Medical students future career/lifestyle/family pole

[VVSHT]

option #1

You are a world renowned physician in a very competitive field that you love, and do extremely well financially (7 figures), but takes a lot of time. You are divorced and your kids dont really like you and want nothing to do with you. You are basically reduced to dating gold diggers who don't really care about you.

option #2

You are an average doc in a non - competitive field, but you have a very loving family, and you spend a lot of time with them. While you are not a big shot, you still do okay financially. lets say you and the wife earn 200k each in psych/fm/im etc. So your net household income is still pretty good, but you are not in super prestigious field.


Which would you guys choose. Obviously, you can find a medium between the two. Professional success and a good family DONT have to be mutually exclusive for some people, but that is not the point of this thread. If you HAD TO PICK ONE, which would you choose.

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[peteB]

option #1

You are a world renowned physician in a very competitive field that you love, and do extremely well financially (7 figures), but takes a lot of time. You are divorced and your kids dont really like you and want nothing to do with you. You are basically reduced to dating gold diggers who don't really care about you.

option #2

You are an average doc in a non - competitive field, but you have a very loving family, and you spend a lot of time with them. While you are not a big shot, you still do okay financially. lets say you and the wife earn 200k each in psych/fm/im etc. So your net household income is still pretty good, but you are not in super prestigious field.


Which would you guys choose. Obviously, you can find a medium between the two. Professional success and a good family DONT have to be mutually exclusive for some people, but that is not the point of this thread. If you HAD TO PICK ONE, which would you choose.

is this a serious question?


obviously 1... who cares about family? its all about money and hot babes...

 

[zoner]

what if you don't really want a family but have a group of friends that you love... is that considered has good personal life or horrible personal life to you? personally i hate kids and can't see myself permanently attached to anyone,,, and i don't really care about the 7 figure salary as long as it is above 6 figure salary somewhere but i do want to be in a competitive field that i love and being renowned can be cool...

come on this is silly

 

[VVSHT]

what if you don't really want a family but have a group of friends that you love... is that considered has good personal life or horrible personal life to you? personally i hate kids and can't see myself permanently attached to anyone

I would personally consider this a "horrible" personal life from my perspective, since I am really big on family. However, i don't think its takes nearly as much time and effort to maintain great relationships with friends as it does with families, so I guess you can be option #1 and still have good friends. So i assume you would choose 1 then

 

[zoner]

I would personally consider this a "horrible" personal life from my perspective, since I am really big on family. However, i don't think its takes nearly as much time and effort to maintain great relationships with friends as it does with families, so I guess you can be option #1 and still have good friends. S
o i assume you would choose 1 then

ok, then i guess number 1,,, but again, this is silly since i am choosing to have "horrible" personal life because that's how i like it.

 

[peteB]

option #1

You are a world renowned physician in a very competitive field that you love, and do extremely well financially (7 figures), but takes a lot of time. You are divorced and your kids dont really like you and want nothing to do with you. You are basically reduced to dating gold diggers who don't really care about you.

clarification on option 1: when you got divorced did you have a prenup? or did the b*** take all the money?

 

[zoner]

clarification on option 1: when you got divorced did you have a prenup? or did the b*** take all the money?

lol

 

[VVSHT]

clarification on option 1: when you got divorced did you have a prenup? or did the b*** take all the money?

Well if she hates you, then she would probably try to get as much money as she could. Pre nups only help if you had a bunch of assets BEFORE marrying her. They are more applicable for "old money". All the income you make during marriage is considered 50/50. Since you would be making 7 figures, you probably have to pay alimony too along with child support.

 

[peteB]

Well if she hates you, then she would probably try to get as much money as she could. Pre nups only help if you had a bunch of assets BEFORE marrying her. They are more applicable for "old money". All the income you make during marriage is considered 50/50. Since you would be making 7 figures, you probably have to pay alimony too along with child support.

Is there no way to write a prenup that says she can't make claims to any of your personal income after you get divorced?

 

[VVSHT]

Is there no way to write a prenup that says she can't make claims to any of your personal income after you get divorced?

No. as far as I know, any income you get from "working" while married is considered "community property". If you have a lot of capital gains/passive income from previous properties/investments, then that is your own money.

 

[peteB]

No. as far as I know, any income you get from "working" while married is considered "community property". If you have a lot of capital gains/passive income from previous properties/investments, then that is your own money.

Are debts considered community property too? What if you got married before you took out your student loans. Does your ex-wife have to take on half of the debt when you get divorced?

 

[Wordead]

Way to present the scenario in the most biased way possible.

Would you rather be a DO, with +100 charisma, respect, and a hot bod, or a MD missing 3 appendages?

 

[peteB]

Way to present the scenario in the most biased way possible.

Would you rather be a DO, with +100 charisma, respect, and a hot bod, or a MD missing 3 appendages?

MD any day. Ever seen a tv show with a D.O.? It was House, M.D. for a reason...

 

[VVSHT]

Way to present the scenario in the most biased way possible.

