to 15-17 hours of lecture each week. Fortunately they're all podcasted.

Do most schools have lectures that archived/digitized?

 

[Ismet]

Yes - board scores absolutely matter more than pre-clinical grades. I'm just wondering how program directors might compare someone from a top tier school with a 260 and a slew of "Passes" to someone from a different top tier school and all "Honors." Does it not even matter in the slightest? If not, then I would think that there would be a big psychological advantage to attending a P/F school (less stress and a more collaborative environment).

Not a terribly important question for most of us. Just kind of curious.

-Bill

That's really a non-issue. Program directors know what the school's grading system is. Obviously someone who goes to a P/F school has no chance at getting pre-clinical honors because it doesn't exist. Their pre-clinical can't be adequately compared to a school with H/P/F unless the class rank is reported. The difference between the two applicants in your hypothetical would be decided on many other factors, including research, ECs, recommendations, performance in clerkships, and interviews. Not their pre-clinical performance.

Many p/f schools also have an internal ranking system, and our dean's letter will state our general ranking (aka "top 10%" or something similar, not the actual number we are).

 

[mcloaf]

Many p/f schools also have an internal ranking system, and our dean's letter will state our general ranking (aka "top 10%" or something similar, not the actual number we are).

IMO that sort of defeats the purpose.

 

[sinombre]

Do most schools have lectures that archived/digitized?

Yep, as far as I know (at least according to my friends at different schools/what I've seen on SDN). The podcasts are basically video recordings of the slides with audio. They're usually posted the day the lectures are given by 4 or 5 pm.

 

[Ismet]

IMO that sort of defeats the purpose.

Not really. Pre-clinical grades/ranking still matter very little.

 

[mcloaf]

Not really. Pre-clinical grades/ranking still matter very little.

I guess. Insofar as the point of P/F is to lower stress and decrease competition, I'd expect that to be undermined by being ranked against your classmates. I'm not arguing that that either is hugely important (or that chill students can't pretty much ignore these things), but I don't see why ranked P/F is so much different than just having grades. It seems like a sneaky way for administrators to please people by drawing a lot of attention to P/F while keeping the underlying competitive aspect intact.

 

[SunsFun]

IMO Ideally all four years should be unranked P/F with steps, lors, and research playing the largest role for every school.

 

[Ismet]

I guess. Insofar as the point of P/F is to lower stress and decrease competition, I'd expect that to be undermined by being ranked against your classmates. I'm not arguing that that either is hugely important (or that chill students can't pretty much ignore these things), but I don't see why ranked P/F is so much different than just having grades. It seems like a sneaky way for administrators to please people by drawing a lot of attention to P/F while keeping the underlying competitive aspect intact.

I get what you're saying, but I really don't think it makes a difference. No one in my class talks about the internal ranking thing. I'd actually venture to say that some people probably don't even know about it. The class above us had H/P/F and while they were still very collaborative, there were definitely people in the class who did nothing but try for honors. My class is very relaxed, and the class below us is even more laid back in terms of grades. For the most part, people want to do their best, but it's also a very low stress environment and the P=MD phrase gets tossed around during difficult blocks. 🙂 And from my understanding, your place in the class in your dean's letter is always reported in a somewhat positive light. If you're in the bottom of the class from pre-clinical years, the letter won't say "______ was in the bottom 10% of the class."

 

[repititionition]

Many p/f schools also have an internal ranking system, and our dean's letter will state our general ranking (aka "top 10%" or something similar, not the actual number we are).

During my interview day at Pitt we were told that the school is -unranked- P/F.

This is an important deciding factor for me - thanks for any clarity you can provide.

 

[MilkIsGood]

You got it backwards. You actually want the school with the most lecture time so you can stay home and listen at 1.5x. Less lecture time usually means more tbl/pbl time which is usually mandatory at all schools.

 

[Dr. Bob Doe]

You got it backwards. You actually want the school with the most lecture time so you can stay home and listen at 1.5x. Less lecture time usually means more tbl/pbl time which is usually mandatory at all schools.

I see your point, I knew there would be a catch. If that's the case I'd rather have more optional lecture time to decrease the amount of mandatory labs, pbl and tbl.


As long as they don't kick me out for not attending often or take away financial aid, right.

 

[NickNaylor]

I get what you're saying, but I really don't think it makes a difference. No one in my class talks about the internal ranking thing. I'd actually venture to say that some people probably don't even know about it. The class above us had H/P/F and while they were still very collaborative, there were definitely people in the class who did nothing but try for honors. My class is very relaxed, and the class below us is even more laid back in terms of grades. For the most part, people want to do their best, but it's also a very low stress environment and the P=MD phrase gets tossed around during difficult blocks. 🙂 And from my understanding, your place in the class in your dean's letter is always reported in a somewhat positive light. If you're in the bottom of the class from pre-clinical years, the letter won't say "______ was in the bottom 10% of the class."

This is true, however the terminology is well-known amongst program directors. There are a relatively small number of schools, each of which uses what is likely a very similar letter from year to year. Even though negative terms may not be used, programs look for qualifiers to get this information out. Certain words are used to designate quintiles/quarters/whatever without actually disclosing that information directly.

No school is going to write you a bad dean's letter because that would shoot themselves in the foot - the worst thing a school could do is have unsuccessful students. But at the same time, there's certain information that programs are looking for, and they're familiar with the ways schools provide that information.

 

[username456789]

No one in my class talks about the internal ranking thing. I'd actually venture to say that some people probably don't even know about it.

Judging by SDN posters (who tend to be more informed than most), it appears that an exceedingly small percentage of even the "most informed" students at these schools have no clue (and are blindsided when they learn about the Dean's Letter/MSPE).

Also, it varies from person to person, but having Honors at my medical school made me bust my tail to learn everything possible. It was stressful, sure, but I also ended up with a larger fund of knowledge that has stuck with me several years beyond all of those preclinical years. It paid dividends on things like shelf examinations (where a lot of concepts rolled over from the preclinical years, and made shelf studying much less stressful), Step 2CK, a little bit of Step 3, and most definitely a lot of the Derm practice boards (which can be super heavy on the basic science stuff most other specialties never go back to).

 

[Chipster.]

I see your point, I knew there would be a catch. If that's the case I'd rather have more optional lecture time to decrease the amount of mandatory labs, pbl and tbl.


As long as they don't kick me out for not attending often or take away financial aid, right.

🤣