Mention League of Legends in app/interview? (Serious)

[tiedyeddog]

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I've seen apps from professional poker players. Unlike video games, these are at least face-to-face interactions.

At my school, we like candidates who can physically deal with other people.

I assume you wouldn't know this but the type of game OP is talking about is often done in teams of people. When you go to tournaments you actually can sit with your team, side-by-side and more or less face the opposing team. Also, you have to deal with sponsors (which is likely how OP earned at least some of his money).

Again, I assume you are not knowledgeable about these things but that is how it is done at big tourneys where real money can be made.

Edit: Also, Goro's response is EXACTLY what I was talking about. See, poker is gambling but that is OK because his/her generation participated in poker growing up. Some people do get addicted to Poker and it can destroy their entire lives yet being a professional poker player does not get the same scrutiny that being a professional video gamer gets. It is just generational bias and the older generation not having participated in gaming as it is at present.

Looks like this at the games highest level but similar idea at lower levels:

 

[NickNaylor]

I assume you wouldn't know this but the type of game OP is talking about is often done in teams of people. When you go to tournaments you actually can sit with your team, side-by-side and more or less face the opposing team. Also, you have to deal with sponsors (which is likely how OP earned at least some of his money).

Again, I assume you are not knowledgeable about these things but that is how it is done at big tourneys where real money can be made.

Edit: Also, Goro's response is EXACTLY what I was talking about. See, poker is gambling but that is OK because his/her generation participated in poker growing up. Some people do get addicted to Poker and it can destroy their entire lives yet being a professional poker player does not get the same scrutiny that being a professional video gamer gets. It is just generational bias and the older generation not having participated in gaming as it is at present.

Looks like this at the games highest level but similar idea at lower levels:

Not to mention that at the very high levels many teams live together in team houses to practice and coordinate travel.

 

[Tri4thlete]

I've seen apps from professional poker players. Unlike video games, these are at least face-to-face interactions.

At my school, we like candidates who can physically deal with other people.

Just a quick preface, at the professional level in LoL (league of legends), there is actually a high level of interaction and communication required. After the games, you shake hands with your opponents and talk to them backstage after you have a team meeting with your coach. Hard to believe if you don't follow the LoL scene and proceed to make generalities (the classic video games == nerds, Doritos, Mountain Dew, and introversion), I can understand this though to a point. I personally think that golf is a pretty lazy sport, but I UNDERSTAND that some people really love the sport and I highly respect that. Some people just don't have respect for things you enjoy doing.

I am also a Diamond level League player (don't play as much now though) so I thought I would pitch my thought.

As a general rule of thumb, don't mention stuff like this to people. Just don't. Unless they specifically want to hear about it. This goes for several different topics that may be near and dear to your heart. I'm also an avid triathlete. Some people could really care less about how many intervals I run on the track and in what time, or how I swam 2 miles in the lake the other day. I can understand this as I would probably walk away from someone who tried to engage me in a conversation about golf.

The point is to put yourself in the shoes of other people. Don't say something to an adcom that they (probably) won't understand, because THEY WON'T CARE. Literally. They could care less if you were an LCS pro playing for Team SoloMid or Counter Logic Gaming. I could also care less if you were on the PGA tour for a year. Just doesn't interest me, and those things won't interest them.

TL;DR keep the league to yourself my friend

 

[tiedyeddog]

Not to mention that at the very high levels many teams live together in team houses to practice and coordinate travel.

Yup. Plus, many of these people have a live streaming presence that is usually sponsored by companies that expect them to present themselves in a professional manner. They have to deal with many, many people on a daily basis in a business sense.

 

[tiedyeddog]

From anecdotal experience from a good friend of mine, professional poker playing has a very similar negative stereotype. He had a ton of people bring it up negatively on the interview trail.

That's rather surprising to me, I would have guessed it would have gone over better but you never know.

I know quite a few people on the interview trail with me listed stuff like "wine tasting" and there was even someone who was a trained wine sommelier who all had great feedback on it.

 

[House D.O.]

