Mental Health OF Clinical Psych Grad Students?

[positivepsych]

When I was reading the Insider's Guide book to Clinical Psych graduate school admissions, I remember reading that they don't recommend writing about your experiences in therapy in your personal statement. I thought this was a strange suggestion, since I thought it would be kind of obvious not to do this.

But it actually got me thinking about an interesting issue: what happens in the scenario of a clinical psych grad student who suffers from mental health issues themselves such as depression (actually, this wouldn't suprise me in the least considering that admissions basically screens for Type-A personalities and throws them into a very stressful environment). Also, as a graduate student once told me, a lot of people's "research is me-search," meaning that a lot of people tend to research things that have hit home for them personally.

That being said, I wonder what happens in this case. If the student tries to seek out treatment at their university, are they going to be interacting with people that they later will have to interact with professionally in their practicum or clinical exposure for example? Also, I wonder if a student would philosophically feel that they would have a hard time helping other people if they can't help themselves first (e.g. related to the Confucian concept of circles of responsibility - one must first better themselves, then family, then neighborhood, then city, etc.).

Any thoughts, experiences, anecdotes?

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[RainbowTVP]

I think it is important to be mentally stable while doing counseling.

But... Many people will experience some bouts of instability throughout their lifetime and that shouldn't make them ineligible to practice. It can positively or negatively affect their ability to counsel, though and that needs to be worked through.

Most universities have therapists available that are NOT a part of the educational hierarchy, so seeking treatment should not be a problem.

Many clinical psych programs require their students to go through some type of psychotherapy/counseling as a part of their educational experience...

Tara P

 

[Flutterbyu]

During orientation week my school gave each of us a list of low-cost, "discount" therapists, those who offer lower fees for grad students, all across the city. We were and continue to be highly encouraged to get ourselves into therapy, even if there have been no issues in the past, graduate school is an experience that is very hard to process and deal with without an outlet.

 

[destinydell]

..

 

[Galia]

I remember reading that they don't recommend writing about your experiences in therapy in your personal statement. I thought this was a strange suggestion, since I thought it would be kind of obvious not to do this.

Why do you think it is a strange suggestion?

I do inderstand that devoting the whole application to describing one's experiences as a patient, when one is looking to be on the other side, would be strange. But what you have written below hints that the very fact of being in therapy (or mentioning things learnt about self while in therapy ) is a problem? As far as I can observe my friends in the field, some consider being in therapy professional obligation. They also very incouraged by their schools to do so, without any connection to experiencing personal problems or not. Also, if one looks at the analytical side of the spectrum, being in analysis is actually requirement for graduation. I am not trying to say analytical or even psychodynamic should be setting a standard. But it would be strange if any activity would be required by one part of the profession, while negatively looked upon by the other (however different those parts of the field are, they are still part of the same field).

With that said, I am encountering very strong 'attitudes' about therapy in a non representative sample of research people I came across recently, and curious whether those negative attitudes are a) typical b) translate into recommendation mentioned in the first paragraph, especially in regards to research oriented programs.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

1). All thearpy grad students should go to regular therapy. When that is not possible, you should free associate to yourself and reflect things back. Actually do this out loud. It's actually great practice for treating clients. Just make sure no one hears you, hehe.

2). Everyone has psychological difficulties. You can be a great therapist as long as you have a handle on your own issues. You should especially talk about this during therapy and how it affects your own issues.

3). I think it's a great idea to talk about your own therapy experiences. I did in my interviews and essays.

 

[positivepsych]

I remember reading that they don't recommend writing about your experiences in therapy in your personal statement. I thought this was a strange suggestion, since I thought it would be kind of obvious not to do this.

Why do you think it is a strange suggestion?

I do inderstand that devoting the whole application to describing one's experiences as a patient, when one is looking to be on the other side, would be strange. But what you have written below hints that the very fact of being in therapy (or mentioning things learnt about self while in therapy ) is a problem? As far as I can observe my friends in the field, some consider being in therapy professional obligation. They also very incouraged by their schools to do so, without any connection to experiencing personal problems or not. Also, if one looks at the analytical side of the spectrum, being in analysis is actually requirement for graduation. I am not trying to say analytical or even psychodynamic should be setting a standard. But it would be strange if any activity would be required by one part of the profession, while negatively looked upon by the other (however different those parts of the field are, they are still part of the same field).

