Michigan School of Professional Psychology

[PsyD ProgCuriou]

Does anyone have any insight to this program and how it compares to other PsyD's?

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[futureapppsy2]

Well, they're not APA accredited nor are they funded, both of which are two big red flags, IMO, especially the non-accredition.

 

[erg923]

What's with all these new clincial/counnseling psych programs lately anyway? Do we really need more? There's already 190 in the continental US. I think any person halfway in the loop here knows that we dont need MORE people in the predoc internship match pool...we need less. Much less.

 

[syzergy]

Well, they're not APA accredited nor are they funded, both of which are two big red flags, IMO, especially the non-accredition.

THIS... plus our ridiculous weather. 😱 Not worth it

 

[edieb]

I don't know much about it, but I did my pre-doctoral internship at Wayne State School of Medicine in Detroit and I know all the apps received from applicants at that school were thrown in the garbage (no exaggeration). Maybe it's because the school isn't accredited, though

 

[busybusybusy]

Even though I absolutely hate the GRE, when a school doesn't require it as a part of your admissions package it should be another red flag. If you're really looking to go to a prof. school you might as well go to one that is APA accredited, give yourself that little bit of extra credibility.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Anyone who is remotely interested in any type of licensed/clinical position should avoid all programs that are not APA-acred. There is no upside and a great many number of downsides.

 

[PsyD ProgCuriou]

Thank you for the feedback. The school has applied for APA Accred. We will see...

 

[PsyD ProgCuriou]

If they recieve APA status, does that change your opinions? It seems, based on other threads, professional schools are not credible regardless of APA...?

I am a first time SDN user and I apologize for multiple posts....

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Receiving APA accreditation would indeed significantly boost the professional viability of the program and, perhaps more important, its graduates. That being said, most posters here would probably agree that you would likely be better off aiming for university-based Psy.D. and/or Ph.D. programs if possible.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

On July 13, 2010, Governor Jennifer Granholm signed Senate Bill 1315 (Jacobs) which provides in state law that institutions that offer doctoral degrees in psychology need to have their programs nationally accredited by August 31, 2015. This initiative, referred to as Public Act 121 of 2010, was supported by the Department of Community Health. Initially, the Michigan Board of Psychology promulgated a rule which required doctoral degree programs to have national accreditation by August 1, 2011; however, this law statutorily extends that deadline to August 31, 2015. MiSPP supports the national accreditation requirement and is well underway working toward achieving this designation.

good for Michigan.

 

[PsyD ProgCuriou]

Thank you, Acronym

 

[graduatingsoon]

Focus your search on reputable PhD and PsyD programs that are APA accredited, funded, and have good APA internship match rates!

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

It seems, based on other threads, professional schools are not credible regardless of APA...?

Oh the Piffle. Do your dilligence, which means looking at something other than the elite leading the chosen ones on x number of threads here, and if you still believe this maybe PM me.

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

The elite argument again? Really?

Guess what? Getting a Ph.D. IS elite, considering only roughly 3% of the population gets a doctoral degree. It should be a red flag that if you are seeking a dumbed down program (e.g., professional school degree mill), you probably shouldn't be seeking the degree.

Hmmm not sure we're talking about the same "elite" argument. There seem to be a few, so pardon me if I choose not to speak to the one you seem concerned to promote (PhD > PsyD. The OP was inquiring about a PsyD, after all, but also about the value/importance of the APA seal of approval). In this instance, I was rankled by the bogus and insulting information that says professional schools are invalid. Especially bogus inasmuch as we seem to have no idea what the OP hopes to study or do with the opportunities afforded by that education.

If they recieve APA status, does that change your opinions? It seems, based on other threads, professional schools are not credible regardless of APA...?

… most posters here would probably agree that you would likely be better off aiming for university-based Psy.D. and/or Ph.D. programs if possible.

