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Yes, if you think 200k (after paying off debt) is a regular salary...
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Medicine for the Money?
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Not sure; I was told this by an asset manager.
And your 1st paragraph responded to me saying that residencies are cakewalks, when I said "med school and residency is a timesink"
Your 2nd paragraph was about building a practice; not something every doctor does.
Where was I wrong in saying that your comments are mostly from your perspective?
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Why do you ask questions when you know so much already from psychiatrists and dermatologists?
Tbh, the best discussion I ever had on money and medicine was with a practicing physician one on one in real life.
His comments are based on 10 years of experiences whereas yours are based on premed speculation. That's what he's trying to point out.
Most primary care doctors near my parents earn less than that before taxes and once you add in debt payments, I think take home is less than 100k a year, my parents are in Boston. A Boston police officer makes about that much before taxes and does not need 8 years of expensive education, Boston's finest also get a pension, health insurance, and other benefits, if you go up in the ranks you earn even more money.
Also I said doctors live an upper middle class lifestyle.
Look at my words:
"Medicine is a huge field. One viewpoint doesn't constitute the whole market."
I suppose I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. The cynic in me feels like your heart isn't really in it and you're looking for reasons to drop the idea and go do something else.
I can't really think of any other reason for this thread. You asked for reasons why you personally should avoid medicine, and have then spent the entire thread shooting down every valid reason presented.
That's why primary care should really be left up to foreign graduates, who have little to no debt.
So he is in Finance, that is "Wall Street" if you ask me, Wall Street firms have offices all over the place. My friend in college got to live in London, Tokyo, Singapore, and New York. I think he is currently in Los Angeles.
It's a poor appeal to ethos though. There are doctors with 20 years or 30 years of experience that will disagree with what he said; because they're more experienced, does that mean he's wrong? No it does not.
If I was commenting on what it's like to be a doctor, then i'd be completely out of line.
I thought I may find good arguments against medicine, but this thread has kind of just reaffirmed my decision to seriously pursue medicine. (i.e. keep my gpa as high as possible, work my ass of with mcat prep, and hope i'm accepted).
I think you should listen to what everyone else has told you and find a different career. You said medicine was not a top choice yourself. I agree with what has been said above about this thread being pretty pointless as it seems you are just looking for someone to agree with you.
Are there? In my experience, there aren't many, if any, that would disagree with him. I'm not sure who you've been talking to, but it doesn't really sound like you have much experience with physicians. From your other thread, it doesn't sound like you have any shadowing or clinical experience, and it doesn't sound like you exactly grew up in an environment surrounded by physicians.
You don't know as much as you think you know.
Maybe; The lifestyle is crazy though lol.. I'm a country boy, I would hate every minute of it.
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@writing If 250k+ debt is worth a 250k salary and the prime of your life then go for it...
You're ignoring the fact that to even get into these big salary specialties you have to be very competitive in medical school as well..
Heck you might not even match
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf
You're ignoring the fact that to even get into these big salary specialties you have to be very competitive in medical school as well..
Heck you might not even match
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf
What is it that I think I know? That different people have different experiences? That the challenge an attending has trying to start (or join a practice) does not apply to every doctor? I simply want him to address my points, saying "I'm a doctor" is not enough. As there are doctors that will agree and disagree with him.
It's way too early to even think about specialties. Market conditions continue change and so does the state of medicine. My main goal is getting in. Maybe once I'm in I'll start to think about it.
Well there you go, if you want to live in the country and still make a good living, you don't have that many career options.
I also just found an explanation for prevalence of religious and conservative beliefs among physicians compared to other advance degree holders in the sciences.
He's trying to provide you with information that you don't have, based on extensive long-term experience in the exact thing you're asking about.
You're dismissing it because it doesn't fit what you already decided was true based on a combination of TV, movies, imagination, and some stuff you read on the internet.
I don't mind an hour commute to the city. I'd probably do a 2 hour commute if I had to.. Plenty of people in my hometown commuted an hour, to an hour and half to the city.
And you don't think the demand for doctors could change?
Nurse Practitioners/Physician Assistants are becoming really common... just saying
I will never understand commutes that long. That is way, way too much of my life devoted to something completely useless and unproductive. Commutes are literally a waste of time, and no house or job is worth 3-4 hours of my day every day doing nothing.
Well I drive fast.. lol
I made an 80 mile trip in 45 minutes before
some people can't afford to live close by. No one commutes for the fun of it lmao.
If you haven't had the opportunity to see different specialties in residency, what grounds do you have to doubt someone that does have insight into it?
Ok tell me more. Do all Doctors (or even a majority) face the same issues he described?? Namely building a practice, establish a patient base, 60+ hours?
This speeding thing might actually become the new SDN meme ....
