Meeting for lunch does not mean lunch

[Bouldering]

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I met with a HPSP recruiter "for lunch" today, and when he met me, he showed me to a nearby table (we met at my school) and proceeded to spend the whole time talking/filling out paperwork. Now I have lab in 10 minutes and didn't have time to go to the cafeteria to eat lunch, which I would have packed had I known that "meeting for lunch" really meant "meeting during/instead of eating lunch." Oh well. Live and learn. Now on to the mass of non-overlapping paperwork between the various services....

Any important questions to ask recruiters? I've been a ghost around the military medicine forums for awhile but was wondering if there are any tricks to working with recruiters, if they would actually take you out for lunch, and if there are any other benefits to being someone that they want to recruit (aka, freebies)?

 

[175961]

I met with a HPSP recruiter "for lunch" today, and when he met me, he showed me to a nearby table (we met at my school) and proceeded to spend the whole time talking/filling out paperwork. Now I have lab in 10 minutes and didn't have time to go to the cafeteria to eat lunch, which I would have packed had I known that "meeting for lunch" really meant "meeting during/instead of eating lunch." Oh well. Live and learn. Now on to the mass of non-overlapping paperwork between the various services....

Any important questions to ask recruiters? I've been a ghost around the military medicine forums for awhile but was wondering if there are any tricks to working with recruiters, if they would actually take you out for lunch, and if there are any other benefits to being someone that they want to recruit (aka, freebies)?

Did you expect the recruiter to just shoot the breeze with you and talk about sports, the weather, and girls? And now you're here asking how to milk a recruiter for freebies.....what a stellar applicant you will be🙄

 

[Bouldering]

Did you expect the recruiter to just shoot the breeze with you and talk about sports, the weather, and girls? And now you're here asking how to milk a recruiter for freebies.....what a stellar applicant you will be🙄

Normally when someone says they will be meeting you for lunch, it typically involves a lunch. At least that's been the case in my experience...

As to the other things, I came ready with a list of questions and was expecting to talk HPSP the whole time. As to the "freebies," one Navy recruiter passed out a piece of paper describing trips to visit naval hospitals (including to MD, FL, and CA), but even seemed to decrease as a possibility when talking to him since he said they would likely only do the MD trip, and even that would be limited in availability.

I will admit that if you focused on the last part of the last sentence I wrote, you could have gotten a bad impression of my intentions, but thanks for judging based on that 🙂

On a serious note, does anyone have any tips on working with recruiters or questions one should ask? I feel as though I've gotten a decent knowledge of the HPSP program, and am decently familiar with some of the potential problems (thanks to the huge numbers of jaded current or ex-military doctors here), so I'm unsure if there are other considerations to examine beyond what you can read about here...

 

[pgg]

There's no point in asking recruiters questions because they
a) won't know the answer, and respond with blank stares, OR
b) won't know the answer, but pretend they do, and make something up, OR
c) won't know the answer, but think they do, and give you wrong information

Ask your questions here or to actual active duty physicians you meet in person.

 

[GeoLeoX]

A recruiter is generally only helpful for getting the paperwork completed. Any other concerns you may have about your future should be directed to people who have first-hand knowledge. You will learn a lot more in this forum than you could possibly learn from a recruiter.

 

[Bouldering]

A recruiter is generally only helpful for getting the paperwork completed. Any other concerns you may have about your future should be directed to people who have first-hand knowledge. You will learn a lot more in this forum than you could possibly learn from a recruiter.

Hence why one of the 1st questions I asked was whether I could tour a military hospital/clinic...

It's also the reason why as soon as I have these applications done/under control, I'll be posting a list of unanswered questions (or ones for which I'd like to have recent data/answers/perceptions). It'll probably be a few weeks, but thanks to all in advance...

 

[GeoLeoX]

On a serious note, does anyone have any tips on working with recruiters or questions one should ask?