 

[graduatingsoon]

I think people on this thread are just trying to be helpful and realistic with people by letting them know what the risks are of going to a professional school. These risks are facts: you are much more likely to accrue a tremendous amount of debt and have trouble securing an accredited internship as a whole coming from a non-university based professional program (this will also create further employment barriers later on).

most clinical psychologists that i've spoken to feel the same way about the credibility of these professional programs and they are the ones looking for interns and choosing who will be accepted into a post-doc/internship program.

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

I think people on this thread are just trying to be helpful and realistic with people by letting them know what the risks are of going to a professional school.

Perhaps. Realize, though -- this thread is but a small part of the larger discussion on this topic here on this forum. Across several threads, this discussion hasn't always been helpful or realistic. Again, we have no information from the OP about educational and professional goals, so the risks being mentioned may or may not apply.

These risks are facts: you are much more likely to accrue a tremendous amount of debt and have trouble securing an accredited internship as a whole coming from a non-university based professional program (this will also create further employment barriers later on).

Assuming your construct of risk has any validity for this person's goals and financial status, it's safe to say a) perhaps, b) perhaps, and c) perhaps. On top of that, I'd argue (and have argued) that all FSPSs are not created equal.

most clinical psychologists that i've spoken to feel the same way about the credibility of these professional programs and they are the ones looking for interns and choosing who will be accepted into a post-doc/internship program.

Not to be nit-picky, but if it boils down to how they feel, who can argue with them? I've gotten too old for such sport. Meanwhile, most of the clinical psychologists I've spoken with don't feel that way (and let's be clear, they are the ones looking for interns and choosing who will be accepted into a post-doc/internship program, too).

 

[aequitasveritas]

I think two things are generally true, for me, on SDN.

1. As a professional school student I have no problem admitting that I think the pro-school set up should be thoroughly revamped, and the financial halls gutted. Moreover, for-profit schools should be chopped. So I agree with all that jazz. I also believe that many pro schools make a better practicing doctor than many research programs but let's not digress. Point being, I agree with the chopping and vamping

2. There are some pretty unique personalities on this forum; there are messiahs spreading the word of the anti-pro-school gospel. It indeed takes a unique individual to get on here and make thousands of posts, as many do, on each and every topic under the sun, and with such certainty and apparent authority. I also find it truly hilarious that one fellow on here who happens to be the most caustic and verbose anti-pro-school pamphleteer is a closet pro school student and doesn't admit it. So I take into account the sources of course. Anywhoo...those are some things I keep n mind whilst on here.

Hey Buzzword...I just noticed your Nevit Stanford avatar. Do you think he may think there are some Authoritarian Personalities on here? ha

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

I think two things are generally true, for me, on SDN.

1. As a professional school student I have no problem admitting that I think the pro-school set up should be thoroughly revamped, and the financial halls gutted. Moreover, for-profit schools should be chopped. So I agree with all that jazz. I also believe that many pro schools make a better practicing doctor than many research programs but let's not digress. Point being, I agree with the chopping and vamping

Yeah. Although we could all wind up looking like background dancers in a "Kung Fu Fighting" video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhUkGIsKvn0

2. There are some pretty unique personalities on this forum; there are messiahs spreading the word of the anti-pro-school gospel. It indeed takes a unique individual to get on here and make thousands of posts, as many do, on each and every topic under the sun, and with such certainty and apparent authority. I also find it truly hilarious that one fellow on here who happens to be the most caustic and verbose anti-pro-school pamphleteer is a closet pro school student and doesn't admit it. So I take into account the sources of course. Anywhoo...those are some things I keep n mind whilst on here.

Oh snap. Pretty sure I know who...

Hey Buzzword...I just noticed your Nevit Stanford [sic] avatar. Do you think he may think there are some Authoritarian Personalities on here? ha

Sigh. I wonder what he thought of the good ol' F scale later in life. In any case, I have deep respect for his determination to unmask the psychological as political. I'm sure he wouldn't be too surprised by the dominant biases and trends here, though I can't help but feel the occasional twinge of hopelessness. I appreciate your post.