Rather than simply say I should know better than to question a Doctor, wouldn't it be better to look at exactly what I'm saying? See whether that has merit or is just B.S.?
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Assuming you only a sleep 4 hours a day, a 2 hour commute with be 10% of your waking life spent in a car...
Keep in mind when looking at those stats that most physicians are IM or FP who don't make much money, especially if they live in a desirable place. Check out the salaries of PCPs in urban areas sometime.
He's talking about the more lucrative specialties; surgery in particular, which is what he does. So, yeah, most doctors making a lot of money face the same issues he described. Med school is brutal, residency is brutal, fellowships are brutal, and life as an attending making really good money in a desirable location is pretty brutal (though at that point it's not as brutal as it has been the previous 7-10 years).
If you want to make $150k a year and live in a city, then 4 years of med school followed by 4 years of IM residency is not the best way to do it. If you want to make $350k a year, then you can go try to be an orthopod or vascular surgeon, but 1) your chances of making it aren't good, and 2) your life will be relatively brutal.
Yeah, I sleep about 4-5 hours.. Sometimes 3, I'm cool with that.
Well, always a need for doctors in rural areas right? lol
Honestly though, I don't buy into those statistics.. I'd be traveling to work, and then going home to an environment I want to be in.
I need wide open spaces, and mountains, etc..
Agreed with part 1.
Most orthopods make far more than 350k. Ditto w/ other subspecialized surgeons. Agree that lifestyle sucks though.
I agreed with that. My original words were: "Your comments about lifestyle have more to do with your specialty choice (surgery) than medicine itself." and "medschool and residency are a timesink" It seems I got attack for doing the unthinkable; disagreeing with a doctor.
Personally, I've grown up in a suburban area and have never lived in a major city. A job in Henderson or a rural area, wouldn't particularly phase me. I like to shoot, hunt, and could probably get on with those folks.
Where did I say residency was easy or had low hours? Regardless I'd be hesistant to take advice from video. Things vary by specialty and quality of program. Dermatologist in a good residency is incomparable to a neurosurgeon in a mid table residency.
Meh, they had to film that for so long to make it an interesting watch.
I think this one is more representative:
Albeit, the ER at my hospital could not get any more boring.
You know, you really should not go into medicine if you only want to be a dermatologist.
Unless you are already a top student at a top school.
Great, now I'm gonna spend my night watching it lol..
Compensation has more to do with your specialty choice than medicine itself. The average GP in a city makes, what, less than a third of the salary of your average orthopedic surgeon?
Set your sights on going to a quality undergraduate engineering school known for having its graduates go into lucrative private industry jobs. MIT, RPI, Harvey Mudd, Caltech, CU.
"Going into derm cause I'm greedy"..
*side-note* Holy crap are there a lot of satirical videos about medical school on YouTube!!! It's crazy
I was just looking up videos about what med school is like...
Trust me I'm not planning on dermatology. Unless my step scores are in the 99th percentile and I cure skin cancer, I don't think it's something to plan on or even view as high possibility. My main point was that things vary a lot and a vascular surgeon's views are no doubt shaped by his specialty.
Seems I made the mistake of disagreeing with a physician.
Oh I seen those..
"i saved 3 babies during this song" LOL
The mistake you made was asking a question, and then being extremely dismissive when the very people who are best qualified to answer your question show up and answer your question in a way you didn't want.
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Trust me I'm not planning on dermatology. Unless my step scores are in the 99th percentile and I cure skin cancer, I don't think it's something to plan on or even view as high possibility. My main point was that things vary a lot and a vascular surgeon's views are no doubt shaped by his specialty.
Seems I made the mistake of disagreeing with a physician.
Here's another:
Trust me I'm not planning on dermatology. Unless my step scores are in the 99th percentile and I cure skin cancer, I don't think it's something to plan on or even view as high possibility. My main point was that things vary a lot and a vascular surgeon's views are no doubt shaped by his specialty.
Seems I made the mistake of disagreeing with a physician.
Yes, logic, reasoning, experience, multitude of other friends in other specialties vs. pre-med experience. Must be that vascular surgery bias!
Any questioning or disagreement is being "extremely dismissive"? Even when I post polls? I'll learn my place. Sit down, shut up, and don't question doctors.
I love numbers and surveys. I'd love to see an in-depth study that compared different professions and asked the similar questions about hours worked, salary, and willingness to choose the same career. I think physicians (excluding certain specialties) would probably come out on top or near the top.
You described the challenges involved in building a patient base and starting/joining a practice. Does that apply to a majority of doctors? Do you think an EM resident, family medicine doc would've given the same response or focused on similar subjects?
I'm always willing to reevaluate my views, eat words, and say I was wrong.
I can give you figures for dentistry, and they are much better in terms of career satisfaction as well as hours worked, even hourly pay in many cases 😀