You specifically asked what questions you could ask a recruiter. I am telling you that there really isn't much substantial information that a recruiter can provide you beyond where to sign your name on the contract.

 

[DrMetal]

Normally when someone says they will be meeting you for lunch, it typically involves a lunch. At least that's been the case in my experience...
.

Then you're rather inexperienced. Are you seriously upset about this? If so, then you have a lot of maturing to do. Would advise taking a break in b/w college and med school . . .take a job somewhere, you'll see how the 'real world' works. That experience will help you a lot in your future career as a physician.

Echo the above statements about recruiters. Take whatever service you're interested in, make contact with some of the AD docs, talk to handful of them (perhaps you should take them out to lunch!), get some pro/con opinions, read up here. Then, if you still have specific questions that haven't been previously addressed (and I can almost guarantee you they have been addressed here, just gotta search hard enough) . . . then go ahead and post here. If it's truly a unique question/situation that you have, you're more likely to get good feedback.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Every single person in the service has either been lied to by their recruiter or sung a cadence about someone who has. Yours just got an early start. 👍

 

[Gastrapathy]

Then you're rather inexperienced. Are you seriously upset about this? If so, then you have a lot of maturing to do. Would advise taking a break in b/w college and med school . . .take a job somewhere, you'll see how the 'real world' works. That experience will help you a lot in your future career as a physician.

Echo the above statements about recruiters. Take whatever service you're interested in, make contact with some of the AD docs, talk to handful of them (perhaps you should take them out to lunch!), get some pro/con opinions, read up here. Then, if you still have specific questions that haven't been previously addressed (and I can almost guarantee you they have been addressed here, just gotta search hard enough) . . . then go ahead and post here. If it's truly a unique question/situation that you have, you're more likely to get good feedback.

Thats not really fair. If a physician recruiter outside the military asked to meet you for lunch, you can bet she would pick up the tab for a nice meal and a tasty beverage. I can see why he would have expected that.

 

[tman]

Thats not really fair. If a physician recruiter outside the military asked to meet you for lunch, you can bet she would pick up the tab for a nice meal and a tasty beverage. I can see why he would have expected that.

Agreed...not a huge deal, but hell recruiters have budgets for that kinda thing, not exactly a great way to do business when you're trying to persuade someone to commit several years of their life over to Uncle Sam. Overall, not a big deal, just kinda cheesy...I woulda been a little bent outta shape too.

 

[notdeadyet]

Then you're rather inexperienced. Are you seriously upset about this? If so, then you have a lot of maturing to do. Would advise taking a break in b/w college and med school . . .take a job somewhere, you'll see how the 'real world' works. That experience will help you a lot in your future career as a physician.

Gimme a break. If you've been out in the 'real world' for any length of time, you'll know that if a recruiter, headhunter, potential employer, etc. offers to meet you for lunch, they're picking up the tab.

 

[faith2]

I had lunch with my recruiter, and he picked up the tab. He explained to me that since we are officer recruits we go out to lunch, and the free lunch that they give for the enlisted does not apply to us. During the lunch I used that time to ask more questions about joining the Army.

 

[Bouldering]

I'm glad to know that most people thought my assumption was more or less reasonable and that I wasn't too out of line for thinking/expecting what I was. Again, not a huge deal, and I'm continuing the application process with the same guy, but I just wanted to see if my experience was odd...

I'll be back on this thread in a few days-weeks with more specific questions. Thanks all...

 

[DrMetal]

Gimme a break. If you've been out in the 'real world' for any length of time, you'll know that if a recruiter, headhunter, potential employer, etc. offers to meet you for lunch, they're picking up the tab.

Oh for the love of . . . .Look, if somebody wanted to buy me a meal, great, I'd be more than accepting. And yes, in the more business/headhunter world, that's standard practice. But is this something that you'd really complain about, so pissed that you'd log on here and complain about it?

