Military budget

[dnt0711]

I find it incredibly unfair that the military "runs out of money" and cannot give scholarships to everyone who applied. It would be one thing if 1/2 of the dental students in the country applied, but it seems that there are not too many more people who apply than there are scholarships available. Then those people get put on the waitlist and ultimately get one.

I especially find this unfair when every time I turn on the TV or read the newspaper, I hear about the billions of dollars spend each year just training people how to blow stuff up and going on useless neverending training missions. I was watching the PBS documentary that someone posted on here recently and, while I thought it was cool to see life on a ship, I could not believe how much money was wasted everyday. They had the $60 million fighter jets with the pilots ($1 million to train each one) taking off all day every day and never even drop a bomb! Nevermind the cost of running that ship all over the world! That's just the tip of the iceberg too.

While posting on here really doesn't do anything, and if the military says they are out of scholarships, then they're out. There's nothing we can do. However, I just find it so incredibly frustrating to think that the Army/Navy/AF will put people on the OML for a year, make them take out huge student loans for a year and then take them for a 3 year scholarship. For the Army this extra cost would be almost nothing, pennies for them, the cost of a couple bombs dropped over Iraq, but for the students, its a huge burden. Plus, I'd assume there are losing a whole year of this person's contract and will ultimately have to spend a lot more money training new dentists a year earlier. Personally I wanted a career in the military, but if I have a huge student loan like that, I may have to get out after 3 years just to make a real dentists salary. A military dentists salary is fine, but not if I will have a $1,500/mo student loan payment on top of it. Finally, doesn't the military have to employ a bunch of civilian contract dentists because they don't have enough of their own? Here's a thought--take more HPSPs!

My application has been held up for so my months by a bunch of administrative crap, the recruiters being on vacation, etc. There was nothing I could do about it, and now I'm gonna pay the price. It was no fault of my own, but it feels like I'm being robbed of $90K, just because my recruiter didn't know how to pull the right strings and get my stuff in on time.

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[del Sol DOHC]

Stop ****ing whining. No one robbed you of $90k. The military's job is to defend the United States of America and her interests, not to pay the tuition of every single dental student who wants it. They only have a certain number of scholarships each year because that's how many new dentists they calculated that they will need to support the mission. They don't have to, nor should they award scholarships to more dentists than they actually need. Life is tough. Wipe your tears and get over it.

 

[385835]

Which branch is out of scholarships?

 

[dnt0711]

You see it your way, I'll see it my way.

I was a perfect candidate and applied many months before most scholarship recipients even thought about talking to a recruiter. I think that I should've gotten one. I haven't been rejected yet, but it looks like everything is full and I'll be stuck on the OML. There might be a few 4-years left floating around in the Army and Navy, but I'm still dealing with sh*tty recruiters and administrative delays for no valid reason. I was on top of my stuff and couldn't control the fact that my recruiter did not submit my docs for months, even though he told me he did.

I want to spend my career as a military dentist, rather than the majority of people getting the scholarship who want to weasel their way out of the military in as little time as possible. And as I said, it seems like they don't have an ample number of dentists, since they're always hiring civilian contractor dentists.

PostBak: The AF is done for the year, Navy has about 3 left, but a lot of packets will be going to the boards last minute, and the Army also seems to be done for the year unless anyone declines.

 

[385835]

Is OML kind of like being waitlisted at a dental school?

I think Del sol dohc was on the OML and wound up getting it.

Man they went fast this year. Done by april?

 

[NOLAdentist2016]

Is OML kind of like being waitlisted at a dental school?

Yes. I'm on the OML for Army. According to my recruiter it is "We like what we see and want to accept you, but we ran out of money." Then they usually give these people a 3 year in October when more money is available. It kinda sucks.