With that said, I am encountering very strong 'attitudes' about therapy in a non representative sample of research people I came across recently, and curious whether those negative attitudes are a) typical b) translate into recommendation mentioned in the first paragraph, especially in regards to research oriented programs.

I said that because let's be honest here, an application is not supposed to be a utterly realistic portrayal of you as a human being. An application is supposed to present you in the best possible light, so most people just focus on their strengths and interests. That's not to say that you can't show a bit of humanity in your essays, but people tend to stay away from anything that's not positive and for good reason.

If an applicant wrote about being severely bipolar in an essay, I would be willing to bet that the adcom would have some hesitancy, just by virtue of the diathesis-stress model alone. Putting someone who has a serious condiiton and into a super-stressful environment is not likely to help that person. I don't think its neccessarily fair, but I'm just saying.

But you bring up a good point here. There is a negative stigma against seeking mental health care, and I think its quite unfortunate. No one looks down upon someone who has high cholesterol, though their lifestyle might have contributed to it, but if someone has depression, they're considered "crazy." It's hypocritical how we care much more about the physical than the psychological, and I'm not sure what can be done about it.

I do think all future licensed therapists should undergo some therapy themselves, though I'm not sure that it should be analysis or psychodynamic in nature. CBT is the gold-standard and I'm glad people are moving away from Freudian notions.

 

[klptvf]

These posts are interesting to me. Graduate students are interesting creatures, huh? Especially in a psychology program. Of course, we all know about the counseling/psychology/social work "debate", competition, if you will... either way, it is fierce at my state university.

I work at the university counseling clinic with LPCs, LCSWs, PHDs in psychology and then we have grad students in all of those programs. So everyone works together but then students are so biased and partial to THEIR prgoram..."counseling is better because...." and psychologists are better because ..." ---AHH!!!

Another way to show the difference at my school:
-the counseling graduate program first year-- students take
personal development courses, mandatory therapy, journal, and spend a lot of class time on personal disclosure, developing listening skills, etc.
-clinical psychology first year - students take assessment, social psych and hard core stats courses.
As a result, clinical psych students think counseling students have "less training" and counseling students think clin psych students are "cold and uncaring" --- and they are all in the helping profession! This is sad to me!

Some of the graduate psychology students that I work with are terribly competitive, snappy, and down right MEAN! Makes me wonder why some didnt pursue other areas.

Just wanted to share because this is an interesting topic.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

Ha ha, when I read the title of the thread, I thought, "...is non-existent." If the dissertation doesn't drive you to suicidal depression, panic disorder, and general insanity, then you're not human. Me -->

 

[positivepsych]

Ha ha, when I read the title of the thread, I thought, "...is non-existent." If the dissertation doesn't drive you to suicidal depression, panic disorder, and general insanity, then you're not human. Me -->

You have to write a dissertation for a PsyD? I thought it was more of a final project based on clinical work?

 

[positivepsych]

Also, I'm curious, what's more stressful/time-consuming/burnout-inducing:
a top university-affiliated PsyD program or a top clinical psych PhD?

Any personal experiences/annecodes from associates?

 

[vesper9]

You have to write a dissertation for a PsyD? I thought it was more of a final project based on clinical work?

no , i think it depends on the school but some kind of thesis/dissertation is almost always required...there's quite a bit of research in psyd programs too

also I think it's impossible to say what general program (psyd/phd) is more time-consuming/stressful...it depends on the school, your financial situation, your own personality/learning style, etc etc....

I think you need to go to a few open houses or visit some psyD programs, I was also timidly interested in this a few years back and had similar questions....going to visit several schools and talking to professors was the only way for me to really get a good sense of what the program is going to be like.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

You have to write a dissertation for a PsyD? I thought it was more of a final project based on clinical work?

A PsyD is more clinically focused than a PhD, but since it is a doctorate, you still have to know how to do research and so it does require a dissertation.

 

[Sanman]

The dissertation.final project depends on the program. Frankly, from what I understand it isn't all that different anyway. A lot of work anyway you cut it. Personally, I gotta complete a dissertation.