Would you rather be a DO, with +100 charisma, respect, and a hot bod, or a MD missing 3 appendages?

lmao how did this turn into a do vs md thing. not all md make 7 figures. not all do are fm.

However, I agree that the post might come off a bit biased. Perhaps I should emphasize the positives of option #1. You have way more prestige and respect among your peers. You are not tied down to a wife, so you can play the field and date a lot more younger attractive women if thats what you want. You also have more freedom to move around and travel as you are not concerned about kids' schools etc.

 

[peteB]

lmao how did this turn into a do vs md thing. not all md make 7 figures. not all do are fm.

However, I agree that the post might come off a bit biased. Perhaps I should emphasize the positives of option #1. You have way more prestige and respect among your peers. You are not tied down to a wife, so you can play the field and date a lot more younger attractive women if thats what you want. You also have more freedom to move around and travel as you are not concerned about kids' schools etc.

What kind of doctor are we talking about here? Who makes 7 figures?

 

[VVSHT]

What kind of doctor are we talking about here? Who makes 7 figures?

Im sure the "world renowned" type of people in pretty much all fields excluding primary care are making 7 figures. Take a look at salaries of directors/chiefs/big shots of the elite academic programs. The bring in a lot of cases, research funding etc to the program so they are paid a lot. They also might have patents that bring in royalties.

 

[cnfz]

No matter what you've done for yourself or for humanity, if you can't look back on having given love and attention to your own family, what have you really accomplished?
- Elbert Hubbard

 

[Rendar5]

I don't know any doctors bringing in a 7 figure salary, honestly. maybe the top 1% of doctors do.

 

[peteB]

No matter what you've done for yourself or for humanity, if you can't look back on having given love and attention to your own family, what have you really accomplished?
- Elbert Hubbard

One could argue that doing something that helps all of humanity, including your own family, far into the future (like discovering a new cure) is a much more valuable accomplishment than anything you do just for a few people comprising your family.

 

[CassieBagley]

nothing

 

[KnuxNole]

I don't know any doctors bringing in a 7 figure salary, honestly. maybe the top 1% of doctors do.

I agree. They aren't super rich people, like some of the general public thinks. Doctors are in that 99% crap the hipsters shout out

 

[CassieBagley]

nothing

 

[ijn]

Orthopedic spinal surgeons and neurosurgeons are the only 2 that have an an average that can range in the 7 figure salary. Outliers in all fields can occur, esp. with private practice, but are much less common. For example, run a specialty pain clinic and do trials for pharmaceutical companies...make bank.

There are other fields that routinely reach that income range - ex. retinal surgeons, pure LASIK guys, and divorced interventional cardiologists.

 

[TexasApp2013]

I can only speak about Texas public med schools, as the salaries of Texas government employees are published online, but there are a number of professors/chairmen making 7 figure salaries, particularly at UTSW.

They're all surgery guys (ortho, cardiothoracic, plastics) but it was very surprising to me to see salaries that high, particularly in academic medicine, but really that high for anyone in medicine.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Not taking a poll where the OP can't even spell poll right

 

[mimelim]

Not taking a poll where the OP can't even spell poll right

What he said.

 

[VVSHT]

Not taking a poll where the OP can't even spell poll right

lol my bad. it wont let me edit the title

 

[VVSHT]

I don't know any doctors bringing in a 7 figure salary, honestly. maybe the top 1% of doctors do.

ofcourse. im talking about the top "world renowned" doctors. An average physician in any specialty will struggle to reach 7 figures. Many big name public universities have to publish the faculty salaries. If you look at the big shots at places like ucla, ucsf, ut a lot of them are pulling 7 figures. The liver transplant surgeon who founded the progam at ucla makes 1.6 mil.

 

[487806]

Not taking a poll where the OP can't even spell poll right

I believe OP used pole instead of poll for a reason... no pun intended?

 

[J ROD]

I prefer lifestyle over money.

 

[ToldYouSo]

 

[zoner]

One could argue that doing something that helps all of humanity, including your own family, far into the future (like discovering a new cure) is a much more valuable accomplishment than anything you do just for a few people comprising your family.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

 

[Frank Nutter]

Oh noes.....How does one survive on a meager $400k combined household income, AND carry on with the embarrassment of working as a lowly "average physician"?

Surely no family or friends could make up for such overwhelming hardship.

 

[peteB]

Oh noes.....How does one survive on a meager $400k combined household income, AND carry on with the embarrassment of working as a lowly "average physician"?

Surely no family or friends could make up for such overwhelming hardship.

It's all relative. If your earning capacity is a billion, $400k is basically poverty... Millions of people in the world only make a dollar a day, so to them, even $20k a year would be 'rich'.

 

[cnfz]

One could argue that doing something that helps all of humanity, including your own family, far into the future (like discovering a new cure) is a much more valuable accomplishment than anything you do just for a few people comprising your family.

True, but then that is just looking at the numbers. It depends on who you feel you owe more to, the few who you personally know and care about or the many who you will never meet and have a personally connection with. I'm not sure how many people lying on their death beds wished that they had worked more and found a new cure (maybe for their own disease).

