MGMA request

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Anybody have 2012 MGMA data on anesth./pain compensation ?
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Dumb question. Does MGMA reflect total pkg (including retirement, malpractice, etc) or just salary?
 
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Please look at Orthopedic Spine MGMA Data or Derm with MOHs surgery. Now tell me if you can't get uber rich practicing medicine provided you pick the right specialty.

Most private practice guys in these area are earning 75th-90th percentile if they are working hard.
 
These numbers have to be total compensation package and not just take home.
 
BLADEMDA said:
No they don't. It's W-2 income.
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I'm looking at the IM subspecialist numbers and there's no way the median heme onc guy is pulling 530k and the pulm/CC guy is pulling 400k. GI at 530k is possible though.
 
Wher is IM, family med, hospitalist on that survey?
 
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Wow. That's a lot of money.

Edit: the number of docs who responded in each category is....a tiny percentage of each specialty. How realistic are these numbers?
 
BLADEMDA said:
http://www.vmghealth.com/Downloads/PhysicianCompensationSurveyData.pdf

Sorry but the heme/oncology guys do very well. I know a few pulling in $600 W-2. Gi is well over $530 for private practice. If you aren't making $650 doing Gi you are part time or suck.

Pulmonary/CC is $400k W-2.
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"
"State the amount reported as direct compensation on a W2, 1099, or K1 (for partnerships) plus all voluntary salary reductions such as 401(k), 403(b), Section 125 Tax Savings Plan, and Medical Savings Plan. The amount reported should include salary, bonus and/or incentive payments, research stipends, honoraria, and distribution of profits.”

Some academic jobs have at least $100k worth of benefits built in for some faculty. So a $325k W2 anesthesia faculty position is grossly misleading at some institutions.

Most private gi docs I know make around $350-450k if they don't own their practices.

Over 1 million if they own their practices. But often times their office staff (most have staff 30-60 people) can easily put them in the red with office visits.

It's the procedures that rake in the money.
 
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There are some holes in the MGMA data that make it difficult to analyze. It would be helpful if MGMA also broke down compensation per hour. There are undoubtedly anesthesia group practices with docs working 35hours per week and twelve weeks vacation and practices with docs working 60 hours per week and six weeks vacation. With both practices being in the same MGMA percentile for income.
 
It doesn't bother me that other specialties make more than I do. It bothers me that people in my specialty make more than double what I make doing the same job at the same facility.
dr doze said:
There are some holes in the MGMA data that make it difficult to analyze. It would be helpful if MGMA also broke down compensation per hour. There are undoubtedly anesthesia group practices with docs working 35hours per week and twelve weeks vacation and practices with docs working 60 hours per week and six weeks vacation. With both practices being in the same MGMA percentile for income.
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the docs working 35 hours make more because they are monopolists.
 
nimbus said:
Soon we will all be working for the capitalists.
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Didn't realize so many anesthesiologists were socialists.:)

People love capitalism when they are owners. Hate it when they are employees. Myself included.
 
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dr doze said:
There are some holes in the MGMA data that make it difficult to analyze. It would be helpful if MGMA also broke down compensation per hour. There are undoubtedly anesthesia group practices with docs working 35hours per week and twelve weeks vacation and practices with docs working 60 hours per week and six weeks vacation. With both practices being in the same MGMA percentile for income.
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I agree. It's very difficult to talk about income unless we start breaking down not only hours worked but also benefits if W2.

I did work for an AMC once. It was a gentleman's agreement how many hours we should work (around 40 hours) at the surgery center and 52 hours at the hospital (they had different contracts). They miraculously did keep up their end of the agreement. I never avreaged more than 40 hours at their surgery center and no more than 50 hours at their hospital. But that was a few years ago.
 
dr doze said:
Didn't realize so many anesthesiologists were socialists.:)

People love capitalism when they are owners. Hate it when they are employees. Myself included.
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It isn't capitalism vs socialism. It's capitalism with or without an unnecessary middle man between you and your billing.
 
dr doze said:
Didn't realize so many anesthesiologists were socialists.:)

People love capitalism when they are owners. Hate it when they are employees. Myself included.
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I am completely pro-capitalism. Just saying the nature of anesthesia business is changing. Wall Street backed outfits such as Sheridan who can put up capital will own the business. The doctors will be lowly peons working for the man. You need capital to be a capitalist.
 
nimbus said:
I am completely pro-capitalism. Just saying the nature of anesthesia business is changing. Wall Street backed outfits such as Sheridan who can put up capital will own the business. The doctors will be lowly peons working for the man. You need capital to be a capitalist.
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Often times it's fake IOU money. Like the orlando/Houston/Dallas "merger" where the private equity investors "resold" the package to a private pension fund. Who than probably took another aig fake credit default swap to reinsure it.

All smoke and mirror with fake money being shifted around. U just don't want to be the last guy holding the IOU.
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
Not in California, I can guarantee you that. Most not even close actually.
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Shhh! It's important to believe everyone else has it better! I wonder why so many pulmonologists look at cc to increase their income, while anesthesiologists avoided cc because it drops theirs.

