Military medicine: Is it right for me?

[Major_Guile]

Hello, I am in the final stages of receiving a military scholarship and I am seeking more information. I plan on going into Primary Care after medical school (although plans obviously may change). I am going to a state school. I will be joining the Air Force. Ask me if there is any other information y'all may need about me!

My questions are:

1) I saw older posts about how I may not work as hard as a military doc. Is this true? My recruiter touted this as a benefit, but I see this as a major con. Are there certain fields where I would work just as hard helping in important ways?

2) I am not certain how long I will be serving. Correct me if I am wrong, but after medical school, I will be serving 4 years on active duty where I will likely be called overseas and then I will serve 4 years stateside?

3) I heard of some cases where good AF docs are not matched to their desired residencies and must serve additional time in positions that they did not intend to? Can people speak more about how that as well?

4) Do y'all think I could serve overseas, in like Germany, if I requested it? I want to travel...

5) Will the pay be about equal if I planned on doing civilian primary care?

6) How much will administration infringe on my ability to stay busy helping patients?

Thank y'all for the consideration!

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[idq1i]

I am sure that many of the posters will answer your questions in detail (even though all these questions have been answered already). I will only point out one thing - you are saying that you are in the final stages of acceptance, and your questions suggest that you know NOTHING about what you are getting yourself into. You are signing up for a minimum of an 8 year commitment that doesn't start until 4.5 year from now, and you are THAT misinformed? Perhaps you may want to pull the e-brake and reconsider? Milmed might be right for you, but you should at least try make an informed decision.

 

[Major_Guile]

Just looking for more information from more sources is all.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Just looking for more information from more sources is all.

You aren't getting it. Your questions reflect such a superficial understanding of what you are in the "late stages" of choosing that it makes us shake our heads slowly. Spend 10 hours searching and reading here, then formulate some more sophisticated questions.

 

[WernickeDO]

I think I just strayed into The Onion. OP's post is satire at its purest. Bravo!

 

[Gastrapathy]

The funny thing is that many of us joined when we couldn't get this info and now it's just not that hard. Pvt. Benjamin part deux.

 

[Clap MD]

The funny thing is that many of us joined when we couldn't get this info and now it's just not that hard. Pvt. Benjamin part deux.

I wish I'd known about this forum while researching the scholarship. I still might have taken it, but it would have cut out a lot of the surprises. From all the years of people asking (and patient others answering) these questions, what you need to know can be found simply using the search bar. Not enough has changed to make any of the answers (at least those important to the decision of taking the scholarship) obsolete.

 

[Major_Guile]

That's what I thought. I'll cancel my application now.

 

[pgg]

Groundhog Day again?

OP, start by reading the stickies and then for good measure, every thread on the first few pages of the forum. Then do some searches for more specific topics.

1) I saw older posts about how I may not work as hard as a military doc. Is this true?

Maybe.

2) I am not certain how long I will be serving. Correct me if I am wrong, but after medical school, I will be serving 4 years on active duty where I will likely be called overseas and then I will serve 4 years stateside?

No.

3) I heard of some cases where good AF docs are not matched to their desired residencies and must serve additional time in positions that they did not intend to?

Not everyone matches. GMO time exists. The AF won't force you to do a residency in a field you don't want.

4) Do y'all think I could serve overseas, in like Germany, if I requested it? I want to travel...

Very unlikely.

5) Will the pay be about equal if I planned on doing civilian primary care?

Roughly, after the initial service commitment was up, if you decided to stay on active duty and signed a multi year MSP contract.

6) How much will administration infringe on my ability to stay busy helping patients?

You'll probably have little trouble staying busy in primary care.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

1. Play less Street Fighter 2
2. Do more research on HPSP
3. ?????????
4. Profit

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

1. Play less Street Fighter 2

Capcom is now on Street Fighter 5...how time flies.

 

[Cooperd0g]

Hello, ... I am going to a state school ...Thank y'all for the consideration!