 

[cara susanna]

Oh, jeez. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to oppose professional schools and I doubt they're correlated with RWA.

 

[aequitasveritas]

Oh, jeez. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to oppose professional schools and I doubt they're correlated with RWA.

Oh I agree Cara. I support those arguments as well. The point I was making was quite different. My second point above was that there are so many disciples on SDN who appear to know anything and everything under the sun.

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

Oh, jeez. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to oppose professional schools and I doubt they're correlated with RWA.

Yeah, what AV said. But, um, you're not implying that there may be legitimate reasons, correlated with RWA, for opposing professional schools, are you? I mean, you're entitled to and all, I guess, but... Ah heck, I know you're not implying that. I think.

OK I just wanted to double check. I think you're saying there is no need to correlate RWA with arguments opposing prof schools, that there are plenty of legitimate reasons for opposing prof schools, and that reasons which do have their basis in RWA would be illegitimate. That sure would be warmer and fuzzier...

 

[cara susanna]

Er, yeah, I was trying to say the latter.

 

[ClinicalPHD5]

The numbers for professional schools overall are pretty dismal. sure, there are some variations among schools, but many have pretty pathetic internship placements.

for example, Argosy's clinical psychology program in San Francisco has an APA match rate of between 0% and 20% over the last 7 years. In 2009, 11 students applied for internship and 0 got APA accredited internships. How is this program APA accredited and how is it not shut down? Students instead take on unpaid, unaccredited internships so they are also working full-time for free in an unaccredited site. All of this after 5 years of school and more than 100,000 spent.

I didn't have time to look at every single program online, but the numbers are scary. Would you go to a medical school that boasted a 0% residency match rate for accredited residency programs?

Michigan school of professional psychology is not even accredited so they don't even publish the numbers. I would imagine that the apa internship rate is 0% for them as well.

 

[ClinicalPHD5]

Buzzwordsoldier: the fact that a professional school graduate is very much against professional schools lends more support to the idea that there are many risks involved with attending these programs and that students should be informed about them.

Sure, we don't know the exact detail about this person's professional goals, but even if she wants to work for herself in private practice there is a good chance that she may never get licensed and let's remember that you can't graduate from a program without an internship either so she may also never obtain her degree. Additionally, if she wants to work in a completely different field having a degree on your CV from michigan school of professional psychology will not impress any employer.

 

[ClinicalPHD5]

Quick correction, what i meant to say is that if you look at argosy's clinical psychology program in san francisco, CA, out of 52 students, only 2 landed APA accredited intenrnships in 2009. In 2002, 11 people applied and 0 got APA internships.

 

[erg923]

As one who operates at a pretty much chronic state of existential crisis, I envy that certitude in a way.

Aww...would you like to "talk" about that, Snow? 😉

 

[PsychScience]

What's with all these new clincial/counnseling psych programs lately anyway? Do we really need more? There's already 190 in the continental US. I think any person halfway in the loop here knows that we dont need MORE people in the predoc internship match pool...we need less. Much less.

Actually, MiSPP is not a new program. I agree with you that we don't need any more programs, but this program has slightly different roots than your traditional for profit PsyD granting institution. This, however, does not overcome what edieb already noted.

I don't know much about it, but I did my pre-doctoral internship at Wayne State School of Medicine in Detroit and I know all the apps received from applicants at that school were thrown in the garbage (no exaggeration). Maybe it's because the school isn't accredited, though

I can't begin to agree with this enough. I attend a doctoral program in the midwest, and this school does not have a good reputation. Regardless of accreditation status, they do not get the same level of training that you would expect for a doctoral level program. I have witnessed practicum and internship directors refuse to work with these students for this reason alone. Granted, this is just an outsiders perspective, but I do think it speaks to the perception of the program in the area. It might be worth it to track down a graduate or current student. One of their students can likely attest to the internal quality of the program better than me.