BLADEMDA said:
http://www.vmghealth.com/Downloads/PhysicianCompensationSurveyData.pdf

Sorry but the heme/oncology guys do very well. I know a few pulling in $600 W-2. Gi is well over $530 for private practice. If you aren't making $650 doing Gi you are part time or suck.

Pulmonary/CC is $400k W-2.
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What will happen when CMS decides that it will cut scope reimbursements? No, of course the whole world is aimed solely against anesthesiologists. The general public does nothing but loathe this one profession that it needs to keep it alive during surgery and laboring women and patients in pain from suffering.

Stop obsessing about money, it's becoming quite nauseating to read SDN ever since I started following the Anesthesiology threads. Maybe it's because anesthesia attracts OCD-types and therefore the people are more likely to be obsessive about things like money all... the... time.
 
LeverArm said:
Shhh! It's important to believe everyone else has it better! I wonder why so many pulmonologists look at cc to increase their income, while anesthesiologists avoided cc because it drops theirs.


What will happen when CMS decides that it will cut scope reimbursements? No, of course the whole world is aimed solely against anesthesiologists. The general public does nothing but loathe this one profession that it needs to keep it alive during surgery and laboring women and patients in pain from suffering.

Stop obsessing about money, it's becoming quite nauseating to read SDN ever since I started following the Anesthesiology threads. Maybe it's because anesthesia attracts OCD-types and therefore the people are more likely to be obsessive about things like money all... the... time.
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Anesthesiologists avoid CCM because of the WORK and the SICK Patients. Money is SECONDARY in the decision to avoid the ICU. Money makes the world go round and many med students choose their specialty based on income. If you are one the few idealists looking to save the world then Family practice or Infectious disease or Public Health makes a lot more sense than Anesthesiology.

The fact is that many med students choose Anesthesiology for the lifestyle and perceived high income. Unfortunately, by the time you graduate residency 80% of your fellow CA-3/CA-4 graduates won't get either.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Anesthesiologists avoid CCM because of the WORK and the SICK Patients. Money is SECONDARY in the decision to avoid the ICU. Money makes the world go round and many med students choose their specialty based on income. If you are one the few idealists looking to save the world then Family practice or Infectious disease or Public Health makes a lot more sense than Anesthesiology.

The fact is that many med students choose Anesthesiology for the lifestyle and perceived high income. Unfortunately, by the time you graduate residency 80% of your fellow CA-3/CA-4 graduates won't get either.
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How much money will make you happy?

I used to work an office job and hated it with a passion. I went to medical school because I wanted to be challenged and have some excitement in my work. I also wanted job security and knowing that I can have the time/money for a vacation with my family and not worry about making ends meet. All ego aside, I genuinely enjoyed what I imagine anesthesiology to be from my experience. I don't think I would like acting like a CRNA even for comparable pay. So if I can live a decent life and have a good job then it's all worth it. People searching for money as their primary goal will usually never be happy in my honest opinion but they will try their hardest to buy this happiness or at least the perception as a way to redeem their lack of passion for their work.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
Anesthesiologists avoid CCM because of the WORK and the SICK Patients. Money is SECONDARY in the decision to avoid the ICU. Money makes the world go round and many med students choose their specialty based on income. If you are one the few idealists looking to save the world then Family practice or Infectious disease or Public Health makes a lot more sense than Anesthesiology.

The fact is that many med students choose Anesthesiology for the lifestyle and perceived high income. Unfortunately, by the time you graduate residency 80% of your fellow CA-3/CA-4 graduates won't get either.
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What if you picked anesthesiology for the sick patients?
 
countingdays said:
I avoid ICU because I don't want to spend all my time prolonging death, taking care of people who should have comfort measures only.
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Sounds like your typical MICU gomer pt. Different pt demographic in the SICU. More preventing death, not infrequently due to mismanagement in the OR
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
Sounds like your typical MICU gomer pt. Different pt demographic in the SICU. More preventing death, not infrequently due to mismanagement in the OR
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Serious? Sometimes **** happens. If you are critiquing your general anesthesiologist colleagues you probably need to look in the mirror and do some self reflection. The ICU trained faculty at my place leave plenty to be desired in regards to their in OR skills. I'd rather have some of our 70 year old faculty taking care of my loved one in crunch time in the OR.
 
BobBarker said:
Serious? Sometimes **** happens. If you are critiquing your general anesthesiologist colleagues you probably need to look in the mirror and do some self reflection. The ICU trained faculty at my place leave plenty to be desired in regards to their in OR skills. I'd rather have some of our 70 year old faculty taking care of my loved one in crunch time in the OR.
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Take it easy tiger...not criticizing, just making an honest statement. We all know there are some anesthesiologists better than others, I don't care if they did a fellowship or not. Was just making the point that CCM isn't all taking care of hopeless pts.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Anesthesiologists avoid CCM because of the WORK and the SICK Patients.
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For me, the major downsides to the ICU are the social work, families, and having to trust a nurse to take care of my patient. Despite that I've always liked my ICU time.

Some of the things I love most about anesthesia are a patient who doesn't talk to me for more than a few minutes, restricted real estate where families can't find me, no law 5 worries (PLACEMENT COMES FIRST), and no people between me and a patient with an urgent need.
 