It looks like you already made a switch, but I will put this here for others to read:

Bolded and italicized for effect. Despite how many people "want to serve" the majority do it for the money despite all their claims. As such, this would be a big waste of the scholarship given the generally low cost of state schools. So you don't get the massive benefit of wiping out huge private school debt potential, but you still limit yourself vastly by the rigidity of the military. If you still want to join later you can do FAP or finish residency on your own and then join.

 

[pawprint]

I only ask logistical questions on this forum because I know that any opinion-based answers are going to come back full-negative responses. I have spent a ton of time at Portsmouth Naval Hospital and at Norfolk General and haven't met a single doctor who regretted doing HPSP (both who are currently in the military and out). Not a single one. Some joined for money reasons, some joined for other reasons. All are from residents to retired. By coming on this forum and asking for advice on if you should join, understand that most people who exist on forums are here because they have a negative view and want to warn others of their experiences. But it doesn't give credit to the vast amount of people who appreciate the program. I would suggest meeting with current military physicians and talking to them in person, it is what I did before I signed up for the program and it only encouraged me to do so.

Also, you're not an idiot for asking these questions. You can find all your answers already on this forum, but I didn't start to look into actually figuring out the logistics of the program until I had my acceptance in hand. None of it matters until you sign the dotted line.

 

[DeadCactus]

You haven't met a single doctor who is going to openly bitch about his life choices to a pre-med. There's a difference. In the grand scheme of things, this forum is negatively biased but it balances out the overly positive bias from recruiters and the public face of medicine you see out in the real world. You're an idiot if you discount the candid experience people have been gracious enough to share on this forum.

 

[Gastrapathy]

You haven't met a single doctor at NMCP who regrets HPSP. That's funny since that is the least happy of the major Navy MTFs. Flagship, Starship and ... well lets just say they crank through the patients at Portsmouth. Since you know so much about it, riddle me this. Where are all the mid-career physicians at NMCP? Several ROADsters and lots of O4s approaching the end but hardly any mid-term CDRs or junior CAPTs.

Look. I don't regret serving but I had a golden horseshoe lodged up my ass. I made it through the subspecialty crapshoot quickly, deployed when I wanted including a great greenside GMO billet and somewhat meaningful work in the sandbox (volunteer before voluntold but still better) and got to homestead at a MTF in a major city. Nothing to regret, really. However, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I saw the suck more than I experienced it but the green weenie comes for us all eventually.

Unrelated, but green weenie just reminded me, there are now Cards Against Humanity-style cards for service life. Could be fantastic. http://disgruntleddecks.com/.

 

[TheEarDoc]

You haven't met a single doctor at NMCP who regrets HPSP. That's funny since that is the least happy of the major Navy MTFs. Flagship, Starship and ... well lets just say they crank through the patients at Portsmouth. Since you know so much about it, riddle me this. Where are all the mid-career physicians at NMCP? Several ROADsters and lots of O4s approaching the end but hardly any mid-term CDRs or junior CAPTs.

Look. I don't regret serving but I had a golden horseshoe lodged up my ass. I made it through the subspecialty crapshoot quickly, deployed when I wanted including a great greenside GMO billet and somewhat meaningful work in the sandbox (volunteer before voluntold but still better) and got to homestead at a MTF in a major city. Nothing to regret, really. However, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I saw the suck more than I experienced it but the green weenie comes for us all eventually.

Unrelated, but green weenie just reminded me, there are now Cards Against Humanity-style cards for service life. Could be fantastic. http://disgruntleddecks.com/.

Yes I have friends at Portsmouth and it ain't all rainbows and sunshine for milmed there, but they aren't going to openly complain to someone they don't know. That's reserved for backyard bbq's and the bar.

After all I know now of the health scholarship program, I am so glad I never did it to go to med school. I regret not going to medical school because of the cost factor, but like many others I saw the sum of money I would owe and thought "there is no way I can ever pay that back!" and didn't take the spot. Now if I were 10-12 years younger again I would have taken the state school slot, got my degree, enjoyed some college life/med school life, then went Reserves for some loan repayment and embraced the suck that came along.