 

[385835]

Hey nola, I saw your other post. The army was out of money before the april board even met? That means they got all they wanted in march for 4 years? that is fast.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

I understand that you are upset, but you come off as seeming rather entitled and whiny. You totally discount the training and hard work that everyone in the military does everyday because it costs money that SHOULD go to your scholarship instead. It is interesting that you say you deserve this scholarship more than other applicants who don't have the same high aspirations for a military career, but you are totally unwilling to join if you only got a 3 year scholarship, which is still a really great deal that many others would take in a heartbeat. Perhaps it is for the best because, from my experience in the military, it isn't the place for someone who complains about things being unfair and has feelings of entitlement. By the way, the military uses civilian dentists to fill slots that are non-operational. It doesn't mean they don't have enough military dentists.

 

[NOLAdentist2016]

That's what my recruiter told me. He told me that they day he submitted my packet (April 3, the deadline), there were zero scholarships left. He said a couple more might have become available if people turned them down, but pretty much they were all taken. I know, way too fast. I wish I went through school 4 years ago when they weren't filling all the scholarships and tuition was cheaper.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

I think Del sol dohc was on the OML and wound up getting it.

That is true, PostBak. I was on the OML, and was selected for a scholarship in the end of June. But I had already decided that I would transfer to the Navy and continue serving, scholarship or not. HPSP was a nice bonus!

 

[dnt0711]

I understand that you are upset, but you come off as seeming rather entitled and whiny. You totally discount the training and hard work that everyone in the military does everyday because it costs money that SHOULD go to your scholarship instead. It is interesting that you say you deserve this scholarship more the other applicants who don't have the same high aspirations for a military career, but you are totally unwilling to join if you only got a 3 year scholarship, which is still a really great deal that many others would take in a heartbeat. Perhaps it is for the best because, from my experience in the military, it isn't the place for someone who complains about things being unfair and has feelings of entitlement. By the way, the military uses civilian dentists to fill slots that are non-operational. It doesn't mean they don't have enough military dentists.

No, I never said that. I'm not unwilling to join with a 3 year scholarship. I'd still take what I can get. 90K of debt is better than almost 400K of debt.


However, I said that it would be much harder to live as a military dentist with 90K of debt, plus interest, plus 25K of undergrad debt than a military dentist with just 25K of undergrad debt. After loan payments and taxes I'll be living on maybe 30K a year. I said that this might be forced to get out after 3 years just to take care of myself, especailly if I have a family. I don't need to be rich, but I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck just because of such ridiculous circumstances (missing out on a scholarship by a few days).


And really, all I was trying to say, is that it is astonishing how much money the military seems to waste each year. Billions of dollars. I recently read something that the military decided to change the color of the Camo uniforms used in Iraq and Afghanistan. They wanted it to be a little darker brown. So they had to buy an entire new set of equipment for every single person deploying, at a cost of I think $15,000 per person. I didn't realize the military was so into fashion.

 

[Vigilante]

No, I never said that. I'm not unwilling to join with a 3 year scholarship. I'd still take what I can get. 90K of debt is better than almost 400K of debt.

However, I said that it would be much harder to live as a military dentist with 90K of debt, plus interest, plus 25K of undergrad debt than a military dentist with just 25K of undergrad debt. After loan payments and taxes I'll be living on maybe 30K a year. I said that this might be forced to get out after 3 years just to take care of myself, especailly if I have a family. I don't need to be rich, but I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck just because of such ridiculous circumstances (missing out on a scholarship by a few days).

I'd really like to hear your math behind these calculations...

 

[dnt0711]

I'd really like to hear your math behind these calculations...

90K x 4 years of dental school + interest accrued in dental school = approximately 400K total for dental school.

From what I've seen, a military dentist makes about 65K/year.
Then lets take out takes. I think some of that 65K isn't taxable (the housing allowance, etc).
So, I'm guessing that after taxes, thats about $52,000/year take home. That's not too bad.

But then if you make a $1,500/month loan payment (I got this figure from a student loan payback calculator), that's $18,000 a year you're losing.