LeverArm said:
Stop obsessing about money, it's becoming quite nauseating to read SDN ever since I started following the Anesthesiology threads. Maybe it's because anesthesia attracts OCD-types and therefore the people are more likely to be obsessive about things like money all... the... time.
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Most people work for money, just fyi.
 
circulus vitios said:
Most people work for money, just fyi.
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Speak for yourself you greedy SOB! Screw all of you scum bags wanting to pay back your obscene student loans and provide for your families. Have you no morals?

Medicine is the "calling" for ALL med students. They are the chosen ones. Imagine a world where these amazing altruistic souls did not exist. People would be having surgery with ANY anesthesia and performing epidurals on themselves.

How DARE any of you bring up the business side of medicine? It CLEARLY isn't taught in med school or residency for a reason! ;)
 
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Someone please post the starting salary of a freshly minted anesthesiologist and fellowship trained anesthesiologist in 'the golden years' compared to now. Per the forum, the sky has been falling and ground has been lost. I'd like to know how much.

Thanks.
 
turnupthegas said:
Someone please post the starting salary of a freshly minted anesthesiologist and fellowship trained anesthesiologist in 'the golden years' compared to now. Per the forum, the sky has been falling and ground has been lost. I'd like to know how much.

Thanks.
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I think the problem isnt the starting salaries, but that there is a ceiling on all salaries going forward that will keep dropping. Instead: 3 yrs at $250k, then partner where the sky is the limit depending on how much you want to work, and also doing your own cases, so maybe $650k+ on 55hrs/wk; now it is start low and end low with more liability in CRNAs. Relatively speaking of course..
 
turnupthegas said:
Someone please post the starting salary of a freshly minted anesthesiologist and fellowship trained anesthesiologist in 'the golden years' compared to now. Per the forum, the sky has been falling and ground has been lost. I'd like to know how much.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

My offers in 1996......no fellowship.....$108k SoCal academic..$200k SoCal pp...$500k in Vegas n Tahoe pp.

In real dollars....compensation has declined.
 
nimbus said:
My offers in 1996......no fellowship.....$108k SoCal academic..$200k SoCal pp...$500k in Vegas n Tahoe pp.

In real dollars....compensation has declined.
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I think this post nails it: LOCATION is the main variable.

Most new grads are going to take call and be on board with partnership track. So your talking 250k to start in desirable areas, 150k in crazy places like MGH where they thing its a privilege to work there, and 350-450k to start in BFE (with more vacation and ridiculous benefits).

I personally would rather take 250k working my way up to 400k in a desireable area where family is happy and relatives close by, than to work in BFE and have high income and low cost of living. Sure your rich, but your in BFE.

So i think that is where I would start if I were a new grad, how bad do i want the extra 100-200k? bad enough to live in BFE? good then go for it, want to be near family/civilization? suck up the paycut but realize you are getting a priceless advantage. So comparing these jobs is a little like comparing apples to oranges. And just for frame of reference I would consider anything outside of NYC area, Chicago area, DC area, LA area, to be BFE. I think lots of people are in BFE but do not realize it ;) and are under the impression they got a great deal, but in reality its just because no one wants to live there
 
Hoya11 said:
So i think that is where I would start if I were a new grad, how bad do i want the extra 100-200k? bad enough to live in BFE? good then go for it, want to be near family/civilization? suck up the paycut but realize you are getting a priceless advantage. So comparing these jobs is a little like comparing apples to oranges. And just for frame of reference I would consider anything outside of NYC area, Chicago area, DC area, LA area, to be BFE. I think lots of people are in BFE but do not realize it ;) and are under the impression they got a great deal, but in reality its just because no one wants to live there
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I'm so glad there are people who want to live in NYC, Chicago, DC, and LA ... just as I'm so glad there are people who want to do primary care and slog away in clinic all day! :D
 
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Hoya11 said:
I think this post nails it: LOCATION is the main variable.

Most new grads are going to take call and be on board with partnership track. So your talking 250k to start in desirable areas, 150k in crazy places like MGH where they thing its a privilege to work there, and 350-450k to start in BFE (with more vacation and ridiculous benefits).

I personally would rather take 250k working my way up to 400k in a desireable area where family is happy and relatives close by, than to work in BFE and have high income and low cost of living. Sure your rich, but your in BFE.

So i think that is where I would start if I were a new grad, how bad do i want the extra 100-200k? bad enough to live in BFE? good then go for it, want to be near family/civilization? suck up the paycut but realize you are getting a priceless advantage. So comparing these jobs is a little like comparing apples to oranges. And just for frame of reference I would consider anything outside of NYC area, Chicago area, DC area, LA area, to be BFE. I think lots of people are in BFE but do not realize it ;) and are under the impression they got a great deal, but in reality its just because no one wants to live there
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Id blow my brains out if I lived in any of those. Already lived on NYC for a while....**** that. Earn less and pay more to live in that rat race? No thanks

Guess I've lived in bfe almost my whole life. My wife and I love it and I'm glad no one else does!!
 
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