I think not, after all the trials and tribulations you've been through in life (and I do mean you in particular NDY, b/c I think you're older) . . . missing one lunch shouldn't peev you that much.

But okay, I take back my last post. I agree, free lunches for all. Let's convince the program directors of america to do the same for medical students, I'm totally on board.

 

[i want out]

Agreed...not a huge deal, but hell recruiters have budgets for that kinda thing, not exactly a great way to do business when you're trying to persuade someone to commit several years of their life over to Uncle Sam. Overall, not a big deal, just kinda cheesy...I woulda been a little bent outta shape too.

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and agree with you, that if a recruiter invited you to a 'working lunch' that both should be included work filling out paperwork, and lunch provided by recruiter...

That having been said, if you even noticed this, and remembered it enough to post on this board a few hours later that you didn't have time to get lunch and make it to class, your going to HATE the military.

To be a good military officer your going to have to be the person that waits until everyone junior to you eats first, then if there is enough food left you have a hot meal.
If your not the person that takes care of your team first, and then works on making yourself happy, your just going to be another member of the self licking ice cream cone that pisses everybody on this board off.

Your going to find lots more things that are much more substantial than a $10 meal and loss of a few minutes to be angry about on active duty.

I know you don't believe me because I am one of the jaded military doctors that you mentioned. So go ahead and see for yourself.

good luck
i want out (of IRR)

 

[ArmyBelle]

I just want to say that I had an AMAZING recruiter and I consider him to be part of my family now! He was great! And his replacement has been stellar as well! However my medical school is in a region where the recruiter sucks... It's just the luck of the draw. If you're not pleased with your current recruiter, find another one. You're fair game for the recruiter in your home district and your possible med school districts. Shop like you'd shop for anything else!
Yes, you are entitled to a free trip to a hospital. My recruiters typically fly people to Texas and they do their physical and tour the hospital. Maybe after you finish the paperwork your recruiter will send you. Remember until you sign your CONTRACT you don't owe the Army anything AND they're still woo-ing you. make them work for it! I had like 4 meals and a trip and two fancy commissioning ceremonies... and I could call my recruiter 24/7, and i did... But you're going to remember that person for the REST OF YOUR LIFE! Make it a good experience. Be upfront and honest about your expectations!

And free lunches are part of being a broke medical student! I can't believe a med student would judge another med student about that... Ummm we're doctors... Pharm companies call them "grand rounds" and surgical equipment calls them "educational ops" but if you want my time and attention, you're buying me a meal! and a nice one at that! Plus I want a t-shirt and a couple of pens... Has anyone heard about the price of advertising in the healthcare INDUSTRY!?!?! but I'll bitch about big pharma later.

Yes, It's ok to be pissed that the dude shafted you out of lunch. Yes, It's ok to want better. No, you won't get fine dining 3X/day as an Army doc. No, you won't get to finish a decent meal at work at a CIVILIAN hospital either. Yes, Army doctors still get fancy meals from companies and corporations that want to sell them stuff... (I'd say 2-3x/week at that!)

You're selling yourself to "Uncle Sam". hahaha, you're Julia Roberts and he's Richard Gere. You're gonna LOVE being with him but make him pay for it, Ho-ooah!

 

[GeoLeoX]

IYes, Army doctors still get fancy meals from companies and corporations that want to sell them stuff... (I'd say 2-3x/week at that!)

um. no.

 

[ArmyBelle]

What hospital is in Oregon?

Are you at a medical center like MAMC or a small community hospital?

I'm just going to pick a random medical center and a random specialty. Let's say you were at a major facility like Ft.Bragg. You'd get a pretty nice lunch from SOMEONE 3-4 times a week. If you don't believe me then google it. Ft Bragg's website says, "Morning report, Noon Conference Lecture and Pre-Clinic Conference will be conducted in the clinic conference room and all are expected to attend."