Bottom line: $52,000-$18000=$34,000

I know these are just estimates, but I don't think my math is that far off.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

No, I never said that. I'm not unwilling to join with a 3 year scholarship. I'd still take what I can get. 90K of debt is better than almost 400K of debt.

However, I said that it would be much harder to live as a military dentist with 90K of debt, plus interest, plus 25K of undergrad debt than a military dentist with just 25K of undergrad debt. After loan payments and taxes I'll be living on maybe 30K a year. I said that this might be forced to get out after 3 years just to take care of myself, especailly if I have a family. I don't need to be rich, but I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck just because of such ridiculous circumstances (missing out on a scholarship by a few days).

My apologies, I misread that. I'm sorry if I came off as harsh. I totally understand your frustration, and that certainly is a lot of debt, but the military doesn't owe you anything. Besides, you could very well still be selected off of the OML for a 4 year scholarship. A lot of people wuss out when it comes time to sign the commissioning documents, and those scholarships will be offered to applicants on the OML. Even if you get a 3 year scholarship, you should be making more than that.

With some rough calculations assuming you are single O-3 and stationed at NS Norfolk, you will gross $86,887.44 a year before taxes. Only $65,251.92 of that is taxable. Plugging it into a paycheck calculator (For the worst case scenario, I assumed 0 exemptions and chose Maryland as your state, since they have high state taxes) and calculated that you will bring home about $65,450 after taxes. Your combined undergrad and dental school loans will have a monthly payment of about $1,500. That leaves you with about $47,450 per year after taxes and loan payments. If you are married, it would be about $49,788. It's not a ton of money, but you should be able to live comfortably.

 

[NOLAdentist2016]

Do you have any idea how likely it is to get off the waitlist? You did, but were you just lucky? Is it a large list or just a pretty small, select few people put on the OML? I couldn't get much out of my recruiter. He didn't know if it was ranked or anything.
I can't image that many people would actually wuss out at the last minute. Unless they got into the state school or won the lottery. I will continue to be hopeful about my chances on the OML, but prepare for the worst.

 

[vellnueve]

Life isn't fair.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Do you have any idea how likely it is to get off the waitlist? You did, but were you just lucky? Is it a large list or just a pretty small, select few people put on the OML? I couldn't get much out of my recruiter. He didn't know if it was ranked or anything.
I can't image that many people would actually wuss out at the last minute. Unless they got into the state school or won the lottery. I will continue to be hopeful about my chances on the OML, but prepare for the worst.

I can't give you any numbers because I don't know how many applicants they had this year or how many scholarships they were giving out. More people pass on the scholarship than you would think. A lot of them apply early and are only thinking of the money they will save, not really knowing much of anything about what they are getting into. Then when it gets closer to actually making the commitment, they do some research, often here on SDN. They realize that they didn't ask enough questions, or maybe got the wrong answers from their recruiters.

"My recruiter said that dentists don't ever deploy, unless they volunteer for a humanitarian mission."

"How good do my grades have to be for the Navy to give me a deferral for a civilian ortho residency?"

"My parents live in Texas, so I want to be stationed at NAS Corpus Christi for my entire 4 years."

"Only the unmarried dentists have to go overseas right?"

Once they realize that they are actually joining the military as a Naval Officer first and a dentist second, a lot of them will chicken out. Some will also get into their state school, so the scholarship is no longer worth as much to them. It happens more than you think, so being on the OML is not a bad place to be.

 

[NOLAdentist2016]

Life isn't fair.

True Dat! And not all recruiters were created equal. I wish I had learned that part many months ago. I think my results would be much different.

There should be a rateyourrecruiter.com.haha.

 

[Tirekicker]

I understand that you are upset, but you come off as seeming rather entitled and whiny. You totally discount the training and hard work that everyone in the military does everyday because it costs money that SHOULD go to your scholarship instead. It is interesting that you say you deserve this scholarship more than other applicants who don't have the same high aspirations for a military career, but you are totally unwilling to join if you only got a 3 year scholarship, which is still a really great deal that many others would take in a heartbeat. Perhaps it is for the best because, from my experience in the military, it isn't the place for someone who complains about things being unfair and has feelings of entitlement. By the way, the military uses civilian dentists to fill slots that are non-operational. It doesn't mean they don't have enough military dentists.