Now here I am with a good career in the VA (milmed light really but I can have 28% body fat and no deployments while enjoying the administrative bloat and lack of common sense from superiors) and joining the reserves for nothing except drill pay and a feeling of wanting to serve more than I am serving now in the VA.

As they say hindsight is 20/20. I just wish someone would have sat me down at some of these folks' age and had the real discussions I see on this forum on a daily basis giving the good, the bad, and often the ugly of milmed.

 

[WernickeDO]

I only ask logistical questions on this forum because I know that any opinion-based answers are going to come back full-negative responses. I have spent a ton of time at Portsmouth Naval Hospital and at Norfolk General and haven't met a single doctor who regretted doing HPSP (both who are currently in the military and out). Not a single one. Some joined for money reasons, some joined for other reasons. All are from residents to retired. By coming on this forum and asking for advice on if you should join, understand that most people who exist on forums are here because they have a negative view and want to warn others of their experiences. But it doesn't give credit to the vast amount of people who appreciate the program. I would suggest meeting with current military physicians and talking to them in person, it is what I did before I signed up for the program and it only encouraged me to do so.

Also, you're not an idiot for asking these questions. You can find all your answers already on this forum, but I didn't start to look into actually figuring out the logistics of the program until I had my acceptance in hand. None of it matters until you sign the dotted line.

An opinion based post from a military doc that is negative (or positive) should be taken for one person's experience and not discarded because it doesn't jive with what you want to hear.

Agree that (most) docs aren't going to vent their frustrations to a pre-med. You also have a critical qualifier in there...they are in a hospital. Come to GMO land where medical doctors are treating powerpoints and back pain and got rejected for residency and I will show you plenty of people who regret HPSP.

You are right that many of use come on this forum to complain about milmed, and there are many docs who truly enjoy milmed. The purpose of this forum is to answer questions, spread information, and provide catharsis. The sunshine and rainbows that we envision when we sign on the dotted line has a flip side, and the .mil is certainly not about to tell you about being moved from your family to a shi**y part of the country (or world) to fill a secretarial position. If you find a recurring theme of negativity, then perhaps that should tell you something about milmed and your potential role in it. Why is it better to talk with one military doc for their opinion when you have several dozen here who offer their own experiences and are all to willing to share?

When a pre-med starts a new post that shows that s/he have absolutely NO clue of the realities of milmed and that they are about to sign, you had better believe that causes a response. Because although there are a lot of salty dogs on this forum (myself included), for the most part we care about others and don't want people to make uninformed decisions.

 

[HighPriest]

Some people love milmed. When you're talking career guys or retirees, you'll have a bias towards being happy in the military. I'll bite my cynical tongue as to why that is. But as mentioned, you're not going to get the full story as an on-service premed or med student. Also, realize that while this site isn't exactly anonymous, it provides a suggestion of anonymity that encourages people to be more upfront about their experiences. And as WernickeDO said, most of us aren't here just to complain. Most of us, myself included, are really only interested in trying to prevent people from making mistakes. I've applied for HPSP. I know what it's like to be in that spot. Milmed already has enough cheerleaders.

 

[LSDiVinci]

I only ask logistical questions on this forum because I know that any opinion-based answers are going to come back full-negative responses. I have spent a ton of time at Portsmouth Naval Hospital and at Norfolk General and haven't met a single doctor who regretted doing HPSP (both who are currently in the military and out). Not a single one. Some joined for money reasons, some joined for other reasons. All are from residents to retired. By coming on this forum and asking for advice on if you should join, understand that most people who exist on forums are here because they have a negative view and want to warn others of their experiences. But it doesn't give credit to the vast amount of people who appreciate the program. I would suggest meeting with current military physicians and talking to them in person, it is what I did before I signed up for the program and it only encouraged me to do so.