I think you should only mention this when they say "what do you do on your free time?" And you already exhausted options like volunteer, exercise and stuff. Its something you do that you like and your good at so why not? BTW if ur overweight/out of shape don't mention this. Lol. Just my opinion

 

[Tri4thlete]

I think you should only mention this when they say "what do you do on your free time?" And you already exhausted options like volunteer, exercise and stuff. Its something you do that you like and your good at so why not? BTW if ur overweight/out of shape don't mention this. Lol. Just my opinion

I admire this, but still, no. People who don't play video games make the generalities that I mentioned above and refuse to believe anything else. Err on the side of caution and don't mention it.

 

[milk1993]

I've seen apps from professional poker players. Unlike video games, these are at least face-to-face interactions.

At my school, we like candidates who can physically deal with other people.

Face-to-face interactions between professional poker plays involves very little communication. Most professional players barely even acknowledge each other while playing. Communication on a competitive team with other players in a video game requires a much higher level of being able to deal with other people.

 

[Wakadaka]

i think what you guys who are saying don't do it are missing is how you can spin it. leadership, teamwork, responsibility, networking, professionalism, working with sponsors, etc. you have to be able to spin it appropriately, but that shouldn't be hard to do.

think about other new technology that old docs wouldn't get. if you made youtube videos of something (music, how to, etc.) and you had several 100k views then i would say definitely put it on an app. pitch your LOL as that, entertaining people, being a low level celebrity in your circle, being really good at something you do.

gaming could be the context, but the other skills and experiences are really what is important to explain

 

[mcloaf]

i think what you guys who are saying don't do it are missing is how you can spin it. leadership, teamwork, responsibility, networking, professionalism, working with sponsors, etc. you have to be able to spin it appropriately, but that shouldn't be hard to do.

think about other new technology that old docs wouldn't get. if you made youtube videos of something (music, how to, etc.) and you had several 100k views then i would say definitely put it on an app. pitch your LOL as that, entertaining people, being a low level celebrity in your circle, being really good at something you do.

gaming could be the context, but the other skills and experiences are really what is important to explain

Notice that the med students/residents/attendings are in near unanimous agreement that it should not be included. We're all well aware of how things can be spun during interviews. I still think it's a bad idea.

 

[Furan]

I intended to let this thread die as I already found my answer, but since there are curiosities and some genuine misconceptions I thought I'd clear some things up for the sake of informed debate.

I'm not on a professional team, but I do (on rare occasions) fill in for a couple games when certain players have delays getting a Visa. I get paid a small salary to remain "available," and a little extra when I get asked to play. I made the decision a long time ago that I didn't want to commit to the professional circuit full time because as a man with a family I didn't feel like the money was worth the constant travel and practice schedule (which are always done together, in person, in the same house).

Most of the income I generate is from streaming, which provides a threefold source of revenue: Subcriptions/donations to my stream, advertisements, and sponsors that pay me to stream while using their products to play. I make a small amount from amateur tournament prizes, but it's pretty insignificant and I usually only participate for fun.

I'm also an active commercial real estate investor, which is where the vast majority of my living comes from. League of Legends helps fill the income gaps between my investments coming to fruition (which can at times be 6 months or more with negative cash flow). It provides financial stability for my family.

It's a shame gaming is viewed so negatively. I thought the stereotype may be changing, given the millions of people that watch professional events, but that's clearly not the case. I'm also not out of shape or overweight, I exercise 5 days a week and recently completed a half-marathon. Personally I'm proud of what I've been able to accomplish, and it's disappointing that I have to be ashamed of probably the best display of my mental ability and business acumen.

I do, however, appreciate all the input everyone has provided. It's been genuinely helpful in this process.

 

[radiologyology]

Seeing the comparison to golf, I am both an avid golfer and a top 1% League player (high diamond). Although I never made it to the point of streaming or making money, I included golf on my app but not LoL. I doubt I'm in the top 5% of golfers in the world. TIFWIW. I just believe that professional gaming has too much of a connotation of a slacker to the older generation.

It seems like you have your mind made up anyways. I think you will have a strong enough app regardless of what you decided.

 

[jqueb29]

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous how bad of a rap older people still give video games. Everybody accepts people who watch movies, listen to music, and read books, but by god if you're 20+ and still play video games then you need to grow up.

 

[jqueb29]

Well here's the other thing. Do you honestly think that putting that you like to read books and watch movies on your application does it one iota of positive good?

The answer is of course it doesn't.