If they recieve APA status, does that change your opinions? It seems, based on other threads, professional schools are not credible regardless of APA...?

I am a first time SDN user and I apologize for multiple posts....

Given the reputation, I would be surprised if they get accredited by APA. And even if they did receive APA accreditation, it would not change the impression that I have of the program.

 

[PsychScience]

Hmmm not sure we're talking about the same "elite" argument. There seem to be a few, so pardon me if I choose not to speak to the one you seem concerned to promote (PhD > PsyD. The OP was inquiring about a PsyD, after all, but also about the value/importance of the APA seal of approval). In this instance, I was rankled by the bogus and insulting information that says professional schools are invalid. Especially bogus inasmuch as we seem to have no idea what the OP hopes to study or do with the opportunities afforded by that education.

Not sure this actually needs to turn into a debate about PsyD versus PhD. I think the OP actually asked how this specific program compared to other PsyD programs, not about PsyDs in general. So I would think the advise should gravitate towards answering that question rather than the merits of the degree.

EDIT: Sorry, just realized the OP did actually ask about professional schools in a general way in a subsequent post. However, I still think this is a different argument than PsyD versus PhD

 

[PsyD ProgCuriou]

Thank you for everyone's responses. My career goals are to remain within the medical school and university counseling center I currently work for. Down the line, my mentor (PhD who recommended MiSSP PsyD program to me..) and I may think about establishing a private practice together.

I am very cautious about this program now, per your comments. I really was excited about the coursework and philosophy of the school- they seem in line with my personal philosophy, but I also want to be wise in my time/financial investments.

Sigh....

 

[Kathrynne1]

If I were you, I'd wait until they get APA. I'm currently a student there in my 3rd year of the PsyD program. I know you wrote this in May, but if you're still interested in the program, I'm willing to answer questions for you.

It's not a diploma mill, fly by night kind of school. It was started by Clark Moustakas in Detroit and used to be called the Center for Humanistic Studies. The degree is Clinical Humanistic Psychology....you may want to research humanistic psychology, division 32 of the APA, Maslow, Rogers, Yalom....to see if you'd be a good fit. It's a wonderful school, but it's not a PhD, that's for sure. They value experiential learning and have a lot of professors that have psychoanalytical and existential backgrounds.

That said, if they don't get APA, I don't see the PsyD program continuing. They know this and are working their asses off.

Some of the downfalls...

Qualitative research, hardly any support for quantitative. No subject pools for research.
No TA positions.
Tuition will end up costing you almost 100,000.
Not many internship placements. Not much APPIC support. (I'm doing it now..it's been rough)

And most importantly..being from a non-APA school puts you at a disadvantage. I doubt any of the APA internships will even consider my application. Half of them even come out and say they won't take non-APA students. You won't be able to teach at any APA universities if your degree isn't APA accredited. No APA Post-Doc's either. You can't work at any VA hospitals.. you get the idea.

If you're still interested in a PsyD and humanistic psychology appeals to you look into the Chicago School of Professional Psychology.

 

[deleted176373]

deleted... thread from the dead

 

[voyeurofthemind]

Well said. Some people really have too much time on their hands for ongoing vitriolic dialogue.

 

[Jackicanyounot]

Resurfacing this thread. They are now APA accredited and require a GRE score. Waiting to hear back from them and wondering if anyone has any other thoughts? Only school in MI that offers a PsyD, may be my back up school. Maybe not if I feel like leaving MI or not.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Facts-

0 (yep, that's a zero) students attended an APA accredited internship since 2009. Only 59% grads are licensed. Attrition rates around 20% every year. Over 100k total tuition, not including fees. Apparently no assistantships or stipends to defray costs.

Opinions-

I don't think any opinions are necessary. Caveat emptor.