Also, you're not an idiot for asking these questions. You can find all your answers already on this forum, but I didn't start to look into actually figuring out the logistics of the program until I had my acceptance in hand. None of it matters until you sign the dotted line.

I remember when I was pulling information to try to decide if HPSP was the best path for me, I came here and found a lot of negativity. People are allowed to be negative, of course, they're allowed to let off steam, but after so many feeds I came to the same realization that you posted. A lot of people that come out to post have not had positive experiences (at 8 years prior service, I can understand disgruntled servicemen and women). It's unfortunate because it really paints a scary picture of what I have to look forward to. I've often thought that the negativity that swirls around these feeds stems from a failure to adapt. The difficulty with military medicine is that not only are you a fresh graduate adapting to becoming a practicing physician, but then, unlike your civilian counterparts, you have the added stress and pressure of learning to adapt to the military rules, regulations, and lifestyle, which is a recipe for disgruntled forums.

OP, you have valid questions and navigating the military is a bit of a cluster**** as we would say. It is tough to get straight answers from any type of forum, but it's not a bad place to start, just make sure that you're getting advice from other people as well so that you can get a well rounded picture. I found that I got the most honest answers, both negative and positive, from military medicine attendings who have had the time to reflect back on their decision and whether or not the military hindered or helped their career. Also, it sounds like your recruiter has done you a huge disservice; he/she should have provided these answers for you in your first couple meetings and in no way should you be this close to signing a contract without having these answers. I recommend having a sit down with them and getting the answers you need; this is a big decision. Best of luck to you.

 

[psychbender]

You know, I'd like to think that the signal to noise ratio on this forum isn't all that bad. There are actually several of us who did not have bad experiences with mil med. I was picked up for my desired specialty without interruption, received good training (could have been better is some areas, but post-residency me would have slaughtered new grads from many civilian programs in other areas), and got my top pick of assignments available after residency. However, for many this is not the case. Even in the Army, I had residents that did GMO tours. I had a classmate that was sent to a ****ty BFE base, and volunteered for Afghanistan so as not have to spend as much time in that assignment. Many others just got the ****ty assignments, watched their skills in caring for complex patients rot away (unless able to moonlight), and are looking forward to leaving for civilian next year. If your view of military medicine is just from people at the big medical centers in nicer areas, you're going to get a very skewed perspective, as they are of course going to tell you how great it is. The same is true if you ask mostly retired or high-ranking doctors. The milmed that they joined and spent most if their career in is not the same milmed that we have now. This is why balancing those opinions with this forum is valuable. You would be foolish to discount what all of us experienced doctors are saying.

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[DeadCactus]

I don't think anyone would argue against this forum having a negative bias, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a vocal minority. Frankly I find it ridiculous to argue that people can't adapt to military life after adapting to medical school, internship, and residency. It's not like the forum is flooded with complaints about wearing a uniform. Even the frequent moves and time away from family are rarely the focus. The complaints that appear time and time again all relate to sacrificing your 20's to become a physician and then not being allowed to be physician. They're about skill atrophy, about cuts to CME, about not having clinically experienced superiors to help you develop, about need permission to moonlight when it's necessary to maintain clinical skills, etc. And every time someone tries to come discount this forum as overly negative it's a medical student. It's someone with absolutely no direct experience with what the reality means. "But all the military physicians I've talked to loved it!" There are people who legitimately enjoyed their time in milmed for the reasons psychbender pointed out. But there are many who had a really bad time and, again, no one complaints to trainees and applicants. Anyone in residency or beyond regularly saw people who frequently complain about going into medicine and choosing specialty X turn around and sing the praises of medicine and specialty X to applicants and junior trainees. Joining milmed is no different.

Long story short, I don't know why people insist on overplaying the negative bias here while completely disregarding the ridiculously positive bias of in person interaction.

 

[HighPriest]

Never found it to be a problem adapting either. It isn't hard to learn how to act like an officer. It's just hard to swallow a lot of the BS that is inherent to our system. I find adapting and learning to like the taste of $#!T to be two different things, not necessarily inclusive.