 

[docjohng]

As positivepsych said, your application should present your "ideal" self, and be true to your core nature. But grad school committees aren't looking for people to bare their soul -- it's not appropriate to do so in this environment.

Remember, grad school is a business, even for non-profit institutions. They're looking for "customers" who will pay to finish the program successfully, resulting in more recognition of their program putting out quality professionals. You're looking for a program that will provide you exactly what you're looking for to make you the kind of professional or researcher you want to be. Don't be naive in thinking anything else.

Your "sharing" your personal therapy experiences will not be a plus at this stage in the game. Save it for the group therapy class. Be professional and honest, but do take care about how much personal details you share in these applications. Think of it closer to a job application than an application into a warm and fuzzy society of like-minded others (because the latter doesn't exist).

-John

 

[SaraL124]

Many clinical psych programs require their students to go through some type of psychotherapy/counseling as a part of their educational experience...

Tara P

Really only psychodynamic programs require this of their students.

At my program (I am a first yr. PhD student who posted here frequently last yr during my app process), we were given a pamphlet containing information on how and where to seek confidential treatment from those psychologists who a) give student discounts and b) are not affiliated with the school, internships, or clinical practica in any way.

I do not think a potential advisor would look kindly on an essay chock-full of personal anecdotes about treatment received for a mental illness. I agree with whoever said above to remain professional at all times during your application and interview process. After your grades, scores, recommendation letters, and experiences pass muster, the professors are basically looking at you to see how well you'd fit in the lab and how likely you are to graduate on time. So, having some kind of severe diagnosis that is debilitating may bias them against you because it may cause you to not complete the program. Most Clinical PhD program waive tuition because the department pays it and often gives a living stipend as well. They are investing a lot in their students and want to choose the one they feel will function most productively.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Really only psychodynamic programs require this of their students.

At my program (I am a first yr. PhD student who posted here frequently last yr during my app process), we were given a pamphlet containing information on how and where to seek confidential treatment from those psychologists who a) give student discounts and b) are not affiliated with the school, internships, or clinical practica in any way.

Yeah the only type of therapy that downright mandates your own therapy is psychoanalysis. However, there are very few of these programs.

Regardless of your therapy orientation, everyone can benefit from therapy and they should undergo it. Most PhD/PsyD/MS programs do provide therapists in the community for students to go to (not affiliated in any way with the university nor is it a requirement) as stated above. Some even have alumni who will give therapy to current grad student for free.

 

[lazure]

I have mixed feelings about therapy being required for clinical psych grad students. The clinical program where I did my Master's had an on-site clinic where we saw many of counselling students from another school in the city that required therapy. For confidentiality reasons, they came to our clinic instead of their own. Those that were lucky enough to have grown up with stable relationships, good coping skills with no significant mental health issues etc., the therapy appeared to be a waste of time since it was a purely intellectual pursuit.

 

[SaraL124]

I have mixed feelings about therapy being required for clinical psych grad students. ....... Those that were lucky enough to have grown up with stable relationships, good coping skills with no significant mental health issues etc., the therapy appeared to be a waste of time since it was a purely intellectual pursuit.

yup! pretty much^^. I do not think therapy is for everyone and that everyone can benefit from it. For those that can use therapy to their advantage I think it's an invaluable resource, but I agree with the above wholeheartedly.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

The way I see it is, if you are going to be a therapist, you NEED to have the experience of being in therapy. Even if you don't need long-term work, you really should see what the experience of being a client is like.

Secondly, I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have absolutely no need for therapy. For one, we all have some emotional and psychic **** we need to clean up from time to time. And even if you don't have "issues" that you need to work on, therapy can be used as a growth experience to expand on a healthy self, too.

 

[lazure]

Secondly, I find it pretty hard to believe that someone could have absolutely no need for therapy.

Yes, there are such individuals. As therapists, we do not see a representative sample of society.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

Yes, there are such individuals. As therapists, we do not see a representative sample of society.

Maybe I should rephrase that. I think there are few people who would have absolutely no use for therapy at any time in their lives.

I'm not saying that as a therapist, either. I am drawing on my experiences with all the people I have ever known or met in my lifetime, the vast majority of which were not my clients.