Neither will video games, and it opens up a whole other can of worms as has been outlined above. So the risk-averse solution if it is extremely unlikely to help but possible to hurt is to simply not mention it.

I'm not at all saying it's good to put on applications, I was just talking about in general.

 

[ortnakas]

Maybe happen to mention it if "what do you do for fun" comes up in your interview, but I wouldn't bring it up other than that.

I'm not a gamer, but I'm married to one, so I know it's possible to play League of Legends and be a functional, contributing, employed member of society. That said, most of the generation in admissions committees will hear that and picture their high schooler who plays video games in the basement instead of doing their homework. Maybe that's not fair, but it's not a mental image you want to give them, either.

Edit to add: I'm not judging the previous generation. We all may be in adcoms in a decade or two and be horrified by applicant activities that by then are perfectly normal.

 

[ftp902]

on a side note, does anyone play dota2?

 

[House D.O.]

Bet nobody here is going to beat me at NBA 2k15 tho

 

[Gandyy]

Ok, I have no idea why everyone is still arguing about this.

It is clear that ADCOMS will look down on your video game playing and the only thing it can do is hurt your application horrifically.

I"m sure some of you realize that, but having a discussion about how society is wrong about having a stigma towards video game playing isnt something thats really effective here.

Think about it. This is the Student Doctor Network. You come here for advice on your journey in the medical field whatever it may be.

Obviously you should take adcoms advice and not say a word about it at all and not include it in your app. They know more about the adcoms since..... well... they are adcoms lol.

On another note, I play league of legends and I do agree the social stigma is disgusting. (not bashing any adcoms, just talking about social stigma) Its not just adcoms, its literally society in general.
"Oh you play video games and you are 24? Are you a failure? Will you be doing anything with your life? Is there a possibility you will be productive in the future? Are you a real person?"

lol

props for making money off the game, but if you did it through "Elo Boosts" or whatever, then I would stop soon as they are cracking down on that sort of thing.

Anyways you came here for advice and you got it. Video games are a big no no. You have to understand it from their perspective, it also makes sense from their end.

I understand it from a gamer's perspective too though.. its a very tricky topic.

Edit: Honestly I'm just glad i found this website. I've gotten so much help here as I was studying for MCAT and help from adcoms/other med students/pre-meds.

No where else can you get help of this kind

 

[Straw Hat]

Personally I think it shows a level of dedication and commitment unrivaled by "real" sports, as I believe e-sports are much more mentally taxing in addition to the technical skill they require. It is certainly not easy to be one of the best in a competitive video game, and it is not all fun and games to reach that point.

That said, I would not mention it. It can only hurt based on the ages of the people looking at your application. If I ever become an adcom, I will definitely applaud professional gamers, though.

This thread ought to be dead by now since we know the general consensus to OPs question. However, I'm bored, just finished a test, and have nothing better to do than reply to this one line that bothers me 🙂

I agree that there shouldn't be a stigma over gaming / competitive gaming and that it's similar to playing anything else competitively. Unrivaled though?

It's disgusting how much time you can spend on competitive sports. My days were consumed by baseball and everything else was just time management on the side. But like I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with sports or competitive gaming especially if you're able to balance other aspects of life.

Mentally more taxing than competitive sports? No way imo. There's something more tangible and difficult about getting over a loss when you're sitting side by side with teammates (I understand some competitive games have teams and you go to tournaments together) who you've spent countless hours with during grueling practices. But conditioning until you puke your brains out and picking your teammates up and going even further. When you go in a slump or make an error that costs you and your teammates the game it's pretty darn emotionally taxing. Whereas video games... yeah it sucks you lost, you've invested quite a bit of time and maybe you're teammates are next to you and there's an emotional component but I just don't see it being equal let alone more intense than sports. Sports is a brotherhood. These people are usually with you for at least 4 years (high school or college) or if you've played travel ball with them earlier on then 6-10+ years. They're your best friends and they're your family. Letting down family is more difficult than letting down gamer friends imo.

I never became pro at gaming but I've spent probably too much time playing warcraft, starcraft, and first person shooters. Def never felt the same as sports.