 

[peteB]

True, but then that is just looking at the numbers. It depends on who you feel you owe more to, the few who you personally know and care about or the many who you will never meet and have a personally connection with. I'm not sure how many people lying on their death beds wished that they had worked more and found a new cure (maybe for their own disease).

These aren't just numbers. I'm talking about real human beings here. You may not personally know them, but their lives matter just as much as anyone you do know. Do you think your patients are just numbers? It's not really an issue of owing anything to anyone. It's more an issue of the impact you can have on the world.

I think it would be awesome to lie on your deathbed and think about how you've left something to the world that will outlast you and save countless lives far into the future (possibly the lives of your own family and friends too). Very few people ever get to do that. I think I would regret it, if I didn't at least try.

 

[notbobtrustme]

What kind of doctor are we talking about here? Who makes 7 figures?

If you want to work 80-100 hours a week, you can pull high 6 figures to 7 figures in almost any field.

 

[peteB]

If you want to work 80-100 hours a week, you can pull high 6 figures to 7 figures in almost any field.

Even family practice?

 

[thepoopologist]

Lifestyle over money any day of the week.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Even family practice?

probably not, but maybe if you were one of a couple physicians for a small rural town and did a bunch of procedures, maybe....

 

[punkedoutriffs]

These aren't just numbers. I'm talking about real human beings here. You may not personally know them, but their lives matter just as much as anyone you do know. Do you think your patients are just numbers? It's not really an issue of owing anything to anyone. It's more an issue of the impact you can have on the world.

I think it would be awesome to lie on your deathbed and think about how you've left something to the world that will outlast you and save countless lives far into the future (possibly the lives of your own family and friends too). Very few people ever get to do that. I think I would regret it, if I didn't at least try.

Do you really think it would be that cool? Of course none of us have actually experienced it, since we're all young, but to me, it would be more of an abstraction, a passing thought before I die that might make me feel fuzzy for a second. What is that compared to a full life with a family, with domestic bliss: deep intimacy with a wife, loving and being loved by your kids...

I would equate the first "example" to growing up either as an orphan or with parents that never parented. I don't care how much money you give me or how much I'm lauded by a bunch of strangers. I would never trade in growing up with my loving parents and sister.

 

[KnuxNole]

Agreed. For me, friends and family and spouses/kids will be what I remember on my deathbed. I'll think of my job, but that is minimal compared to things that actually matter.

 

[tiedyeddog]

rofl

 

[tiedyeddog]

Incredibly biased "pole". I would be more than happy sacrificing some family time for my career. I wouldn't knock a person for choosing family time, however.

 

[D P356]

I would guess that the majority of people who say they would choose #1 are not married and are likely in their very early 20s. Things change when you get married; you figure out that it isn't just about you anymore.

 

[CuttingCorneas]

is this a serious question?


obviously 1... who cares about family? its all about money and hot babes...

Chicks, money, power, and chicks, brah

 

[Guero]

Now if only we could extrapolate the results of this "pole," namely the 10% that chose #1, with AOA membership...

 

[Planes2Doc]

Everything changed for me the moment I started MS-1. I no longer had any time to see my family, friends, and girlfriend anymore. At this point, all of the expensive toys I enjoy no longer brought me any pleasure. There was just misery.

Now I understand why people I know who went into investment banking were so miserable.

So option #2 it is.

 

[JGimpel]

The type of 'pole' would be very important, as I don't want anyone in my family being forced to dance on one because my meager doctor's salary can't cover our subsistence type of living. Any US medical graduate in any field can make about $250K per year. It may take a few more years in one field versus another, but it's entirely possible. I've worked with plenty of IM, FP and Pediatrics doctors making around that much by having a good business sense and respecting themselves and the hard work they've done and won't stand for being low-balled by any 3rd party payor. Anyways, n=20 for me; know that an average salary is calculated by highs and lows, and you can decide whether you're going to be in the group of the former vs. the latter at any time.

 

[Guero]

The type of 'pole' would be very important, as I don't want anyone in my family being forced to dance on one because my meager doctor's salary can't cover our subsistence type of living. Any US medical graduate in any field can make about $250K per year. It may take a few more years in one field versus another, but it's entirely possible. I've worked with plenty of IM, FP and Pediatrics doctors making around that much by having a good business sense and respecting themselves and the hard work they've done and won't stand for being low-balled by any 3rd party payor. Anyways, n=20 for me; know that an average salary is calculated by highs and lows, and you can decide whether you're going to be in the group of the former vs. the latter at any time.

Great post. IM/FM is not nearly as doomed as people tend to think, especially with the ensuing reform. Honestly, I'd be more nervous about reimbursement if I chose a ROADS speciality. That said, I honestly might end up in either group. But I'm not worried. The impetus behind my motivation is simply being a physician, be it family practice or neurosx: Whatever pleases me will make going to work far more enjoyable than sitting at a desk programming or washing dishes, you know?