Bingo!

 

[dnt0711]

Bingo!

Thats easy for you to say. You got a scholarship. Stand on the other side of the fence sir and lets see if your point of view changes.

 

[385835]

Let's be honest, people in the military love complaining about their branches.

 

[Nat426]

Thats easy for you to say. You got a scholarship. Stand on the other side of the fence sir and lets see if your point of view changes.

I went through exactly what your going through, so I can understand your perspective perfectly. I was finally offered a 4 year HPSP slot 4 months into my D1 year, so things worked out for me, but from both sides of the fence, your comments still come across as whiny and immature.

 

[385835]

I can see why some people back out. Signing off on the next eight years of your life can be intimidating.

 

[Tirekicker]

Thats easy for you to say. You got a scholarship. Stand on the other side of the fence sir and lets see if your point of view changes.

No sir, I am actually on the same side of the fence as you. I don't have a scholarship yet, either. However, I've been in since september 2001 and I can tell you that the mission comes first. Now that things are slowing down in the sand box, the money is getting tight. Everybody is feeling the pinch. Welcome to the drawdown boys.

 

[vellnueve]

Now that things are slowing down in the sand box, the money is getting tight. Everybody is feeling the pinch. Welcome to the drawdown boys.

Exactly.

 

[fujindesu]

Navy only has 3 scholarship? left? It's getting very competitive this year, looks like my recruiter and I wasted a lot of time. OP you may want to consider HPCP if you're going to be a lifer. Loans will be forgiven after 10 years thru PLSF. good luck.

 

[yappy]

OP: The armed services are there to defend the US and its interests. This most often means to kill the enemy. That is the goal. I was in one of the more heavily trained positions and you need to constantly practice in order to keep your skills sharp for those high-stakes-lower-frequency situations. Training is not a waist of money.

Work on your attitude and try to gain some perspective beyond your own interests.

 

[dnt0711]

Yes, I have taken some time to think about this and I now see that I was being a little insensitive and came across as obnoxious. I have just been overly frustrated by this process and keep getting led on and promised things, and then let down in the end. While I know that I do not just deserve anything and should be grateful for whatever I receive, I was just really excited and hopeful that my plans would work out as I wanted. It sucks when things that mean so much to you don't work like you plan.

 

[teeth63a]

Ah you got a love "Entitlement mentality". But at least the OP has seen the light. You won't get far in the military with an outlook you had in your original post.

 

[Tirekicker]

Yes, I have taken some time to think about this and I now see that I was being a little insensitive and came across as obnoxious. I have just been overly frustrated by this process and keep getting led on and promised things, and then let down in the end. While I know that I do not just deserve anything and should be grateful for whatever I receive, I was just really excited and hopeful that my plans would work out as I wanted. It sucks when things that mean so much to you don't work like you plan.

Welcome to the military! "Hurry up and wait" is the name of the game. Things are rarely sure in the military. It's best to stay flexible. I learned a valuable lesson in basic: expect the worse and you'll never be disappointed. Hopefully, you can benefit from this experience. If nothing else, you should have a better idea what to expect in your career, but don't worry. If you are in it for the right reasons, it's worth it. Honestly, for me, joining the military has been one of the best decisions of my life. Best of luck to you!

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Welcome to the military! "Hurry up and wait" is the name of the game. Things are rarely sure in the military. It's best to stay flexible. I learned a valuable lesson in basic: expect the worse and you'll never be disappointed. Hopefully, you can benefit from this experience. If nothing else, you should have a better idea what to expect in your career, but don't worry. If you are in it for the right reasons, it's worth it. Honestly, for me, joining the military has been one of the best decisions of my life. Best of luck to you!

I couldn't have said it better.