I've learned to expect from my military and civilian rotations that anything that called a "conference" or "rounds" and/or happens at lunch or dinner time equals a free meal. And I've personally eaten multiple meals catered by pharm reps at military facilities.

Maybe your program director has some kind of bias/belief? Or maybe you're the mean program director who doesn't get his resident's and interns and sub-Is lunch?

You're getting/giving the shaft buddy.

 

[GeoLeoX]

What hospital is in Oregon?

Are you at a medical center like MAMC or a small community hospital?

I'm just going to pick a random medical center and a random specialty. Let's say you were at a major facility like Ft.Bragg. You'd get a pretty nice lunch from SOMEONE 3-4 times a week. If you don't believe me then google it. Ft Bragg's website says, "Morning report, Noon Conference Lecture and Pre-Clinic Conference will be conducted in the clinic conference room and all are expected to attend."

I've learned to expect from my military and civilian rotations that anything that called a "conference" or "rounds" and/or happens at lunch or dinner time equals a free meal. And I've personally eaten multiple meals catered by pharm reps at military facilities.

Maybe your program director has some kind of bias/belief? Or maybe you're the mean program director who doesn't get his resident's and interns and sub-Is lunch?

You're getting/giving the shaft buddy.

Slow down there, med stud. I trained for 4 years at WRAMC and was an attending there, too. For your information I am currently doing a civilian fellowship.

The DOD is very clear regarding the ethics of accepting gifts. Non-monetary gifts should be worth no more than $20/gift and no more than $50/yr. This includes meals. I have filled out the Ethics Memorandum on multiple occasions just so I can attend a meeting where I would be given a few meals. That paperwork then must be reviewed by JAG before the SM is allowed to go. That's assuming that there is no financial (or potential financial) relationship between the entities. Most of the "free meals" dried up at WRAMC years ago. And it's only a matter of time before the same thing happens everywhere else.

 

[DrMetal]

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and agree with you, that if a recruiter invited you to a 'working lunch' that both should be included work filling out paperwork, and lunch provided by recruiter...

That having been said, if you even noticed this, and remembered it enough to post on this board a few hours later that you didn't have time to get lunch and make it to class, your going to HATE the military.

Exactly, and for that matter stay away from medicine. Plenty of people in medicine will dick with you the same way.

Agree with Geo above too.

ArmyBelle, what in sam hell are you talking about?! Suggest you learn more about the Army, fast.

 

[deegs]

Most of the "free meals" dried up at WRAMC years ago.

They're still here. You just have to look harder. And they're not marked by pens and mousepads.....

mmm..... Ruth Chris.....

 

[notdeadyet]

Look, if somebody wanted to buy me a meal, great, I'd be more than accepting. And yes, in the more business/headhunter world, that's standard practice. But is this something that you'd really complain about, so pissed that you'd log on here and complain about it?

No, granted. And even in the business world, though I expect the other person to pick up the tab if they did the inviting or are making the pitch, I still bring my wallet.

The DOD is very clear regarding the ethics of accepting gifts. Non-monetary gifts should be worth no more than $20/gift and no more than $50/yr. This includes meals. I have filled out the Ethics Memorandum on multiple occasions just so I can attend a meeting where I would be given a few meals. That paperwork then must be reviewed by JAG before the SM is allowed to go.

Huh. Weird. The most free pharma food I ever saw was during my two months rotating at a MTF. Maybe it's from going to med school in an area where lots of med schools and affiliated hospitals are pharm-rep-free, but all the fine (free) food at the MTF was pretty surprising. And no one was writing any Ethics Memorandum's on it, that I could see...

 

[Gastrapathy]

What hospital is in Oregon?

Are you at a medical center like MAMC or a small community hospital?

I'm just going to pick a random medical center and a random specialty. Let's say you were at a major facility like Ft.Bragg. You'd get a pretty nice lunch from SOMEONE 3-4 times a week. If you don't believe me then google it. Ft Bragg's website says, "Morning report, Noon Conference Lecture and Pre-Clinic Conference will be conducted in the clinic conference room and all are expected to attend."