Ok, that is all haha

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

O

They already have. Last years Call of Duty national championship was covered by ESPN. http://www.dailydot.com/esports/x-games-mlg-espn-call-of-duty/

Although, I do agree with general sentiment in here. I personally don't see a problem with it. Hell, I listed video games as a hobby in my residency application (and I got great feedback from that, believe it or not. I had a chair of a program tell me that there is crossover from that and manual dexterity in the OR. Im going into a surgical field so it makes sense.)

But, just because our generation doesn't have a problem with it doesn't mean previous generations don't. There are still much stigma associated with it. Another taboo thing that gets talked about a lot on here is supporting political orgs. You never know who is going to view your application. It may be the one faculty member in the entire school who has a bias against whatever activity you are trying to highlight. I would just try and stay as neutral as possible and maybe just mention video games, not go into deep detail about how successful you are in it.

If it comes up in an interview and the person interviewing you seems receptive to video games then explain more.

A neurosurgeon I shadowed said during residency his director told them to be actively playing video games to improve hand-eye coordination

 

[medic86]

This thread ought to be dead by now since we know the general consensus to OPs question. However, I'm bored, just finished a test, and have nothing better to do than reply to this one line that bothers me 🙂

I agree that there shouldn't be a stigma over gaming / competitive gaming and that it's similar to playing anything else competitively. Unrivaled though?

It's disgusting how much time you can spend on competitive sports. My days were consumed by baseball and everything else was just time management on the side. But like I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with sports or competitive gaming especially if you're able to balance other aspects of life.

Mentally more taxing than competitive sports? No way imo. There's something more tangible and difficult about getting over a loss when you're sitting side by side with teammates (I understand some competitive games have teams and you go to tournaments together) who you've spent countless hours with during grueling practices. But conditioning until you puke your brains out and picking your teammates up and going even further. When you go in a slump or make an error that costs you and your teammates the game it's pretty darn emotionally taxing. Whereas video games... yeah it sucks you lost, you've invested quite a bit of time and maybe you're teammates are next to you and there's an emotional component but I just don't see it being equal let alone more intense than sports. Sports is a brotherhood. These people are usually with you for at least 4 years (high school or college) or if you've played travel ball with them earlier on then 6-10+ years. They're your best friends and they're your family. Letting down family is more difficult than letting down gamer friends imo.

I never became pro at gaming but I've spent probably too much time playing warcraft, starcraft, and first person shooters. Def never felt the same as sports.

Ok, that is all haha

Eh, it's apples and oranges. (for the most part)

Since you've never gamed competitively, you don't understand. The skill cap on games like League of Legends and SC/SC2 are ridiculously high, and this is why it can be mentally taxing. The amount of practice it takes to actually play at that level is immense. (kind of like "real" sports)

Your statement is analogous to saying "yeah, I played high school basketball and it wasn't that hard. Getting to the NBA can't be that hard."

 

[Straw Hat]

Eh, it's apples and oranges. (for the most part)

Since you've never gamed competitively, you don't understand. The skill cap on games like League of Legends and SC/SC2 are ridiculously high, and this is why it can be mentally taxing. The amount of practice it takes to actually play at that level is immense. (kind of like "real" sports)

Your statement is analogous to saying "yeah, I played high school basketball and it wasn't that hard. Getting to the NBA can't be that hard."

What I was trying to say is that I get that it can be mentally taxing. And I don't doubt that the time and skill involved can be equivalent to physical sports but I don't think gaming is tremendously more emotional or mentally taxing than "real" sports which is what I took from the original comment I was replying to. Although I have seen and experienced how fun, rewarding, and even addictive gaming could be. So I guess to overly invest yourself in something like that could be pretty exhausting. But you could say that about a lot of activities when you compete and add rewards / the stakes are high.

Stakes are just as high for minor league athletes making peanuts living out of motels and buses with the possibility of high dollar contracts looming over their heads if they're able to perform when called up. Then one starts to wonder if those steroids all the big leaguers are doing are worth it. And usually the answer is if I don't do them, someone else will and they'll take my job. So show me where to stick the needle.

Honestly the only way I can see it being more emotionally and mentally taxing is because it can be more easily addictive imo. Gaming seems to me to be an instant gratification/ instant satisfaction deal. When you're essentially "high" and you go from that to losing it could be rough. If I'm making a fair comparison I guess I'd say sports in general is more of a long haul a less instant gratification for your hard work. I dunno. I'm just bored and trying to see things in two ways haha.