I've learned to expect from my military and civilian rotations that anything that called a "conference" or "rounds" and/or happens at lunch or dinner time equals a free meal. And I've personally eaten multiple meals catered by pharm reps at military facilities.

Maybe your program director has some kind of bias/belief? Or maybe you're the mean program director who doesn't get his resident's and interns and sub-Is lunch?

You're getting/giving the shaft buddy.

Sorry. If you chose medicine for a free pen and some potato salad, you're going to be disappointed. VA and DOD facilities have really clamped down on drug reps. You hardly see them anymore. Even device reps (who actually serve a useful purpose) are finding it a pain.

It's DOD-wide and...its a good thing. www.nofreelunch.org

 

[Apollyon]

But okay, I take back my last post. I agree, free lunches for all. Let's convince the program directors of america to do the same for medical students, I'm totally on board.

Are you a resident?

The PDs of America DO provide a free lunch to med students on interview day. You don't sound like you know that.

 

[ArmyBelle]

ArmyBelle, what in sam hell are you talking about?! Suggest you learn more about the Army, fast.

I was a civilian healthcare employee for the government for years before I began medical school. I've been an Army HPSP student for several years. I've completed multiple ADT tours and some NADTs. I was a military brat and now I'm a military widow. I've been to my share of Army hospitals...

Most of the "free meals" dried up at WRAMC years ago. And it's only a matter of time before the same thing happens everywhere else.

That's a more believable statement. say it isn't so! I LOVE the big pharma meals! smh. You're breaking my heart! I was doing my meal planning/ budgeting around those days!

Huh. Weird. The most free pharma food I ever saw was during my two months rotating at a MTF. Maybe it's from going to med school in an area where lots of med schools and affiliated hospitals are pharm-rep-free, but all the fine (free) food at the MTF was pretty surprising. And no one was writing any Ethics Memorandum's on it, that I could see...

I had the exact same experience! My med school signed some sort of pledge mid-way through my time here which says that students can't get anything! Now everyone has to declare their affiliations before they lecture and no one can bring anything frivolous... On "educational tours" the surgical reps will bring stuff to aid in "teaching" the new equipment but it has to be medical related.... AKA the free stuff has instructions on it. I have a very neat t-shirt from Medtronic on pacemakers. I also have a caffeine t-shirt from a lecture that had very little to do with caffeine... The pharm companies WILL make a way to make themselves memorable.

I'm not saying I got into this business for the niceties. But if I end up as a civilian with private malpractice insurance and my loans from college... I'll be surviving off of those niceties like the rest of the civilian crowd!

But if this wasn't such a highly contested issue in all sectors of healthcare, we wouldn't be discussing it here.

 

[IlDestriero]

But okay, I take back my last post. I agree, free lunches for all. Let's convince the program directors of america to do the same for medical students, I'm totally on board.

Everywhere I interviewed for residency, fellowship and faculty positions took me out to lunch AND dinner. Has this changed?
P.S. If they call it a lunch meeting and don't actually provide food or tell you to brown bag it, it's just a meeting. Your recruiter is off to a bad start.👎

 

[DrMetal]

Are you a resident?

The PDs of America DO provide a free lunch to med students on interview day. You don't sound like you know that.

No, medical student. This true in the military match too? Great, I'm all for free meals.

 

[GeoLeoX]

ok. a recruiter has a budget to spend on lunches. you didn't get a lunch when you could have. i got a free lunch from my recruiter back in the day. a crappy lunch, but a free one nonetheless.

the majority of "free meals" that i have seen are paid for out of the pocket of staff, such as the PD. it sounds like others have had different experiences and others have had the same experience as me. take it all with a grain of salt. the fact of the matter is that there is a greater likelihood of the meals going away than staying.